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Post by brophy on Sept 14, 2017 13:31:14 GMT -6
What should Laquan Macdonald been taught that would have prevented the police from killing him and attempting to cover up the incident? respectfully, while I think you have an entirely valid point and question on this. Is that discussion vital/crucial to the point of High School Teams deviating pre-game traditions in the effort to 'protest'? Just a question, with the hopes of steering our talk back to football program
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Post by brophy on Sept 14, 2017 13:29:12 GMT -6
the accident of birth puts them on a path to success that has substantially fewer obstacles than others have to overcome. people got in a lot of trouble in the 80s for suggesting that some things just come easier because of their genetic makeup (" that player is just a natural athlete", he's was " born to run like the wind"). These statements discounted the fact that guys like Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Warren Moon, while great athletes actually didn't fall out of bed and became great. Those guys were magnificent competitive athletes because they worked harder than their competitors and put in countless hours to be the best. The notion that people with fair skin in America fall out of bed into a trust fund and a Master's Degree is just as absurd (" All white people are George W. Bush"). Making these kind of false equivocations to prop up a ridiculous zero-accountability safe zone is toxic. Both for discussion and for shaping people's truthful perspective on reality For the record, my ex-wife is black. I am second generation Polish/Irish immigrants. So technically, my biological son is "black". I'll be sure to let him know that he's been handicapped by society so he shouldn't try to be successful because he's doesn't have to be accountable to how his life turns out. What does that mean? It means I've heard this mularky for 30 years...anyone bringing up "race", regardless of perspective, is trying to sell you something and it isn't the truth. Everyone is accountable for their own lot in life. If you're smart enough to build a support system, improve yourself daily and use financial discipline...that isn't "privilege", it's called "achievement". Recognizing achievement, particularly when you aren't achieving anything yourself, can be a bitter pill to swallow. SELF-EFFICACY
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Post by brophy on Sept 14, 2017 13:17:11 GMT -6
]This is a flat-out racist post. which part? help us understand
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Post by brophy on Sept 14, 2017 11:41:27 GMT -6
My main motivation is seeing a video where the brother of a player I coached get gunned down with 7 shots while wearing seatbelt, with his gf's daughter in the back seat that by an act of God's good grace was not harmed. I am a passionate person, but that the cop got away with that and similar acts have been told to us by African Americans since the 1970's but is showing up on the news first after cell phone cameras started recording it. The facts are there but us as a society have been blind to it since the LA riots that was started by a police wrongfully gunning down an African American woman. I believe it is time to listen, not judge and say what to do or not to do. We have done it and it led us here boo hoo. people die everyday Again, are you protesting Law Enforcement policies? Law Enforcement oversight? or some plight of dark skinned Americans? If the former, okay....but that is a ridiculously small portion of actual incidents. If the latter, then be about the self-genocide in every American city. Black males 16-35 are wiping each other out in record numbers every week with violence. A large part of that stems from the fact that we don't reinforce the message that the only way to get ahead in America is through 1) education 2) employment 3) sound financial decisions. That metric is cold, but true of anyone regardless of any demographic they fit in. You can certainly have those opinions or beliefs, but compelling the team to participate (or allowing it) is what is in question.
