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Post by buckeye7525 on Jul 14, 2015 14:51:21 GMT -6
I know there has been some talk from the various state governing bodies about practice limitations being handed down and yesterday in Ohio we got ours.
I know there are other Ohio coaches on the board as well as well as others who may have experience with restrictions and am curious how to proceed with the above guidelines.
Anyway, here are the new rules in Ohio.
The following regulations apply to individual student-athletes. Position groups, etc., can alternate contact during the week to adhere to the regulations. Also, contact with soft equipment such as bags, shields, sleds, etc., does not count toward full contact limitations:
1. Limit full contact on consecutive days.
2. A student-athlete is limited to 30 minutes of full contact in practice per day.
3. A student-athlete is limited to 60 minutes of full contact in practice per week.
4. A student-athlete can be involved in full contact in a maximum of two practices in a seven-day span.
When more than one practice takes place in a day, full contact is permitted only during one of the practices. With the importance of recovery time to help minimize concussion risks, consideration should also be given to the timing of full contact during the next day (i.e. if full contact occurs during session 2 of two-a-days, there should not be full contact in session 1 of two-a-days the following day).
My understanding of what "full contact" means will be to include "live contact and thud" which come from the USA Football definitions (listed below):
1. Air = Players run a drill unopposed without contact.
2. Bags = Drill is run against a bag or other soft-contact surface.
3. Control = Drill is run at an assigned speed until the moment of contact. One player is designated by the coach ahead of time as the pre-determined winner. Contact remains above the waist and players stay on their feet.
4. Thud = Drill is run at competitive speed through the moment of contact with no predetermined winner. Contact remains above the waist, players stay on their feet and a quick whistle ends the drill.
5. Live Action = Drill is run in gamelike conditions and is the only time that players are taken to the ground.
So with that said, if you were to do 15m of team offense in a practice and 15m of team defense in a practice that would shoot your 30m of full contact for the day, correct? You would be unable to do an Inside Run/Blitz Pickup session? Also your OL/DL would not be able to do a 1 on 1 pass rush drill in their Indy setting? Or would you OL be able to even work a double team drill against themselves?
Really interested to hear other's takes on this and what your plan of attack is (or has been if you have been in a state that has had those types of rules). I'm sure by October this won't be something I'm even thinking about, but right now I'm perplexed on how everything will work out. It seems on the surface that for a 1 platoon team that has tried to do about 50m of O & D every practice that our schedules will have to drastically change.
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Post by fballcoachg on Jul 14, 2015 16:29:09 GMT -6
The timing of it is classic...obviously it will be adapted but they could have easily passed this earlier in the year. The OL/DL are the biggest question mark.
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Post by CoachM58 on Jul 14, 2015 17:00:32 GMT -6
We got ours in Kentucky not too long ago. Pretty similar to the Ohio rules.
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Post by freezeoption on Jul 14, 2015 17:20:55 GMT -6
There has been talk about this in Missouri, I bet we will see something pretty close to it. I like how they put that out right before the season instead of the winter.
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Post by groundchuck on Jul 14, 2015 17:28:11 GMT -6
Looks like Ohio copied Minnesota. But at least your league didn't cut a week of practice out this year too.
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Post by coachweav88 on Jul 14, 2015 17:33:43 GMT -6
I'm still thinking through the rules myself. does the USA football "live contact" equate to ohsaa's "full contact"? If so, then "thud" wouldn't count against that right? We really only go live in team time, and we could easily make that thud.
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Post by coachweav88 on Jul 14, 2015 18:10:25 GMT -6
I just got an email from someone at the OHSAA and buckeye7525, you are correct. Both "thud" and "live action" are included in the "full contact" mandate |
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Post by buckeye7525 on Jul 14, 2015 18:19:43 GMT -6
Exactly, the fact that thud/live are considered the same now really makes we wonder how you'll handle any of the Indy/Group work with OL/DL/LB.
A lot of their work almost has to be against another body for them to get something out of it.
Now, does it become allowable if there is a "winner" decided for all of these?
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Post by coachdawhip on Jul 14, 2015 18:21:31 GMT -6
Exactly, the fact that thud/live are considered the same now really makes we wonder how you'll handle any of the Indy/Group work with OL/DL/LB. A lot of their work almost has to be against another body for them to get something out of it. Now, does it become allowable if there is a "winner" decided for all of these? Yes you must decide the winner b4 you do it. For it to be called control. We wont even wear pads on Monday no need 2. |
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Post by buckeye7525 on Jul 14, 2015 18:42:23 GMT -6
coachdawhipSo if my OL are working a double team drill vs bodies and it's a drill that the OL are going to win and the DL we use are going to provide firm resistance but not trying to defeat the block then it can be labeled as control, regardless of speed being used?
