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Post by **** on May 21, 2021 13:37:06 GMT -6
The Navy Seals never made anyone tough. They just found the tough people who were willing to stay in the Navy Seals.
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Post by blb on May 21, 2021 13:42:57 GMT -6
The Navy Seals never made anyone tough. They just found the tough people who were willing to stay in the Navy Seals. How do you know that? And - what does that have to do with 14-18 year olds and HS Football? |
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Post by larrymoe on May 21, 2021 14:00:31 GMT -6
Not everyone always made the time, but we weren't going to punish the whole team because of that one OL. Also, I usually timed the sled push. I can't remember the times, but for some reason 10 seconds a go seems right. Everything we did conditioning wise always had the carrot attached that if we saw maximum effort we'd shorten it. One of the nice things about being HC was my watch was always right. Agreed. |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2021 14:29:03 GMT -6
The Navy Seals never made anyone tough. They just found the tough people who were willing to stay in the Navy Seals. How do you know that? And - what does that have to do with 14-18 year olds and HS Football? they don’t force anybody into submission/quitting. They being the seal instructors. |
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Post by larrymoe on May 21, 2021 14:37:23 GMT -6
How do you know that? And - what does that have to do with 14-18 year olds and HS Football? they don’t force anybody into submission/quitting. They being the seal instructors. The Seals also draw from the top 1% of the top 1%. Give me the best of the best in the country and I'll probably win a lot of games playing Operation every day in practice. They're not dealing with 300lb Billy Bob who still hasn't removed his mouth from Mommy's teat. |
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Post by irishdog on May 21, 2021 18:50:38 GMT -6
Been coaching small school football (iron man) football for most of my career. To help with our conditioning my teams play "the game" on Mondays. We review, preview, work fundamentals, and condition them. Practice time is 90 minutes. When we're done with the 90 minutes our guys remove their shoulder pads (helmets stay on). We divide them up into two groups (speed guys in one group and wannabes in the other). We run 12 15 yard sprints 4 times. The number 12 represents the minutes we play in each quarter. The 15 yards is approximately the average distance we run for each play. And 4 times represents the quarters we play in a game. Each group has a minimum time to meet for each sprint, and 30 seconds between each sprint to recover. After 2 "quarters" they get a 5 minute rest (halftime), and then finish the last 2 quarters. All guys in each group MUST meet the minimum time for their group for EVERY sprint. If they don't we'll do an "overtime" 5th quarter. If we get great effort from every kid for every sprint we'll cut one sprint from the third and fourth quarters as incentive. But... we make it very clear they will NOT be rewarded if there are ANY loafs in ANY group to prevent the faster guys from "coasting" if they are consistently beating their groups time minimum..
Early in the year the whole "game" takes about 20 minutes. Middle of the season the average is 15 minutes. Late in the season we're in pretty good physical shape and will just run some 40's as a team on Mondays to finish Monday practice.
We demand up-tempo game effort in everything we do, and find that "the game" helps us get the boys into football shape much more quickly.
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Post by **** on May 21, 2021 20:18:25 GMT -6
The Navy Seals never made anyone tough. They just found the tough people who were willing to stay in the Navy Seals. How do you know that? And - what does that have to do with 14-18 year olds and HS Football? How do you know it’s not correct? What doesn’t it have to do with 14-18 year olds and Hs football? |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2021 2:41:22 GMT -6
they don’t force anybody into submission/quitting. They being the seal instructors. The Seals also draw from the top 1% of the top 1%. Give me the best of the best in the country and I'll probably win a lot of games playing Operation every day in practice. They're not dealing with 300lb Billy Bob who still hasn't removed his mouth from Mommy's teat. I would argue they get the 1 pct, but its not the 1pct of the elite of society, or any one group. Its what makes it sort of an oddity. They are not getting through the most talented, physically gifted, or intelligent. I would suggest they create an atmosphere where they get the guys who want to be their. |
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Post by fantom on May 22, 2021 7:33:08 GMT -6
The Seals also draw from the top 1% of the top 1%. Give me the best of the best in the country and I'll probably win a lot of games playing Operation every day in practice. They're not dealing with 300lb Billy Bob who still hasn't removed his mouth from Mommy's teat. I would argue they get the 1 pct, but its not the 1pct of the elite of society, or any one group. Its what makes it sort of an oddity. They are not getting through the most talented, physically gifted, or intelligent. I would suggest they create an atmosphere where they get the guys who want to be their. There is no shortage in candidates who hope to become SEALS. No matter how many wash out of a SEAL candidate class there's another rotation coming in after them. In HS football if a kid quits nobody is going to replace him. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2021 7:49:29 GMT -6