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Post by brophy on Sept 14, 2017 11:30:53 GMT -6
If you really don't get why it is exponentially easier for some people (especially those who come from white, middle class families) to suck it up and pull themselves up then educate us all with actual facts, not your hysteria. You're saying that black people in America are doomed for failure, that they can't achieve anything on their own. That is an insultingly patronizing bigoted position. That, if someone were in poverty, they could work themselves out of it if they 1) pursue an education (not just going school) that leads to a skill 2) act financially responsible 3) contribute to society.....UNLESS THEY WERE BLACK SKIN TONED? and THIS....this is what you want your kids motivated to protest an anthem, pre-game ceremony, prayer, team dinner, etc because muh struggle? My quarterback demands we all wear black armbands to raise awareness against Joseph Kony's mercenary army
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Post by brophy on Sept 14, 2017 11:06:33 GMT -6
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Post by brophy on Sept 14, 2017 11:03:30 GMT -6
for some white guy to claim that people just need to suck it up and pull themselves up by their own bootstraps because he has heroically and single-handedly saved some black kid from generational poverty and violence is the height of arrogance and audacity. I guess I don't understand what this means. Are you assuming what "race" I am? I'm not sure what you're insinuating, but your ad hominem is clear. IMO its pretty racist to say that anyone with dark skin in America is biologically predisposed for a life of poverty, which from what I'm reading above, is what you're saying. how is this NOT the answer to life? people just need to suck it up and pull themselves up by their own.... are you saying that people shouldn't be responsible for their own lot in life? I'm not suggesting you or coachswede are wrong to feel the way you do or believe what you do. I'm merely questioning motivations and perceptions that lead to those motivations. If you're advocating Law Enforcement reform, then be about that. Is that what teenagers are protesting our pre-game anthem for? Kids feel compelled to disrespect a tradition (it could be team prayer or any other tradition) because they want everyone in attendance to demand that police across the country change the way they pull over drivers? If you're ham-fisting Law Enforcement with other disjointed emotional arguments, I think thats where justification falls apart for kids. Were you on fire about using your football teams for a political statement in 2007? If not, what changed? Certainly the only thing different now is instant social media that can sweep people up into hysterics based on emotional viral videos, regardless of actual historical trends Ultimately, THAT is what "handling this issue" comes down to; examining the motivations for turning your team conduct into political platforms. Are we cool with using our team logo to combat gay rights, pet neutering, fixing city potholes, and whatever other outrage-du-jour we have at the moment? We have it so good in our American society today, people expect to have things easy. The challenge is, that isn't reality. Kids and especially young college-age millennials have been sheltered to believe just by existing they should be entitled to no hardship. Life is imagined as "rolling out of bed into happiness and success". The natural state of things is for you to be dead and broke. It isn't until you do something to fight against that (take action) does that outcome change. People are in poverty because they don't have skills to earn a decent wage, move to a location that does pay them, or aren't smart enough to be financially responsible. If you're broke, do something about it. If you have no skills, do something about it. If you have great ideas but aren't employed, start your own business
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Post by brophy on Sept 14, 2017 7:45:11 GMT -6
there is no "ultimatum" There is a STANDARD players are expected to uphold when they wear the program's jersey; they represent something bigger than their own personal interests. We wouldn't entertain any other political fetish to use our program as a soapbox "ultimatum = a final demand or statement of terms, the rejection of which will result in retaliation or a breakdown in relations." "If you kneel you get benched" sounds pretty much like a great example of an ultimatum to me. that's probably where the disconnect resides; how the world is interpreted. If you see rules and standards not as guideposts but vindictive punishments against your personal freedom of expression, then fight the power, amirite? We are obligated to be representatives of the team, program, school and by extension...the school board. If I, as a coach, use my title as "Coach so-and-so from City High" advocating for teenage strippers, I am performing outside the guidelines expected of me and subject to disciplinary action because I'm ruining the brand of those above institutions. You're going to be frustrated if you chose to be ignorant of the rule in the game of life
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Post by brophy on Sept 14, 2017 7:09:21 GMT -6
putting an ultimatum on the kids. there is no "ultimatum" There is a STANDARD players are expected to uphold when they wear the program's jersey; they represent something bigger than their own personal interests. We wouldn't entertain any other political fetish to use our program as a soapbox
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Post by brophy on Sept 14, 2017 5:11:28 GMT -6
