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Post by s73 on Jul 17, 2013 18:57:31 GMT -6
Maybe so. You also run a slippery slope losing possibly 6 starters, going 1-9, and getting your a$$ fired. If you feel comfortable letting them slide on it then by all means do so. I'm assuming you posted this question on this website looking for insight. So I added some insight to what the other kids on the team may see from this special treatment you may use. If the school you coach at is more worried about the record than teaching young men how to make decisions and the consequences that come with them, then you may be better off at a different school. Personally, I would go with the kids who have committed themselves the through the offseason and intend to commit themselves throughout the regular season. You may lose some games, but you won't lose face. And the younger grades coming up will see and understand that you won't let your players on your team be halfway committed. Good luck this season. I hope everything works out for the best. cfoott, Just curious if you'd be willing to share whether or not you are the head coach. As for the "special treatment" that fantom is handing out, and the domino effect that may have, I'm sorry but I have to call BS on this. I use to believe this also, then I came to the realization that the vast majority of that is just cliche/excuse for many of us to jam FB down HS kids throats. The fact of the matter is many of them can't even remember what they had for breakfast, let alone if you gave a couple of kids some break the year before. In fact, it's more likely that some kids can just as easily accuse you of giving special treatment when you're not. The bottom line is, I don't make judgements on what kids think or might think. I try to make judgements based on what I believe to best. That DOES NOT look the same for all of us. I think the OP needs to do what he feels is best regardless of what anyone else thinks (especially kids). Just my opinion.
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Post by s73 on Jul 17, 2013 15:22:29 GMT -6
s73 he says that it is separate from "our actual highschool baseball team". Yeah, just read the post where it says that. Dang, that sucks. This is a TOUGH spot. I do not envy OP at all. Personally, the only thing I could see making this work is trying to schedule around it so they are their for the practices. I mean 4-6 contributors and your QB's? That BLOWS! Like I said, I would try to schedule around. I mean, I get taking a stand and the hard line about "this is our schedule" but on the other hand, if this kills your team, life is short and a whole season is several months of misery. I value life too much. Personally, I would try to make it work if I could.
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Post by s73 on Jul 17, 2013 14:40:34 GMT -6
Tough call on this one, especially if numbers are an issue. But, I hate startling the season without all our players. We started last year wih three contributors out due to off-season athletic code violations. They each missed three games. Another contributor missed the first game due to not meeting the Illinois required 12 practice days before playing. Two kids did some Army training program and started late also. The season was a train wreck. We are usually pretty good but it was like we never got going last year. Nine weeks later it was over and we were packing away equipment while other schools were getting ready for playoffs. Another factor for late starting kids is the fact that while they missed practices and games someone was there every day an game and playing their spot. Once the missing kids are eligible what do you do with the kid that was playing? Whatever you do leads to hard feelings. It sucks. Now I do every thing I can to make sure we have everyone from day one. Agree w/ everything you are saying. I HATE not having all of my guys not ready for day 1. I guess where I differ w/ others is the OP said that it was the finish of their baseball season (legion) but that his school does not offer any other baseball. So this is their only baseball season. If the choice is to have the kids late b/c of prior commitment (not just vacation) then I would rather have them late than not at all since I don't have a choice in the matter. Now if we were talking baseball season ended and they told me they were going to miss more b/c fall ball was starting up, well that would be a line in the sand for me b/c your baseball season ended and FB started. Either commit to what we are doing or get out. I just can't see telling a kid NOT to finish his prior commitment if that was the only baseball season he had. Now if they had Spring school ball and he was missing FB for legion, that to would be a problem for me. But that's not the case unless I confused OP for someone else's post.
