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Post by wingtol on Aug 6, 2015 20:41:00 GMT -6
Couple of things: First, sure there are slappies coaching college football. The OP specified elite college programs, though. Think Urban Meyer or Nick Saban have any bad coaches on staff? IMO, the #9 guy on a top college staff would rank no worse that #3 on even the best HS staff. Next, the idea that top college coaches couldn't adjust to different offenses is absurd. It's true that a lot of staffs couldn't but the top staffs have guys who have been around. Some have coached in HS and many have coached at lower levels. For example, OSU DL coach Larry Johnson was a HS coach for 19 years. I think they'd come up with something. Not saying they would have no clue I think it would be more of a culture shock thing especially if you were talking one game. Kind of like taking a nuclear scientist from Los Alamos and throwing them in the HS Physics lab and saying "Alright make nuclear energy!" I am sure they would figure it out but would take them a while to adjust. Also forgot to throw in the scout films you get looking like they were shot by someone going through withdrawal in the third row of bleachers who likes to follow the ball or zoom in on two guys for the whole play.
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Post by wingtol on Aug 6, 2015 16:01:13 GMT -6
I agree that that would be a good test, but all things equal as you suggest I would still give the advantaqe to the college guys. By and large they have worked their way through those high school situations. They also are working 50+ hours a week on football, all year round. They don't turn into wrestling coaches in the winter or teach five classes of algebra II in the morning. Coaches value reps in practice, I think most of those guys have seen plenty of reps in games, practices, clinics etc. I don't think the level would even be close in terms of numbers (HS staff vs College staff). Don't be so stary eyed when talking about college coaches. As others have said there are some guys out there that you would be shocked to see in action. Now I am sure most top tier college teams have pretty good coaches but there are a lot of guys who could easily slide from HS to College. You would also be surprised if you talk to college DCs in particular how hard they say it is to run a defense in HS due to all the different looks you see in a season. Spent some time with a local college DC and I was showing him some of the stuff we see and he was shaking his head saying how nuts it would be to defend all that in one season.
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Post by wingtol on Aug 6, 2015 13:15:09 GMT -6
Forget the elite high school staff, since let's face it that's about 1% of us anyways, I think it would be better to stick a major college staff at a small school and match them up with a good small school staff. See how those big time guys deal with like 35-40 kids on a team where about 15 actually touch the field and all the kids are basically going three ways with O/D/ST. Make sure the field had a press box about 20 feet high at max as well LOL. That I would like to see. Oh and make sure they have to play against a wing-t, double dive, wishbone, double wing, team or a scheme they haven't seen in decades! Now we're talking.
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Post by wingtol on Aug 6, 2015 8:48:21 GMT -6
Owe rarely bring them in on Saturday. Mainly because we play a lot of Monday JV games and at a small school that means about 15 varsity guys left. So Monday is a walk thru game plan session then film from the previous game. We also try and meet Sat morning as a staff to game plan so it does become a bit much if we had the team in as well. Plus I like to watch the game film once or twice before reviewing it with the team, not have my first viewing in team films.
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Post by wingtol on Aug 5, 2015 6:37:20 GMT -6
We only have weight room during June and a couple guys who live right by the school open it and run it. Being a bit farther away from school now I usually don't make it during June at all. I'm fine with that. I like to take advantage of summers off with my young kids, I always think of a line I read here " Remember your players won't be the one picking out your nursing home some day..." In July we start three nights a week work outs, basically practice without contact in shells, and it just so happens our annual family vacation is in July. I go without any hesitation what so ever. Once the season starts then I kick it into grinder mode. Just not worth it to work your self crazy epically when you have young kids. Enjoy them while you can. You can coach forever but your kids are only little once.
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Post by wingtol on Aug 4, 2015 18:25:14 GMT -6
Define contact. Different every where helps to know what the parameters are.
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Post by wingtol on Aug 3, 2015 10:36:38 GMT -6
First off as others have asked is this your only scout or,do you get film as well?
When I started coaching frosh ball we went out to scout all the time and some places didn't let us film. We had a form made either 4 or 6 boxes with D/D and hash then the five OL drawn in already. If you have other guys one guy would write, one would call out formation as best he could in our terms, then we would split it like you watch left side of OL you watch right side and I got the backs. Or one guy would watch OL, one had backfield, one had WR. Wasn't always perfect but it's better than nothing. Defense we split up basically the same with DL/LB/DB. If you're going alone I always tried to watch the OL first then figure everything else out after that. Get a program and try and just mark starters on the roster, easier than writing it down on your own.
