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Post by NC1974 on Jan 28, 2019 13:14:31 GMT -6
Am I the only person who has really soured on the experience of coaching Twitter? It could be and should be such an amazing tool for growth, discussion, sharing-finding-implementing new ideas, drills or scheme, and empowering each other as coaches. However, to me it has turned into: 1. an ego fest nightmare of guru snake oil salesman coaches looking to push their most recent “book” “system” or “newest innovative idea” 2. a place where people flock to look for as many likes and retweets as possible 3. an increasing and alarming trend of group think where individuals push the idea that there is only 1 way to do things anymore and only 1 way the game should be played (the most tilting and newest aspect is the increasing number of individuals who appear to think there’s only 1 way offensive football should be played because that’s the "safest" way football can be played – as if you can’t do other things outside of this group think and still stress player safety or care about player safety). It’s gotten so that individuals that I once really loved and enjoyed to follow because I felt like they brought a wealth of new information I just don’t enjoy following anymore for a variety of reasons. And I'm reluctant to engage in any sort of conversation or discussion because if you don't follow the group think then you're some terrible coach out to harm his players. Just the other day I saw an OL coach share an unpadded offseason drill that I thought was actually a pretty decent drill that made me think hmm that could be useful for us – first comment I saw was another coach flaming him for the things that were wrong with the drill because the athletes head was slightly forward (as a result that coach clearly doesn't care about athlete safety) and the athlete wasn’t driving off the midfoot. And as predicted the group thinkers joined the party quickly. How can any individual grow in that instance? Or why would they feel comfortable in sharing ideas and having discussions about what they do if they are just going to get flamed instantaneously? We’ve all seen the guys post vidoes of their athletes doing cringe worthy things in the weight room. I’ve only ever seen comments and retweets criticizing the coach and athlete I’ve rarely see comments of “coach if you stress this or change this or give the athlete this que you might see an improvement here in this regard.” It must just be so that it’s easier to criticize and tear down as opposed to share in an effort to improve. My biggest pet peeves are the group think of new age avant-garde OL guys who act as though all of a sudden they have developed the only safe way to play offensive football. That their offensive lineman or athletes never ever experience any incidental helmet contact because they have developed the superior technique and no other drills, ways, ideas are meaningful, useful, or worthy of being considered. That their athletes are capable of perfectly executing this new era “safe technique” on every snap of a game therefore eliminating risk for their athletes and as a result making them the most superior of superior coaches to ever grace the game of football with their being and as a result we should all be so thankful that they are willing to engage with the rest of us minions. IDK it just seems that coaching twitter has run its course for me and resulted in me engaging less and less these days as a result for all of the above reasons. And no I'm not a grumpy old man get off my lawn type. I'm 29 years old. Coach, I'm taking a guess that your are referring to the OLP Posse...LOL. I really like Bentley's stuff and actually pay $10 a month for his site (although I'm in the process of deciding if it's worth it) but he has a few acolytes on twitter that can be a bit much to take in. I bet I know exactly what OL drill you're referring to. The funny thing is, I agree with probably 99% of what these guys preach...the thing that seems to be different about twitter is the mutual respect and camaraderie of a clinic. I'm all for debating safety and best practice, but I think it can be done in a respectful manner. I don't know, maybe I'm too old to understand the tone of twitter.
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Post by NC1974 on Jan 9, 2019 18:11:18 GMT -6
For the most part I'm an OL coach. I think there are a ton of great resources on twitter. But there are a handful of coaches....many of them around 25 yrs old, that are just absolutely sure they have it all figured out....there is no place for speed ladders, chutes are the devil, veer blocking technique is all wrong....the funny thing is I agree with a lot of what these guys are preaching, but I am really put off by their tone. For some reason, the collegial atmosphere that exists on here and at clinics disappears pretty quickly on twitter.
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Post by NC1974 on Oct 7, 2018 9:38:52 GMT -6
Okay,
I had to drop physics in high school because I couldn't keep up, so I may be way off. But this seems promising. We know we can't keep the brain from banging against the inside of the skull, but it seems like material like this could significantly reduce the force at which the brain gets jarred. Can you where them in a game? Does it affect liability of helmet manufacturer? Are you seeing less concussions? Curious to hear your thoughts.