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Post by coachdawhip on Jul 14, 2015 18:53:49 GMT -6
Yes, you are assigning a speed (75 to 90%).
We do a zone key drill, where we have one QB run zone read and the other throw a key, it is 11 on 11, but defense is just in the way. we will catch the screen and run 20 yards and run the zone. That is control.
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Post by coachweav88 on Jul 14, 2015 19:09:15 GMT -6
If you use a hand shield for the double team drill, it definitely doesn't count towards your "full contact"
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Post by coachdawhip on Jul 14, 2015 19:20:48 GMT -6
If you use a hand shield for the double team drill, it definitely doesn't count towards your "full contact" Only if you have no predetermined winner and they are going to the ground! It is control, offense is going to take the guy downfield a couple of steps, doing the drill at 75% and not going to the ground. Control. |
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Post by wingtol on Jul 14, 2015 19:21:04 GMT -6
My question is who's gonna watch and make sure you don't excede the time limit?
Not that we put our guys through a meat grinder but 60 mins of contact a week seems a bit short if it includes everything done with out a bag.
Where are all the studies on guys who play 2-3-4 years of HS ball and are perfectly fine? That's basically 90% of guys who have played football in their lives but everyone wants to focus on that small percentage who play past HS. More people buying into the concussion hysteria and trying to legislate the game out of existence.
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Post by macdiiddy on Jul 15, 2015 0:11:43 GMT -6
I know i'm preaching to the choir here, but at what point in a players career are they suppose to learn how how to tackle and block if they are regulating it all out of practice.
Some regulation is fine, there are some bad apples everywhere. But with all this rush to make rules and safety, safety, safety; yet they are not allowed to practice the skills needed to be safe.
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Post by coachtua on Jul 15, 2015 0:34:19 GMT -6
Pussification of America...
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Post by John Knight on Jul 15, 2015 5:49:17 GMT -6
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Post by jlenwood on Jul 15, 2015 7:41:10 GMT -6
I read this forward and back yesterday when we got it, and one thing I think is going to come up is that when they say you can only have contact at 1 period of 2 a days, they don't set a time limit on that. Also, the time limits are only under the heading of "In season after first game" regulations, so any pre-season practices could potentially be 90 straight minutes of tackling if you so desired and only have 1 session. So I can see someone having their 2 a day practices structured so there is no appearant break in the practice and away you go.
Going by the NFHS defintions of what full contact is, I really think this should have been at a minimum of 45 minutes per practice in order to take into cconsideration scenarios such as OL vs DL, Inside run and so on. We are a small squad single platoon team, so we had already planned on limiting contact in as many areas as we could, but 60 minutes a week is pretty slim in my opinion.
One other area of concern to me, when we have run thud in the past (which I don't consider full contact) you always have that one knucklehead who will take somebody to the ground. So now does that one instance constitute making that entire session a full contact session. I know some of this may be splitting hairs, but with some grey areas I see some programs taking advantage of these grey areas to create a competitive advantage....maybe a stretch but you never know.
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Post by mattman2 on Jul 15, 2015 19:11:51 GMT -6
An average play is about 10 seconds. You only count the time they are going live. Not the time they are jogging back to the huddle or getting coached up between plays. That equates to 360 plays per week.
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Post by John Knight on Jul 15, 2015 19:35:40 GMT -6
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Post by jlenwood on Jul 15, 2015 21:21:19 GMT -6
An average play is about 10 seconds. You only count the time they are going live. Not the time they are jogging back to the huddle or getting coached up between plays. That equates to 360 plays per week. Who the f*** you gonna put in charge of keeping track of all these reps? Are we to get those hand held pitch count things to keep track for each kid. I am all for the safety, and we don't go full contact as much as we would like due to low numbers, but at some point the regulation of every freakin' thing under the sun has got to stop. |
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jaydub66
Sophomore Member
Varsity D-Line Coach
Posts: 223 
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Post by jaydub66 on Jul 16, 2015 0:40:56 GMT -6
In NJ, it's 90 minutes a week, no more than 30 a practice. There isn't any consecutive day stuff.
