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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 28, 2016 7:14:18 GMT -6
I've been considering some different career paths. Being in my mid-40's I may be "behind the power curve" on this idea...
But, I wanted insight to what other coaches thought about the profession of an NFL scout.
I have two wishes for responses, if you please:
1) Are there classes; certifications; schools, etc. that you need to attend to become certified as a Scout?
2) What do you think or know about the profession as a whole? Poor job security? Demanding travel schedule?
I worked a camp years ago with a guy who was a Scout for the Colts. He was pretty arrogant, and he named-dropped like nobody you've ever seen, but he seemed pretty happy in what he was doing.
Any specific details/experiences are appreciated.
*I did do a quick google search and checked out The Scouting Academy. I just don't know if it's worth $750.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 28, 2016 6:46:24 GMT -6
I would just wave my arm in the air like an umpire signaling for a home run. They knew to just start taking laps around the field.
Many times I would forget he was still there and a coach or player would ask me if I wanted them to stop.
Whether you're injured or not, it's a very demoralizing feeling when you're missing out on practice. It was especially effective when a top player was treated in the same manner. It usually fixed the problem quickly.
However, I always had one rule. If a player texted me before he was late, regardless of the reason, I ALWAYS excused it. We want kids to learn accountability, and I looked at a text prior to the infraction as showing such accountability.
We had a catch phrase: Reasons happen beforehand, excuses happen after.
Sometimes it's a lazy or unorganized parent or circumstances beyond the players control. When he's running on to the field, I'd check my phone. If I saw it, he stretches and jumps in. If no text, I give him the signal and move on.
Also, the tardiness problem usually became a minor issue once school started.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 13, 2016 8:13:08 GMT -6
We went 2hr. 15min. at the most. Most days 90 min. The kids liked it as they were more fresh from day to day.
The initial difficulty that I faced was getting the coaches to coach faster. The first couple of weeks, when the whistle blew to change periods, they would look up and sometimes give me a 'WTF' look. I would tell them in meetings to coach more efficiently. They adjusted over time.
I would try to help them by giving them time updates so they knew how to pace the segment. I'm always calling out "5 minutes!" and "1 minute!" updates so they know to get those last few reps in and not be shocked when the time is up.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 12, 2016 6:04:27 GMT -6
honestly, that's one of the hardest things in coaching AND in human behavior..the tendency to to find the easiest way. if you find a cure you will be rich This. We had a group some years back that was exactly the same way. We actually did Oklahoma on the game field to stimulate them to no avail. Do you have game goals? We do for every game and they change depending on what we need to win. Heard Bobby Bowden say why would you have the same goals for the #1 team that you had for BF U? Therefore, if I were you I would establish early goals (score on 1st possession, stop opponent on their 1st possession, create a turnover in the 1st quarter, 0 negative runs in the 1st quarter, whatever). We give the entire group stickers for achieving one of our game goals. I wish we had done this back then... Sorry Coach, I didn't read your post before I wrote mine. We do similar things. Your ideas are good ones. Specific and measurable.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 11, 2016 20:19:27 GMT -6
If you're referring to just game play, I had the same trouble with a few different teams.
One of the tactics that I used, was to have them play little games within the big game.
We tried to set goals (rewarded with helmet stickers) to keep them focused on starting hot.
e.g. strive for at least 3 three and outs during the first quarter and zero missed tackles.
Offense has to put together at least 2 drives putting you in the red zone, or goal line, or whatever.
I can't even think of everything we used to do, just throwing ideas out there, but consider tailoring some things to keep their focus at the very beginning of the game.
They strike me as a confident bunch of kids who can see the end game, and don't mind giving you a heart attack in the mean time. I would guess that they have yet to understand the importance of playing four solid quarters (again, I've been there). They are good now, but will loose against the top tier teams unless they learn to dominate for 48 min.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 5, 2016 11:40:04 GMT -6
An earthquake AND a hurricane?! Where the heck do you coach? And why? I'll take four seasons including some snow over that. That was the year that I didn't coach. Earthquakes don't happen much in Virginia but there was one that year. Hurricanes do happen and they do suck. MD. Not far from fantom. It was crazy. The proximity of two natural events within such a close period of time was tough. Without power for days on end. I want to say that we only practiced like once or twice that week as well.