I hear this parroted over and again in this thread as the (self righteous) justificiation from dividing/deviating from the TEAM. WHAT "injustice" are you referring to that is backed up with statisitcal evidence? The attitudes and motivations behind these victim campaigns isn't about righting some wrong, its about political power thrust, like getting aggressively hostile with a McDonalds manager because you got pickles on your McCrap burger. There is no real crime, youre just forcing someone to give you attention while you see how far you can push things to your will (and,most importantly, not be accountable for your own actions) My son is 'black'. I can assure you there is nothing holding him back in society. The only thing that will hold him back is a lack of self-reliance and personal accountability. He isn't victimized by some inherent boogeyman system of supremacy. Quite the opposite, in fact The only way to be " oppressed" in America is to have no education (no skills), no job and have ridiculous financial overhead (have a kid). This is true regardless of race, sex or orientation If we're moving the goalposts and talking about police interactions, it isn't that difficult to comprehend. Police are not judges. When police stop you, that is not the time to plead your case or offer up your best Matlock defense. Idiots that can't comprehend this, have a bad time...but its their own fault. Regards to the football team National Anthem - Is there a difference between being in the stands as the audience and sitting vs being a member of the team on the field? Do you make a distinction there between what significance the position has? You'd have to ask yourself why is this now becoming a meme when things actually were much worse in America? You'll realize this is just a fad, just like Breast Cancer Awareness month where every kid on the roster has to be mummified in pink athletic tape. None of these kids are advocates of Breast Cancer and even if they were, the high school venue isn't the place. They're simply mimicking what the NFL bozos do
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Post by brophy on Sept 13, 2017 15:46:31 GMT -6
Side note: I am not born in America, I am raised in the woods of Sweden essentially. If you believe I can't bring anything to the discussion since I have not lived in the US for longer than I have, I will remove myself from the discussion. so what are you basing any of your "evidence" on if you don't live in an American city? I am at a loss on how we reinforce the intent of competitive athletics, which is self-efficacy of constantly positively improving/contributing, while at the same time placating these wanton attitudes of endless victim-mentality that can only be addressed by further handicapping everyone (i.e. learned helplessness) take a step back from the facebook hysteria and recognize what this attitude feeds... Do these traits sound familiar? This is what we continue to reinforce to this generation and nurturing never-ending discontent, that its everyone else's fault and I'm not responsible for the outcomes in my own life
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Post by brophy on Sept 12, 2017 16:54:51 GMT -6
It has to be done at the legislative level. what is "it"? Change, what, exactly? THAT, in itself, highlights how ridiculous this all is
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Post by brophy on Sept 12, 2017 7:29:22 GMT -6
The black kid who plays QB .... why does that matter? What lengths are we willing to extend to any social media posts that are unrelated to the program? Are players extensions of the program? yes Are you willing to boot kids who post any questionable content online or just some? If just some, then what are you using for your selective application? I've seen countless teen social media posts that are downright criminal but we accept because we don't understand "the culture", so why accept questionable content from some but not others?
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Post by brophy on Sept 10, 2017 10:07:55 GMT -6
all over a farcebook picture? Absolutely. Over the fact that you don't get to control who is on your team what difference does it make? You're quitting your job because a kid posts a selfie doing something questionable? Not that a kid actually did anything (crime/team violation), just participating in social media I've been madder than fish grease over kids coming back (over my temporary protestation) after committing major violations and crimes, but realized a season later it was the best thing to not give up on the kids.
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Post by brophy on Sept 10, 2017 9:54:30 GMT -6
If I'm the coach and they're reinstated, I'm resigning on the spot. all over a farcebook picture?
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Post by brophy on Sept 7, 2017 14:04:12 GMT -6
When was this time in education when kids came out of high school ready to walk right into a skilled labor job like, say, welding? When apprenticeship was practiced, as it still is in many trades. Unfortunately now apprenticeship has become too formalized and rules-bound. I agree that vocational trade courses were great when I was growing up. They actually taught you quite a bit. Those would be good outlets for many of the students who just don't belong in English Composition or Physical Science. The problem is....its 2017, there is no trade these kids are going to be employable at because they know how a 2-stroke engine works. Most machines are run off an ECU. There aren't any woodworking shops because IKEA is selling stuff at 10% of the cost of your local Gepetto store. Even if public high school had a craft to teach these kids (true CAD, CompTIA, Security +, etc) certified in a viable trade, it wouldn't matter because the kids that we're talking about do not have the mental capacity or intellectual habits to function in society anywhere. Look at the Last Chance U series and the players highlighted each season. I don't know where you're at, but from what I've experienced this make a good portion of the school's population. These guys have no business in a classroom and their presence there retards everyone involved.