I would argue they get the 1 pct, but its not the 1pct of the elite of society, or any one group. Its what makes it sort of an oddity. They are not getting through the most talented, physically gifted, or intelligent. I would suggest they create an atmosphere where they get the guys who want to be their. There is no shortage in candidates who hope to become SEALS. No matter how many wash out of a SEAL candidate class there's another rotation coming in after them. In HS football if a kid quits nobody is going to replace him. Somebody is always....not the same guy...but somebody is always coming.... |
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Post by larrymoe on May 22, 2021 9:37:16 GMT -6
There is no shortage in candidates who hope to become SEALS. No matter how many wash out of a SEAL candidate class there's another rotation coming in after them. In HS football if a kid quits nobody is going to replace him. Somebody is always....not the same guy...but somebody is always coming.... In my area 4 schools of over 1000 kids enrollment canceled their seasons this spring because they didn't have enough kids to play. About half the smallest schools in our area have dropped to 8 man football in the last 3 years. There aren't more kids coming. |
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Post by blb on May 22, 2021 9:58:22 GMT -6
Comparing teenage kids who play an Interscholastic game primarily for fun to Navy SEALS is not realistic.
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Post by CS on May 22, 2021 10:47:41 GMT -6
Comparing teenage kids who play an Interscholastic game primarily for fun to Navy SEALS is not realistic. But that’s the point he is trying to make. Playing football isn’t being in the military and doing mindless running to make kids “tough” is a quick way to make them hate coming. And in today’s world of kids having a sh!t load of things to do that’s a recipe for small roster sizes. I’m not saying kids shouldn’t do hard things. I believe max effort lifting and sprinting teaches them to strain and shows them they can do hard sh!t. Plus when they start building muscle their attitudes change drastically |
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Post by blb on May 22, 2021 11:36:43 GMT -6
Comparing teenage kids who play an Interscholastic game primarily for fun to Navy SEALS is not realistic. But that’s the point he is trying to make. Playing football isn’t being in the military and doing mindless running to make kids “tough” is a quick way to make them hate coming. And in today’s world of kids having a sh!t load of things to do that’s a recipe for small roster sizes. I’m not saying kids shouldn’t do hard things. I believe max effort lifting and sprinting teaches them to strain and shows them they can do hard sh!t. Plus when they start building muscle their attitudes change drastically Fair enough. But - to play devil's advocate - where's the line? Kids want to play Football in the Fall, but don't want to lift 11 months out of the year? Or do 7-on-7s and camps in the Summer? |
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Post by CS on May 22, 2021 11:59:06 GMT -6
But that’s the point he is trying to make. Playing football isn’t being in the military and doing mindless running to make kids “tough” is a quick way to make them hate coming. And in today’s world of kids having a sh!t load of things to do that’s a recipe for small roster sizes. I’m not saying kids shouldn’t do hard things. I believe max effort lifting and sprinting teaches them to strain and shows them they can do hard sh!t. Plus when they start building muscle their attitudes change drastically Fair enough. But - to play devil's advocate - where's the line? Kids want to play Football in the Fall, but don't want to lift 11 months out of the year? Or do 7-on-7s and camps in the Summer? 7 on 7s are fun. Team camps are fun. Getting stronger makes them feel bada$$. Running 110’s for conditioning is dumb and boring. Way better ways to get into shape |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2021 13:19:53 GMT -6
FOOTBALL Coaches have to cut the bullcrap.
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Post by blb on May 22, 2021 13:23:18 GMT -6
FOOTBALL Coaches have to cut the bullcrap. And - according to you, the "bullcrap" is - What? |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2021 13:55:02 GMT -6
FOOTBALL Coaches have to cut the bullcrap. And - according to you, the "bullcrap" is - What? Bible studies, book studies. 2 hrs to do a 30 minute work out..Team building activities, sermons, I am a father figure non sense, 3 hr practices..we are football coaches. That’s it. We put a lot crap into this that doesnt belong. Almost every other sport in Hs, its game after game after game in practice. |
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Post by blb on May 22, 2021 14:12:34 GMT -6
And - according to you, the "bullcrap" is - What? Bible studies, book studies. 2 hrs to do a 30 minute work out..Team building activities, sermons, I am a father figure non sense, 3 hr practices..we are football coaches. That’s it. We put a lot crap into this that doesnt belong. Almost every other sport in Hs, its game after game after game in practice. Curious why YOU decided to become a HS teacher-football coach? |
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Post by larrymoe on May 22, 2021 14:27:09 GMT -6
That was the same question I had.