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Post by s73 on Jul 17, 2013 12:00:55 GMT -6
This debate has raged on for years w/ no clear answer that works in every situation. I think the best answer is the one each coach is most comfortable with and the one that he feels he can manage in the long run. You may compromise this year and then realize you are compromising every year and you just can't do that. You may not compromise this year and boot them. But what if it happens again next year? Are you comfortable booting kids every year if necessary? Is your admin going to support angry parents storming the castle every year? Are your assistants going to be okay w/ losing good position players every year? Are the current teammates going to be okay w/ the possibility of losing quality players every year thus hurting chances of success? Personally, I would try to find an alternate way of satisfying what you need while still keeping the players, maybe some kind of make up sessions or something. After all, this supposed to be fun for us to right? Just my opinion. Good luck! So when do we stop bending over backwards as football coaches for every other sport? It seems to me that no one ever misses baseball to go to a 7-7 in the spring. Always seems that we are talking about summer baseball or summer basketball but God forbid we say come Aug 12th (our first official day) all other sports are over. It's our season now. F' that. Try telling your principal "Hey I am gonna miss the first 5 days of school because I need to finish up teaching summer school at the charter school down the road" And yes we had two kids who would have been two way starters, that we had practically begged to play for us, come rolling in their Sr year on Wed. of game week 2 and want to play. Our HC looked them in the eye and said "Why cause fall ball is over now?" They were stunned for a second but finally said "Yes" and we told them to hit the road they had their chance. Coach I get what you're saying and I agree w/ you. However, I feel the trick is NOT TO BEND OVER BACKWARDS FOR OTHER SPORTS. For example, when does a kid miss baseball for 7 on 7 ? For us, last week. When does a kid miss football for basketball? For us, the beginning of the summer b/c it's furthest from our season. When does a kid miss basketball for football? For us, end of the summer b/c it's closest to our season. Tomorrow I have a 2 way starter missing camp for baseball and then going to 7 on7 tournament Friday and missing baseball for football. I feel the trick is compromise. Our AD has done a nice job (with our influence) to sit us all done in the Spring and hash out summer schedules that we can all make work. I get some stuff and have to concede other stuff. If you are conceding all of the stuff then don't. Now, if regular season is screwed up b/c of summer baseball like OP stated, our state has rules about number of practices that kids need in order to play. Why not let the kids come out late? What's the harm? You have 2 extra practice dummies for a couple of weeks, they miss a couple of games for coming out late and maybe they can help you in the long run. Not sure why this is so bad.
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Post by s73 on Jul 17, 2013 8:16:47 GMT -6
This debate has raged on for years w/ no clear answer that works in every situation. I think the best answer is the one each coach is most comfortable with and the one that he feels he can manage in the long run. You may compromise this year and then realize you are compromising every year and you just can't do that. You may not compromise this year and boot them. But what if it happens again next year? Are you comfortable booting kids every year if necessary? Is your admin going to support angry parents storming the castle every year? Are your assistants going to be okay w/ losing good position players every year? Are the current teammates going to be okay w/ the possibility of losing quality players every year thus hurting chances of success? Personally, I would try to find an alternate way of satisfying what you need while still keeping the players, maybe some kind of make up sessions or something. After all, this supposed to be fun for us to right? Just my opinion. Good luck! I could see the make-up sessions if they were missing conditioning sessions but this is actual practice. Throwing in a little more running might be OK to make up for one missed practice but we're talking about one, maybe two weeks and it's actual football: learning the plays, running the plays with teammates, working on technique. I'm as lenient as anybody about missing offseason conditioning stuff for other sports but I do draw the line when it comes to getting ready for games. Is a compromise possible (My motto is, "I can't be bought but I CAN be rented")? Legion games are in late afternoon. Why do they have to clash with practice? If it is true that the legion games are not at the same time as practice then I completely agree with you 100%. No reason they cannot go to practice and then play the games. NONE what so ever. But, I did not see where the OP said that. If true I'm on board 100%. I guess my overall point is that I feel this board is great for coaching advice but we still have to know our situations and make our own decisions b/c we have to live w/ them. In that sense, the best advice I can give is to make the decision each of us can live with b/c no one on the board can bail you out if you take advice and it doesn't work out for you. IMO anyone can coach FB but good coaching takes a special person. Part coach, part father, part politician. It's not easy especially the gray areas. I freely admit I don't know 100% what I would do here. But, I would try to see long term what I could live w/ the most and probably base my decision off of that.
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Post by s73 on Jul 17, 2013 7:42:12 GMT -6
This is simple. When the first day of state allowed practice begins, football practice is mandatory. We make that very clear in our parents meeting during June. We explain that outside of lifting in the off season we don't ask for much and encourage multi-sport athletes so when our season rolls around be there or have fun watching from the stands. This debate has raged on for years w/ no clear answer that works in every situation. I think the best answer is the one each coach is most comfortable with and the one that he feels he can manage in the long run. You may compromise this year and then realize you are compromising every year and you just can't do that. You may not compromise this year and boot them. But what if it happens again next year? Are you comfortable booting kids every year if necessary? Is your admin going to support angry parents storming the castle every year? Are your assistants going to be okay w/ losing good position players every year? Are the current teammates going to be okay w/ the possibility of losing quality players every year thus hurting chances of success? Personally, I would try to find an alternate way of satisfying what you need while still keeping the players, maybe some kind of make up sessions or something. After all, this supposed to be fun for us to right? Just my opinion. Good luck!