Both teams' uniforms were covered from top to bottom in guck. You could barely make out numbers or tell which team was which.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 5, 2016 9:20:08 GMT -6
Just thought of another one...
Back in 2011, we had both an earthquake and a hurricane in the span of about a month. The weather was horrible. As you can imagine, after a few games, our natural turf field was a quagmire.
We had just come off a championship the previous season and we were playing a perennial losing team.
Neither team could move the ball, and our opponents were pumped up as we only had a 6-0 lead late in the game. They were playing with a lot of confidence and simply out playing us.
They go down and score with about five minutes in the game. They make their XP and go bonkers.
Now up 7-6, we're doing all we can to score, but are still coming up short. They are playing us well and the poor field conditions are not helping us at all.
With about 2 minutes left in the game, we're on their 40 yd. line, facing a 4th down, and I elect to punt. Everybody thought I was nuts, but my thought was that if we can pin them deep, use our one timeout wisely, we might get the ball in decent enough field position to just chuck it in the end zone a few times, as nothing else was working.
We pin them inside their 10. They run a couple bad plays trying to run the clock down, but they actually loose yards and find themselves on their own 2 yd line.
We still have our timeout. It gets to 3rd down and they take a knee on the 1. They didn't want to loose anymore yardage, but they must have forgot that we still had a timeout. We call timeout and there is about 7 seconds on the clock.
After the timeout, it's 4th down and they line up to punt the ball. I guess they figured they couldn't afford to back up, so punt it off, and by time we returned it, they would tackle us the game would be over.
When they line up to punt, the snapper snaps the ball (you guessed it) over the punters head. The ball actually bounces off of the field goal post.
We win on a safety 8-7. One of the damndest things I had ever seen.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 4, 2016 12:50:04 GMT -6
We were down 21-0 with 8:24 left in the 4th vs. our top rival. Small school-purple (1100 students) vs Big school-red (2k students).
We score 28 pts. in a less than 9 minutes. * they don't show everything, but the last FG @3:55 was because they went 3 & out and we were able get back into FG position.
@3:55 is why you teach your players to never give up and play until you hear the whistle; the ball was still live.
It was pandemonium.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 2, 2016 11:36:25 GMT -6
coachjo14 never ceases to amaze me how some threads can take a left turn, but you hit the nail on the head. Time was an absolute factor in how the situation was dealt with. In regard to the responses, I will chalk it up to the fact that no one, other than myself, was there, and the intensity of the moment may not be truly appreciated or fully understood in a short online post. We worked it out and the young man ended up making the All-State team.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 1, 2016 13:36:01 GMT -6
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 1, 2016 11:18:24 GMT -6
Very detailed. Well written. Good stuff Coach.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 1, 2016 11:14:01 GMT -6
Now you're splitting hairs. At that point in time, given the circumstances, I didn't have time to play Dr. Phil.
Emotion, especially when displayed negatively, can be interpreted as disrespect and the differentiation is too minimal to separate.
Leadership is all about splitting hairs. You didn't see him throw the helmet? It wasn't in your face? Didn't happen. I learned a long time ago that I don't want to see and hear everything around me especially during games. Whether I saw his actions or not is irrelevant. It was enough to prompt me to act.
If he openly disrespects me, and I put him back in the game, then that tells the team that I'm willing to ignore certain things in order to win a game. What positive life lesson is that teaching a kid? That behavior also has the potential to create a domino effect. Any number of other players say to themselves, 'well if he can do that, so can I.' Not a trend I'm willing to accept.
On the other hand, if I try to diffuse a situation, and it continues to grow, the player has to understand there are consequences for his actions. He learned that lesson, which is more important to me than a game.
When he yelled at me, I interpreted that as emotion. When a helmet in bounced off the ground, I interpret that as disrespect.