As an addition- did you play football at any point?
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2021 14:45:46 GMT -6
Bible studies, book studies. 2 hrs to do a 30 minute work out..Team building activities, sermons, I am a father figure non sense, 3 hr practices..we are football coaches. That’s it. We put a lot crap into this that doesnt belong. Almost every other sport in Hs, its game after game after game in practice. Curious why YOU decided to become a HS teacher-football coach? only reason I got a degree was to coach football. And the reason I got my degree in history. I never ever considered this a crusade to save kids. I am not in this with some delusion that kids eat nuts and kale or some of this being some military boot camp.Football is more important to me than the kids. By a long shot. And I don’t believe for one that kids buy my bs. |
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Post by **** on May 22, 2021 14:52:55 GMT -6
Comparing teenage kids who play an Interscholastic game primarily for fun to Navy SEALS is not realistic. Glad we can agree on that |
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Post by fantom on May 22, 2021 15:04:05 GMT -6
I'm not even sure who's arguing with who anymore. Maybe it's time to get back to talking about conditioning at small schools.
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Post by irishdog on May 22, 2021 16:00:48 GMT -6
I have found as the years have gone by that less is more, and it's not the amount of hours you make them work, it's the amount of work they put into the hours that matters.
Years ago, when I was a young coach I was ridiculous about the commitment I made for the team. Four days per week. 2 hours each day. M-T-Th-F. Then...along came football camps. Then...along came 7 on 7 competitions. Then...along came year-round basketball. Then...along came year-round baseball. Then...along came year-round robotics. Then long term vacays. Then...a lot of MIA's and parent complaints. Then...(I'm sure you get my drift by now).
Today, weight training takes no longer than 50 minutes per session 3 days per week during the off-season (Winter and Spring sports seasons). If they are participating in another sport they are encouraged to show up on days they don't have games. We have an AM session for guys that practice in the afternoons, and a PM session for the guys who practice early mornings. We only "condition" the guys who aren't involved in a sport, after the weight session and lasts for 10 minutes. Altogether I only ask for a 3 hour commitment of their time (or less depending upon on how many sports they choose to play). Small schools cannot afford to have their best athletes not involved in competition.
During the summer we meet 3 times per week for weights (M-W-Th). Again 50 minutes of up-tempo work. During the summer we'll spend more time outside with football stuff. Tuesdays in June the big skills will meet after weights for 30 minutes, and Tuesday nights in June the skill guys meet for 7 on 7 competition (2-20 minute "games" with a running clock). We don't meet during the week of July 4, and the last week of July is our state's dead week. We let the parents know the first week of May what our summer schedule will be for football (including August) so they can plan their family vacays accordingly. Again, altogether during the summer I'm asking for only about a 4 hour per week commitment from them. Gives them the opportunity to compete in the other sports they play, and by the time August arrives they're in pretty good shape. Best part is that the parents (and the boys) really appreciate the fact we aren't about overkill, and that they get 3 day weekends. My staff's wives and kids also like it!
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Post by aceback76 on May 22, 2021 16:18:41 GMT -6
Try Chuck Noll's "STEELERS". 3 Sets of them (one day per week). Run around outline of entire field (down the sideline 120 yds, & around the end lines (53 1/3 yds.). Timed by Defensive positions.
1. DLM = 70 seconds
2. LBers = 65 seconds
3. Secondary = 60 seconds.
The group goes in that order - first #1, then #2, then #3 = then start over again.
We do 3 sets of Don Shula's "GASSERS" 1 day a week. Read his discussion of them in his book "he Winning Edge". The "Steelers", and the "Gassers" are great conditioners.
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Post by 19delta on May 22, 2021 16:44:19 GMT -6
Didn't some goober in upstate New York get a kid killed doing that SEAL team log lift thing? The log slipped and crushed a kid?
Yeah...no thanks.