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Post by s73 on Jul 16, 2013 20:11:29 GMT -6
This would be during the actual football season. It is a continuation of their summer baseball season and it would be a big regional tournament. This is a tough one, as we talk about finishing what you start, but also you'd be missing many fall camp days and playing in a non- school activity. First of all, if they committed to another team I think they should finish that commitment. I would not expect kids to leave my team early for another sport so I will respect other commitments likewise. Secondly, I used to be a hard liner on this, but I found that conditioning the crap out of them as a make up rather than punishment keeps unnecessary missing to minimum. I may get blasted for this, but I don't think I'm compromising my values all that much, the kids are still receiving a consequence and you can still keep the guys you need. Let's face it , in HS ball we are expected to win nowadays. So my view is to find a way to keep commitments relatively strong while keeping my team competitive and keeping my job security as well. I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, but I think compromise has become a necessity especially in smaller schools b/c some kids are stretched thin but we need them. Blast away fellas, but in a smaller school, I think it's what's needed.
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Post by s73 on Jul 16, 2013 11:17:03 GMT -6
I suppose that is why it is important to establish HOW you practice. Practice not until you can get it right, but practice until you can't get it wrong. We talk about "play like you practice" all the time, but that has to be true during the moments that a play isn't being ran. How much effort and body language is being reinforced during those times? Since we, as coaches, are ultimately responsible for the team's performance we have to control (eliminate the chance they can screw this up) our kids on the field. Keep them moving, keep them engaged, provide different opportunities for them to win. What can we do to not lose our players (instead of expecting them to always be engaged at on point)? The point is, reinforce the speed, effort, intensity they should compete through the entire duration of practice (between drills, during stretch, moving on the field, etc) Being organized (down to the reps) and having the rest of the staff on this same schedule is what it will take. Easier said than done, I know, but the more we rely on individual kids to make plays or make us look good, the more your practices will be at the mercy of their emotions (if they feel like giving effort). While all of that is true I think that you'v done this long enough to know that every team will have a couple of lousy practices every year. Sometimes they're predictable (first day of classes; an abrupt, drastic change in the weather; etc.) sometimes it's random. I'll agree that if they're happening a lot the staff is probably doing something wrong. Even if the coaches are doing things right, though, you'll still have a few of those days. I agree w/most what was stated above. Interestingly, yesterday was solid (1st 3 plays stunk and then we got going). Today was solid as well. Nothing great, but probably a B-. I will say this about myself, I fall into the trap of looking at a team in June/July and comparing them to the team the year before. Last years team was very good. So, this thought process can be good as I evaluate the positions and say I need "X" amount of production from this spot or that one. I have a measure through comparison of what we need to be successful. Where it is also bad is the fact that the last memory I have of my team from last year is the play offs. It's like apples to oranges. One team is a play off team at the end of a season's worth of practices and the other team is in summer camp, so obviously things are not going to look the same. I know that, I just have to be more cognizant of it. We've been successful for a little while now, so I just catch myself expecting things to be smooth and well done all the time. I know better, but it seems to be a fault I need to correct. With that being said, we have 2 kids on our team that if things don't go their way or they get corrected repeatedly and you do end up yelling at them or replacing them, they seem to be somewhat cancerous. By this I mean, pouting, sitting out, sudden change in effort, body language, etc. I am wondering how you guys deal w/ this situation. I have been fortunate that we don't see this much at my school, so I'm a little "rusty" in dealing w/ these kids. My 1st inclination is to confront it. But I wonder if ignoring it is almost better. Look forward to any responses you might have.
