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Post by 19delta on Sept 9, 2017 14:05:55 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 15:51:38 GMT -6
Just because you put them in the same school, same sport, same whatever, does not mean the issue is fixed. And I think we are going backward, but I am not sure we ever went forwards.
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Post by mariner42 on Sept 9, 2017 16:08:08 GMT -6
If those boys are reinstated, sh!t better hit the fan. If I'm the coach and they're reinstated, I'm resigning on the spot. If I'm the QB, I'm transferring. Unreal that parents would try to defend the boys.
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Post by murdr on Sept 9, 2017 18:54:30 GMT -6
Can't suspend them from school, due to the first amendment. But they'd be off my team immediately, with zero chance to come back.
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Post by bleefb on Sept 9, 2017 19:25:01 GMT -6
If those boys are reinstated, sh!t better hit the fan. If I'm the coach and they're reinstated, I'm resigning on the spot. If I'm the QB, I'm transferring. Unreal that parents would try to defend the boys. Parents will defend their kids for almost anything. Also, who do you think they got those ideas from?
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Post by 19delta on Sept 10, 2017 6:05:36 GMT -6
If those boys are reinstated, sh!t better hit the fan. If I'm the coach and they're reinstated, I'm resigning on the spot. If I'm the QB, I'm transferring. Unreal that parents would try to defend the boys. Parents will defend their kids for almost anything. Also, who do you think they got those ideas from? No doubt.
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Post by freezeoption on Sept 10, 2017 9:07:38 GMT -6
they could be suspended, you don't have complete freedom of speech, hazelwood v kuhlmeir
i'll add, if they are part of an extra curricular activity they can be held to high standards, I heard there was something going on in creston, didn't know it was this, it was kept very vague, iowa is open enrollement, he could move to another school, don't think he can during the school year
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Post by brophy on Sept 10, 2017 9:54:30 GMT -6
If I'm the coach and they're reinstated, I'm resigning on the spot. all over a farcebook picture?
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 10, 2017 9:57:37 GMT -6
If I'm the coach and they're reinstated, I'm resigning on the spot. all over a farcebook picture? Absolutely. Over the fact that you don't get to control who is on your team
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Post by brophy on Sept 10, 2017 10:07:55 GMT -6
all over a farcebook picture? Absolutely. Over the fact that you don't get to control who is on your team what difference does it make? You're quitting your job because a kid posts a selfie doing something questionable? Not that a kid actually did anything (crime/team violation), just participating in social media I've been madder than fish grease over kids coming back (over my temporary protestation) after committing major violations and crimes, but realized a season later it was the best thing to not give up on the kids.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2017 10:35:32 GMT -6
Those kids need to be booted off the team immediately. This is a time where a message has to be sent that this type of crap is not tolerated from athletes who are expected to set an example, especially when they have black teammates. If they're somehow reinstated, I'd resign too.
The free speech rights here are complicated. If that picture was targeted at their own QB, even if it's a joke, there are some criminal charges that can be brought. At my college alma mater, we had that idiot in the gorilla mask show up at the BLM protest a while back. He got charged with Civil Rights Intimidation and was expelled from school.
Parents will defend kids for anything. In most cases, they tend to get their way.
Unfortunately, I think race relations in this country are going to get worse before they get better. This is just another example.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 10, 2017 10:46:54 GMT -6
Absolutely. Over the fact that you don't get to control who is on your team what difference does it make? You're quitting your job because a kid posts a selfie doing something questionable? Not that a kid actually did anything (crime/team violation), just participating in social media I've been madder than fish grease over kids coming back (over my temporary protestation) after committing major violations and crimes, but realized a season later it was the best thing to not give up on the kids. No, you are disassociating yourself with an organization that would tolerate such behaviors.
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Post by dytmook on Sept 10, 2017 13:14:10 GMT -6
I could see how someone could let someone earn their way back in a way I guess. Plus it would lead the kids to potentially misplace the blame on why they were kicked off and cause an escalation.
I personally just don't see how I could play a kid who had done something so stupid.
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Post by groundchuck on Sept 10, 2017 19:53:32 GMT -6
Like was said earlier there are parents who will defend their kid for anything.
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Post by fkaboneyard on Sept 11, 2017 11:19:30 GMT -6
The statement that I read from at least one kid's parents didn't have them defending their kid at all. They acknowledged that he made a terrible mistake and they are working with him to repair the damage as best he can and learn from it.
I'm 99.99999% sure that none of my sons would do something like that but kids can be absolute morons so I'd never say 100%. And if one of my kids did that I'd be heartbroken. I would feel deep down inside that I had failed them as their father but I would not defend their actions. I would do anything in my power to help my son learn from it and be a better person from it.
If I were the HC I would not want those boys on my team. I don't associate with people like that and I wouldn't want to coach them. The flip side is that those kids need men in their lives that will teach them about what it means to be a real man. Like I said, kids can be total morons. I grew up without a dad and I cringe when I look back at some of the things I did as a teenage boy, trying to prove how tough I was. I am absolutely ashamed nearly 30 years later. Thank God my coaches didn't give up on me.