If you can we always got there early and watched pre-game warm ups to see what they were going over. And get the cadence if you can, always seems to be something you can't get off film now. Take lots of pens or pencils, you can never have enough.
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Post by wingtol on Jul 29, 2015 11:52:22 GMT -6
I know people go on and on about this subject but in reality what choice do you have but to let them play and compete once OFFICAL practice starts. No where I know of that is able to make summer mandatory. Of course you need to reward kids who have been there and working with privelages that these kids who didn't show up don't get. I have coached at small schools for a while now and unfortunately the guys who are just flat out better know it real quick and can hold you hostage because if they show up for the mandatory stuff and aren't cancers and earn those positions what can you really do about it. Talent drops off real fast at small schools, you try and make a point by playing young kids who where there all summer it's gonna get ugly real quick sometimes, as others pointed out, to the point where those kids don't want to play side they got their asses kicked and now you have no team.
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Post by wingtol on Jul 28, 2015 9:08:06 GMT -6
Never underestimate the stupidity of parents. I think this is a different issue that a kid just missing or skipping. You need to explain to the kid and parent look he's missing the most important part of the season really this is your choice and he's going to be way behind when you get back. I just think it's hard to punish a kid if his parents are making him doing something like that. Now kids just skipping for dumb stuff or showing up when ever they want is a different story.
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Post by wingtol on Jul 28, 2015 6:24:08 GMT -6
HC resigned and we all left with him for new school.
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Post by wingtol on Jul 14, 2015 19:21:04 GMT -6
My question is who's gonna watch and make sure you don't excede the time limit?
Not that we put our guys through a meat grinder but 60 mins of contact a week seems a bit short if it includes everything done with out a bag.
Where are all the studies on guys who play 2-3-4 years of HS ball and are perfectly fine? That's basically 90% of guys who have played football in their lives but everyone wants to focus on that small percentage who play past HS. More people buying into the concussion hysteria and trying to legislate the game out of existence.
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Post by wingtol on Jul 10, 2015 13:20:48 GMT -6
Don't know if this is common or not but a friend of mine works on a staff where the head coach (special teams coord.) and the OC as well as dc are the only coaches that meet on Sunday. Saturday morning they all come in and meet until 1:00 to game plan and position coaches give input. Thoughts on that model? This program doesn't bring their kids in on weekends. We are kind of like that, don't bring the kids in on the weekends for the most part. We watch film on Monday since those are JV games and we end up with maybe 20 kids for practice Monday. Coaches meet Sat morning for game film, scout film, etc. usually done by 12-1. That's it for us on weekends. We don't get crazy with our game plans being a wing-t team we pretty much try and figure out how they will line up against us and how we will block our stuff vs it. As the DC I take care of any adjustments for the week which we try not to get too crazy with week to week.
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Post by wingtol on Jun 23, 2015 19:29:59 GMT -6
Food after scrimmages is pretty standard. Never been feed after an away game.
Never had food in the box. Coffee a couple times. Once it actually helped me shut up some smart ass parents who were right below the box at an away game. I was saying trap is there run trap. Guys heard me and yelled "watch the trap!!!" I looked out the window and said in general " I just got a new cup of coffee and get kind of excited up here so I appologize if it falls out the window on you guys in advance". They didn't yell out any plays the rest of the night.
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Post by wingtol on Jun 17, 2015 6:49:44 GMT -6
Jv for us idealy is 9/10 graders. Occasionally a Jr. or two who aren't very good and even in rare cases a Sr. who would get killed in a varsity game. We are a small school and some times struggle to fill out the Jv team as do others in our region. We had to pull the plug on a few jv games this year due to our numbers or the other teams numbers. We try our best to have a Jv team every year as it is critical to get them game experience. As far as I know there is no rule on how many qtrs a kid can play in a week.
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Post by wingtol on Jun 11, 2015 6:21:49 GMT -6
We are broken into districts in PA. We have two regions/leagues in our district for our class. Both have 8 teams so we end up with 3 Indy games now.
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Post by wingtol on Jun 8, 2015 11:35:44 GMT -6
I never felt the need to "keep up with the Joneses." I had enough confidence in myself to devise a program that would enable us to compete to the best of our abilities year-in and out while enjoying it and maintaining our enthusiasm without worrying about what opponents were doing. Over the years we consistently beat schools with Power Lifting teams, 6 AM Off-Season workouts, did five days a week, multiple camps, and several 7-on-7 leagues and-or tournaments in the Summer. If you're doing so much you're running kids off, kicking them off because they aren't there 24/7/365, burning them out by the end of the season, losing good coaches because they can't tolerate all the time you're demanding - you're not keeping up with anybody, you're beating yourself. Amen. We do 3 nights a week in July in shells since we are allowed to now by our state association, and they were even nice enough to tack on a 5 day heat acclimization peroid that is mandatory in the non-mandatory part of the fall sports season which is another post all together, which we basically run as in-season practices. Sometimes I feel that is too much as it is. Sure we get a lot of our stuff installed and reped and condition but it never fails the minute the pads go on and the hitting starts it's like we didn't do anything all summer any ways!!!! I am really starting to think more is less the longer I do this.