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Post by NC1974 on Oct 3, 2018 8:31:49 GMT -6
All in all, the kid that was "attacked" didn't suffer any injuries. no harm, no foul. Chalk it up to poor sportsmanship. Any background as to why junior Kyle Turley gave 110% effort? What if one of his mongo coaches tried to motivate him by making up a story about #17? Here's to hoping sub-par players who get owned on the field start a #MeToo movement about being bullied between the whistle. We need a "dislike" icon for posts like this
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Post by NC1974 on Sept 29, 2018 20:43:32 GMT -6
Hey guys,
Some time in the past few months, I came across a video (I believe it was an OL guy) who talked about flashing hands at a defender, almost the way you would do it to get someone to flinch, right before contact. At any rate, I can't remember who the guy was. Ring a bell to anybody?
Thanks
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Post by NC1974 on Sept 23, 2018 12:41:58 GMT -6
I like the idea of holding coaches and kids accountable but this seems way overboard. I believe for us, bad language can result in an unsportsmanlike...that to me seems reasonable, but getting tossed? And then isn't there a lot of room for interpretation on this rule? Do they have a list of profane language or is it up to the officials to discern tone and intent of something that was said? Just as an example, the word "suck" could be used in fairly benign ways or extremely profane ways depending on context. Seems like a can of worms to me.
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Post by NC1974 on Aug 13, 2018 20:45:25 GMT -6
T-shirts
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Post by NC1974 on Aug 1, 2018 20:15:04 GMT -6
Obviously don't know all the facts and expect everyone to get their due process. But like others said, this reminds me a bit of Penn State. IF someone in the organization knew and concealed it, it's just another example of how the basic values of the game ( or just basic values in general) have been overshadowed by $$$$$$$$. Word is the guy was a great recruiter.
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Post by NC1974 on Jul 25, 2018 13:42:33 GMT -6
"Most coaches can't be but once a week during summer. Coaches justify just the way you did. " I am a man, I have kids I have " Read more: coachhuey.com/thread/81844/grindseason-ruining-football?page=4#ixzz5MITzll8WI would wager that "MOST" coaches on this board would prove your above quote wrong. How big of a sample size do you have (at 23 yrs old I'm guessing) to make this statement. I think you are living in a bubble.
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Post by NC1974 on Jul 25, 2018 10:39:56 GMT -6
Grad17,
I have to ask because you have alluded to it several times now. Is there a particular coach on your staff who regularly misses practices and meetings? Are you allowing your experience with this guy to let you generally believe that that is how "older coaches" act? Your world view of coaches (and I'm assuming you are one) seems very warped. Which makes me wonder how much experience you have?
Here is another thought that may or may not pertain to you. I have been on staffs where everybody does what is expected of them, BUT one or two go getters go above and beyond and do all sorts of other things. (often times, but not always, these guy are young with no families).This is awesome and those go getters will surely be rewarded. BUT occasionally those go getters will take the attitude of "I do so much more than these other guys, they must be lazy, they must not care etc etc." That to me is an immature view. Not saying that's your deal, but it's something I've experienced.
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Post by NC1974 on Jul 23, 2018 12:01:41 GMT -6
In regards to the language:
I think "not being offended by it" and accepting it from the face of your organization are two different things. If I was on this guy's staff and he was MF this and MF that in meetings, it wouldn't bother me much at all. But if I was the President of the school and was out at practice and heard him MF this and MF that, I would find it unacceptable. You may recall a scene where there were town's people out watching practice in lawn chairs and blankets...men, women, children. If he is MFing in front of people like that, I would be embarrassed to be part of his staff and if I was the President, I definitely wouldn't accept it. And I know, he is winning and bringing all sorts of attention to the school. But if Im that President, I'm having a hard time looking in the mirror right now if I'm allowing this circus to go on.
