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Post by RedRaider on Jun 17, 2013 23:42:06 GMT -6
what's up coaches? so I have a dilemma. I am the new oc coming in and I have two young OL coaches and they both have been coaching about 3 years a piece. One has been at the school for 3 years. my problem is that he doesn't understand watching the players tech and defenders instead he watches as a spectator and follows the ball. I have spoke with him about it numerous of times and asked that they be more vocal during indos, and 1 on 1's. They have not done so. I had to raise my voice at one of them today during practice and I believe this should never be done on the field in front of the players but I couldn't take it any longer. How do I continue with this? do i try and hire a new Oline coach this late or just continue to work with him...
also not to mention he doesn't know technique too well either. I have given him dvd's, watched them with him and even taken him to a few colleges to speak with their oline coach and just get an idea of different coaching points. I don't feel I am getting in return someone who wants to coach, feel like he just wants to be there and shoot the ish with the kids. I also dont' like the fact he use to go there and have built a "coach-friendship" relationship with the line.
what would some of you do? The HC knows of this and doesn't say too much.
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Post by fantom on Jun 17, 2013 23:48:57 GMT -6
what's up coaches? so I have a dilemma. I am the new oc coming in and I have two young OL coaches and they both have been coaching about 3 years a piece. One has been at the school for 3 years. my problem is that he doesn't understand watching the players tech and defenders instead he watches as a spectator and follows the ball. I have spoke with him about it numerous of times and asked that they be more vocal during indos, and 1 on 1's. They have not done so. I had to raise my voice at one of them today during practice and I believe this should never be done on the field in front of the players but I couldn't take it any longer. How do I continue with this? do i try and hire a new Oline coach this late or just continue to work with him... also not to mention he doesn't know technique too well either. I have given him dvd's, watched them with him and even taken him to a few colleges to speak with their oline coach and just get an idea of different coaching points. I don't feel I am getting in return someone who wants to coach, feel like he just wants to be there and shoot the ish with the kids. I also dont' like the fact he use to go there and have built a "coach-friendship" relationship with the line. what would some of you do? The HC knows of this and doesn't say too much. If the HC doesn't say much there isn't much that you can do. |
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Post by coachbdud on Jun 17, 2013 23:49:59 GMT -6
sit him down
ask him if he wants to be their coach or their friend?
if he even hesitates so good bye
if he wants to coach then keep working to teach him
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Post by RedRaider on Jun 18, 2013 0:06:24 GMT -6
sit him down ask him if he wants to be their coach or their friend? if he even hesitates so good bye if he wants to coach then keep working to teach him I sat him down today after our Oline meeting and told him just that. I was told by the previous OC that he was in the box last year and would just sit there and not relay any info. Like he seriously has ADHD. I'm going to give him another week and see what happens. Boy is this frustrating to have a coach do this. |
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Post by coach2013 on Jun 18, 2013 2:47:22 GMT -6
Change his assignment. You coach the Oline yourself. Let the young guy coach receivers.
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Post by realdawg on Jun 18, 2013 4:06:17 GMT -6
This is a good idea mentioned above. Also,you said you had 2 OL coaches. You only really complain about 1 of them though. Make the better one the OL coach and tell him he is in charge. Make this other snappy his assistant or TE coach or something.
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Post by coach2013 on Jun 18, 2013 4:07:59 GMT -6
I cant imagine having a weak coach take over my offensive line. No way. Thats like putting Gomer Pyle in charge of national defense.
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Post by hammer66 on Jun 18, 2013 6:16:37 GMT -6
The Oline is no place for a wishy washy guy that doesn't understand the game. In my opinion he should be one of the smartest guys you have that understands what you are trying to do. He should practically be a coordinator.
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Post by CoachCP on Jun 18, 2013 6:31:10 GMT -6
This is how many head coaches "rank" their assistants based off of what I've heard...
1. Opposite Coordinator (if they call a side, if they don't call a side usually this has been the DC)
2. O-line coach
Now, not everyone does that, but based off of several conversations this is how HC's place their assistants. A lot like a lower level guy to be 3rd or 4th on that list if they have a school with size.