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Post by wingtol on Jun 5, 2015 8:41:06 GMT -6
I really do not think it is hard at all to get people or teams to compete. Of course there are exceptions. Get them as strong and fast as they can be. And in shape. Have sound schemes. Make sure the players know what they are doing - execution. Make sure they know how to do it - fundamentals. If all that competition stuff like tug of war and all works for you, great. I just think most players are competitive or they wouldn't be players. Not knocking it or saying you shouldn't do it, or there isn't a place for it, but I am positive that the 4 things listed above are WAY more important. Great way to say it. Last two schools we have been at including our current school were not real good when we took over. It wasn't a competetive problem with the kids, hell they were hungry to win, I am sure if we lined them up and did races or tug of war or something they would had age been all in to it working hard. It was more of they had no confidence in what they were doing on the field and did know how they were supposed to do it! Aka no sound schemes and not sound fundamentals once those were I place they had more confidence and were able to compete better on the field. We also do a great character building program that ties in with having confidence in what you are doing. Sure it's good to do competetive type stuff with the team to switch it up every now and then but I would rather stress working hard, believing in what we do, and believing in how we do it.
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Post by wingtol on Jun 2, 2015 12:38:10 GMT -6
If they are taking my son away in an ambulance I am going with him. It's a game for Christ sakes wouldn't even be a second thought for me. Now when I think ambulance I am thinking they are stretching the kid off the field not like something where they get to the sidelines and the trainer/dr looks then they go.
I always like to remember a saying I heard a long time ago "Your former players aren't going to be making the decision one day on which nursing home to put you but your kids are..."
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Post by wingtol on Jun 1, 2015 14:30:48 GMT -6
Being a small school we really don't have a depth chart per say. We are kind of in the situation where sure there is a second string but that doesn't mean they are the back ups at a position. Like if the RT gets hurt then maybe our LT comes over and the Center goes to Guard and the Guard goes to LT etc... That's not just a small school thing. We're a big school but there's a difference between our paper depth chart and what happens in the real world. We had a #2 OL on the depth chart and they got practice reps but if there was an injury in-game that guy who was #2 on the depth chart is going in. We were really thin there last year, with only two guys who I trusted with extended playing time and both were guards. When our LT got hurt, we had to sub in a guard, move the starting guard to center, and move the center to LT. A few years ago I heard an NFL coach speak at a clinic and he remarked that in some ways NFL coaches have more in common with HS coaches than with D.1 college coaches. One reason was roster size and depth and I think that our situation is an example of that. grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-college-football-five-step-offensive-line-rebuilding-guide/Good article that talks about some of the same kind of stuff
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Post by wingtol on Jun 1, 2015 12:14:45 GMT -6
Being a small school we really don't have a depth chart per say. We are kind of in the situation where sure there is a second string but that doesn't mean they are the back ups at a position. Like if the RT gets hurt then maybe our LT comes over and the Center goes to Guard and the Guard goes to LT etc...
With that being said our HC is the OC I am the DC, HC takes care of the RB's he needs to sub or grabs the WR he wants in there if we throw. I do the OL subs. So no problem there. As the DC I let our DL coach, who is a former HC/OC/DC veteran guy sub freely. All other position subs go through me no one has free reign to just send a player into the game with out the HC or myself giving the thumbs up. We also have been together for a long time as a staff so everyone knows how it works and their are no egos or hurt feelings in these situations. On a side note really blessed to have the staff we do overall as sometimes the situations that come up on here blow my mind LOL
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Post by wingtol on May 29, 2015 6:21:56 GMT -6
Speaking to the OL guys here, if you don't teach scheme in Indy do you have other times just to teach that? I guess it can depend on what you run but the way we are set up after Indy we are into inside run or 7-7 or team and I know once we hit those periods the OL better know what's goin on.
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Post by wingtol on May 28, 2015 7:57:18 GMT -6
I have to disagree a bit when it's said Indy is not scheme time. With the OL you have to cover scheme with your guys when you have them, no other group works as a unit like the OL and I feel it's imparative to use some of Indy to cover who we are blocking along with the how. It's probably also why if you ask any OL how much Indy they want they say as much as I can get, which is never enough!
