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Post by jeremyj1515 on May 19, 2021 13:27:04 GMT -6
Has conditioning been a problem in your games?
I am currently researching it.
We were constantly gassed at the end of games prior to doing 10 110's after practice.
We got better quickly when we conditioned last year.
Mostly 2 way players.
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Post by realdawg on May 19, 2021 14:58:24 GMT -6
Lord....how long does it take to do 10 110s after practice? I just can’t see getting much effort out of the kids doing that. But I’ve been wrong before. I like to do most of my conditioning prior to the start of our games and practice high enough tempo to where they get conditioned. Then run just a little in the middle of practice.
I also firmly believe you can run them all you want to. But they have to play their way into game shape. There is no way to simulate what the body goes through during a game.
Also, if you’re two way guys and they are 1 way guys. They are naturally gonna be fresher than you late in the game. We battle the scenario sometimes as a smaller school in our league.
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Post by jeremyj1515 on May 19, 2021 15:59:12 GMT -6
We blow the whistle every minute--so 10 minutes..
Not what i wanted to do but a tempo practice wasnt working .
quickly we got in shape and played better.
I hate it. I dont want to do it. But we just werent in shape.
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Post by jeremyj1515 on May 19, 2021 15:59:53 GMT -6
This was probably after game 5 we started doing this.
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Post by mrjvi on May 19, 2021 17:11:13 GMT -6
I believe there is anaerobic conditioning for football and what I call collision conditioning. Your ability to hit and take hits wears you out if you don't condition for it. Anaerobic conditioning doesn't prepare you to take 60-120 hits in a game by itself. We will go live (no takedowns) for 25 plays in a row at no slower than 30 seconds between plays. We do 25 more after water. Once per week. Seems to work for us though a small roster team like ours will honestly make me a little worried about fatigue injuries. Luckily we've only had a few in many years. Obviously we progress to that level over a couple weeks. I think they become tougher. If I had to pick one of those it would be collision conditioning. JUST MY OPINION.
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Post by chi5hi on May 19, 2021 17:17:04 GMT -6
Has conditioning been a problem in your games? I am currently researching it. We were constantly gassed at the end of games prior to doing 10 110's after practice. We got better quickly when we conditioned last year. Mostly 2 way players. 10 110's are boring. The kids hate that. in 44 years I've learned (stole from another coach) to have a popsicle day. We do it once a week. 4 team captains, and each chooses up sides for his team to run a 40 yard up and back relay. It's an elimination run. Sometimes there's a tie and we need a runoff. You get a 1st place..2nd...3rd...and a fourth place team. You get at least four 80 yard sprints from everyone and at their full speed. The eventual winning team gets popsicles (which I provide). I promise you that your guys will love it. The cheering for each other is amazing and the guys have fun, get a great workout, and what you as a coach will learn about the kids is valuable. The competition to run full pace is just wonderful because each kid never wants to let his team down. You can call two second penalties for someone who fails to circle the 40 yard cone, or who runs before his teammate has crossed the line. When you choose up sides, the "skills" get intermingled with the big uglies so each team is pretty well balanced. When you watch the big guys hoof out at their best effort, it's a good thing to see.
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Post by **** on May 19, 2021 19:24:25 GMT -6
I am a small school FTC guy.
No, we have not had issues with conditioning / being gassed at end of games.
I still have occasional kids ask for us to do conditioning (which makes no {censored} sense to me) and I tell them if they want to do more on their own go for it. Some try and then practice like {censored} the next 2 days and figure out maybe it's not such a good idea.
The same thing happens with lifting. Kids want to lift more and do less speed work. I tell them the same thing. They do extra work, get sore as {censored} for 3 days. Arent worth a {censored} and again figure out... Maybe the old way isn't such a good idea.
I've found it's almost always lineman kids wanting to do more (I was surprised). The athletes are doing so many other sports in the summer and running so many more miles and taking bigger hits throughout the season that they love it and never complain.
I will never go back to the old/traditional way as long as I am the HC.
Secondly... Don't be a FTC school/program. I like to win and it gives us an advantage being the smallest dog in our conference/classification.
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Post by 53 on May 19, 2021 19:29:36 GMT -6
10 110’s in 10 minutes.