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Post by s73 on Jul 12, 2013 16:57:13 GMT -6
Looking just at the specific instance. Heres the thing, performance will usually balance itself out, if your team has 5 below average plays, then odds are they will have 5 above average plays (otherwise those youd assume those below avg. plays are just who they are). Your team was already not preforming well compared to what you expect (and I imagine what they have shown), so odds are that if you would continue to do your normal job coaching (holding them accountable) they would've balanced things out. Now I imagine that yelling now and then can create a brief (1 or 2 plays) spike in performance, but there is also diminishing marginal returns. Still, you remember that one play and the point you yelled as the turning point, so it appears that the yelling was the cause for the complete turnaround. The same theory is shown in the inverse. Often times when our players are performing well we compliment them (or for some yell less); now odds are if theyve had a lot of good plays they will have some bad ones. And when those bad ones come, what do we attribute it to? Us yelling less. When really its just the way things are. Now please dont assume that I think everything is just random, we have a great influence on how our players and teams perform. Its just that I think we can hold our players accountable and demand certain things without blowing a gasket and getting all emotional. For the most part I believe and i agree w/ this. However, I also feel that a team is a reflection of their coach. Like I said, this wasn't a thread about is it right or wrong to yell so much as why at times it seems effective. But, I also think that this is an emotional game and it requires a lot of fire and passion. I think your philosophy about a team being up and down probably applies to coaches as well. I think you have to treat kids well and morally, you should. But I also think they need to see your passion, even if it's a butt chewing. I think the law needs to be laid down from time to time and I believe some kids feed off of a fiery coach, as long as it's kept in perspective. I also believe that emotion in the minds of many people means that you care. BTW, we had our best practice of the summer. I don't care why we did, just that we did. Good discussion.
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Post by s73 on Jul 12, 2013 6:41:42 GMT -6
isn't this thread really about intensity? You don't have to yell (or you could) You don't have to have a deep depth chart (it helps) You don't have to have rewards/punishment (can work) it ultimately comes down to kids getting after it in practice and trying to improve, amirite? Brophy, Nail on the head. Well said. I told my kids yesterday after I reamed them and they started playing w/ INTENSITY that I believe that it is my job as their FB coach to "take them where they cannot take themselves". I learned long ago that I cannot control the talent that comes through our doors. Nick Saban is not visiting us anytime soon for sure. But... I also decided a long time ago, that my NUMBER ONE ON THE FIELD GOAL was going to squeeze every drop of potential out of every team I coach, and that if I do that, I believe even our worst teams can be competitive. With that being said, it looks as though this season may involve more "squeezing" than I am used to. Thanks for the reply.
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Post by s73 on Jul 12, 2013 5:56:42 GMT -6
BLB, I like many of your posts, but don't give me the it's July routine. I have posted on many occasions that my approach to FB is work smarter not harder. We do not use all of our summer contact days, we do not do 2 a days and we do not practice on Saturdays and we do not condition. But......I also tell them that since that's my approach, when we DO PRACTICE, it had better be {censored} good! Hence, the unpleasantries. With that being said, as I stated in OP, I am not looking for the is it okay to yell discussion. I am looking for why kids suddenly improve when you do. I suspect it's fear or they were just lazy before or whatever. I guess that just does not compute to me b/c I was limited in my ability as a player, but as a result, I went very hard when I practiced and did not need to be motivated to do so. In a nutshell, I guess I just don't understand or accept lack of effort very well. PS _ I should also mention that we frontload our summer. In other words, we do everything at the beginning, and then take a month off before August practice. Hence the other reason we need to "get going" b/c were almost done. I understand, you know why you do what you do - but the players don't have the "reward" of the actual contest to look forward to. It's too far down the road, not even on the horizon. So simply based on human nature you are going to have some "lulls" in the effort department at this time of year which are going to require you to "motivate" them. I tell our kids I know we're going to have a few bad practices during the season, but one's not going to be today. And we're going to get two good hours in, even if it takes us six. I guess my thoughts are that the reward of starting would be enough to want to go hard. But, I see what you're saying. After further reflection, I guess a better title for the thread would have been, why do kids go out for a contact sport and then practice like they are afraid of contact? I know we've all seen the kid who seems to love football, but hesitates on the contact portion of things. That's really more of what was happening. I developed a rather unique FB philosophy about 8-10 years ago that I was not going to be a FB coach who meets or practices for the sake of meeting or practicing. In other words, we will meet ad practice as minimally as possible but the practice had better be good when we do. I would define it as quality over quantity and it has worked rather well for us. I guess I felt like they were kind of "breaking the deal" yesterday. But... I recognize that as being kids. What confused me was that the kids who were playing poorly were better than that. Today is a new day, the 1st thing I'm going to do today is remind them of my philosophy and "the deal". I hate being the "yeller" but I hate non passionate football both from a player and a coach even more. Thanks for the replies.