So I'd get him out of the OL spot. Coach it yourself. Put him with runningbacks if he likes to watch the play. Coaches that watch the play are useful there b/c his eyes will always be on the runner.
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stu
Sophomore Member
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Post by stu on Jun 18, 2013 6:33:18 GMT -6
not sure how much you can do without the HC's approval. Changing his position or having him coach the TE's would seem to be the best scenario but other than that? IDK.
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Post by s73 on Jun 18, 2013 6:48:45 GMT -6
The Oline is no place for a wishy washy guy that doesn't understand the game. In my opinion he should be one of the smartest guys you have that understands what you are trying to do. He should practically be a coordinator. Could not agree more. Gotta have your best guy their or do it yourself. Ball carriers is easy, they get to see the play develop in front of them. Outside of fundamentals, not a ton of teaching their. Oline is tough b/c it's all conceptual. They can't see the play. That's why you need a real TEACHER their. IMO they have to be taught the OBJECTIVE of the play to better understand their role since the play is happening behind them. Also, again IMO, once they understand the objective their rules start to make sense to them and they no longer become just words but directions. Once they understand the objective of the play their rules become easier to remember b/c they can now APPLY them rather than just memorize them. IMO this takes some real teaching. Must have a TEACHER their and a little fire and brimstone is always good for this spot, again IMO. |
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Post by wingtol on Jun 18, 2013 7:45:12 GMT -6
Had an veteran coach tell me when I was still a young pup "The two most important coaches in HS are your OL and DB coaches". If your OL guy isn't getting it done then you need to step in. Not sure if you have a position or not but if you don't I would just make myself very viable during OL indy and make sure it was getting done the right way.
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Post by RedRaider on Jun 18, 2013 9:16:37 GMT -6
Thx for all the great info. I can't agree more about the Oline guy being the smartest and better coach on the field.
I am the Wr coach as well and we are a spread team as mentioned. I've been fortunate to work with a Oline coach from my previous stop and I coach Wr there. I'm not a Oline guru but I'm just one of those guys who pays CLOSE attention to detail, I wish he was the same. My other slot Wr coach just got cleared this am so I will be comfortable to leave my Wr with him and take over the Oline.
The second online guy I don't have much problems with just that he wasn't there much due to a very ill family member who just passed. But he was a DL coach previous and he's the fire guy thats why i like him but he also understands how oline works just from talking with him. he has the 3 interior and the slappy has the tackles. Pretty simple right? .....guess not.
Seems as though much of you agree on taking over that role. Thanks!!
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Post by wingtol on Jun 18, 2013 10:53:07 GMT -6
Just read your other post and see your coming back from college coaching to HS. Just try and remember too that your not dealing with professional coaches any more. Sometimes it is what it is as bad as that sounds in HS. If you coached in college I would think you know what is up so just take over the OL and send the other guy somewhere else.
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Post by coachcb on Jun 18, 2013 11:25:06 GMT -6
One of your best coaches needs to be on the OL so I would have a conversation with the HC about moving him to another position and getting a quality coach in there.
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Post by coachseth on Jun 18, 2013 12:17:56 GMT -6
I remember being a young coach...
Technically I'm still a young coach, but I remember being a YOUNGER coach.
I started when I was 19, and instead of people showing me how they wanted things done they would just take over the position and move me somewhere else. Word of advice, don't do that to young coaches, it will really mess with their state of mind. The best way to reach a young coach is to straight up be real with them. Tell them if they don't clean it up, they're going to be looking at another coaching job soon.
I agree on the points about watching DVDs with him, also send him to youtube, and in the offseason drag him to clinics. I started going to clinics right after I started coaching, and I will swear to this day it is the only thing that opened my eyes. And don't just take him to one, for example I live in Nashville so yearly I go to the Glazier clinic in Nashville, the one in Atlanta, and the one in Indianapolis. You meet a lot of really smart coaches, and you also learn how they do things different.
Don't give up on him, if he really wants to coach he will adapt and overcome.
