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Post by StraightFlexin on Sept 11, 2017 8:30:56 GMT -6
With the kneeling and sitting happening all over professional sports it really has made me wonder what I would do if a player just decided to do one of these things during the anthem. I have always preached unity as a team (helmet under the left arm in a single file line). Has anyone had a player unexpectedly kneel? How did you handle it? How would you handle it?
I'm just curious about other coaches opinion about their/the situation, not what I should do (to clarify).
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Post by coachtuck on Sept 11, 2017 8:41:32 GMT -6
I personally let the players choose as a group what their gonna do they decided to stand but not hold their hands to their hearts but one player took a knee, he said he feels so strongly about the issues at hand so he takes a knee I have no problem with it because as a man you can only stand by your principles and I respect things like that when any of my kids make life or social decisions based on things they believe in their hearts, I also take a knee myself so idk if he’s seen me or not because I’m always in the booth to call plays, we all got booed pretty hard our first away game which took place at a school located in the richest suburb of our area, one of the white players on our team was heckled on social media by some folk from the other school about it his response was “I may not be able to fully relate but they don’t come from where we come from so they don’t know anything” kids working on being a fire fighter now
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Post by rsmith627 on Sept 11, 2017 9:13:40 GMT -6
I think our varsity team might have had one kid choose to kneel last year, and nobody really made a big deal out of it. We are in a pretty affluent suburb, so if our kids do it I feel like they're mostly just crying for attention that I'm not willing to give to them.
We played a team last week that was comprised entirely of African American young men. They all faced the flag and held their helmet up in the air in their right hand. I liked the unity of it. They did have one young man stand not facing the flag (he didn't kneel or anything), but he did at least hold his helmet up in solidarity with his team.
I don't want to make this political and see this thread locked because I think it's important, but the thing with these protests (like them or not) is that we have a significant portion of this country that don't agree with the treatment that they receive. Kap's goal with all of this was to draw attention to that fact and to start a dialogue. Seems like that was pretty effective.
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Post by hunhdisciple on Sept 11, 2017 9:15:18 GMT -6
Legally, it's a very questionable area. If you're from the wrong area and someone gets with the right lawyer, you may be out of a job.
I'm not going to tell the kids how to feel or what they should feel. If they feel strongly about something, I wouldn't feel right denying them of their convictions. I would respect their desire to lend whatever voice they may have to a very volatile issue. I don't walk their road, they don't walk mine.
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Post by coachtuck on Sept 11, 2017 9:33:02 GMT -6
We all kneeled last year, the HC made all of the players write and turn in a paper on social injustice before any of them were allowed to take a knee, once all players turned it in and the papers were acceptable they were allowed to kneel
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Post by murdr on Sept 11, 2017 9:50:47 GMT -6
I'd personally bench the kid, to be honest. Not gonna be bigger than the team or trash our reputation.
I'd like for them to stand and face. They don't have to put their hands over their hearts. And they have a right to free speech. But I have the right to bench distractions.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 9:54:30 GMT -6
My administrators and a former athletic director that is retired all talked to me the day of our first game. If they want to take a knee, take a knee. That is fine, but you will not talk, run around, be crazy during this time. We line up on the sideline as a team, face the flag as a team, some kids kneel, some kids stand, everyone is silent.
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Post by newhope on Sept 11, 2017 12:16:26 GMT -6
I'd personally bench the kid, to be honest. Not gonna be bigger than the team or trash our reputation. I'd like for them to stand and face. They don't have to put their hands over their hearts. And they have a right to free speech. But I have the right to bench distractions. Let us know how that goes when you bench a kid for that. You don't have a legal leg to stand on. It doesn't matter whether you or I like it or not. Are you going to do the same thing to a kid that refuses to participate in prayer?
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Post by PSS on Sept 11, 2017 12:50:52 GMT -6
Seriously, this entire "taking a knee" has gotten out of hand. Kids are mimicking the pro athletes. The pro athletes are acting like spoiled brats. They are putting themselves before their teams. There are better ways to demonstrate than to dishonor those that have given their lives to keep people like Kaepernick free.
He can use his platform as a professional athlete to promote better relations between those that are being discriminated against. But do it off the field. Don't involve the team and don't let it get in the way of being a good teammate.
