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Post by runitupthemiddle on Jan 22, 2016 22:33:53 GMT -6
Never heard this before as an excuse to miss off season weights. Anybody hear this one before? If so, what did you say to parent and kid? Remember I cant tell a kid it is mandatory but we all know it is. [ Ok I haven't read the responses just clicked on the thread but Isn't offseason weights during school? If so and they are skipping that's truancy , and there are requirements to be on a team of course, and this kid or kids don't seem to want to. And cross fit is stupid " ability to lose gainz" bro science And to quote the great Kenny powers " I play real sports, I ain't trying to be the best at exercising!"
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Jan 22, 2016 22:44:02 GMT -6
Very valid points. I feel that most coaches have a problem with the average crossfit box because the average box is run by people without much knowledge of strength and conditioning past the WODs. Is this crossfits fault? Absolutely! They "certify" these people and pass them off as knowledgeable trainers. What you are arguing for isn't the same as what most on here are arguing against. I have never had a problem with this because my career has been spent in poorer areas without the means to do crossfit. But you could say the same thing about usaw and Nsca certifications when somebody does something stupid. It doesn't protect against morons. No you can't ,because nsca and usaw aren't weekend certifications and nsca requires a degree and is required by all college strength coaches now, d2 in 3 years, then d3 and naia, they are now in the process of developing a high school certification of nsca because that's more than likely what will be required within the next 15 years.
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Jan 22, 2016 22:57:51 GMT -6
As someone else as said Why does cross fit get credit for kettle bell training Or medicine balls or ropes? Or tire flipping?
From what I remember when cross fit started around 2002-4 ish It was a ton of running, 400,800,200,120 and lots of body wt lifts/exercises Pull ups, chin ups, push ups, planks, crunches, lunges things like this
Fast forward 2010 And it's all of that still, but not as much running, with snatches, jerks cleans and strong men type excersie added and trx training
I know of team here Oklahoma did it , they lair their gainz, got smashed in powerlifting and man handled on the field, coach left, and they still haven't recovered from that year of 8-25 min wod of the day
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Jan 22, 2016 23:17:23 GMT -6
Take a lesson from the local HS in my area that decided to use crossfit to train their football team this past summer. They finished 1-8. Take it from a buddy of mine who uses it and they've been 2-3 rounds every year for the past three when that school was a perennial loser. It's not that easy to determine effectiveness. One of the toughest schools I've ever played did only circuits. Wins aren't a good indicator. So both those programs were straight garbage before the cross fort and circuits? And this turned it around Or as some people have stated, any program will work if the kids believe. Which in a way is true when it comes to strength , but not just any old program will maximizes gains in explosiveness , quickness and speed I've been part of bfs, very easy cookie cutter, great program, it's been around for 40 years and basically exactly the same now as then. I've been part of the joe defranco , amp , and his whole program he does , very good too, leans towards more of the advance and elite athlete And now I'm doing at my current school triphasic training, Mixed with the defranco warmup and mobility excersies with his speed and bfs speed components. And our GAINZ and speed have been off the charts! 4 and half weeks this summer average gain in squat was 65 pounds bench 35, average 40 time was decreased by .13 tenths seconds and pro shuttle by .25 We modified it for in season lifting, total body on Saturday lots of body wt stuff, Monday lower, with aux uppers And wed upper with aux lowers We increased and average of 10 Pounds in bench in season (12-1) some lineman jumped 35 Pounds again, squats stayed the same but we did have one kid go up 75. And since we maxed in December we already have a kid that has jumped 80 on squat and another 60. Out first power meet is next Friday, I'm really looking forwarded to seeing the progress . And we all are looking forwarded to it cause it is the first time we have been allowed by the school to compete!
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Jan 22, 2016 23:23:45 GMT -6
If the kid ends up being the best at his spot, more than likely he will play- unless he is a turd. I disagree with your notion that it does not matter how the kids get from A to B. I think it matters greatly. I believe it is important that the kids travel that road together. I have no issue putting 11 guys on the field that are completely bought in. Is participating in off-season workouts part of being bought in? Yes. Is that the only factor that determines if the kid sees the field in the fall? Absolutely not. In my experience, the kid that doesn't listen to me in the February, rarely listens to me in August. That player will never play for me. I suppose the issue isn't really crossfit so much as it is trust. But that is really two separate issues, isn't it? I mean, if a kid is disrespectful, a bad teammate, doesn't follow team rules, doesn't play his position the way he is coached to do it...well, obviously, that's clearly grounds for not playing a kid. What we are talking about is simply a kid who just wants to train somewhere else. And there are LOTS of reasons that kids might not be able to train in the high school weightroom. Maybe they play another sport or have a job or can't get a ride home after training. Maybe the guy who is running the weightroom after school never touched a weight and sits at his desk on his iPhone and doesn't coach up the kids who are lifting. Maybe the kid isn't getting pushed in the weightroom and needs a more competitive environment or a more challenging program. There can be all sorts of reasons. That doesn't make him a bad kid. If anything, I would think that coaches would appreciate a kid who shows that kind of initiative and ambition to take control of his own training. There are some really good S&C coaches on here...guys like silkyice , coachfloyd , windigo ...guys who are knowledgeable and have been under the bar in a big way and have produced some tremendous football players. The problem is that many schools simply don't have a guy like that. And if you DON'T have a guy who knows what he is doing (or...even worse, he THINKS he knows what he is doing), it can be a huge disservice to kids and, more importantly, kids can really be screwed up. As a coach, you need to have accountability, no doubt. I don't think that there is anything wrong with telling kids, "Hey...this is where we expect you to be strengthwise by the start of the season." And, when you test, and those kids aren't there, then they will probably get beat out by the kids who are there. Law of the jungle...only the strong survive! That's the great thing about football! So, for me, the trust issue is moot. It's not about about trust as much as it is about communicating your expectations to the kids. Those expectations need to get met either in the weightroom after school with the football coaches or down the street at Big Box Crossfit. Why would in this day an age would a kid have a hard time finding a ride? Before lift after school lift no problem Why isn't this kid in athletics? And if that's who is running your weight room, your school as a bigger problems than kids wanting to workout somewhere lese
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Jan 22, 2016 23:45:49 GMT -6
Well isn't that the prevailing attitude of every selfish kid in the off season and during the season? Often that attitude is a reflection of the parents as well.
