Increasing numbers vs. instilling discipline

This doesn't help you right now, but the only solution is start with the younger teams - middle, freshman, jv. You can usually get numbers there.

Got to get the admin on board.

Agree with coachrush......get the kids in the program and instill the discipline. We are losing numbers because we hold the line on kids, similar numbers in terms overall population we are down to 30-35 kids in a program despite winning 75% of our games in the past 10 years and winning league titles and a state title. To some extent you are dealt the hand by your community and school.

I second this.

It's hard to get kids to sign up to work hard and often in an environment that demands constant discipline.  It'll be much more appealing so sell kids on fun and camaraderie and gradually increasing your requirements.

One thing to do while your standards are somewhat lax is to really, really reward and praise the ones who sell out.  Playing time, T-shirts, shout-outs in the school announcements (I'm a big believer in this one), etc.  Show those who aren't as with the program what is available to them if they chose to involve themselves more.

I also think that there's something to getting the kids to recruit friends and classmates because if they do it, you don't owe the kids anything.

Be conscious of what you say to kids as you pitch them because, unlike college coaches who just want the player to sign on a dotted line and get him on campus, if you don't follow through it WILL result in losing trust/credibility in the hallways.  So phrase things along the lines of "I think you'd really be able to help us" or "You'll have a lot of fun with us" (you have lots of control of this), stuff like that.  Especially if you pitch them on fun, point out any moment they appear to be enjoying themselves so that they're aware of it, too.  The more they think they're having fun, shockingly, the more they'll have fun.

I think this is what makes coaches special b/c coaching is an art and not a science. IMO their is no definitive answer to this question. 

IMHO, really good coaches have the pulse of their team and can "feel" when they need to loosen up and when they need to tighten down. Again, not usually measurable. What is measurable is improvement. Their are a lot of good coaches w/ bad records. Just celebrate little triumphs and hopefully they become bigger and better triumphs.

After being in a similar situation, the best thing we did was start winning. Easier said than done, but my 1st year as a HFC we won one game, but it was the 1st win in 3 years so we celebrated like we had just won the super bowl. The next year we picked up 10 kids. After what seemed to be an eternity (4 years) we made the play offs. 

Just celebrate the little things and sell that to whoever will listen and hopefully you can turn the corner down the road. 

Good luck to you.

Be creative in your ways of conditioning and instilling discipline and trust.

We never run for the sake of conditioning. We flip tires, we set up obstacles courses and the kids are always competing against each other.

With the discipline, we break it down into simple things, as easy as putting your right foot on the line for warmups, not fun, but it is easy.

For trust development, we vote for a "leadership council" of 4 to 6 players that the kids think are their leaders. These leaders then pick teams that they will compete with all summer long, everything from races, tires, sled pushes, attendance, increase in lifts, basically anything we can come up with. The leaders make phone calls, drive around and pick kids up and bring them in an effort to win their competitions.

I don't think that hard work alone runs kids off. I think that directed hard work, organized and with a clear purpose, attracts kids. 

We have just been through this we went from no Grade 10 team to our first year with the school and 50 grade 10's on the JR team to a SR team last year that had not had more than 28 to a team with close to 40, to 68 kids dressed at our spring camp for our SR team and a JR team with 60+ names on the roster for the fall.

It is a multiple angle attack here like these guys have stated get admin support, get bodies out, have standards. There is one thing I can add that I think has yet to be touched on:

Build a culture in your school:


I know it is cheesy to post a FNL clip. But in all honesty it's about community football in the school should be more than just the kids who strap it up Friday night it needs to engage the rest of the kids. So make the team different than the rest. If the other teams don't wear jersey's you wear em, if they don't do something special to stick out get your team to stick out. Do things to engage the rest of the school. That includes all the propaganda you can find, it includes feeding that stereotypical image. This will = kids wanting to be a part of it.

We tell our kids this all the time: you are special b/c you play football, we have the best swag, best athletes (out of all the nominees for athlete of the year in our school 80% come from football) and there are a ton of other guys in this school that wish they could play ball but they can't and in some cases won't b/c they are scared. You guys are in the weight-room all year and are the baddest bunch of dudes in this building. Other sports come to watch you, chicks dig you this school supports you. When we tell you that you are special we mean it.

Now all that comes with a grain of salt:
-football is a tough game
-we demand a lot in and out of season
-the rewards are high and great
-we build this culture
-we in essence try to steal any good athlete of other teams the other sports are fine with it (expect rugby but they suck anyway).

Build your culture around an experience.

The short answer is, you have to do things right all the time. We are not going to compromise. Otherwise you are being held hostage and inmates are running the asylum.

HS Football is supposed to teach commitment including self-discipline. Discipline precedes morale.