Most coaches understand that you don't want to hear everything players say in the huddle, in the locker room, or every time they are in the corn fields drinking beer. But, there are also times when certain actions are more important than the final score. This was one of those times.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 1, 2016 10:30:10 GMT -6
A few years ago, we had some serious heat index's to deal with. One year we tried to go early and late. The schedule was something like 8-10am and 6-8pm. It worked out ok.
The next year, same heat issues, but we went to one "time frame" with a break in between. It was something like 5-6:30, 30 min break, and then 7-8:30.
We had to be very efficient with our time, but the kids were fresh, we filmed practice segments and had pre-practice meetings to coach some stuff up.
Same mindset as you, I didn't see the need to go twice a day. We cut back on time and got better.
However, I had an older group, leadership, etc. In other words, some of the intangibles were in place that made the decision easier.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 1, 2016 10:20:53 GMT -6
It's just not in my nature to ignore open disrespect. I think what I think about most is what I could have said to him to quell the situation in order to prevent him from getting more mad or continuing to harbor that anger.
Given the situation, it was intense on the sidelines, as you can imagine. In my haste to get back to the game, I dismissed how angry he actually was instead of calming him down and letting him know how important he was to us at that particular moment time.
We might have lost the game anyway because they were just that good.
Disrespect or emotion? Now you're splitting hairs. At that point in time, given the circumstances, I didn't have time to play Dr. Phil.
Emotion, especially when displayed negatively, can be interpreted as disrespect and the differentiation is too minimal to separate.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 1, 2016 10:17:11 GMT -6
shocktroop34 I support your decision 100%. Hindsight is 20/20 and you're right it's possible you might have been able to calm the kid down and keep him in the mix or it could have been like a situation I had once as a young head coach. I tried to reel a kid back in and he was just going crazy. I didn't have time to deal with it right then as I needed to get a kick team ready and then put my defense on the field. I was also getting frustrated with him and in the heat of the moment was about to pop off on him. So I said "Son we will talk about all of that later, but I have to turn you over to coach X right now". Coach X tries to calm the kid down and the kid is just going crazy. Eventually coach X lost his cool and got the kid straight. Nothing too crazy, but enough that parents from the kid's "group" didn't like this "newcomer from another group" treating their son like that. I had to fight tooth and nail to keep his job. Wildest thing another coach from "their group" blew up on a kid from "outside of their group" and was costing us penalties and almost got me tossed for going off on a referee after already taking a penalty. The "group" had no problem with this. I have always been pretty good about reeling kids back in, but sometimes they are just "on one" and can't be reached in the moment. One thing to keep in mind is the good of the kid can overtake what is good for the KIDS if we allow it to. I've worked with a lot of kids who have in the heat of a "moment" tried their best to get a coach fired. LOL Wow Coach...that's a lot of "groups" to manage. lol.
I don't want to hijack the thread into player behavior, but player behavior was a part of the circumstances. The loss itself was tough because of the opportunity to beat a team that were literally 50:1 favorites.
Sounds like we've both learned from our days as young bucks.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 1, 2016 8:29:48 GMT -6
2006, my 3rd year as HC. Small town Mid-Michigan football. Everyone was there. We were a lower tier team playing the best team in the conference. They had been a conference powerhouse for years. Class HC. Home game, and we had them on the ropes. I had a RB who was about 5'4/130 lb. and he was eating their lunch. We drove down and scored to take the lead with about 90 seconds on the clock. The town went berserk. We kicked our XP to go up by six. My stud TE came off the field looking pissed as hell. At first, I thought someone gave him a cheap shot, or he was hurt. I asked him what was wrong, and if he was okay. He looked at me and yelled, "well, I'd like the damn ball!" We actually tried to get him the ball on a couple of bootleg's but the QB threw elsewhere, but that is beside the point. I said, 'dude, we're about to get the biggest win in school history, and you're crying right now?! Come on man help us get this win.' I thought he would be inspired by my words, and I turned around to get the kickoff team ready. A few seconds later, I heard this huge explosion. You guessed it, he slammed his helmet on the ground. At that point, I had an assistant remove him from the sideline and into the locker room. It just so happens that he was a stud DE and our opponent knew that. So, being the great team they were, they drove down the field running to the side where our stud previously played. I tried with all my might to make adjustments in that short amount of time. We held them to a 3rd down stop on our own 2 yd line. They scored with .7 seconds on the clock to tie it up, then kicked the PAT and won the game. I always reflect on how I might have handled the situation differently. I was young at the time, and was big on discipline and respect. I still think I would have done the same thing, but wonder what other personnel adjustments I could have made. With a roster of 22 kids, there were only so many options that I had. That opponent has since gone on to become a state powerhouse. But my little guys shook them up for a bit. I think that way to go might have been the Sgt. Schultz route: "I see nothing. I hear nothing". Let the kid take it out on the bad guys. It's just not in my nature to ignore open disrespect. I think what I think about most is what I could have said to him to quell the situation in order to prevent him from getting more mad or continuing to harbor that anger.