You'll never know unless you give it a try.
Having witnessed- up close- hall of fame coaches being questioned on every move they made by know it all parents and players, I can honestly say that a person with that attitude is better off NOT BEING ON THE TEAM.
Its a very wise thing for coaches to keep records and send emails home when kids train and set records in the program. Let those who are not participating understand the progress THAT IS HAPPENING FOR THOSE THAT ARE INVOLVED.
I don't need to stick my foot in a wood chipper to know it's not a good idea. I am having a hard time understanding why some of you guys simply don't grasp that there are lots of guys running high school weight rooms who don't have any business doing so. And those kids are much better off training somewhere else. No amount of "team bonding" and all that crap will overcome some guy who doesn't know what he is doing. These guys are saying team building because they ARE the ones running the weight program , why would the head coach not be closely involved with it? Like i said before if your "s/c" is lazy and not qualified you have bigger problems in your school going on elsewhere I'm sure Obviously if this was the case , then the kid training elsewhere would be beneficial .
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Jan 23, 2016 0:04:06 GMT -6
Might be another thread completely, and I'm sure I'm about to get smacked with any number of internet tomatoes, but maybe there's somebody else in the wide world who feels the way I do. Don't we take this lifting weights stuff just a touch too seriously in our sport anyway? Every other sport in the world actually "does" the sport in the off-season. Basketball players hoop, baseball players hit and field etc. Other sports implement lifting as a supplement to training for the actual sport, for some reason when our season is over we don't do anything that resembles football at all for months and spend all of that time running around cones(carioca?)and lifting. I know football is a contact sport that requires strength more so than others, but MMA fighters and wrestlers don't even do as much lifting as we do, it's a supplement to the purpose, which is becoming better wrestlers/fighters, It feels to we lost our way somehow and everybody started putting the cart before the horse. I think if you lifted kids twice a week on squats/bench/chin-ups/cleans whatever, institute the principles of progressive overload so they get stronger,then spent the rest of the time working on actual football skills you'd be a lot better off. Well In my state football is the only sport that has actual limitations on practice . You can do what ever u want football wise in the period , helmets, balls only in offseason, but that's it. The other sports are basically free play monkey bars. Wrestling and basketball start oct 2 and basically can do full practices till school starts back in August , baseball softball no restrictions at all
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Post by 19delta on Jan 23, 2016 6:48:51 GMT -6
But that is really two separate issues, isn't it? I mean, if a kid is disrespectful, a bad teammate, doesn't follow team rules, doesn't play his position the way he is coached to do it...well, obviously, that's clearly grounds for not playing a kid. What we are talking about is simply a kid who just wants to train somewhere else. And there are LOTS of reasons that kids might not be able to train in the high school weightroom. Maybe they play another sport or have a job or can't get a ride home after training. Maybe the guy who is running the weightroom after school never touched a weight and sits at his desk on his iPhone and doesn't coach up the kids who are lifting. Maybe the kid isn't getting pushed in the weightroom and needs a more competitive environment or a more challenging program. There can be all sorts of reasons. That doesn't make him a bad kid. If anything, I would think that coaches would appreciate a kid who shows that kind of initiative and ambition to take control of his own training. There are some really good S&C coaches on here...guys like silkyice , coachfloyd , windigo ...guys who are knowledgeable and have been under the bar in a big way and have produced some tremendous football players. The problem is that many schools simply don't have a guy like that. And if you DON'T have a guy who knows what he is doing (or...even worse, he THINKS he knows what he is doing), it can be a huge disservice to kids and, more importantly, kids can really be screwed up. As a coach, you need to have accountability, no doubt. I don't think that there is anything wrong with telling kids, "Hey...this is where we expect you to be strengthwise by the start of the season." And, when you test, and those kids aren't there, then they will probably get beat out by the kids who are there. Law of the jungle...only the strong survive! That's the great thing about football! So, for me, the trust issue is moot. It's not about about trust as much as it is about communicating your expectations to the kids. Those expectations need to get met either in the weightroom after school with the football coaches or down the street at Big Box Crossfit. Why would in this day an age would a kid have a hard time finding a ride? Before lift after school lift no problem Why isn't this kid in athletics? And if that's who is running your weight room, your school as a bigger problems than kids wanting to workout somewhere lese What difference does "this day and age" make in whether or not a kid can get a ride? "before lift after school lift no problem"...what? I have no idea what this gibberish means. What is "athletics"? Do you mean another sport?