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Post by NC1974 on Jul 22, 2018 11:15:29 GMT -6
Just finished. 1. The more I watch this the more I dislike the QB coach... he just comes across so fake and whiny 2. The QB can’t control himself at moments but I actually feel bad for him... when you see how his dad talks and has taken control of him you actually start to feel bad for him. He has so much pressure on him and doesn’t seem like he ever got to be a kid 3. I don’t know how you can watch this and not like the head coach... yes he’s off the hook. Yes he’s arrogant. Yes he appears underprepared each game... but he’s always been successful and most of what he’s saying is actually right... he doesn’t always express it in the most eloquent way... but for the most part he’s right I have a problem with guys who keep long hair and go into a professional setting. I’m saying this having been a guy in college with long hair and wore sandals everywhere. I have nothing against the look but once you step into a grownups world it’s time to leave certain things behind. Plus he was wearing his sunglasses during a night game in the second episode...come on man Edit: I also have a problem with 40 year olds still wearing their frat/sorority letters around. The only day it’s acceptable is when it’s a reunion day most Greek organizations have on homecoming. Otherwise all I see is the guy showing up to high school parties wearing his letter jacket from 1985 OK, but who do you think comes off as the absolutely least professional? It's got to be the HC IMO.
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Post by NC1974 on Jul 21, 2018 12:32:36 GMT -6
I just don't understand how the IC coach still has a job based on language and behavior. I like him as a character and I respect that he has dealt with a bunch of adversity, but I don't understand how the President of the college could watch this and not fire him immediately. I guess I'm naive. But I hate that there are elementary and high school kids watching this and thinking this is normal behavior by the coaches or players.
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Post by NC1974 on Jul 20, 2018 21:31:23 GMT -6
Do you still do Oklahoma drill and have full contact live practices on the regular? Do you teach bite the ball? Do you teach 3 points of contact for OL? If you don't: why not? we do all of it. If you are till teaching bite the ball, I would respectfully suggest that you are contributing to the demise of the game. I would all suggest upping your malpractice insurance.
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Post by NC1974 on Jul 20, 2018 21:25:27 GMT -6
I was still playing when they cut out cut blocking and people said that they were changing the game to the core. It didn't. Exactly what rules changes are changing the game to the core this time? you can't hit here, there or over here...logic and scrutiny says blocking and tackling is well on its way to being banned. Is there a specific rule change that you feel is changing the "game of football at it's core"? I ask because some of the proposed changes can be and gave been implemented in a way that doesn't change the actual game at all. Things like, requiring less days of full contact practices during the week, mandating doubles be structured in a way so you are not having 4-6 hours of live contact in one day etc. From a safety and public relations perspective, being able to tell parents that we: structure practice to minimize contact, teach techniques that reduce the use of the head, have a concussion protocol etc, are all things that are going to help save this sport, much more than flipping people the bird.
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Post by NC1974 on Jul 20, 2018 20:58:05 GMT -6
Again, this is one of the chief issues. Your arguments/comments go from chest thumping "here comes the cavalry" to "I won't change my mind" to "I honestly don't know if repeated blows to the head increase the risk for injury" to "well, if you think there is risk, why are these other sports legal?" To answer dubber 's question, being all over the place certainly is NOT the best way to help ease the concerns individuals might have over risks and football. None of these represent cogent arguments. Rather than just spouting out things, it would probably be better to recognize the risk. From a public relations as well as persuasive point of few, claiming "fake news" as Fedora seems to be doing probably is not the best form of the argument, particularly when you have Legends of the game that people admire saying "hmm.. I am screwed up. Maybe this is why" Remember simply saying that this is misplaced hysteria is giving a big middle finger to a lot of men who brought the game where it is today. It seems to me that a better form of the argument is to recognize potential risk, recognize the data, but also bring about some other points that I have seen on the board many times : --There seems to be many more ex football players, particularly ex HS football players who aren't experiencing these symptoms than there are those falling victim. --It is hard to control for other factors given the research designs for much of the data presented. --There are risks in life. Driving is more dangerous than sports. Especially given the increase in distracted driving. However, the benefits gained by driving outweigh the risks. Highlight benefits, starting with the enjoyment of the sport of football. I think this is critical, because I don't believe arguments stating football is the only way to learn certain traits will work (particularly because I myself don't believe those. You can learn teamwork, hard work, perseverance, overcoming obstacles etc through many activities. So just focus the argument on enjoying life and the sport itself. flip them all the bird. Tell them when you see hard comprehensive evidence, which they are lifetimes away from having, to come talk about the safety of contact sports. Internally, fb should do everything it can to rid of people who denigrate the game of football. But this cowering to " public pressure" by changing the game of fb at its core? F--- that. If kids no longer want to play? Fine. If parents come to the conclusion that fb is to dangerous? Fine. I can deal with market forces saying fb is no longer, but for fb to cower at accusation with no real evidence is banana land. I don't want to convince people to play This is a dangerous and violent game. I am not interested in making it for everybody. Grad17, If we flip everyone the bird, we are going to be turning prospective players away from the game. As far as I know, we’re hurting for numbers across the country. Are you not experiencing this problem in your region?