If it works for you, that’s great. But also seems like a good way, to run off the big guys from playing football
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Post by coachlit on May 19, 2021 19:35:00 GMT -6
I am a small school FTC guy. No, we have not had issues with conditioning / being gassed at end of games. I still have occasional kids ask for us to do conditioning (which makes no {censored} sense to me) and I tell them if they want to do more on their own go for it. Some try and then practice like {censored} the next 2 days and figure out maybe it's not such a good idea. The same thing happens with lifting. Kids want to lift more and do less speed work. I tell them the same thing. They do extra work, get sore as {censored} for 3 days. Arent worth a {censored} and again figure out... Maybe the old way isn't such a good idea. I've found it's almost always lineman kids wanting to do more (I was surprised). The athletes are doing so many other sports in the summer and running so many more miles and taking bigger hits throughout the season that they love it and never complain. I will never go back to the old/traditional way as long as I am the HC. Secondly... Don't be a FTC school/program. I like to win and it gives us an advantage being the smallest dog in our conference/classification. FTC?
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Post by realdawg on May 20, 2021 3:59:41 GMT -6
Feed The Cats-its a relatively new strength and conditioning philosophy.....
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Post by 19delta on May 20, 2021 5:22:47 GMT -6
Has conditioning been a problem in your games? I am currently researching it. We were constantly gassed at the end of games prior to doing 10 110's after practice. We got better quickly when we conditioned last year. Mostly 2 way players. What were you guys doing prior to the 10 110s? Were you prioritizing speed reserve? I just can't see running 10 110s, with a one-minute rest between each, as particularly effective for developing either speed reserve or conditioning. First, given that it's probably taking the kids 15-20 (or more) seconds for each 110, you really aren't training the primary primary energy system utilized in football and second, there is no way the kids have enough rest between each 110 to be able to sprint. Is it possible that the biggest reason your team was "in shape" was not the 110s but simply the fact that it was halfway through the season and the players had finally adapted to the stress of football?
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Post by jlenwood on May 20, 2021 5:30:38 GMT -6
Has conditioning been a problem in your games? I am currently researching it. We were constantly gassed at the end of games prior to doing 10 110's after practice. We got better quickly when we conditioned last year. Mostly 2 way players. What was your justification for doing this? Is there any hard, fact based science that says running 1100 yards in 10 minutes is a productive way to increase "conditioning" for football. Not picking, I am being serious. If you are doing it because that's what you did as a player, or you heard another coach does this so it must work etc. I liken this to the strength coach who gets joy from making a kid puke at a workout, there is no good reason for that to happen. How about incorporating prowler pushes or sled work. Also, your not really doing anything for speed development here with the long runs. Again, not being "that guy" and calling you out, but I think if you really researched and put the time and study into this you find better ways to improve the cardio performance of your athletes.
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Post by macdiiddy on May 20, 2021 6:17:42 GMT -6
My knowledge of kinesiology and muscle development is little to none. Others here can start speaking another language when it comes to that stuff.
However, I always thought long sprinting is counter intuitive to football training. Unless you are a RB or WR, Running a 100 yard sprint does not mimic the game. Football is short sprints, more times than not, laterally, for 5 seconds at a time. Just like any sort of drill work you want to do for individual drills, I would think it is important to ask if you find players running 100 yard sprints when you turn on the film.
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Post by morris on May 20, 2021 6:24:28 GMT -6
Mostly two way players in the second largest classification in our state. The only “conditioning” problem we run into is because our 165 lb inside backer is having to take on much larger players. Like has been mentioned before that is more of a “body blow” conditioning issue.
I’m also pretty convinced that running like this and how many of us ran gassers were really tempo runs. Kids aren’t dumb and know how to pace themselves. So coaches thought it was gassers max effort when it was tempo runs.
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Post by IronmanFootball on May 20, 2021 6:40:54 GMT -6
Train them to be more powerful in the weight room and for their peak to be bar speed by camp, not 1RM. Peak bar speed again for conf play, again for playoffs, and again for the state title game.
Sprint-sprint, don't jog around. 5 sec sprints with 60sec rest / 10y. Time them on Freelap all off-season and push intent.
Phase your speed prog into tempos 2 weeks before camp starts. 6x 5 sec sprints with 35 sec rest, take 5 min off, do it again. But keep your curved sprints and COD/A days with 3-7s on and 35-60s off.
You have to 'practice contact' unless you have a senior heavy / experience heavy team that year. As a HC we always practiced with some contact, not a ton, just some. Better safe than sorry.
Practice gets you in practice shape, games get you in game shape, 110's get you in 110 shape.
Get better, not battered.