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Post by s73 on Jul 11, 2013 19:02:25 GMT -6
It's July 11. How many days or weeks until your first game? Can you really expect them to practice as hard now as Game Week? Human Beings are naturally lazy. Most, especially juveniles-adolescents, need prods. Being Positive but Demanding works best. Our kids know that when I raise my voice something serious has happened (or not). Now because I have a way of projecting and enunciating pointedly sometimes they (like my daughters did) think I'm "yelling," when I'm not. But no one can use "I didn't hear you" as an excuse. So long as you also enthusiastically praise them when they do what is expected or better - which frankly is underrated by most coaches - they will listen and respond. Kids have a weakness for the "soft sell" meaning compliments-positive reinforcement and will work harder to receive it. And isn't that where confidence comes from, too? Our kids also know they only get their azz chewed for mental mistakes and lack of effort. And it is possible to chew azz with a smile on your face. BLB, I like many of your posts, but don't give me the it's July routine. I have posted on many occasions that my approach to FB is work smarter not harder. We do not use all of our summer contact days, we do not do 2 a days and we do not practice on Saturdays and we do not condition. But......I also tell them that since that's my approach, when we DO PRACTICE, it had better be {censored} good! Hence, the unpleasantries. With that being said, as I stated in OP, I am not looking for the is it okay to yell discussion. I am looking for why kids suddenly improve when you do. I suspect it's fear or they were just lazy before or whatever. I guess that just does not compute to me b/c I was limited in my ability as a player, but as a result, I went very hard when I practiced and did not need to be motivated to do so. In a nutshell, I guess I just don't understand or accept lack of effort very well. PS _ I should also mention that we frontload our summer. In other words, we do everything at the beginning, and then take a month off before August practice. Hence the other reason we need to "get going" b/c were almost done.
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Post by s73 on Jul 11, 2013 15:41:32 GMT -6
Before anyone says: Yeah, yelling for a little while works but then kids tune you out, that's not what I'm really talking about.
I'm also not talking about yelling as your 1st choice of communication. I always tell my kids I will TALK to you about performance until talking does not work anymore. Then I will yell. But that's not even what this thread is about.
Here's what it's about: Today we looked pitiful during team offense for about 15 straight minutes. Then finally after a slow boil, I blow a gasket for a good 30 seconds to a minute. Suddenly, my fullback who couldn't run through a wet paper bag starts running like Earl campbell. My line start hammering dudes, and we go from 1 yard gains to 5-10 yard gains and scored 2 long TD's 1 on the ground and 1 in the air.
We as FB coaches probably get the reputation as "yellers" more than most coaches in other sports. My question is, why does it take that? And.... don't the kids bare some of that responsibility? Like I said above I will talk until it doesn't work anymore than I will get your attention w/ rather loud "verbal cues".
But again, my voice does not make them bigger, faster or stronger. So why the sudden "change in ability"?
I know I'm not the 1st coach to see a difference when this happens, so what is it that makes the kids suddenly tear it up after you tear them up?
Just curious what your thoughts are.
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Post by s73 on Jul 9, 2013 21:10:42 GMT -6
I think this is what makes coaches special b/c coaching is an art and not a science. IMO their is no definitive answer to this question.
IMHO, really good coaches have the pulse of their team and can "feel" when they need to loosen up and when they need to tighten down. Again, not usually measurable. What is measurable is improvement. Their are a lot of good coaches w/ bad records. Just celebrate little triumphs and hopefully they become bigger and better triumphs.
After being in a similar situation, the best thing we did was start winning. Easier said than done, but my 1st year as a HFC we won one game, but it was the 1st win in 3 years so we celebrated like we had just won the super bowl. The next year we picked up 10 kids. After what seemed to be an eternity (4 years) we made the play offs.
Just celebrate the little things and sell that to whoever will listen and hopefully you can turn the corner down the road.
Good luck to you.
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Post by s73 on Jul 9, 2013 5:43:24 GMT -6
We have done this 6 of the last 8 seasons. We play our best players regardless. IMO you can't coach scared. If he's going to make you better out there on both sides of the ball I think you play him for the GUARANTEED fact that he makes you better rather than the fear that he MIGHT get hurt.
In other words, for us, the chances were 100% we were a better team with him on defense v. the unknown chances that he might get hurt.
Again, just my opinion, but based on talent, we've needed him on defense and he was easily one of our best defenders. For us, it was a no brainer. We treat our QB no different than anyone else. I feel like it gives us a blue collar type of feel to our team and I really believe our QB's wouldn't have it any other way. None of our QB's have ever shown not wanting to be on D.
Again, just my opinion.
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Post by s73 on Jul 2, 2013 18:02:41 GMT -6
Question's a bit vague so I will give you my program philosophy.