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Post by NC1974 on Jul 20, 2018 19:50:35 GMT -6
This is an influence on public opinion on the coaching profession and football, yet Fedora thinks losing these things will ruin the country? Yes, I am having trouble finding any of the positive characteristics that many of us love about football, or sports in general, depicted in these shows. Spoiler Alert -This HC is at the very least involved in emotional manipulation essentially asking his player to reciprocate his love for them by playing better? It's a circus. And I'm sure all of our kids are watching it and some are thinking "this is what real football is like"...ugh.
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Post by NC1974 on Jul 20, 2018 14:25:42 GMT -6
Spoiler Alert
I've had a little down time, and binged some season 4 (I think) of Friday Night Tykes and watched the 1st episode of the new Last Chance U........I'm entertained but depressed. I need to remind myself that it's entertainment, but I don't know. This is the image of our sport? The HC for Independence Community College on Lat Chance U, is a likeable enough guy but I can't understand how any publicly funded institution would not fire this guy, just on language alone. Maybe I'm getting old, but I'm embarrassed.
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Post by NC1974 on Jul 20, 2018 14:06:55 GMT -6
Well, that's not true. I woke up this morning thinking that I liked most of the new rules, but this made me think a little bit more. I am mostly positive still to them, since I see it as the lesser of 2 evils, but I will be more vocal now about making the rules more reasonable. Result of a good discussion between two adults should lead to that IMO, so thank you if people stop playing game for safety I am ok with that. But I am outright opposed to changing fundamentally just to appease. If enough people stop playing because of safety, the game will die. Fedora's comments about the science being unsettled are correct, but IMO, his tone and other comments are not helping our cause. If I'm a parent who is thinking about letting my kid play, I want to hear a coach acknowledge that cte is a legitimate concern and even though the science is unsettled, we are doing everything we can to proactively protect our players. I can relate to how he feels, but I think comments like this hurt us.
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Post by NC1974 on Jun 28, 2018 22:08:33 GMT -6
I have been thinking about this awhile. I graduated high school when the Grind season was beginning to start catching attention. It seems coaches have fallen into this as well. If you dont spend 18 hours a week in the summer at the field house, than you are not a committed coach. I have seen numerous threads talking about various things i'll mention in this thread. First, there was a thread months maybe years back talking about the declining numbers in football. I am currently coaching at a school where the numbers are in the lower 20s, and in the 80s and 90s they would be in the upper 30s to lower 40s. I am about to say something that either everybody wants to say, or nobody wants to hear. Most Summer workouts and Summer activities are killing off the classic football roster. Used to, kids would be able to show up for fall camp two weeks before school and be able to play. Kids would be able to be recruited to play during the first days of school. Kids played because it was something to do. Kids played because it was fun. Now, it has turned into a summer job for players. How many kids on your teams work the traditional summer jobs? Construction, Farms, etc. Talked to a coach today at a large school who said only 20% of their players even have part time jobs. The reason the numbers are declining is the kids who would play for fun are now being kicked off or bad mouthed by coaching staff. Today, if a kid chooses not to make football his life for four years, he's wasting his potential, or he is lazy. These are the players who do not play anymore. The number one thing I hear from a quitting football player is "I just want to focus on *insert sport here*". They say this because they were playing football out of boredom. Something to do in the fall. But since you want to spend 2-4 hours a day everyday in the summer, it is no longer worth it to those type of players to play. Thus, killing the large roster size, and the "every boy in the school plays football" era. Long story short, if a Kid is unwilling to make football his summer job, he doesnt play football anymore. I understand everyone is doing it, which makes you have to out work them or keep up with them to be successful, but at some point, you have to remind yourself that we are turning a generation from football. I think we have gone to far, and long for the time where kids were able to be kids, and football at this level was a sport and not a year round job. The reason numbers are is not #grindseason. Its the adults. We cannot ask to show for 25 work outs over the summer and 80 pct.of the staff can't be found. Or only shows up for 10 workouts. Kids will look at you sideways. You cannot demand kids show up on time then start the meeting whenever it convenes you or have staff members walk in late. Cannot claim family as a reason to leave the office then ask parents to schedule events around your practices. The kids can see the non sense and double standard. They will in kind tell you where to go. Its not the kids that are the problem. I have to admit, I'm intrigued by Grad17's posts. He seems to be coaching in an environment where coaches regularly miss practices and show up late to meetings? Or am I misreading?