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Post by buckeye7525 on Jul 16, 2015 5:08:00 GMT -6
In NJ, it's 90 minutes a week, no more than 30 a practice. There isn't any consecutive day stuff. Coach, can you share how you structure your practices to be in compliance with this rule? |
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Post by buckeye7525 on Jul 16, 2015 5:09:52 GMT -6
An average play is about 10 seconds. You only count the time they are going live. Not the time they are jogging back to the huddle or getting coached up between plays. That equates to 360 plays per week. Coach, where did you see you only count the live rep time? Or is that your own personal interpretation? |
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Post by buckeye7525 on Jul 16, 2015 5:12:05 GMT -6
If you use a hand shield for the double team drill, it definitely doesn't count towards your "full contact" Only if you have no predetermined winner and they are going to the ground! It is control, offense is going to take the guy downfield a couple of steps, doing the drill at 75% and not going to the ground. Control. Coach, according to the email we got in Ohio any time we use any sort of bags/shields it doesn't count against the contact time regardless of offensive speed. |
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Post by buckeye7525 on Jul 16, 2015 5:15:12 GMT -6
An average play is about 10 seconds. You only count the time they are going live. Not the time they are jogging back to the huddle or getting coached up between plays. That equates to 360 plays per week. Who the f*** you gonna put in charge of keeping track of all these reps? Are we to get those hand held pitch count things to keep track for each kid. I am all for the safety, and we don't go full contact as much as we would like due to low numbers, but at some point the regulation of every freakin' thing under the sun has got to stop. I think if you are able to follow this interpretation of the rule then you would never even need to worry about counting time. 30m of actually contact time (according to this view) would almost never be achieved. If you wanted to count, just look at how many plays you ran and multiply it out by 8-10seconds. |
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Post by jlenwood on Jul 16, 2015 6:54:04 GMT -6
Who the f*** you gonna put in charge of keeping track of all these reps? Are we to get those hand held pitch count things to keep track for each kid. I am all for the safety, and we don't go full contact as much as we would like due to low numbers, but at some point the regulation of every freakin' thing under the sun has got to stop. I think if you are able to follow this interpretation of the rule then you would never even need to worry about counting time. 30m of actually contact time (according to this view) would almost never be achieved. If you wanted to count, just look at how many plays you ran and multiply it out by 8-10seconds. My point is that this is another OHSAA rule that has been put out with enough vague areas within it to create confusion and huge holes that some will use as a competitive advantage. Like most rules/regulations that come from on high, they are counting on each team to self police and adhere to the rule, as an example we know how well everyone in Ohio adheres to the 10 day rule, right!? I think they would be better served to put time limits on practice and camps. Say the total time you can practice within a week would be pre-season 15 hours and after first game 8 hours, or something along those lines. Or limit the amount of time a player can be in pads, whatever the case or example. If you do this, than there is less chance of "grey" areas of the rule being exploited. I know you would be back to self policing, so that aspect will never go away, but at least it would force coaches to have a plan in place to fit within a very specific guideline, not something that can be interpreted as "How many seconds of actual contact during a timed period etc. etc. etc." |
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Post by John Knight on Jul 16, 2015 7:22:24 GMT -6
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jaydub66
Sophomore Member
Varsity D-Line Coach
Posts: 223
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Post by jaydub66 on Jul 16, 2015 23:23:10 GMT -6
In NJ, it's 90 minutes a week, no more than 30 a practice. There isn't any consecutive day stuff. Coach, can you share how you structure your practices to be in compliance with this rule? I haven't fully figured out what I want to do but I'm thinking Monday/Tuesday have 0 contact. Only thudding in Indy time, when we go to team, have the scout team have shields and have the Defense or Offense worry about their assignments for the play and technique like hand placement and footwork Wednesday/Thursday continue with thud in indy time. Save full contact for team. Friday I may switch it up and have full in indy time and go back to shields in team. I may switch it with Wednesday. I'm a freshmen head coach so we start practice in August. The varsity has been saving contact for team time which is probably the best thing to do. Spend indy/group time to install new stuff and review technique. Team time is to simulate when they use that technique or play |
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Post by CoachM58 on Jul 16, 2015 23:39:54 GMT -6
Our state organization has put restrictions upon the number of quarters an athlete plays (including overtime). As of this year, our kids are limited to 8 quarters of football a week. Meaning If I have a Freshmen who plays JV and Varsity, he couldn't play on the Freshmen team. Not to mention if we go to OT on Friday night. I'm definitely not a fan of this.
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