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Post by silkyice on Apr 26, 2023 17:32:38 GMT -6
Being Dramatic here, but the whole Colorado thing could hinge on one game or one injury or one play or one blown call.
Again being dramatic, but if Coach Prime can build ANY momentum, he could make them great and for real. (That could also mean that he goes to a much bigger program). But if they can't get going this year, that will make getting going the next year tougher, and if they don't get going by then, they probably won't get going.
One big victory because of a blown call in their favor or injury to their opponent's best player or a lucky bounce could literally propel them into a legit power in a few years. Or one key injury to them or blown call against them or unlucky bounce could just squash them.
I really think it could go either way and I really think that luck (good or bad) could have some part in it.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 26, 2023 18:02:30 GMT -6
I doubt Deion’s X’s and O’s acumen is as good as many high school coaches. I think he would be terrible as a coordinator. 1) You base this on....? Wasn't he the OC of his son's HS as they won multiple state titles. I will be honest, I think a lot of people form an opinion because he is brash and loud. Those who work with him have always said his work ethic and attention to detail is spectacular. |
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Post by CS on Apr 26, 2023 18:16:38 GMT -6
I doubt Deion’s X’s and O’s acumen is as good as many high school coaches. I think he would be terrible as a coordinator. 1) You base this on....? Wasn't he the OC of his son's HS as they won multiple state titles. I will be honest, I think a lot of people form an opinion because he is brash and loud. Those who work with him have always said his work ethic and attention to detail is spectacular. Bobby Bowden has said the same. Pretty sure he knows what he’s doing |
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Post by jg78 on Apr 26, 2023 18:39:27 GMT -6
His career prime was 30 years ago when two-back, under center offenses were winning Super Bowls. His job was basically to lock down one guy and he was able to do so mainly because of superior speed and athleticism.
He hasn’t coached very long, and he’s where he is because of his image and the success of his playing career, not his coaching career. Do I think a lot of high school coaches around the country are more knowledgeable than Deion? Probably so. (But I also think HS coaches are underrated in general.) If I were a HC at an Alabama or Georgia or USC or Florida and could hire Deion to be my OC or DC, would I? No. And definitely not if his name were Ben Smith instead of Deion Sanders.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 26, 2023 19:14:50 GMT -6
His career prime was 30 years ago when two-back, under center offenses were winning Super Bowls. His job was basically to lock down one guy and he was able to do so mainly because of superior speed and athleticism. By this logic, how bad must all of us HS coaches be, whose career primes were against pure crap competition and likely similar styles? Also, apparently one can't be knowledgeable of anything outside of what their duty assignment was when they were playing? [/coach] He hasn’t coached very long, and he’s where he is because of his image and the success of his playing career, not his coaching career. Do I think a lot of high school coaches around the country are more knowledgeable than Deion? Probably so. (But I also think HS coaches are underrated in general.) If I were a HC at an Alabama or Georgia or USC or Florida and could hire Deion to be my OC or DC, would I? No. And definitely not if his name were Ben Smith instead of Deion Sanders.[/quote] His image and success may have provided opportunities that others didn't have, but the man has made the most of them. |
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Post by olliebaba14 on Apr 26, 2023 20:19:05 GMT -6
How in the world did you not realize that 30 years ago when he was a player? Because I wasn’t born yet LOL  |
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Post by larrymoe on Apr 26, 2023 20:20:25 GMT -6
How in the world did you not realize that 30 years ago when he was a player? Because I wasn’t born yet LOL Well, that's a legitimate excuse I suppose. |
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Post by jg78 on Apr 26, 2023 20:22:17 GMT -6
Most of us went straight into coaching and evolved with the times. If you coached 30 years ago and stepped into a time machine into today’s game, you would be at a disadvantage.
As a coach?
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Post by coachdmyers on Apr 27, 2023 9:36:21 GMT -6
This might be a small thing to some, but if you go to their website and check out the roster, bios, etc, the only coach who has one is Deion. No other staff. I think 8 kids have their numbers listed, many don't have bios either.