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Jan 27, 2016 11:27:24 GMT -6
But that is really two separate issues, isn't it? I mean, if a kid is disrespectful, a bad teammate, doesn't follow team rules, doesn't play his position the way he is coached to do it...well, obviously, that's clearly grounds for not playing a kid. What we are talking about is simply a kid who just wants to train somewhere else. And there are LOTS of reasons that kids might not be able to train in the high school weightroom. Maybe they play another sport or have a job or can't get a ride home after training. Maybe the guy who is running the weightroom after school never touched a weight and sits at his desk on his iPhone and doesn't coach up the kids who are lifting. Maybe the kid isn't getting pushed in the weightroom and needs a more competitive environment or a more challenging program. There can be all sorts of reasons. That doesn't make him a bad kid. If anything, I would think that coaches would appreciate a kid who shows that kind of initiative and ambition to take control of his own training. There are some really good S&C coaches on here...guys like silkyice , coachfloyd , windigo ...guys who are knowledgeable and have been under the bar in a big way and have produced some tremendous football players. The problem is that many schools simply don't have a guy like that. And if you DON'T have a guy who knows what he is doing (or...even worse, he THINKS he knows what he is doing), it can be a huge disservice to kids and, more importantly, kids can really be screwed up. As a coach, you need to have accountability, no doubt. I don't think that there is anything wrong with telling kids, "Hey...this is where we expect you to be strengthwise by the start of the season." And, when you test, and those kids aren't there, then they will probably get beat out by the kids who are there. Law of the jungle...only the strong survive! That's the great thing about football! So, for me, the trust issue is moot. It's not about about trust as much as it is about communicating your expectations to the kids. Those expectations need to get met either in the weightroom after school with the football coaches or down the street at Big Box Crossfit. Why would in this day an age would a kid have a hard time finding a ride? Before lift after school lift no problem Why isn't this kid in athletics?And if that's who is running your weight room, your school as a bigger problems than kids wanting to workout somewhere lese Not many states/districts have an athletics period. After reading your posts and hearing what others have posted about "athletics" periods it sounds awesome.
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Post by jlenwood on Jan 30, 2016 7:52:35 GMT -6
Take it from a buddy of mine who uses it and they've been 2-3 rounds every year for the past three when that school was a perennial loser. It's not that easy to determine effectiveness. One of the toughest schools I've ever played did only circuits. Wins aren't a good indicator. So both those programs were straight garbage before the cross fort and circuits? And this turned it around Or as some people have stated, any program will work if the kids believe. Which in a way is true when it comes to strength , but not just any old program will maximizes gains in explosiveness , quickness and speed I've been part of bfs, very easy cookie cutter, great program, it's been around for 40 years and basically exactly the same now as then. I've been part of the joe defranco , amp , and his whole program he does , very good too, leans towards more of the advance and elite athlete And now I'm doing at my current school triphasic training, Mixed with the defranco warmup and mobility excersies with his speed and bfs speed components. And our GAINZ and speed have been off the charts! 4 and half weeks this summer average gain in squat was 65 pounds bench 35, average 40 time was decreased by .13 tenths seconds and pro shuttle by .25 We modified it for in season lifting, total body on Saturday lots of body wt stuff, Monday lower, with aux uppers And wed upper with aux lowers We increased and average of 10 Pounds in bench in season (12-1) some lineman jumped 35 Pounds again, squats stayed the same but we did have one kid go up 75. And since we maxed in December we already have a kid that has jumped 80 on squat and another 60. Out first power meet is next Friday, I'm really looking forwarded to seeing the progress . And we all are looking forwarded to it cause it is the first time we have been allowed by the school to compete! I am certainly not doubting your program, but what will your gains be for the kid who stays with the program for an entire year. Those 75 pound gains for the kid who had that result will begin to drop to a 2 1/2 to 5 lb, maybe, gain per week. Any kid who has not lifted in a programmed manner will see significant gains when they start. The great thing about what you are doing is your kids have a set program they are following with a long term goal or outcome to work for, not just the HS equivalent of Crossfit, which is some coach picking a workout and coming in and writing it on the board and saying "here is what we are doing today".
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Post by murdr on Feb 3, 2016 5:20:10 GMT -6
Crossfit is mainsite stuff and mainsite stuff only.
Crossfitters make the definition so vague that they want you to believe that every form of exercise is Crossfit.
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