1. Develop kids in the weight room so they are strong & physical.
2. Teach fundamentals to the best of our ability.
3. Keep systems simple so we can play fast and mistake free.
4. Get out of the way so we don't screw "em up.
That's how I interpreted the ? anyway.
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Post by s73 on Jul 1, 2013 19:42:42 GMT -6
I was in a similar situation once.
What I did was took my most trusted young guy and told him we would co-coordinate. We collaborated on the game plan, basically playing our base front w/ solid fundamentals 90% of the time so calling D was a no brainer.
If he wanted to stray from the base he would check w/ me before he signaled it in.
That way, I had a say in things but didn't have to worry about signaling the D from down to down in case I needed to talk to a player on the offense.
It worked for us and gave some ownership and motivation to a good young coach. He did a really nice job in this situation & became more independent and trusted the following year.
This is my suggestion.
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Post by s73 on Jul 1, 2013 18:13:33 GMT -6
My guess is that what it evolves to. So you make a decision OK here is how we are approaching this: get the best 11 (12 in our case) on the field vs sticking to the depth chart. The next question becomes how do you determine your "best"? This has major value at least for me. We are a program going into our 3rd year. The school we are at moved locations it went from a population of 500 or so to 1400. We had till this coming year very few football players (community kids with experience) attending the school. So this has been a major initiative for us as a group. Even when I talk to the top team in our Province it is the same thing: how do we determine who are best 12 are and then how do we figure out where to fit the pieces. That is way more important that what scheme you run. Hence why I think the thread morphed. We determine our best through position specific needs first, then, if we run out of that, we have to find the best 11. We need inside backers that can "stuff it" and understand their drops. We need OLB's that can "set the edge" and we need DL that can shed, be disciplined enough to play at the heels and read schemes. We need DB's that can play cover 3 well along w/ a FS that can make plays at or near the LOS. We need all of things if we want to continue playing defense at the level we have become accustomed to over the past few years. Once we have that determined, we have to figure out if one of the guys who's not the best at his spot, is better than the best at another spot in which the best at that particular spot might be a little weak. That's the process we are engaged in right now.
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Post by s73 on Jul 1, 2013 8:42:13 GMT -6
This is one of those years where we have some talent, but it is going to require us to think outside of the box some. We have SOME football players and we have some athletes that play football. Then, we have some kids who flat out stink.
I guess, where I'm coming from is get as many FB players on the field as I can, then get the best remaining athletes on the field.
I just don't want to be the guy who says, well.... we aren't good enough this year, so we'll take our lumps and start developing for next year. I think we can get it done, but it will take some unconventional moves on our part.
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Post by s73 on Jun 30, 2013 21:10:35 GMT -6
as a coach these dilemmas can drive you up the wall because it just does not compute. Had a 2-year varsity started at db (small frame, but athletic) and decided to move him to WDE (he would have been our starting DB had we left him there, but there was nothing that could come close to his contribution at DE) and he shined. We were stocked with 'prototype' DEs, but did not have an output like this kid. Had a short, 1 year varsity LB returning, but 2 decent sized underclassmen LBs who offered more (for what we asked from that position). Moved the short kid to CORNER (still makes me cringe), but he was a rock with 4 Ints that year. Had a kid who came out late, wasn't very football smart, very wirey (he would be a-typical corner/fs)...but where he made the biggest impact was playing WILB in our 3-3. Moved him there and he blew {censored} up for us when our "prototypical" OLB couldn't stop getting personal fouls. Had a 170lbs corner who cleaned 260lbs, squated over 500 and hit like an old Buick. We kept trying to move him to SS/OLB and make it fit (because he was THE prototype for the position)...but he was more comfortable at corner and even though we played C3 every snap and would be "wasted" at corner....he was great on an island and had 6 picks (3 for scores) Had a 300lbs nose tackle (now playing for the Eagles) who we moved to offense because a 165lbs wrestler kid was just more explosive / more upside at nose than him. just get some football players on the field and make plays, whether you call them badgers, rovers, demons, backers or bakers. I am of similar philosophy to this. Last year we had a HUGE kid on our team and periodically got questions of why he was not on the field while I started a 165 pounder at OT. The 165 pounder was tough as nails and doubled as our MLB and broke school record for tackles in a season while anchoring an O that broke all scoring records. The HUGE kid just could not move. I think as HS coaches the typical "prototypes" you hear about in the NFL IMO do not apply. Big guys in the NFL can all move. Few can do so in HS in my experience. I agree whole heartedly w/ your POV. I think we need to find kids that can play regardless of body type, position etc.