Franco Harris said it the best. "But if Colin felt that he wanted to make a point – which is fine, which is his right to get involved in any organization that he really wants – but when he puts on that suit [team uniform], when he steps out on that field, now it’s more than just him. It’s his team mates, it’s the NFL, and it’s the fans."https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/nfl-legend-franco-harris-mean-joe-greene-and-jack-lambert-wouldve-dealt-colin
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Post by fkaboneyard on Sept 11, 2017 13:34:27 GMT -6
Good grief, a 14 year-old kid taking a knee during the national anthem and I'm supposed to be okay with that? I know I'll get flamed for this but IMO that is total bs. That kid has no idea what he's doing other than some SJW garbage that he learned from watching the pros on Sunday.
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Post by PSS on Sept 11, 2017 13:51:11 GMT -6
Good grief, a 14 year-old kid taking a knee during the national anthem and I'm supposed to be okay with that? I know I'll get flamed for this but IMO that is total bs. That kid has no idea what he's doing other than some SJW garbage that he learned from watching the pros on Sunday. I agree with you. He needs to know that his team comes first. If he wants to be an individual then maybe he needs to re-think his priorities. Ask him what social injustice is he protesting. Does it have a direct effect on the him. If not then show him other ways to actively get involved outside of the team setting. The same could be said for if it does have a direct effect on him. You can't have team unity and bond if one or more doesn't want it. This is why it is important to teach character development in your program. Many of these kids don't have anyone to teach them the importance of a family and the only positive family experience they may have is the football program. It's up to coaches to teach many our players on how to control their emotions and also how to express them without hurting others. If society is going to change it has to start at a young age. Coaches have the more influence than anyone else. It's up to us to help change what's wrong. This could go on forever but I believe you're doing a disservice when you just allow a kid to take a knee.
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Post by mahonz on Sept 11, 2017 15:55:18 GMT -6
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Post by NC1974 on Sept 11, 2017 18:42:15 GMT -6
Good grief, a 14 year-old kid taking a knee during the national anthem and I'm supposed to be okay with that? I know I'll get flamed for this but IMO that is total bs. That kid has no idea what he's doing other than some SJW garbage that he learned from watching the pros on Sunday. Does your view change if this is a 14 yr old a African American kid from the west side of Chicago or Ferguson, Mo? I haven't dealt with this directly, but I would want to hear the kid out. If he felt that strongly, I would encourage him to do what he felt was right. As long as he wasn't making a scene or being blatantly disrespectful, I think I would support him. Along similar lines, I never make kids stand for the pledge. I share with them why I stand for the pledge, and if they don't. I ask them to really think about why they don't. If they choose not to, I ask them to be respectful during that time. I get a kick out of the whole "social justice warrior" used as a derogatory term. There are people who experience social inequality in this country on a daily basis. Should they not attempt to do something about it in an appropriate way?
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Post by murdr on Sept 11, 2017 18:44:02 GMT -6
I'd personally bench the kid, to be honest. Not gonna be bigger than the team or trash our reputation. I'd like for them to stand and face. They don't have to put their hands over their hearts. And they have a right to free speech. But I have the right to bench distractions. Let us know how that goes when you bench a kid for that. You don't have a legal leg to stand on. It doesn't matter whether you or I like it or not. Are you going to do the same thing to a kid that refuses to participate in prayer? A kid doesn't have a right to play, so benching them violates no law. And no, I wouldn't bench a kid that refuses to pray. I wouldn't hold team prayer if I were the head coach. But that's a different issue anyways. One is allowing kids to have different religious beliefs. The other is about respect. You can at least stand for the anthem and still be anti-whatever. The two are unrelated. But that's also the thing. I can't stop them from kneeling. But I can exercise my right to choose who I want representing my team. I also look at it from a recruiting aspect. If potential athletes' parents see my guys kneeling... in West Virginia, those potential players would be going elsewhere
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Post by rsmith627 on Sept 11, 2017 18:50:01 GMT -6
Let us know how that goes when you bench a kid for that. You don't have a legal leg to stand on. It doesn't matter whether you or I like it or not. Are you going to do the same thing to a kid that refuses to participate in prayer? A kid doesn't have a right to play, so benching them violates no law. And no, I wouldn't bench a kid that refuses to pray. I wouldn't hold team prayer if I were the head coach. But that's a different issue anyways. One is allowing kids to have different religious beliefs. The other is about respect. You can at least stand for the anthem and still be anti-whatever. The two are unrelated. But that's also the thing. I can't stop them from kneeling. But I can exercise my right to choose who I want representing my team. I also look at it from a recruiting aspect. If potential athletes' parents see my guys kneeling... in West Virginia, those potential players would be going elsewhere So when Jonny Stud with 3 D1 offers kneels, you're going to bench him? You're going to put your job on the line over some 17 year old kid refusing to stand up? Who cares man.