Given the situation, it was intense on the sidelines, as you can imagine. In my haste to get back to the game, I dismissed how angry he actually was instead of calming him down and letting him know how important he was to us at that particular moment time.
We might have lost the game anyway because they were just that good.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 1, 2016 7:35:42 GMT -6
2006, my 3rd year as HC. Small town Mid-Michigan football. Everyone was there. We were a lower tier team playing the best team in the conference. They had been a conference powerhouse for years. Class HC.
Home game, and we had them on the ropes. I had a RB who was about 5'4/130 lb. and he was eating their lunch. We drove down and scored to take the lead with about 90 seconds on the clock.
The town went berserk. We kicked our XP to go up by six.
My stud TE came off the field looking pissed as hell. At first, I thought someone gave him a cheap shot, or he was hurt.
I asked him what was wrong, and if he was okay. He looked at me and yelled, "well, I'd like the damn ball!"
We actually tried to get him the ball on a couple of bootleg's but the QB threw elsewhere, but that is beside the point.
I said, 'dude, we're about to get the biggest win in school history, and you're crying right now?! Come on man help us get this win.'
I thought he would be inspired by my words, and I turned around to get the kickoff team ready. A few seconds later, I heard this huge explosion. You guessed it, he slammed his helmet on the ground.
At that point, I had an assistant remove him from the sideline and into the locker room. It just so happens that he was a stud DE and our opponent knew that. So, being the great team they were, they drove down the field running to the side where our stud previously played.
I tried with all my might to make adjustments in that short amount of time.
We held them to a 3rd down stop on our own 2 yd line. They scored with .7 seconds on the clock to tie it up, then kicked the PAT and won the game.
I always reflect on how I might have handled the situation differently. I was young at the time, and was big on discipline and respect. I still think I would have done the same thing, but wonder what other personnel adjustments I could have made. With a roster of 22 kids, there were only so many options that I had.
That opponent has since gone on to become a state powerhouse. But my little guys shook them up for a bit.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jun 10, 2016 11:53:59 GMT -6
That is the {censored} that pisses me off. Coaches, for the most part, shoot straight with the kid. I'm not trying to screw you over. I've been doing this 20+ years. I will tell you where I think you can go...at your current height/weight, etc. I'm not killing your dream...I'm being honest. That pisses parents off sometimes. Quit being blinded by the love of your child. The other thing I can't stand is that these guys go work out at different places with fancy names. And come back SLOWER than they were before? Again, getting told that what we do is wrong. One of the key reasons I'm hanging up the whistle soon. Get to 9th grade. Go to the school in your attendance area. Play YOUR HEART OUT FOR THAT SCHOOL AND YOUR FRIENDS. Whatever else happens after you're done...is gravy on top. You hit it right on the head...parents are blinded. Sometimes it's love, and sometimes it's ego. One of the worst things I ever saw (regarding this topic) is a kid who worked out at 10-12 different schools. Dad told me, 'don't worry coach, we're doing this on the weekend, he won't miss any weight room time.' And he didn't. Unfortunately, he had ultimately "over trained," for lack of a better phrase. When we started camp this kid looked like he had already played a season and a half, in two months over the summer. He had NO juice come August.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jun 10, 2016 11:47:00 GMT -6
a poster I always wanted to make and put up was the stats on players in the different divisions, if a kid would come up to me and say he was going to go somewhere I would say look at the poster and see how you compare, that might take care of some of the crap you face I found something (that could be made into a poster) with all the divisions and height/weight/40/bench/squat expectations, all on one sheet. PM me your email if you want it, and I'll send it.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jun 10, 2016 11:32:40 GMT -6
A few years back, I had a kid who received an offer from a MAC school. They were the first to offer him. He figured more schools would come for him.