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Post by knight9299 on May 20, 2021 8:02:57 GMT -6
Mostly two way players in the second largest classification in our state. The only “conditioning” problem we run into is because our 165 lb inside backer is having to take on much larger players. Like has been mentioned before that is more of a “body blow” conditioning issue. I’m also pretty convinced that running like this and how many of us ran gassers were really tempo runs. Kids aren’t dumb and know how to pace themselves. So coaches thought it was gassers max effort when it was tempo runs. Agreed. Guys would 'pace' themselves until a coach chewed their butt- then magically they'd be faster. I've moved to less is more. Conditioning is as close to game movement as possible. Play like bursts, with in between play like rests. Also to more position specific distances.
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Post by Coach Vint on May 20, 2021 8:31:06 GMT -6
At a couple programs I was at we did a drill called chaos to start practice. It was good on good, O vs. D, running tempo for 5 minutes. Our goal was 20 plays in that period. Our 2's and JV guys were at the other end of the field doing the same thing. We started from the 40 and went in. If we scored, the ball went back to the 40. We were snapping the ball as quick as we could. That is a great way to condition at the start of practice. We then gave them a short water break after and went to Indy. All the guys that weren't in were running a sprint for 10 yards during the play, then lining up even with the ball and doing another sprint when the ball was snapped. We maybe had 15 guys or so doing that.
Early in my career we started and ended practice with 10's. We ran 5 10's, then took a 60 second break. Then we ran 5 tens, and took a 60 second break. Then we ran 4 20's. We wanted to simulate a game situation. It was a good way to build conditioning in an actual football way. I like the chaos period better.
As a DC, I did a version of pursuit where we lined up to formations, pursued the football, and had to quickly line back up and get a call and communicate. We would go three plays in a row. We then would have the 2's go. Then the 3's. Then do it again. We would run a toss, in inside run, or a pass. That way they didn't know what was coming. It was a way to condition and practice lining up and communicating tired. I think the more football related you can make it the better it will be.
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Post by Defcord on May 20, 2021 8:33:32 GMT -6
I am not a scientist and I damnn sure don't want to go run any 110s either. We don't do any runs like 10 110's because we feel like we have to prioritize other actions.
I don't know the complete science with anaerobic and ATP and all the different energy systems BUT anecdotally, I know when I was a player the more I ran (distance and short yardage) the better shape I was in on the field. Maybe it was just a placebo but I know conditioning made a positive difference. Was it worth dedicating the time to conditioning? I do not know that. But it wasn't a completely unproductive period of time.
I don't think there is really a right answer on conditioning. I think doing everything based on science and evidence is great and should be the primary force in decision making but there is some flexibility and fluidity in maximizing outcomes.
I don't mind a little extra running to get kids to struggle. I worry all the time as a parent that my son under performs when he is out of his comfort zone and the tasks he faces cause him to struggle. I have the same worry for our players. I know this isn't a primary reason to condition more, but conditioning can play a role in challenging players without having a negative impact as long as the coaches are smart about the application of the drills.
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Post by IronmanFootball on May 20, 2021 9:15:04 GMT -6
I am not a scientist and I damnn sure don't want to go run any 110s either. We don't do any runs like 10 110's because we feel like we have to prioritize other actions. I don't know the complete science with anaerobic and ATP and all the different energy systems BUT anecdotally, I know when I was a player the more I ran (distance and short yardage) the better shape I was in on the field. Maybe it was just a placebo but I know conditioning made a positive difference. Was it worth dedicating the time to conditioning? I do not know that. But it wasn't a completely unproductive period of time. I don't think there is really a right answer on conditioning. I think doing everything based on science and evidence is great and should be the primary force in decision making but there is some flexibility and fluidity in maximizing outcomes. I don't mind a little extra running to get kids to struggle. I worry all the time as a parent that my son under performs when he is out of his comfort zone and the tasks he faces cause him to struggle. I have the same worry for our players. I know this isn't a primary reason to condition more, but conditioning can play a role in challenging players without having a negative impact as long as the coaches are smart about the application of the drills. This is why I like bandit ball. Continuous movement, actual football being played, change the snap count, everyone gets work, and it's fast paced for "conditioning" It requires you to keep your mind focused on the task while tired, and under stress while still doing football plays
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Post by wildcatslbcoach24 on May 20, 2021 9:17:17 GMT -6
In the past we did something similar where you would run your Indy or other period, a whistle blue and we got in what was essentially a a down and back gasser as its 53 1/3 yards so 106 2/3 yards. We’d get the reps in and go pretty fast tempo in space. We had 22 kids total on the team and unless we ended up being completely overmatched by teams 2+ divisions above us we had no issues with conditioning. In summer, make sure if it’s a speed day to do running first thing, you can do conditioning running after lifting.