By comparison, Nebraska has all of their coaches with bios.
To me, this seems like an operations issue, which in theory the HC would ultimately be in charge of.
Again, maybe it's not all that important, but seems like an odd thing to not have done. Should just require directing staff to take care of it?
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Post by veerwego on Apr 27, 2023 9:44:28 GMT -6
This might be a small thing to some, but if you go to their website and check out the roster, bios, etc, the only coach who has one is Deion. No other staff. I think 8 kids have their numbers listed, many don't have bios either. By comparison, Nebraska has all of their coaches with bios. To me, this seems like an operations issue, which in theory the HC would ultimately be in charge of. Again, maybe it's not all that important, but seems like an odd thing to not have done. Should just require directing staff to take care of it? Wouldn't be surprised if Deion couldn't care less about websites due to Social Media, where he can connect with recruits and boosters/sponsor. |
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Post by larrymoe on Apr 27, 2023 10:32:40 GMT -6
This might be a small thing to some, but if you go to their website and check out the roster, bios, etc, the only coach who has one is Deion. No other staff. I think 8 kids have their numbers listed, many don't have bios either. By comparison, Nebraska has all of their coaches with bios. To me, this seems like an operations issue, which in theory the HC would ultimately be in charge of. Again, maybe it's not all that important, but seems like an odd thing to not have done. Should just require directing staff to take care of it? Wouldn't be surprised if Deion couldn't care less about websites due to Social Media, where he can connect with recruits and boosters/sponsor. Why would any D1 coach care about what their team website looks like? Does anyone even think Nick Saban has ever looked at his website? |
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Post by rsmith627 on Apr 27, 2023 10:37:33 GMT -6
Wouldn't be surprised if Deion couldn't care less about websites due to Social Media, where he can connect with recruits and boosters/sponsor. Why would any D1 coach care about what their team website looks like? Does anyone even think Nick Saban has ever looked at his website? Does anyone look at the websites? I have never been on the website of any of my favorite teams. I'd wager most fans aren't visiting, let alone Saban lol |
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Post by larrymoe on Apr 27, 2023 10:41:14 GMT -6
Why would any D1 coach care about what their team website looks like? Does anyone even think Nick Saban has ever looked at his website? Does anyone look at the websites? I have never been on the website of any of my favorite teams. I'd wager most fans aren't visiting, let alone Saban lol I do just to check times of games on their schedules and occasionally to see where coaches I have met currently are and to see where some coaches come from. Other than that, no, not at all. Then again, I never had a Facebook, website, Instagram or Twitter (I did have a team affiliated Twitter for one year) for any teams I was HC of. |
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Post by rsmith627 on Apr 27, 2023 10:44:10 GMT -6
Does anyone look at the websites? I have never been on the website of any of my favorite teams. I'd wager most fans aren't visiting, let alone Saban lol I do just to check times of games on their schedules and occasionally to see where coaches I have met currently are and to see where some coaches come from. Other than that, no, not at all. Then again, I never had a Facebook, website, Instagram or Twitter (I did have a team affiliated Twitter for one year) for any teams I was HC of. Makes sense. I guess I probably have gone there to buy tickets or something but that's all I can really think of. I'm not clicking around into coaches and bios really. |
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Post by larrymoe on Apr 27, 2023 10:59:22 GMT -6