The minute that coach left the room, I told him, you need to get up there, visit, and commit if you like it. I was trying to gently tell him that it was the best offer he was going to get. I also told him he could change his mind if something better came along (that's another conversation).
He waited and worked out at big schools and nothing ever came. He called them in the fall and they had filled their recruiting needs.
The image that always comes to mind is the scene in "All The Right Moves" where Tom Cruise's character Stefen Djordjevic played his hand wrong and had to call a school back that he had previously dissed.
My guy ended up at a D-II in the midwest.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jun 10, 2016 10:49:44 GMT -6
I just talked to a coach that received an email from a player who is going on 30...count 'em, 30 college workouts/visits this summer.
He lives in either Mississippi or Louisiana, I can't remember. But he will be traveling to five different states.
I saw his hudl film. He's decent, but my first impression was that he was a D-II kid hoping to catch a break with a D-I school.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jun 10, 2016 10:09:19 GMT -6
If players spent as much energy in going to the weight room and buying into their own programs as they do trying to get attention from colleges, most would end up in a good situation.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jun 10, 2016 9:21:22 GMT -6
I understand wanting to let kids down gently. I had to develop some strategies for this and this is what I've used in the past. #1: Let the numbers speak for themselves. I use links like these to show players and parents that if their kid doesn't fit the physical standards, that it can be a deterrent. www.prweb.com/releases/division-one-football/recruiting-guidelines/prweb9079017.htm#2: Show them where they are and where they should be. I use this type of link to show them the general strength standards. www.criticalbench.com/sportstraining.htm#3: Ask them how much attention they are currently receiving. Now this may invite the "well if you would put his name/film/etc. out there, he would get more attention." But at least they can see where they stand in the eyes of those who recruit. www.ncsasports.org/how-do-you-get-recruited/athletic-recruiting/recruiting-level It's never easy trying to make a young person see something they don't want to see. But, all you can do is provide the information. They have to deal with reality...whenever it hits them.
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Post by shocktroop34 on May 25, 2016 12:23:22 GMT -6
Disclaimer: I was not present to hear this, but it was told to me by an assistant on the staff of said HC.
A Hall of Fame coach in the Mid-Michigan area was in the process of turning around a struggling program.
During a game, one of the "fence leaners" yells out to the HC, "Hey Coach! Why don't you call some good plays!!!"
Without hesitation, the HC looks back and says, "Naw...I thought I'd call 19 or 20 of these $hitty plays first."
I heard everybody in the stands fell down laughing.
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Post by shocktroop34 on May 20, 2016 9:50:25 GMT -6
A lot of memories coming to mind...
I had a position coach in college that had a sign in his office that said:
"Eat the Frog First."
Months went by and I didn't have the guts to ask him what it meant. Finally, one day I came in early and we were just sitting around, and I asked him, "coach what the heck does that sign mean?!"
He said, "If the worst thing you have to do all day is eat a frog, then eat the frog first."
Lesson: Whatever it is, get the tough part done first, and try to enjoy the rest that comes.
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Post by shocktroop34 on May 20, 2016 9:36:05 GMT -6
Most of my lessons come from my time in Marine Corps boot camp.
One of the biggest lessons I learned was when I was in what is called "Third Phase" (about a month from graduation). I was the platoon Guide which was the top recruit in the platoon. I was basically in charge of about 45 men when the drill instructors weren't around. I paid for the mistakes of the platoon, so my job was to keep them on point.