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Post by NC1974 on Jun 28, 2018 20:20:50 GMT -6
We talk of grinding as football coaches and making it grinding for our kids we work with in the summer.. I ask some of our kids today after workouts about playing for the fun of it. Many of these kids I ask specifically that are playing basketball and baseball this summer along with doing our workouts. Here was my conversation with a few kids today about playing for fun! Coach to player: “you go play basketball or baseball in the afternoon and on weekends for AAU or some organized travel team in a tournament?” Player to coach: “yes sir, we play so and so this weekend” Coach to player: “does it cost you?” Player to coach: “we have to pay some fee to help with entrance fee for tournaments and jerseys” Coach to player: “When is the last time you played a game for fun. Got some guys together and played pick up basketball or maybe a game of wiffleball?” Player to coach: “last time I played a pick up basketball game was on spring break” (2 months ago) Another player to coach: “we played some ball over the Christmas holidays” Funny we talk about kids playing a game for fun and bring up going to play AAU basketball or travel baseball yet the kids I ask today hadn’t played for fun in at least a couple of months. We can provide excuses about workouts and grinding but face it those kids paying money to play AAU basketball and travel baseball ain’t playing for FUN! They just dont have to work hardly at all in AAU or travel baseball. Like I said in my other post we don’t grind as a staff or ask our kids to grind. Come in and do what you do and get gone. this whole thread is adults using kids a human shield to attack their issues with time being spent "away from family." That has not been said in this thread, but it is at the heart of it. A lot of "coaches" would rather be do something else and I would bet family is not the list. Adults have a problem with the work and the competition, not the KIDS. Kids love it. Grad17, I'm trying to clarify your position. You believe that this thread is about coaches not wanting to put in the time? I suppose that could be true in some cases. But that wouldn't help explain the decline in numbers that many of us are experiencing, could it? My two cents: I think you have some kids who love "the grind" or extra hours. But the reality is in order to function a football program needs numbers. I believe that for many kids there comes a point that the time requirement outweighs the satisfaction they are getting from the sport. We could we respond by saying well good riddance to those kids. But it's hard to have a program without those kids.
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Post by NC1974 on Apr 5, 2018 20:09:45 GMT -6
Yeah, I probably need to re-think HOW to say what I'm trying to say. What is the stat? 2% of kids get full rides? We're not going to put our program goals/values in the backseat to cater to 2% of the kids. That being said, we believe that if kids buy into our program and they are talented enough, those opportunities should present themselves, and we will help facilitate that. It can be a priority to help johhny get a scholarship but it cannot come before our program goals/values.
You walked this back a bit, so I don't want to try and kill your original post here ...
but,
I don't think your original post was a good way to handle this
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its easy as coaches to see it from the vantage point of playing football is a big privilege, and it is, but its also big commitment
they're not out of line, to not take it well, if you tell them, "hey, put the team first" and then "what? you expect me to care about your future?"
I think that's asking kids and parents to go outside of your system
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I think a better approach -
try and explain that its a system that not as susceptible to gaming as they are sometimes led to believe
some of this is out of your and my control, a couple of inches in how tall the kid is going to be is going to make a stupid amount of difference (sometimes life works like that, its not a pure meritocracy)
sometimes a taller kid is going to get a scholarship over the kid who works harder
that said, the coaches who bet their careers on who to give their finite scholarships aren't stupid, they're not going to get conned into giving a kid a scholarship by a slick talking HS coach (they're definitely not getting conned into giving a kid a scholarship by a slick talking trainer or 7 on 7 coach), they're not going to open the newspaper and hand out a scholarship based on a stat line, they're pretty good at teasing out that some kids are in some roles on some teams and putting that into context, they want hard workers and good students. (those are things that you can control, if you control the things you control, I'll control what I control, and life works itself out like that)
That said, I care about you, I care about your future, I appreciate what you've committed to this program, to the degree that I'm able to help you, I will
Pitt, well said.