I do just to check times of games on their schedules and occasionally to see where coaches I have met currently are and to see where some coaches come from. Other than that, no, not at all. Then again, I never had a Facebook, website, Instagram or Twitter (I did have a team affiliated Twitter for one year) for any teams I was HC of. Makes sense. I guess I probably have gone there to buy tickets or something but that's all I can really think of. I'm not clicking around into coaches and bios really. This made me look at Marshall's website as their new TEs coach was an assistant coach for me for 2 years while he was in college. Their website does not have any info on him or any of their new hires. |
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Post by silkyice on Apr 27, 2023 11:30:30 GMT -6
Wouldn't be surprised if Deion couldn't care less about websites due to Social Media, where he can connect with recruits and boosters/sponsor. Why would any D1 coach care about what their team website looks like? Does anyone even think Nick Saban has ever looked at his website? I have no idea if Saban has ever looked at his website. But I guarantee you that Saban wants every single detail run correctly. Every single one. And will make sure that every single one is done the right and best way. That is just who Nick Saban is. I am pulling for Coach Prime and actually think he has a chance of doing great things. But, it is troubling (and most likely telling) that Colorado’s website is in the condition described. |
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Post by veerwego on Apr 27, 2023 12:03:11 GMT -6
Why would any D1 coach care about what their team website looks like? Does anyone even think Nick Saban has ever looked at his website? I have no idea if Saban has ever looked at his website. But I guarantee you that Saban wants every single detail run correctly. Every single one. And will make sure that every single one is done the right and best way. That is just who Nick Saban is. I am pulling for Coach Prime and actually think he has a chance of doing great things. But, it is troubling (and most likely telling) that Colorado’s website is in the condition described. I think you are right too, but maybe it is an institutional issue and Coach has bigger fish to fry at this point. |
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Post by coachdmyers on Apr 27, 2023 12:49:55 GMT -6
Why would any D1 coach care about what their team website looks like? Does anyone even think Nick Saban has ever looked at his website? I have no idea if Saban has ever looked at his website. But I guarantee you that Saban wants every single detail run correctly. Every single one. And will make sure that every single one is done the right and best way. That is just who Nick Saban is. I am pulling for Coach Prime and actually think he has a chance of doing great things. But, it is troubling (and most likely telling) that Colorado’s website is in the condition described. This is what I was getting at. It's one of the details. That said, I've been on team websites to get coach emails or contact info to find someone to reach out to about recruiting. |
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mc140
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Post by mc140 on Apr 28, 2023 21:55:43 GMT -6
The roster purge will either make him a genius or a moron. I'm teetering towards the latter but we'll see.
He says the quiet parts out loud and doesn't pretend he is not dumping players. He told them what he was going to do in his first meeting in front of cameras. I do think he has gone too far, as you need scout team guys. However, I saw a story about how very few Colorado players who have entered the portal have found D1 schools and not many more have found 1aa schools. Just goes to show how low the talent level truly was. If you are a real power 5 scholarship player, at a minimum a 1aa should have interest.
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Post by tripsclosed on Apr 28, 2023 22:30:22 GMT -6
The roster purge will either make him a genius or a moron. I'm teetering towards the latter but we'll see.
He says the quiet parts out loud and doesn't pretend he is not dumping players. He told them what he was going to do in his first meeting in front of cameras. I do think he has gone too far, as you need scout team guys. However, I saw a story about how very few Colorado players who have entered the portal have found D1 schools and not many more have found 1aa schools. Just goes to show how low the talent level truly was. If you are a real power 5 scholarship player, at a minimum a 1aa should have interest.