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Post by blb on May 20, 2021 11:13:14 GMT -6
If you feel it necessary to do Conditioning of some sort at end of practice try to make it "fun" ("Concealed Running").
Otherwise you might be better off finishing with Flexibility ("Static Stretching") on your heavy work days.
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Post by mrjvi on May 20, 2021 11:46:29 GMT -6
I had one player back in 2000 who went to Syracuse after HS and then played 7 years pro. When he was training for college in the summer he was doing the 10 x 110's. He knew it wasn't FB specific. He asked them why when he went to Syracuse that fall. He told me they just laughed and said that it was what everyone did. He said the linemen who did the worst were most of the starters. Too big for that stuff. Colleges sometimes do well despite their conditioning philosophies. A little off topic but interesting.
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Post by realdawg on May 21, 2021 4:00:57 GMT -6
I do think there is a time and place to do some 100s or 110s, not as much for conditioning as it is for mental toughness......I know some will say there are some other ways to build mental toughness, and I agree there are. BUT....I do think you have to put your kids in adverse situations and encourage them to fight through them.
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Post by morris on May 21, 2021 4:11:26 GMT -6
I get some people running 110 or things like that to get a kid to fight through that mental wall. That they can make it or they can do hard things. I think you can do the same thing in the weight room or high tempo periods or periods that are very mentally taxing. Inside run for us is like that. It is at a ridiculous tempo with fresh defenders being rotated in. I believe that is as physically and mentally taxing as running 110.
Having kids take 4-8 reps in a row quickly is another way to do it. Just watch form build to it. Once form starts going to crap get them out and keep building.
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Post by blb on May 21, 2021 6:08:55 GMT -6
I do think there is a time and place to do some 100s or 110s, not as much for conditioning as it is for mental toughness......I know some will say there are some other ways to build mental toughness, and I agree there are. BUT....I do think you have to put your kids in adverse situations and encourage them to fight through them. To be good at Football kids have to learn to take pride in doing difficult things well.
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Post by tripsclosed on May 21, 2021 11:44:56 GMT -6
Does anyone sprinkle quick conditioning periods throughout practice instead of doing it all at once at the beginning or end of practice? If you do, how has it gone for you? Seems like it could help take away the dread of "Oh man now we gotta do conditioning" for players, as well as helping to keep practice overall, dynamic...
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Post by larrymoe on May 21, 2021 12:07:10 GMT -6
Does anyone sprinkle quick conditioning periods throughout practice instead of doing it all at once at the beginning or end of practice? If you do, how has it gone for you? Seems like it could help take away the dread of "Oh man now we gotta do conditioning" for players, as well as helping to keep practice overall, dynamic... That's exactly what we did. Our usual offensive day went like this- Dynamic warm up Conditioning 1- the hardest we'd do of the day Indy Indy group conditioning- as OL coach we usually pushed the sled Inside run/7on7 DBD- down back down across the field- done for time that if not achieved we did it again- time got faster as the year progressed Team Usually a very quick conditioning if we felt practice had been lethargic- if not we were done.
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Post by tripsclosed on May 21, 2021 13:03:10 GMT -6
Does anyone sprinkle quick conditioning periods throughout practice instead of doing it all at once at the beginning or end of practice? If you do, how has it gone for you? Seems like it could help take away the dread of "Oh man now we gotta do conditioning" for players, as well as helping to keep practice overall, dynamic... That's exactly what we did. Our usual offensive day went like this- Dynamic warm up Conditioning 1- the hardest we'd do of the day Indy Indy group conditioning- as OL coach we usually pushed the sled Inside run/7on7 DBD- down back down across the field- done for time that if not achieved we did it again- time got faster as the year progressed Team Usually a very quick conditioning if we felt practice had been lethargic- if not we were done. Awesome. Like the time thing, like coaches said above about players pacing themselves
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Post by larrymoe on May 21, 2021 13:12:43 GMT -6
Not everyone always made the time, but we weren't going to punish the whole team because of that one OL.
Also, I usually timed the sled push. I can't remember the times, but for some reason 10 seconds a go seems right. Everything we did conditioning wise always had the carrot attached that if we saw maximum effort we'd shorten it.
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Post by blb on May 21, 2021 13:15:35 GMT -6
Not everyone always made the time, but we weren't going to punish the whole team because of that one OL. Also, I usually timed the sled push. I can't remember the times, but for some reason 10 seconds a go seems right. Everything we did conditioning wise always had the carrot attached that if we saw maximum effort we'd shorten it. One of the nice things about being HC was my watch was always right.
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