Just a terrible situation all around.
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Post by funkfriss on Sept 11, 2017 20:00:09 GMT -6
So, where does it end? If you kick them off the football team are they also not allowed to participate in basketball or any other sport? What if they are underclassmen? Never get to play again?
Listen, I don't know everything in this situation and neither do any of you (at least I assume so). Further, I understand what was done was agregious, but at the same time wouldn't it be better to give these young men a chance at retribution? To redeem themselves? To learn and grow from a mistake they may have made? It's not like they're going away, they are still enrolled in the school.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 11, 2017 20:13:56 GMT -6
So, where does it end? If you kick them off the football team are they also not allowed to participate in basketball or any other sport? What if they are underclassmen? Never get to play again? Listen, I don't know everything in this situation and neither do any of you (at least I assume so). Further, I understand what was done was agregious, but at the same time wouldn't it be better to give these young men a chance at retribution? To redeem themselves? To learn and grow from a mistake they may have made? It's not like they're going away, they are still enrolled in the school. Given that all but one of the families are filing a lawsuit to get their little angels out of trouble, I would say that any lesson to learn will fall on deaf ears.
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Post by PSS on Sept 11, 2017 20:14:27 GMT -6
I couldn't think of a better way to reach out and change the lives of those that are misled. The majority of us are in this business to change lives, winning does help, and throwing the kids off the team is doing nothing but allowing them to continue to be misled. The coach should reach out to these kids and show them how their display of hate hurts so many people and that as a team you must be brothers. You have to watch out for each other, not hurt each other.
I stated this on other post, coaches need to be more involved in character development.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 11, 2017 20:18:33 GMT -6
I couldn't think of a better way to reach out and change the lives of those that are misled. The majority of us are in this business to change lives, winning does help, and throwing the kids off the team is doing nothing but allowing them to continue to be misled. The coach should reach out to these kids and show them how their display of hate hurts so many people and that as a team you must be brothers. You have to watch out for each other, not hurt each other. I stated this on other post, coaches need to be more involved in character development. The black kid who plays QB (and many other kids on the team and in the school) has stated pretty clearly that he doesn't want those dickbags on the team. Don't you have a responsibility to the good kids who didn't get photographed dressed up as Klansmen?
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 11, 2017 20:21:21 GMT -6
I couldn't think of a better way to reach out and change the lives of those that are misled. The majority of us are in this business to change lives, winning does help, and throwing the kids off the team is doing nothing but allowing them to continue to be misled. The coach should reach out to these kids and show them how their display of hate hurts so many people and that as a team you must be brothers. You have to watch out for each other, not hurt each other. I stated this on other post, coaches need to be more involved in character development. If you think THAT is the message that will be received...I think you are sorely mistaken.
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Post by PSS on Sept 11, 2017 20:34:36 GMT -6
I couldn't think of a better way to reach out and change the lives of those that are misled. The majority of us are in this business to change lives, winning does help, and throwing the kids off the team is doing nothing but allowing them to continue to be misled. The coach should reach out to these kids and show them how their display of hate hurts so many people and that as a team you must be brothers. You have to watch out for each other, not hurt each other. I stated this on other post, coaches need to be more involved in character development. If you think THAT is the message that will be received...I think you are sorely mistaken. Both sides need to learn how to handle the situation correctly now, while they are still young, so that the same mistake doesn't happen again. This is why we keep having cycles of this throughout our country. No one will confront it and teach that hate is wrong. It has to stop sometime or it will continue to divided our country. Sports is one of the only areas where all ethnic groups are accepted. You can't say that about too many other things. We have to use our position to teach what is right.
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 11, 2017 20:38:33 GMT -6
I couldn't think of a better way to reach out and change the lives of those that are misled. The majority of us are in this business to change lives, winning does help, and throwing the kids off the team is doing nothing but allowing them to continue to be misled. The coach should reach out to these kids and show them how their display of hate hurts so many people and that as a team you must be brothers. You have to watch out for each other, not hurt each other. I stated this on other post, coaches need to be more involved in character development. The 2 hours a day you see them isn't going to outweigh their home environment and friends.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 11, 2017 20:43:47 GMT -6
If you think THAT is the message that will be received...I think you are sorely mistaken. Both sides need to learn how to handle the situation correctly now, while they are still young, so that the same mistake doesn't happen again. This is why we keep having cycles of this throughout our country. No one will confront it and teach that hate is wrong. It has to stop sometime or it will continue to divided our country. Sports is one of the only areas where all ethnic groups are accepted. You can't say that about too many other things. We have to use our position to teach what is right. As larrymoe stated, if you think your few hours as a coach can be used to "teach" those beliefs out of the kids... well I just don't see it. However, I DO believe that you are teaching the vast majority of the guys by saying "F those losers.. anyone who believes that or acts like that are LOSERS, and I don't want to be around losers" by booting them. I do believe you are teaching the minority ethnic group members on the team and in the community "HEY, those LOSERS don't represent us. They are just LOSERS" by booting them off.