Yeah that's the one thing I keep coming back to and holding out hope on with this, was that first meeting he had with the team that all the world got to see, where he clearly said hey some of you guys probably ain't gonna be here much longer |
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 29, 2023 17:06:34 GMT -6
Most of us went straight into coaching and evolved with the times. If you coached 30 years ago and stepped into a time machine into today’s game, you would be at a disadvantage. As a coach? Deion has been connected to the game the entire time, and has been coaching specifically the last several years. Yes, he has been quite successful as a coach. At JSU he took a program that hadn't won more than 5 games in a season in over a decade to back to back double digit win seasons for the first time in history, scoring the most points in school history, having the highest positive point differential in school history etc. Will he be successful at CU? I don't know. Between Dan Hawkins, Jon Embree, Mike MacIntyre, Mel Tucker and Karl Dorrell, none have a plus .500 record at CU and only one of those coaches managed a winning season since 2005 (2 if you count the 6 game Covid season) |
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Post by coachd5085 on May 21, 2023 19:02:01 GMT -6
The roster purge will either make him a genius or a moron. I'm teetering towards the latter but we'll see. Was just listening to a podcast and heard something that made me revisit this thread. The roster that he turned over had a point differential of -29.1points per game. Lest someone think that stat was skewed by just a few big blowouts-- in 10 of their 11 losses they lost by 23 or more points. They only scored more than 21 points in ONE game and were held to less than 2 touchdowns in 50% of their games. They gave up 38 or more points in all 11 losses. That roster produced one of the worst results in Power 5 schools this century. Why not turn over the roster immediately? Take advantage of the momentum and use the grace period that will be given. |
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Post by silkyice on May 22, 2023 17:25:13 GMT -6
The roster purge will either make him a genius or a moron. I'm teetering towards the latter but we'll see. Was just listening to a podcast and heard something that made me revisit this thread. The roster that he turned over had a point differential of -29.1points per game. Lest someone think that stat was skewed by just a few big blowouts-- in 10 of their 11 losses they lost by 23 or more points. They only scored more than 21 points in ONE game and were held to less than 2 touchdowns in 50% of their games. They gave up 38 or more points in all 11 losses. That roster produced one of the worst results in Power 5 schools this century. Why not turn over the roster immediately? Take advantage of the momentum and use the grace period that will be given. Agree And if you really think about it, that roster is even worse than their stats. Meaning, they got no one's best game. They started going against subs in the second half of many games and still had awful stats. |
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Post by bulldogsdc on May 23, 2023 9:24:59 GMT -6
Looks like they have 11 OL on the roster right now.
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CoachK
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Post by CoachK on May 25, 2023 12:52:31 GMT -6
I doubt Deion’s X’s and O’s acumen is as good as many high school coaches. I think he would be terrible as a coordinator. 1) You base this on....? Wasn't he the OC of his son's HS as they won multiple state titles. I will be honest, I think a lot of people form an opinion because he is brash and loud. Those who work with him have always said his work ethic and attention to detail is spectacular. He is so football smart it's insane. He always has been. Every single on of those guys that plays at that singular, all-timer level is. You have to be.
Guys like Deion and Randy Moss are obviously freakish athletes but ask anybody about either of them and they'll tell you how football smart they are. It doesn't always translate to coaching, necessarily, but Deion hasn't shown anything to say he isn't good at what he does.
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Post by blb on May 25, 2023 13:14:01 GMT -6
1) You base this on....? Wasn't he the OC of his son's HS as they won multiple state titles. I will be honest, I think a lot of people form an opinion because he is brash and loud. Those who work with him have always said his work ethic and attention to detail is spectacular. He is so football smart it's insane. He always has been. Every single on of those guys that plays at that singular, all-timer level is. You have to be.
Guys like Deion and Randy Moss are obviously freakish athletes but ask anybody about either of them and they'll tell you how football smart they are. It doesn't always translate to coaching, necessarily, but Deion hasn't shown anything to say he isn't good at what he does.
History shows - not just in Football, but all sports - the best players usually don't make the best coaches or managers. Sanders may prove to be the exception. |
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Post by coachd5085 on May 25, 2023 14:24:29 GMT -6
He is so football smart it's insane. He always has been. Every single on of those guys that plays at that singular, all-timer level is. You have to be.
Guys like Deion and Randy Moss are obviously freakish athletes but ask anybody about either of them and they'll tell you how football smart they are. It doesn't always translate to coaching, necessarily, but Deion hasn't shown anything to say he isn't good at what he does.