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Post by chi5hi on Sept 11, 2017 19:20:43 GMT -6
Anyone who doesn't stand and honor Old Glory during the playing of the National Anthem is of absolutely no use to me, and has no room on any team I coach, be it player or assistant.
If you don't want to display patriotism...do it behind the bleachers where no one can see your stupidity.
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Post by PSS on Sept 11, 2017 19:26:38 GMT -6
A kid doesn't have a right to play, so benching them violates no law. And no, I wouldn't bench a kid that refuses to pray. I wouldn't hold team prayer if I were the head coach. But that's a different issue anyways. One is allowing kids to have different religious beliefs. The other is about respect. You can at least stand for the anthem and still be anti-whatever. The two are unrelated. But that's also the thing. I can't stop them from kneeling. But I can exercise my right to choose who I want representing my team. I also look at it from a recruiting aspect. If potential athletes' parents see my guys kneeling... in West Virginia, those potential players would be going elsewhere So when Jonny Stud with 3 D1 offers kneels, you're going to bench him? You're going to put your job on the line over some 17 year old kid refusing to stand up? Who cares man. Honestly, if he is being an individual and a distraction then 1) I doubt his current teammates have little to do with him and would eventually cause him to be dismissed from the team, 2) you've failed at your job of teaching character development, and 3) the first question asked by a college recruiter to his HS coach is how good of a kid is he? I believe his actions speak for themselves. I doubt there are many of these kids recruited by D1 schools. They carry too much baggage and wouldn't last long in a D1 program.
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beernuts69
Freshmen Member
Yeah, I'm not on probation any longer...just wait...
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Post by beernuts69 on Sept 11, 2017 19:32:15 GMT -6
Do what we do, stay in the locker room until the National Anthem is done. Our whole conference does this, even at our school and the locker rooms are a baseball field + a 9 iron away from the stadium.
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Post by murdr on Sept 11, 2017 19:35:27 GMT -6
A kid doesn't have a right to play, so benching them violates no law. And no, I wouldn't bench a kid that refuses to pray. I wouldn't hold team prayer if I were the head coach. But that's a different issue anyways. One is allowing kids to have different religious beliefs. The other is about respect. You can at least stand for the anthem and still be anti-whatever. The two are unrelated. But that's also the thing. I can't stop them from kneeling. But I can exercise my right to choose who I want representing my team. I also look at it from a recruiting aspect. If potential athletes' parents see my guys kneeling... in West Virginia, those potential players would be going elsewhere So when Jonny Stud with 3 D1 offers kneels, you're going to bench him? You're going to put your job on the line over some 17 year old kid refusing to stand up? Who cares man. Yes, I'd bench him. I don't care if the guy is a 5-star recruit, a distraction is a distraction.
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Post by NC1974 on Sept 11, 2017 19:39:02 GMT -6
Is there a scenario where a kid or kids could choose to kneel and not be a distraction? What if they came to the HC a few days before the game and made their case? I guess my point is, is the act itself a distraction, or the perceived turmoil it creates a distraction? What if the HC says, we discussed this as a team, and we support them?