In Third Phase, we were running on all cylinders and our platoon was pretty squared away. I figured if I just held everyone together and kept us out of any serious trouble, we'd have a smooth transition to graduation.
One day, this new Private is dropped into our platoon from another one. He got injured and once he healed, he resumed his training with us. His name was Pvt. Bailey.
He was the former Guide of his platoon and everyone, including himself, thought that he was going to take my job. He was a stud. He was bigger, smarter, and stronger than me. But, being the platoon Guide was pretty significant honor, and I had busted my tail to keep my job.
My comfort level was reduced instantly. The drill instructors were pressing me and stressing me like no other. Everything was, "Bailey's coming for your job, Guide...Bailey's coming for your job!" It was 24/7. Everything was pitted as a challenge between he and I.
At the end of the day, I had to step my leadership efforts up even more. I was already operating on 3-4 hours sleep for 3 months, but when Pvt. Bailey came in, I don't remember sleeping. I just took short naps. I'd didn't want him doing anything I couldn't see. In hindsight, he never tried to undermine me deliberately, but I wasn't sure about his motives at the time.
After a while, he realized that the men in the platoon saw that he couldn't top me, thus we all resumed under my leadership. Fortunately, I had enough rapport with the platoon, that they didn't turn on me when they could have.
Pvt. Bailey ended up as one of my squad leaders and turned out to be a really good dude. I learned a lot from him.
Sub-lessons I learned:
1) Never get too comfortable. In anything. 2) Never take the men that you work with (or have under you) for granted. 3) There is a lot to be said for sheer determination and effort.
Now, every time I'm in a situation and I feel like someone is "coming for me"...I call it Pvt. Bailey.
When an administrator seemingly has it out for me...it's Pvt. Bailey. When a parent brings their "pitch fork" to the game... it's Pvt. Bailey. When an opposing coach has a All-American DT that can't be blocked...it's Pvt. Bailey.
"Pvt. Bailey" is about stepping your game up and not accepting anything less than your best. If Bailey won in the end, he was going to have to kill me for it. It was that serious to me. Not many things, especially football, is that serious to me now. But I put my mind in the right perspective to work for something that I did not want to loose.
In short, the Major lesson is (regarding myself that is): I may not be the smartest, or most talented coach out there, but I simply will not be outworked. Lastly, there is no real way to measure work-ethic, but I guess it's just an internal feeling that I hope becomes validated with a positive result, regardless of the circumstances.
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Post by shocktroop34 on May 11, 2016 20:03:11 GMT -6
I like the coaches that think outside the box. The innovators. But not A-11 innovation. The coaches that take simplistic concepts and show a wrinkle that I never saw coming. Guys that see the game from a different angle.
I also like the guys that make you feel like you're getting information that no one else in the world knows about..."guys I really shouldn't be telling you this, but..."
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Post by shocktroop34 on May 10, 2016 10:33:45 GMT -6
I may have to put my name on this list. I've spoken at a few different clinics, but I just didn't feel very good about my presentations. I would have friends sit in and critique, and the feedback was helpful. I just don't feel like I got any better.
I didn't cuss or have many jokes. No magic tricks or wizardry. I kind of felt like a teacher that has to present in front of other teachers. Slightly nervous as I was in front of people who can spot a knucklehead a mile away.
Einstein has said, "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." Maybe I just didn't know what the hell I was talking about.
Anyway, "Toledo" Tom Amstutz. Early 2000's. He put in a VHS highlight video that was about 15 minutes long. Regurgitated some recycled quotes, and bolted. Literally stuff like, 'do your best everyday.' Real revolutionary stuff.
But, far be it from me to judge on this topic.
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Post by shocktroop34 on May 9, 2016 6:13:09 GMT -6
How dry do they keep your feet ? I second the idea about golf shoes. But these work well for me. My feet stay dry.
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Post by shocktroop34 on May 9, 2016 5:19:08 GMT -6
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