History shows - not just in Football, but all sports - the best players usually don't make the best coaches or managers. Sanders may prove to be the exception. Yes- and the generally accepted "go to" superficial reasoning to explain that usually involves the star player turned coach not being able to relate to lesser gifted players. Or something along those lines. But as I was reading this, it occurred to me that may not be the case at all. I think most would agree that being a "great" coach/manager definitely has a "right place right time" factor to it. What is Belichickc's legacy if Dwight Clark and Chris Palmer think Brady is the guy over Spergon Wynn? How does one analyze the coaching "greatness" of Phil Jackson without taking into consideration he got to coach Jordan/Pippen in their prime as well as Shaq/Kobe? What does one think of Joe Torre if he stays out of baseball after being fired by St. Louis? Look at Joe Gibbs? His second act certainly wasn't HOF worthy. So, given that right place right time is a factor, and given that the percentage of coaches who were NOT great players is vastly greater than the percentage of great players who go into coaching..could it just be a math thing? |
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Post by carookie on May 25, 2023 15:16:22 GMT -6
History shows - not just in Football, but all sports - the best players usually don't make the best coaches or managers. Sanders may prove to be the exception. Yes- and the generally accepted "go to" superficial reasoning to explain that usually involves the star player turned coach not being able to relate to lesser gifted players. Or something along those lines. But as I was reading this, it occurred to me that may not be the case at all. I think most would agree that being a "great" coach/manager definitely has a "right place right time" factor to it. What is Belichickc's legacy if Dwight Clark and Chris Palmer think Brady is the guy over Spergon Wynn? How does one analyze the coaching "greatness" of Phil Jackson without taking into consideration he got to coach Jordan/Pippen in their prime as well as Shaq/Kobe? What does one think of Joe Torre if he stays out of baseball after being fired by St. Louis? Look at Joe Gibbs? His second act certainly wasn't HOF worthy. So, given that right place right time is a factor, and given that the percentage of coaches who were NOT great players is vastly greater than the percentage of great players who go into coaching..could it just be a math thing? That was my thought as well. If only 1-2% of players are thought of as being 'the best' than odds are most of the coaches arent gonna come from that crop. I actually think a big reason for this line of thinking, at least at the upper levels, is that while most of the best players are playing (continuing their playing careers), those who end up being successful coaches are busy learning to coach (ie working their way up the GA pipeline grinding away and learning the ropes). Very little of being a successful coach is knowledge of technique, or in game strategy. Organization skills, communication, management, etc all play a large role in being successful as a coach. And while players are having those skills modeled to the by coaches, they are not really being taught how to preform those tasks. I think this is why we see somewhat of a disconnect when former NFL players are not getting HC gigs at a rate they would like. While you were busy playing, the Sean McVays of the world were learning how to coach. |
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Post by blb on May 25, 2023 15:27:52 GMT -6
So, given that right place right time is a factor, and given that the percentage of coaches who were NOT great players is vastly greater than the percentage of great players who go into coaching..could it just be a math thing? You're saying the coach-manager with the best players ("right place-right time") usually wins? Who'da thunk it? As for being a "math thing" - hmm, could be. |
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Post by coachd5085 on May 25, 2023 16:33:30 GMT -6
So, given that right place right time is a factor, and given that the percentage of coaches who were NOT great players is vastly greater than the percentage of great players who go into coaching..could it just be a math thing? You're saying the coach-manager with the best players ("right place-right time") usually wins? Who'da thunk it? As for being a "math thing" - hmm, could be. Right place-right time doesn't necessarily mean the best players. It means the right mixture of events (players, management, coaching, other...) It could mean Drew Brees with Sean Payton in New Orleans instead of at Miami. I may be in the minority, but I don't think he would have had the same success there with Nick Saban/anyone else that he did with Payton. It could mean Frank Solich taking over at a time when fan pressure/entertainment value was changing. It could mean any number of different converging events. My point was just that maybe the fact that to be considered one of the "best" coaches is interdependent on many events mathematically it isn't going to occur often. Then throw in some more probability factors such as the vast majority of coaches were not considered the best players, and now you have a tiny percentage of coaches with the opportunity to land in a rare "right place, right time" situation. Maybe that math has something to do with it as opposed to just the standard "can't relate to average players" reasoning. |
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