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Post by PSS on Sept 11, 2017 19:59:13 GMT -6
Is there a scenario where a kid or kids could choose to kneel and not be a distraction? What if they came to the HC a few days before the game and made their case? I guess my point is, is the act itself a distraction, or the perceived turmoil it creates a distraction? What if the HC says, we discussed this as a team, and we support them? The HC needs to tell him that there are other ways to demonstrate his beliefs than to dishonor the flag and anthem that represents the freedoms that so many have died defending and are currently serving and defending for all of us. Here in the past 4 years we have had 9 former players join the military, one of them is my son. This years team has one that has already committed to serve when he graduates. The kneeling crap just doesn't fly around here. Our character development has many parts but the core is Trust, Respect, Integrity, Believe, and Enthusiasm. We also use Joe Ehrmann's InSideOut Initiative. It is very good for changing what is wrong with today's society.
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Post by NC1974 on Sept 11, 2017 20:17:05 GMT -6
Is there a scenario where a kid or kids could choose to kneel and not be a distraction? What if they came to the HC a few days before the game and made their case? I guess my point is, is the act itself a distraction, or the perceived turmoil it creates a distraction? What if the HC says, we discussed this as a team, and we support them? The HC needs to tell him that there are other ways to demonstrate his beliefs than to dishonor the flag and anthem that represents the freedoms that so many have died defending and are currently serving and defending for all of us. Here in the past 4 years we have had 9 former players join the military, one of them is my son. This years team has one that has already committed to serve when he graduates. The kneeling crap just doesn't fly around here. Our character development has many parts but the core is Trust, Respect, Integrity, Believe, and Enthusiasm. We also use Joe Ehrmann's InSideOut Initiative. It is very good for changing what is wrong with today's society. I guess much of this comes down to how one interprets the act of kneeling. Do those who kneel wish to dishonor the flag? Do they hate America? Or are they attempting to draw attention to inequality that exists in our society? And are they attempting to do it in a non-violent, legal way? While I can definitely see how those who serve or those who have family who serve could be offended by this, I would also point out that several service members have sided with the "kneelers", essentially arguing that one of the things they fight to protect is our freedom of speech. PSS, I am grateful to your son for his service, and wish him all the best.
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Post by coacht65 on Sept 11, 2017 20:33:18 GMT -6
Let us know how that goes when you bench a kid for that. You don't have a legal leg to stand on. It doesn't matter whether you or I like it or not. Are you going to do the same thing to a kid that refuses to participate in prayer? A kid doesn't have a right to play, so benching them violates no law. And no, I wouldn't bench a kid that refuses to pray. I wouldn't hold team prayer if I were the head coach. But that's a different issue anyways. One is allowing kids to have different religious beliefs. The other is about respect. You can at least stand for the anthem and still be anti-whatever. The two are unrelated. But that's also the thing. I can't stop them from kneeling. But I can exercise my right to choose who I want representing my team. I also look at it from a recruiting aspect. If potential athletes' parents see my guys kneeling... in West Virginia, those potential players would be going elsewhere If you coach for a public school, you could not be more wrong. Violate that kids 1st amendment rights, and you are inviting a lawsuit. In federal court, which means not the local judge you hunt with. Yeah, you can choose not to recruit them, and all things being equal, that's fine. But like someone else said, if it he is otherwise a stud and a good kid, pretty stupid not to recruit him because of this.
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Post by tippecanoe41 on Sept 11, 2017 21:20:04 GMT -6
With the kneeling and sitting happening all over professional sports it really has made me wonder what I would do if a player just decided to do one of these things during the anthem. I have always preached unity as a team (helmet under the left arm in a single file line). Has anyone had a player unexpectedly kneel? How did you handle it? How would you handle it? I'm just curious about other coaches opinion about their/the situation, not what I should do (to clarify). We are not typically on the field during the national anthem, but the way I've seen it from the first time that Kaepernich (SP?) kneeled was this. I don't mind someone making a statement, but there has to be a better way to do it than that, knowing that it would so terribly offend so many people. That's just my opinion. I would tell my guys to find a different way, but I guess a lot of it would have to do with the type of community you live in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 21:24:44 GMT -6
Honestly, I'm glad I've not had to deal with this. We live in a conservative area: for a coach, this would be a no-win situation if that were to happen.