There are some communities and schools in which the conditions to have a successful (and I don't just mean winning) HS Football program do not exist. Things as they are, and probably have been, will simply not allow the coach to do what is necessary.

You have apparently landed in one of those spots. 15-20 kids 9-12 playing Football in a school of 400 is beyond alarmingly low (our enrollment is 408 and we will be around 55).

As a Football coach, as much as it hurts to say it - if that is the level of interest the school should either try to co-op with a neighboring one if possible or seriously consider dropping the program.

Thanks for all the advice, guys. It's been very helpful, especially about taking me back to the real reason we're here in the first place.

I'm only the OC at this school, so the final strategy on most of this is up to the HC. I don't want to step on his toes, but back when he interviewed me he said that any ideas I had for ways to improve participation, he wanted to hear them. This thread has given me a TON of ideas already. I get the feeling that even with our budget and manpower limitations, there's a lot of simple stuff we're not doing that the other schools do.

Admin seems very supportive--the assistant principal and AD are the last 2 HFCs and the new principal is our other assistant coach's mom, so we'll see how it goes.

It all starts with building strong relationships with your players. Once you establish trust and they know you care about their best interests, they will run through walls. To build trust, there must be a set of standards and accountability. Winning is a byproduct of all of this.

I was in a similar situation about 15 years ago. We took over an inner city program that had only 18 kids in the program and had lost 27 games in a row. They had never had a winning season in football. We established a set of core values, and worked hard each day to get our kids to help our kids to live their lives by these values. Discipline and structure do not have to be a negative. We were passionate and enthusiastic each day. On important aspect was that we didn't allow the mistakes our kids made turn into fatalities. We helped them work through mistakes and grow as people. We set very clear standards for our kids. If they cut class or cut school, there was a consequence. If they were late, their was a consequence. Everyone was expected to be in the weight room after school. Everyone was expected to be in study hall. Our standards were clearly laid out, as were the consequences. We also fundraised constantly, which allowed us to buy brand new gear. That helped give the kids pride in the program.

We made a lot of mistakes, but one thing we didn't do was sacrifice standards for numbers. If kids know you care, and you are going to look out for their best interests, you will see numbers increase. And, you will win more games. This was an inner city school with nearly 4,000 kids and very low expectations. We sold kids in the hallway on our vision. There were days when it felt like we weren't making any headway. Then all of a sudden you have a breakthrough. We didn't have a feeder program. Our kids had open enrollment, so they could go to any one of about 50 high schools within 5 miles of our building. We went out to the middle schools in our neighborhood and did a presentation. We had a couple of free camps for 4th through 8th graders as well. That gave us a chance to build relationships with those kids and their parents.

There is no quick fix. It takes time. We broke that losing streak and went on to enjoy tremendous success. And while that is important, what really matters is the impact the program had on our kids. That is our job as coaches. To have a positive and profound impact on the young people we coach. If you have great energy, passion, and enthusiasm each day, and you believe in the core values you set, kids will be drawn in. They will gravitate towards your program. The key is a willingness to never give in to the acceptance of mediocrity...

I like that system but to play devil's advocate: What if a kid misses due to a special circumstance? Doctors appointment, family emergency, etc? Now obviously you have to give the kids the benefit of the doubt in these circumstances but we also know there are kids who will use this to "beat the system". How do you determine what's fact and fiction?

We tell them up front: 

-if you have a doctors appointment schedule it around practice if it is unavoidable I (as HC) need a note or phone call from your parents. 
-emergency is different kids get 1 emergency freebie from me after that I need to talk with their parents 

The only thing I have said to them in terms of fact and fiction is: 
Fact = I can check the attendance registrar and if you were clocked in at school by your other teachers you have no reason to not be at practice 
Fiction = everything and anything else you tell me 

I should preface this with we have 60+ kids wanting to be an a 50 man roster this helps us, but the standards of attendance have evolved over time. One of the important things was the hook: 
-we had the bulk of them in JR 
-we had a philosophy where we tried to play as many of them as we could in G10 so we had literally 12 new dudes on the field for specials and O and D 
-in SR's that changed but the hook was there. 

We have aprox around 1300-1400 that has grown from 500 3 years ago. In terms of numbers of kids playing:

JR (grade 10's) = averaged 40-50 for the last 2 seasons this season like I had mentioned our JR coach has 60+ students already interested
SR (grade 11-12) = 40 last year this year we are at 52 we had 65 out in equipment at spring

For us it is easier due to #'s. I know when the other coach was there and the school had 500 he was held hostage by the players because he had so few. The flip side of that is we have a program in our city that is one of the top D1 programs and they get like 28 guys out for the team, in part because the HC has some pretty stringent standards.

I am not sure how one navigates the population size dilemma. Hence why this board is so good to bounce ideas around and learn about others experiences.