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Post by PSS on Sept 11, 2017 20:48:54 GMT -6
I couldn't think of a better way to reach out and change the lives of those that are misled. The majority of us are in this business to change lives, winning does help, and throwing the kids off the team is doing nothing but allowing them to continue to be misled. The coach should reach out to these kids and show them how their display of hate hurts so many people and that as a team you must be brothers. You have to watch out for each other, not hurt each other. I stated this on other post, coaches need to be more involved in character development. The 2 hours a day you see them isn't going to outweigh their home environment and friends. In Texas we are all classroom teachers, usually at the HS. You can develop good relationships with kids when you're with them everyday. Plus, we build in time before or after practice for character development. Each coach has his own group of kids. There are so many single parent homes without fathers that they need a male figure in their lives. You may be the only male figure in their life that cares about them. I have kids / young men I coached 20 years ago that still call me once a month. The kids here call me Dad all the time because I take the time to listen to them and give them a little "fatherly" advice. I don't care that they call me that because I know they trust me. The football team is my extended family.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 21:06:32 GMT -6
I couldn't think of a better way to reach out and change the lives of those that are misled. The majority of us are in this business to change lives, winning does help, and throwing the kids off the team is doing nothing but allowing them to continue to be misled. The coach should reach out to these kids and show them how their display of hate hurts so many people and that as a team you must be brothers. You have to watch out for each other, not hurt each other. I stated this on other post, coaches need to be more involved in character development. The 2 hours a day you see them isn't going to outweigh their home environment and friends. Or the culture that now teaches young white kids that it's cool and "edgy" to be racist dickbags and push buttons to offend people. They think it's the modern equivalent of smoking pot, listening to offensive music, or growing their hair out. It's not.
Unfortunately, we're going to see a lot more of this over the next few years.Kids need limits to teach them where the boundary lies. There aren't too many people setting those these days. Clearly the parents aren't, so someone has to. If they grow up, maybe you let them come out again next year after they apologize to the whole team for actions that embarrassed the group and rightfully upset the minority members, but until then, phuk 'em.
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Post by fantom on Sept 11, 2017 21:07:45 GMT -6
So, where does it end? If you kick them off the football team are they also not allowed to participate in basketball or any other sport? What if they are underclassmen? Never get to play again? Listen, I don't know everything in this situation and neither do any of you (at least I assume so). Further, I understand what was done was agregious, but at the same time wouldn't it be better to give these young men a chance at retribution? To redeem themselves? To learn and grow from a mistake they may have made? It's not like they're going away, they are still enrolled in the school. Short answer: no.
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Post by silkyice on Sept 11, 2017 21:55:27 GMT -6
Or the culture that now teaches young white kids that it's cool and "edgy" to be racist dickbags. What culture is that? I don't see or hear any of that. I know there is racism. Just don't see anyone thinking that is cool.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 22:11:32 GMT -6
Or the culture that now teaches young white kids that it's cool and "edgy" to be racist dickbags. What culture is that? I don't see or hear any of that. I know there is racism. Just don't see anyone thinking that is cool. There's a lot of it online. Pepe the Frog. Racist or Neo-Nazi memes on social media sites that adults don't use. The "Alt. Right." All that BS that thinks it's cool to troll people with racist crap. Most of the kids don't really understand where it's coming from, but they see it, think it's funny and rebellious because it's offensive and gets a rise out of people, and then they repeat it. That's what these kids were doing, I think. I've had kids at the middle school I teach at drawing Pepe memes, carving swastikas into desks, or switching the background pics on school computer to pics of Pepe dressed as a Nazi. I don't think they actually mean any harm with it, but it's not cool and they need to be taught as much. Some of my HS players have made references to that stuff at times and I imagine it's worse with older/smarter kids finding out about those trends and latching on before adults know about it.
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Post by silkyice on Sept 12, 2017 5:22:31 GMT -6
What culture is that? I don't see or hear any of that. I know there is racism. Just don't see anyone thinking that is cool. There's a lot of it online. Pepe the Frog. Racist or Neo-Nazi memes on social media sites that adults don't use. The "Alt. Right." All that BS that thinks it's cool to troll people with racist crap. Most of the kids don't really understand where it's coming from, but they see it, think it's funny and rebellious because it's offensive and gets a rise out of people, and then they repeat it. That's what these kids were doing, I think. I've had kids at the middle school I teach at drawing Pepe memes, carving swastikas into desks, or switching the background pics on school computer to pics of Pepe dressed as a Nazi. I don't think they actually mean any harm with it, but it's not cool and they need to be taught as much. Some of my HS players have made references to that stuff at times and I imagine it's worse with older/smarter kids finding out about those trends and latching on before adults know about it. Just haven't come across that, but doesn't mean my kids haven't. Thanks for the heads up.
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Post by blb on Sept 12, 2017 6:00:32 GMT -6
Pardon my ignorance, but who or what is "Pepe the Frog"?
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