A few years ago, I was at a school where the seniors jumped the gun and ran through the tunnel while the anthem was still playing. From the reaction, you'd have thought we burned the flag during pregame. Our ROTC teacher wanted to fight us and people were calling for our heads. It was a horrible mess. I'd hate to see what they'd do if we "allowed" kids to take a knee during the anthem or otherwise act disrespectfully.
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Post by silkyice on Sept 11, 2017 21:49:50 GMT -6
This is an honest question. Why is the National Anthem played before ball games anyways?
I have zero problem with it. I think it is a good thing. But if we didn't do it, would we miss it or would we only miss it because it is part of the routine that we are accustom to?
Where else do you ever hear the national anthem? I mean really, where else? Why would that be something that is only played at ball games? I am sure it is played at other things, but I really can't think of too many.
It can't be because it is a place where the public gathers. We don't play it at church, concerts, movies, school (Pledge instead), plays, opera, Broadway, Festivals, Fairs, etc.
Surely this just started somewhere and just built into a tradition. Is it like playing Sweet Caroline at every baseball game now?
Again, I have no problem with it. But you have to admit, if we never played it and someone suggested that we should start playing it before every single sporting event, we would think that was odd.
I love that we honor our country, military, and those who have fought and died for the country. I definitely don't want any one to disrespect the flag or national anthem.
But why is it played before sporting events?
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Post by murdr on Sept 12, 2017 5:05:55 GMT -6
A kid doesn't have a right to play, so benching them violates no law. And no, I wouldn't bench a kid that refuses to pray. I wouldn't hold team prayer if I were the head coach. But that's a different issue anyways. One is allowing kids to have different religious beliefs. The other is about respect. You can at least stand for the anthem and still be anti-whatever. The two are unrelated. But that's also the thing. I can't stop them from kneeling. But I can exercise my right to choose who I want representing my team. I also look at it from a recruiting aspect. If potential athletes' parents see my guys kneeling... in West Virginia, those potential players would be going elsewhere If you coach for a public school, you could not be more wrong. Violate that kids 1st amendment rights, and you are inviting a lawsuit. In federal court, which means not the local judge you hunt with. Yeah, you can choose not to recruit them, and all things being equal, that's fine. But like someone else said, if it he is otherwise a stud and a good kid, pretty stupid not to recruit him because of this. The first amendment protects you from the infringing on your right to free speech. Benching them in a football game does not do so. They can still speak freely.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 12, 2017 5:45:37 GMT -6
Another honest question, asked in a sarcastic manner. Why are so many coaches OK with players dishonoring injured teammates or opponents by taking a knee as that player lays on the turf?
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Post by newhope on Sept 12, 2017 6:18:21 GMT -6
Let us know how that goes when you bench a kid for that. You don't have a legal leg to stand on. It doesn't matter whether you or I like it or not. Are you going to do the same thing to a kid that refuses to participate in prayer? A kid doesn't have a right to play, so benching them violates no law. And no, I wouldn't bench a kid that refuses to pray. I wouldn't hold team prayer if I were the head coach. But that's a different issue anyways. One is allowing kids to have different religious beliefs. The other is about respect. You can at least stand for the anthem and still be anti-whatever. The two are unrelated. But that's also the thing. I can't stop them from kneeling. But I can exercise my right to choose who I want representing my team. I also look at it from a recruiting aspect. If potential athletes' parents see my guys kneeling... in West Virginia, those potential players would be going elsewhere If you are coaching at a public school, your arguments aren't going to hold up. Try using that "a kid doesn't have a right to play" defense when you're sitting on the witness stand. You don't have the right to force your political views on a kid any more than you have the right to enforce your religious views. Truth is, if you kick a kid off for this, you won't have to let us know. Someone else will share the link to the news article about it.
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Post by wingtol on Sept 12, 2017 6:50:00 GMT -6
We are the Braves so right at the end of the Anthem all the players raise their helmets and all the people in the stands scream "and the home of the BRAVES!" All the kids love it and do it so we haven't had a problem with it and the area we are in I would tend to believe people would not accept anyone kneeling or doing anything else during the Anthem.
I find it funny that some guys will let kids do whatever and not be strict on the issue but then turn around and wonder why their players don't respect them or teachers or parents or law enforcement etc etc... They are teen age boys who are more often than not influenced by what they see and think is cool.
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