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Post by brophy on Sept 7, 2017 9:05:54 GMT -6
That is where most families in America are. They realize that sending their kids to public school isn't helping them. Maybe where you are. + if I were a public high school teacher, I'd be telling myself the same thing
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Post by brophy on Sept 7, 2017 8:44:31 GMT -6
I can't speak for him. It means to me, that we've taken personal accountability out of it for the most part. We just push kids though the system for the most part. We need more variety and paths that better represents the population and market, instead of basically one cookie cutter way of doing it. How would you change that? ultimately what the issue is, you can't save everyone. Some kids aren't meant for cannot overcome their family/upbringing/embraced way of life. Forcing them into a square hole doesn't benefit them and their toxic presence and attitude burdens what remains of your public school classroom that could've had a chance at a decent education. There isn't an easy fix, but if we'd be willing to accept the fact that not every kid can be saved. Not everyone is meant to survive in this world. Maybe we'd come to the grips with the REALITY of life that you either do something, for yourself, to get out of the mess you're in to IMPROVE yourself and others...or you will remain in the dead end you're in. That is where most families in America are. They realize that sending their kids to public school isn't helping them. If they had the $20k per year to put their kids into schools, they most certainly would. That is why private/charters are taking off. Not because they are necessarily doing anything different or their teachers are worlds better than their public counterparts. It is because those private administrations have some authority/accountability that is above local government bureaucracy and, probably most importantly, it keeps the toxic kids and their families away from students trying to learn. Now, where does that leave us with football, though? How could club ball offer a more viable product than public high school? eh, I bet you could make an argument What about from private high school? I think you would have a difficult time arguing against private school football programs Club ball logistics (particularly past middle school level) are something I just don't know how you could manage. The infrastructure to run a solid 15-18 year old club team, let alone a league (?)....I'm not sure I understand where the investment would come from. Then you're also talking about practices that are cutting into time these kids are at school (whereas, if the football is with the school, you cut down on a good hour or two).... What is the point of doing all this (for a parent)? Am I really thinking my son is destined for the NFL? If not, then what difference does it ultimately make if Coach Joe Slappy is teaching him scoop blocks versus Howard Mudd? So we have the IMG Academy (who haven't fared so well against private school competitor teams)... and next year we have the PAC Football League that is intended to be the alternative to NCAA athletes. If that becomes viable, then you would at least have more leverage in justifying varsity-level club ball Of course, I'm thinking 'big city', but I'm sure a working model of this has already been in practice by 8-man teams (not associated with one team) and rural township collectives that field teams
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Post by brophy on Sept 7, 2017 6:42:36 GMT -6
regarding bobgoodman and coacharnold in this discussion, isn't this where we are (in America), already?
In 2017, I don't know there is a real value in a public school education. Sure its compulsory, it keeps the kids in line for the most part and allows their parents to contribute to the work force, but if we're talking a valuable EDUCATION, the kind that public school used to provide, you have to get your kids in a public/charter school....i.e. PAY FOR IT.
Public school education, if we're honest, has devolved to the lowest common denominator of society. What Hemlock is referring to/suggesting, when you get down to it, has been brought full circle by coachd5085 - private schools are the ultimate model. You have a premium student base, can provide "scholarships" to in-need families (read who happen to have the fastest kid in the city), and can benefit from running a "for-profit" enterprise with a tax-free shelter.
Take it a step further than private schools and you have the IMG Academy. How is that working out?
We can all take a look at how the European model of training Olympic athletes has gone. There certainly is a long enough track record. The challenge is football is a large-scale sport. If you're going to do it right, let's be honest, you're 2-platooning, you've got depth, you play large stadiums, you have field equipment and you travel well. You could skimp on any one of those, but you wouldn't have the ideal "club ball" environment designed to breed/foster solid athletes.
So what are we ultimately after with this discussion?
* Is it a systemic way of ensuring kids get top-notch sport instruction? If so, this would likely drive someone to pursue 'club ball' because we know there is zero accountability for competency within a school district, let alone the entire nation.