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Post by s73 on Jun 30, 2013 19:17:24 GMT -6
Thanks for the replies. I agree w/ most of what was said here. In our particular case, we have many corners but only one that I really trust. None of the others seem to be playmakers. They are great at tackling a kid after the catch but never seem to come down w/ the ball when it's up for grabs.
My thoughts came to moving one of our OLB to the other corner spot b/c one, we have 3 solid OLB and only need 2, and the other reasoning is the kid I'm thinking of is the one that kept coming down w/ the ball (played receiver on scout O) when it was up for grabs. He seems like a playmaker in space but average at OLB.
I figure, it's better to try him there in June/July then August/September.
Thanks again for the replies.
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Post by s73 on Jun 30, 2013 8:24:38 GMT -6
Wondering how many of you try to find your best players per position v. just finding your best 11 FB players and try to make it fit.
For example, we have 2 players in the same spot right now that are both better then some of the #1's in other positions. So I am looking at moving one of them to a spot he's not played before based on his athletic ability. Curious what any of your philosophies are on this.
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Post by s73 on Jun 28, 2013 12:43:27 GMT -6
We just finished camp and me & my staff realized something hilarious today.
Periodically throughout the week we found ourselves barking about this or that like most coaches do when practice doesn't look so hot. Then we get into the office and pi$$ and moan about our shortcomings, or attendance or what have you and how great last years team was and how they would never do this or that and so on.
Then we all kind of collectively realized that we were in the office saying almost the exact same things at this time last summer about the 2012 team. I thought that was pretty funny.
Also, am I the only one that goes off when you have a poor attendance day about how kids need to get their butts here, and then you realize you're going off about it on kids who ARE HERE?
Coaches - a very peculiar species.
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Post by s73 on Jun 26, 2013 7:06:08 GMT -6
I think the Op's situation is the epitome of poor communication by the HC.
As a HC, IMO their is no excuse for a lack of communication. I think it's the job of the HFC to find the best positions for their assistants, and while we don't HAVE to explain to them why they are in the positions we assigned them, if you want them to be effective in those positions you have to develop mutual respect.
I hate "paycheck coaches" but I believe that is exactly what I will get if I treat my coaches as just a guy who earns a check.
On the other hand, if I communicate my thought processes, not b/c I have to (I am still the boss) but b/c I want to, then I believe that creates some loyalty that serves me well when I have to make an unpopular decision from time to time.
On the other hand, the HC may be unaware you want to move up. If this communication has not occurred, I would suggest you speak w/ him personally. He can't fix the things he's unaware of. He deserves the chance to explain himself. I know for me, I would rather know where I stand whether it be good, bad or otherwise, than just speculating and not knowing for sure. If you need to change something, there's only 1 way to find out. Who knows, he may say he wants you their b/c he knows that level is in good hands.
I have jumped to many a conclusion in my day only to find out I was wrong down the road and looked like a complete jacka$$.
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Post by s73 on Jun 24, 2013 17:43:55 GMT -6
But rising to the pinnacle is the tough part. Hence, the legacy. BTW, Lombardi's Packers are only NFL team to win three championships in a row (1965-67) since Cutly Lambeau's 1929-31 Packers did. Chuck Noll and '70s Steelers didn't. Nor did Bill Walsh and 49ers. Or any other coach-team you can name. So, yeah - "Lombardi Trophy" is pretty apt. Well said BLB. In my mind their are only a few individuals in athletic history that are bigger than the sport they participated in. Or, at least transcend it. I would say Ali, Jordan, Babe Ruth and personally I believe Lombardi is in this group. You don't have to say any of their full names for everybody to know exactly who you're talking about.
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Post by s73 on Jun 24, 2013 16:38:00 GMT -6
If the Chiefs had won SBI would the NFL be playing for the Stram Trophy? Like most that have risen to the pinnacle of any profession....timing is everything. But rising to the pinnacle is the tough part. Hence, the legacy.
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Post by s73 on Jun 23, 2013 16:40:17 GMT -6
One thing I did my 1st year taking over is requested the incoming freshman phone numbers from the middle school and then I called every incoming fresh male and notified them about FB and our interest in having as many on the team as possible.
This usually improved our numbers on the frosh. level.
As for the upper levels, in my experience if they're not already committed to the summer their's usually a reason why and can be tough to change their minds w/ anything other than success. Again, in my experience anyway.