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Post by NC1974 on Apr 5, 2018 12:17:53 GMT -6
I am not an HC but I think I would include the following in every "meet the parent meeting" -Program goals - explicitly state and/or imply that getting Johhny a scholarship is not a major goal. If a player/parent's only reason for playing HS ball is to get a scholarship, then they should be prepared for the fact that their goals might not line up with our program goals. That being said, if an athlete is good enough and buys into our program, he should put himself in a position to continue his career. Just understand, one of the questions that you'll probably get at a HC interview will be along the lines of, "How do you go about getting kids recruited". Yeah, I probably need to re-think HOW to say what I'm trying to say. What is the stat? 2% of kids get full rides? We're not going to put our program goals/values in the backseat to cater to 2% of the kids. That being said, we believe that if kids buy into our program and they are talented enough, those opportunities should present themselves, and we will help facilitate that. It can be a priority to help johhny get a scholarship but it cannot come before our program goals/values.
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Post by NC1974 on Apr 5, 2018 7:05:25 GMT -6
I am not an HC but I think I would include the following in every "meet the parent meeting" -Program goals - explicitly state and/or imply that getting Johhny a scholarship is not a major goal. If a player/parent's only reason for playing HS ball is to get a scholarship, then they should be prepared for the fact that their goals might not line up with our program goals. That being said, if an athlete is good enough and buys into our program, he should put himself in a position to continue his career. -Making a distinction between HS, College, and Pro Ball. HS Football is not a business, it is part of the educational process and will be treated as such -Have a part of your presentation dedicated to those who want to play college ball. Start this section with the statistics. Drive home just how small of a percentage of kids pay for school through athletics. Include something on 3rd party trainers/recruiters etc explaining "Buyer Beware". -Possibly add some quotes from college quotes regarding the recruiting process...I have seen good ones from Urban Meyer and Pat Fitzgerald floating around that strongly imply that the HS coach, not the trainer or 7v7 coach, is the gatekeeper.
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Post by NC1974 on Mar 17, 2018 10:14:28 GMT -6
Pros -can work on foot work, leverage, hand placement -injects a little competition
Cons -OL at huge disadvantage in my view i.e. DL knows it's drop back, can't really jump set (for a change up)a guy with no pads -At the high school level, one bloody nose can get somebody in hot water.
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Post by NC1974 on Feb 15, 2018 8:14:05 GMT -6
Thanks for all of the responses, keep them coming. Rosey, did you say your total cholesterol was 97 or 197?
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Post by NC1974 on Feb 14, 2018 9:55:21 GMT -6
I didn't want to hijack Fantom's thread, but it got me thinking: Does anyone feel that they have established a good routine to keep those old injuries at bay? I'm 43 and I'm a work on progress
The Good: -When the weather is good I get plenty of bike riding in -When the weather is bad, I get a few days a week on the exercise bike -1 to 2 circuit type resistant workouts a week, try to focus on effort, and smooth reps, try not to do anything that will make my lower back and shoulders too cranky
The Bad: - My diet sucks - A good 40-50 lbs over weight - Would probably benefit from a more dedicated stretching/mobility routine
Anyone feel like they have the secret? Especially the over 40 crowd?
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Post by NC1974 on Feb 1, 2018 14:17:00 GMT -6
I definitely don't think it has to be either or. I think it has to do with how you try to instill toughness. If you are trying to instill toughness by making kids run 6 miles a day, than that might be counter productive. But on the other hand, if you're trying to instill it by making OL sustain a drive block for 6 seconds or through the whistle, I think you can do that and still avoid grinding them down.
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Post by NC1974 on Jan 31, 2018 9:01:37 GMT -6
If you really want to get 54695469 going, drop the C-word and see how he reacts....no, not that C-word....I'm talking about C-U-L-T-U-R-E
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Post by NC1974 on Jan 30, 2018 22:08:44 GMT -6
Its California, the liberals that run that state and the education system hate everything masculine. They would love to eliminate football, and have all those football players in tutus, change their names to Nancy, and talk about their feelings. This is just part of the liberal attack on football, America, and everything good about this country. I'm glad I am out of that state, and never going back. You weren't quite able to keep to your original intention here huh: "My opinion is that their hatred for the sport stems from political ideology, but that discussion is not for this thread."
Read more: coachhuey.com/thread/80109/humboldt-state#ixzz55jR2RTPN
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