* Is it a way to divorce the labor/body-needy pipeline of school enrollment from a football program? Because of the above bureaucracy it might lead one down this path, but you can't have the social equality aspect of get a wide range of backgrounds on your team (haves & have-nots). The have-nots, by in large, are not only economically challenged, but are seriously behaviorally / mentally challenged. So while you could sponsor a kid who can't pay, that kid probably also has a lot of core issues that make him incompatible with productive society as a whole. These are the "needs football more than football needs him" type of kids
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Post by brophy on Sept 5, 2017 11:11:52 GMT -6
I know, this was just the link I had popped up on the computer at the time. According to the other articles, the coach wasn't fired or disciplined because the missing kid took off on his own and didnt rejoin the group
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Post by brophy on Sept 5, 2017 9:35:46 GMT -6
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Post by brophy on Aug 30, 2017 11:09:27 GMT -6
translate this millennialese to English, please
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Post by brophy on Aug 15, 2017 14:18:33 GMT -6
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Post by brophy on Aug 9, 2017 7:16:47 GMT -6
seemed like the only guy doing any real coaching was the DL coach. But I'm reminded that there's a lot of editing.... just a reminder of how much is left out. It's interesting because EMCC has their own PR dept, that had been producing weekly videos of their own during the season on Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/user/EMCCathletics/videos) They show a markedly different perspective of what practice may be like There really isn't much football shown in the series. 6) she seemed to change a lot from season 1 to season 2 in that she got a taste of the world outside Scooba but obviously wasn't happy where she was Its good for her to jump on her bloated market value because of the series. The real challenge is, what is she quantifiably offering to a program not in Scooba, MS? That has to be tough for her to figure out what to do with the support to change her circumstance? What does she do other than serve as a glorified baby sitter to mentally retarded students, who by all rights, should not be in college? To show how disconnected the producers and Ms Wagner are from reality..... ftw.usatoday.com/2017/07/last-chance-u-brittany-wagner-college-sports-football-reform
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Post by brophy on Aug 3, 2017 7:53:07 GMT -6
I believe Rugby would be a sport that not only is tougher than football but also require more athleticism. Its too bad it will never really catch on across America
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Post by brophy on Aug 2, 2017 13:49:08 GMT -6
it didn't appear to me that he learned any kind of lesson at EMCC. Apparently the Pitt staff feels they will succeed where previous coaches have failed. who cares? You can be 2-deep at DLine but if you can't make any of those 6'1" 270lbs players into a Kam Carter that is 6'5" 305lbs. THAT is the only thing a DI program will care about, particularly for just 2 seasons.
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Post by brophy on Aug 1, 2017 8:52:58 GMT -6
#2 He has an eye for talent. He obviously has an eye for coaching talent and hires what appears to me to be good coaches. He has an eye for player talent, not only is he a recruiter but an evaluator. As I recall, JUCO recruiting is a mass media effort. Coaches don't have a big budget for bringing in talent, they aren't like DIII schools that rely on enticing kids to play for them to cover tuition income requirements for the school. Coach Stephens doesn't have to sell anything, because it sells itself. I'm sure most of these DI programs are referring players to him, parking athletes for academic remediation (see Dennis / Brad Franchione). Buddy might stop by Mississippi high schools in the fall, but imagine his cupboard stays full because of the reputation he has built. The players that go there are looking at playing 1 season, 2 if they have to because they all plan to move onto big things.
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Post by brophy on Aug 1, 2017 8:31:03 GMT -6
do you feel this kind of show would help HS players of today to see where they will likely be if they want to keep playing? The majority of our HS guys are not going to big college programs. Those that do play will be at DIII or JuCo. Is the teenage mind capable of processing how humbling it would be for EMCC players to struggle through classes and getting eaten up by other bonafide talent on the roster?
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Post by brophy on Aug 1, 2017 7:16:20 GMT -6
I don't know if this gets lost in the rush to pick sides on this program, but can anyone else relate to how the head coach starts off the season (with a new perspective) then once the season grinds on him, he falls back into his old habits after the midway point?
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Post by brophy on Jul 30, 2017 13:30:19 GMT -6
Guess we need to get some sports psychologists in the stands for our players
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