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Post by Victor on May 22, 2021 19:18:15 GMT -6
If you have enough staff I strongly recommend a FTC, not exactly the same but a oriented one, approach. HUNH when aligned with proper weight lifting and speed work can make a team look WAY better "just" because of the fundamentals (you gonna have more time on that and less on plays, much because your playbook won't be thick), true football conditioning, speed work and proper weight lifting.
You can work whatever scheme you want, but you need to make it consistent with "less is more" approach. It could be any variation of wing-t, double wing, single wing, pro style, zone, facemelter, air raid. All you need is a scheme that one guy misses/is at the wrong spot and be ready for an explosive play, heck, even a TD. This approach appears to look better when you:
- Have passing plays to exploit speed like: well throw fade, mills, screens, pop pass, etc;
- Have passing plays to exploit grass that one missed tackle and it's over: slants, snag, mesh, shallow cross, shallow screen, nakeds, etc;
- Sound ground game: run inside to open up outside, run inside to counter it, run outside to run inside, reverses, etc.
The key point is the whole program needs to be on same page. All the talk during the practice is limited, due to the fact the total time required is less than usual, you can teach before or after. When all program's aspects match, also, it will bring $w4g on the right way. I take one small/undersized/slim confident tough SOB (assuming he is doing all the work) over any other kind of player.
Hope it's not a random rant lol
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Post by Victor on May 22, 2021 19:28:11 GMT -6
Train them to be more powerful in the weight room and for their peak to be bar speed by camp, not 1RM. Peak bar speed again for conf play, again for playoffs, and again for the state title game. Sprint-sprint, don't jog around. 5 sec sprints with 60sec rest / 10y. Time them on Freelap all off-season and push intent. Phase your speed prog into tempos 2 weeks before camp starts. 6x 5 sec sprints with 35 sec rest, take 5 min off, do it again. But keep your curved sprints and COD/A days with 3-7s on and 35-60s off. You have to 'practice contact' unless you have a senior heavy / experience heavy team that year. As a HC we always practiced with some contact, not a ton, just some. Better safe than sorry. Practice gets you in practice shape, games get you in game shape, 110's get you in 110 shape. Get better, not battered. Coach, please, do you mind to share more about the speed approach, just like you did with the weight room work? |
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Post by **** on May 22, 2021 21:04:27 GMT -6
I'm not even sure who's arguing with who anymore. Maybe it's time to get back to talking about conditioning at small schools. I think all small schools should continue to do navy seal style workouts based around making kids tough and we will continue to take a FTC approach. I like to win. |
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Post by IronmanFootball on May 23, 2021 5:30:04 GMT -6
Train them to be more powerful in the weight room and for their peak to be bar speed by camp, not 1RM. Peak bar speed again for conf play, again for playoffs, and again for the state title game. Sprint-sprint, don't jog around. 5 sec sprints with 60sec rest / 10y. Time them on Freelap all off-season and push intent. Phase your speed prog into tempos 2 weeks before camp starts. 6x 5 sec sprints with 35 sec rest, take 5 min off, do it again. But keep your curved sprints and COD/A days with 3-7s on and 35-60s off. You have to 'practice contact' unless you have a senior heavy / experience heavy team that year. As a HC we always practiced with some contact, not a ton, just some. Better safe than sorry. Practice gets you in practice shape, games get you in game shape, 110's get you in 110 shape. Get better, not battered. Coach, please, do you mind to share more about the speed approach, just like you did with the weight room work? Sure. Since 2015 I've used Dale Baskett's programming for speed days (He updated it again around 2018). If you have 4 sessions / week in the summer, two can be used for Dale and if you have 6 weeks you'd complete his program (Sessions 1 and 2 in week 1, and so on). Now I also use some FTC methods, obviously, and where Dale didn't time I time 2-3 sprints at the end of the workout. Intent, growth #'s, intrinsic motivation, extrinsic motivation (wristbands for growth, effort, or one of those WOW performances). Time their 20y on speed day 1 and their fly10 on speed day 2. The other two days I would do a progressive COD/Agility program day and a Curved Sprints day. You can even time 2-3 sprints on those days. COD/Agility could be a zig-zag run and the goal is to have both directions within .01 of each other (balance) and you can do static 10 vs your backwards fly 10 (20y) on a curved day. I have a COD/agility program I tweak all the time. I'm currently using it on myself and my wife collecting a lot of data but also on private clients and just finished up with a softball team. |
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