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Post by wingtol on May 27, 2015 6:19:50 GMT -6
Our HC always lets the assistants talk at the end of practice. I usually say something as the DC/OL/Ast HC(whatever that means) then we have another veteran coach who usually speaks and then HC finishes up. We have a great staff that has been together for a long time and everyone knows the message and their role. HC is a good friend and sometimes after we are done addressing the team he just says "They said it all nothing more to add". Again we have a great staff and have been friends for years before we started coaching so it's a pretty unique situation, a very good one at that!
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Post by wingtol on May 22, 2015 6:01:13 GMT -6
What if you run the wing-t, average 5 passes a game, and wear a visor (just at practice never at a game)? Is that ok or should I lose the visor so my coachhuey membership card isn't revoked? NO!! No visors...that's how it starts...and before long you forget your shoes and you're wearing flip flops...and before you know it you'll be on RuPaul's Drag Race talking about "buck sweep" and "waggle" but those will no longer be football terms. It's just safer if you just steer clear of it all together. Damn. What about neon colored sneakers and/or pastel colored socks those seem to be cool now days as well...
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Post by wingtol on May 21, 2015 6:47:15 GMT -6
Guys who worry about us listening to their plays probably think that we give a phuk about winning the 7-on-7. When in reality we don't even give a phuk what they think at all anyway. I'm going to get me a visor and see if it makes me feel like I'm the smarterest coach in the world too. What if you run the wing-t, average 5 passes a game, and wear a visor (just at practice never at a game)? Is that ok or should I lose the visor so my coachhuey membership card isn't revoked?
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Post by wingtol on May 19, 2015 6:39:00 GMT -6
We don't not have an official spring ball time here but have done some spring activities with the team to get out and run around etc. We do not do it any more since we can have work outs in shells in the summer, so we have 3 workouts a night in July leading up to our first day of full pads. I feel this is a lot more beneficial than a spring ball time. So since we don't have spring ball a question to those that do, is it really that much of a benefit to have the kids for 8-10 practices in pads then hang em up for 2-3 months?
I am just sitting here going back and forth over the whole issue and was just wondering is it that much of a gauge for you to have just a few full pad work outs then nothing for several months? I feel like your just getting rolling after the first two weeks of practice in the fall so in the long run does the spring really pay off for you?
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Post by wingtol on May 16, 2015 7:33:58 GMT -6
First off having coached at small schools for awhile be careful because that roster can get real small real quick on you, we say we'll take any swinging d**k we can get on the field!
Are all your spring sports done during spring football? If not cant see how you can make it mandatory if a kid is in season with another sport.
Also we tend to forget most of the time none of our players, wether you think it or not, take the game as serious as we do. Doesn't mean they won't come out and bust their asses when the time comes so sometimes in the offseason you have to work around stuff epically at small schools. Like I said don't push kids away in small schools, it will come back to haunt you real quick.
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Post by wingtol on May 15, 2015 18:35:06 GMT -6
No. That is called tendencies. No that is called listening to words. Do you really think that other defenses didn't pick up on tendencies based on alignment of the back in the gun? That colleges even all the way back in 2010 didn't look at that? LOL Read more: coachhuey.com/thread/69082/cheating-football#ixzz3aFWEGCXUNo I know colleges do that.. Our DC has 10 years of college coaching experience from Division II, III and FCS Level.. He is the one that came up with it... I get that.. The difference between us and 99% of other high school teams is we check EVERYTHING with the LBER.. He makes the calls and we go.. Out lbers have checks weekly off of formations, personnel, etc... Most high schools do not do this... Other teams may or may not have picked up on it (Considering we played them in the regional finals Thanksgiving weekend it looked like not too many did pick up on it)... We were able to win by the QBs feet... Alignment of back confirmed.. Run read our OLBER blitzed and we were cover 0... 7 man box against spread.. Pass lbers dropped and safeties play cover 4.. Was a HUGE Again others would consider that unethical... We call that "scouting"
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Post by wingtol on May 14, 2015 7:39:34 GMT -6
What would your role be with in the program? I just am wondering because I have never really heard of this at a HS level. I would be worried about how receptive the coaches would be to having a consultant around ie who the hell is this guy and why is he telling us what to do? stuff like that.
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Post by wingtol on May 11, 2015 19:14:20 GMT -6
If I ever find myself on a staff worried about dominating summer 7-7 I give permission to any of my former linemen to shoot me in the head.
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