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Post by brophy on Jun 18, 2013 12:42:05 GMT -6
best case scenario, he WANTS to coach the guys but is not secure enough in his knowledge or what to say (around you). You could say, "we need to go over the footwork on 3-step. Let's go through this real quick". Grab a freshman and have him run the drill with coaching points. Play dumb, let him run (don't correct him) then see where he is at. I would even go so far as to act stupid and set him up with "Coach needs us to get Johnny Slapdick up to speed on this technique. Lets go coach him up!" and restrain yourself from taking over the drill.
You could go as far as to video the session....and review the KID afterwards [is the kid improving based on this instruction?]. That way, the two of you would get together and you would correct / make comments about the KID (when in reality, you're commenting on his coaching points). This way, he can feel empowered, not look stupid and also see the correlation in being demonstrative in drills.
worst case, he is a lazy POS - get rid of him. Tell him to fill water bottles or something...enough to make him complain to the HC. When he complains, you can open the gauntlet with the "you want to coach? COACH!". He'll either step up or quit.
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Post by coachcb on Jun 18, 2013 13:20:14 GMT -6
I remember being a young coach... Technically I'm still a young coach, but I remember being a YOUNGER coach. I started when I was 19, and instead of people showing me how they wanted things done they would just take over the position and move me somewhere else. Word of advice, don't do that to young coaches, it will really mess with their state of mind. The best way to reach a young coach is to straight up be real with them. Tell them if they don't clean it up, they're going to be looking at another coaching job soon. I agree on the points about watching DVDs with him, also send him to youtube, and in the offseason drag him to clinics. I started going to clinics right after I started coaching, and I will swear to this day it is the only thing that opened my eyes. And don't just take him to one, for example I live in Nashville so yearly I go to the Glazier clinic in Nashville, the one in Atlanta, and the one in Indianapolis. You meet a lot of really smart coaches, and you also learn how they do things different. Don't give up on him, if he really wants to coach he will adapt and overcome. I agree with this but it's a two way street. I've been an HC at all three levels of the game (youth, MS, HS) and have worked with guys with a wife range of experience and many different personalities. I have gone above and beyond to make sure the assistants know what to do, how I need it done, what drills to use, what resources we have available (and go through them with them) etc. etc. But I won't hesitate to take a position over or get rid of them. I had two coaches like that last year. When I go through all of the 3 step footwork, throwing/catching nechanics with the QB and WR coaches, watch videos, explain how it needs to be done, why it needs to be done, it had needs to be coached. When the ball hits the ground 80% of the time after two weeks and repeated conversations, we have a serious problem. |
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Post by rsmith627 on Jun 18, 2013 15:12:47 GMT -6
Keep coaching him up like you have been. If you doesn't start to get it, you diminish his role until he quits, or is ready to be a coach.
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zsilver
Sophomore Member
Posts: 136
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Post by zsilver on Jun 18, 2013 18:26:38 GMT -6
If the "other" OL coach is making it to practice, maybe make him the OL coach and the KID "assistant OL in charge of tackles". Then the KID will have two coaches over him that are responsible for him to get the job done, and at least if the OL coach is as good as you say he is, he'll notice it too, and be your advocate if you do have to go to the HC about a change.
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Post by coach2013 on Jun 18, 2013 18:34:15 GMT -6
Patience with coaching staff who fail in their responsibilities is just one of the nails HCs drive into their own career coffins. Administrators do not care if you have weak assistants, nor do school boards - if they are weak, its your fault.
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Post by emptybackfield on Jun 18, 2013 18:35:38 GMT -6
you have firing/hiring power as the OC?
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 18, 2013 19:52:18 GMT -6
Just read your other post and see your coming back from college coaching to HS. Just try and remember too that your not dealing with professional coaches any more. Sometimes it is what it is as bad as that sounds in HS. If you coached in college I would think you know what is up so just take over the OL and send the other guy somewhere else. This is a great point. At many if not the majority of colleges and professional jobs, you have coaches whose sole source of income (and therefore sole task) is coaching. That is just not the case at the HS, JR high, or younger levels, so while there are definitely lots of "professional" coaches at the HS level, there are also a great deal of guys who may be good guys, but aren't "Professional" when it comes to being a coach. More like a fan of the sport with a whistle. |
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Post by Scott Bronkema on Jun 18, 2013 20:00:09 GMT -6
Do what you do with anybody that can't cut it on offense, send him to defense.