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Post by s73 on Jun 19, 2013 15:37:20 GMT -6
Redraider, Just to play a little devil's advocate here, how detailed are your practice plans? One thing that has helped me is writing practice plans that are extremely detailed and lengthy. Then we meet a half hour before every practice and read it together w/ the whole staff. Everybody gets a copy of our whole practice. I read it to them and explain it as if they have no idea what I'm talking about. For example, in indy time I write indy time and how long the segment is, then I write an outline under that w/ multiple bullet points like a check list and even an explanation in the outline of every bullet point. It gets quite time consuming to write up but the pay off is worth it as I rarely have situations like yours. When practice is over, we talk about everything we did that day for about 15-20 minutes and usually things are pretty good. Also, after a short amount of time, many drills start to repeat themselves, as a result, the coaches, get multiple reps at teaching a handful of drills, just like the kids get multiple reps at learning them. They develop a comfort w/ the material as kids and coaches. When your expectations are in black and white it's hard for him to have a case if he says you never told me. I would also suggest you save all of those practice plans so that if you do need to get rid of him he doesn't have a leg to stand on b/c you can pull out the practice plans and say "Here is what you were supposed to be doing". Just a suggestion. After 6 years of doing this w/ my current staff, our 1/2 hour meeting turns into 10 minutes of practice discussion and 20 min. of a "bull" session b/c the coaches know the material by now. It's all review. But it does take some growing pains to get there sometimes IMO. My plans are pretty detailed. I also spent about 60 hours of my free time to make index cards for him to use for coaching point during the indo period etc. I haven't seen one yet. We haven't met before practice because a lot of my offensive staff works and won't get there till about 3:30 (we start at 3:30) so a lot is done by emailing and text. Even the times where we would all get there early and discussed the plans I would get a head nod and yes coach I got it. After practice we sit and watch film from that days practice for about 20-30 and talk about it as a entire staff. I can't wait till we get to that point. Again this is my first year there so I know it will take some time. Coach, if this is the case, then it sounds like he might just be a "paycheck guy". It sounds like you've done your part. I hope he comes around for you. Good luck!
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Post by s73 on Jun 19, 2013 6:13:14 GMT -6
Funny cause I did. And he responded "I don't know" says a lot right? Redraider, Just to play a little devil's advocate here, how detailed are your practice plans? One thing that has helped me is writing practice plans that are extremely detailed and lengthy. Then we meet a half hour before every practice and read it together w/ the whole staff. Everybody gets a copy of our whole practice. I read it to them and explain it as if they have no idea what I'm talking about. For example, in indy time I write indy time and how long the segment is, then I write an outline under that w/ multiple bullet points like a check list and even an explanation in the outline of every bullet point. It gets quite time consuming to write up but the pay off is worth it as I rarely have situations like yours. When practice is over, we talk about everything we did that day for about 15-20 minutes and usually things are pretty good. Also, after a short amount of time, many drills start to repeat themselves, as a result, the coaches, get multiple reps at teaching a handful of drills, just like the kids get multiple reps at learning them. They develop a comfort w/ the material as kids and coaches. When your expectations are in black and white it's hard for him to have a case if he says you never told me. I would also suggest you save all of those practice plans so that if you do need to get rid of him he doesn't have a leg to stand on b/c you can pull out the practice plans and say "Here is what you were supposed to be doing". Just a suggestion. After 6 years of doing this w/ my current staff, our 1/2 hour meeting turns into 10 minutes of practice discussion and 20 min. of a "bull" session b/c the coaches know the material by now. It's all review. But it does take some growing pains to get there sometimes IMO.
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Post by s73 on Jun 18, 2013 6:48:45 GMT -6
The Oline is no place for a wishy washy guy that doesn't understand the game. In my opinion he should be one of the smartest guys you have that understands what you are trying to do. He should practically be a coordinator. Could not agree more. Gotta have your best guy their or do it yourself. Ball carriers is easy, they get to see the play develop in front of them. Outside of fundamentals, not a ton of teaching their. Oline is tough b/c it's all conceptual. They can't see the play. That's why you need a real TEACHER their. IMO they have to be taught the OBJECTIVE of the play to better understand their role since the play is happening behind them. Also, again IMO, once they understand the objective their rules start to make sense to them and they no longer become just words but directions. Once they understand the objective of the play their rules become easier to remember b/c they can now APPLY them rather than just memorize them. IMO this takes some real teaching. Must have a TEACHER their and a little fire and brimstone is always good for this spot, again IMO.
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