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Post by RedRaider on Jun 18, 2013 22:47:06 GMT -6
He is the tackles coach which is why idk what's so hard. Today I was with the OL and saw what he was teaching. Not anything I told him. Told him to use specific verbiage "high track, low track" etc and during the review period I asked the line did they go over this and he said no coach. Should have went through this during last part of indo. I just took over and told him to listen to my coachin points and focus on the smallest detail.
During team he was a bit better. Just gonna take a lot of time to teach him.
Empty backfield, yes I have the ability to hire/fire as the OC. The HC has that much trust in me. Which I appreciate.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 18, 2013 23:06:10 GMT -6
Red--did you ask him (in office, not on field) "Why?" to any of the things you mentioned didn't get done?
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Post by RedRaider on Jun 18, 2013 23:56:38 GMT -6
Funny cause I did. And he responded "I don't know" says a lot right?
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Post by coachbdud on Jun 19, 2013 1:00:19 GMT -6
Funny cause I did. And he responded "I don't know" says a lot right? I dont know as in " I dont know how to teach that or what you want me to teach"... could be that he doesn't it himself so he doesn't feel comfortable teaching it... or it could be I dont know as in " I don't know how I didn't go over it in Indy, I guess I lost track of time" gotta hate those young coaches  |
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coachmitts
Sophomore Member
Always compete
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Post by coachmitts on Jun 19, 2013 1:21:50 GMT -6
As a younger coach, 3 at MS and entering third at HS, I see where the learning curve may be troubling for a younger coach. But we have all been there. Coaches who WANT to coach, take the time to learn the game from anywhere they can.
The staff I am currently in is very interesting to me from a younger wanting to learn coach viewpoint. My self and one other coach (younger then me) try to get our hands on anything and everything we can to learn. We have attended clinics, shared books and DVDs, and have killed some 6 packs talking about anything football. But the rest of the staff, HC included, rarely does any type of reading or clinics to get better. The HC rereads his offensive books, but the rest really seem ok with not wanting to learn other things or better themselves. Don't know if other staffs are like that, but I would tend not to think so. (Sorry about the rant)
If he keeps saying I don't know to everything, I would say you don't know of he can still coach.
Just my thought. If they don't want or know why they are there... Why let them be there?
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Post by s73 on Jun 19, 2013 6:13:14 GMT -6
Funny cause I did. And he responded "I don't know" says a lot right? Redraider, Just to play a little devil's advocate here, how detailed are your practice plans? One thing that has helped me is writing practice plans that are extremely detailed and lengthy. Then we meet a half hour before every practice and read it together w/ the whole staff. Everybody gets a copy of our whole practice. I read it to them and explain it as if they have no idea what I'm talking about. For example, in indy time I write indy time and how long the segment is, then I write an outline under that w/ multiple bullet points like a check list and even an explanation in the outline of every bullet point. It gets quite time consuming to write up but the pay off is worth it as I rarely have situations like yours. When practice is over, we talk about everything we did that day for about 15-20 minutes and usually things are pretty good. Also, after a short amount of time, many drills start to repeat themselves, as a result, the coaches, get multiple reps at teaching a handful of drills, just like the kids get multiple reps at learning them. They develop a comfort w/ the material as kids and coaches. When your expectations are in black and white it's hard for him to have a case if he says you never told me. I would also suggest you save all of those practice plans so that if you do need to get rid of him he doesn't have a leg to stand on b/c you can pull out the practice plans and say "Here is what you were supposed to be doing". Just a suggestion. After 6 years of doing this w/ my current staff, our 1/2 hour meeting turns into 10 minutes of practice discussion and 20 min. of a "bull" session b/c the coaches know the material by now. It's all review. But it does take some growing pains to get there sometimes IMO. |
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