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Post by fantom on Jul 22, 2017 16:52:20 GMT -6
If you break any rule 3 times in what I consider a privileged community, you're out. The NFL shouldn't spend their money as long as they get it for free. It was all hypothetical. What rule? Missed curfew? Skipped breakfast? Cutting class? |
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Post by Defcord on Jul 22, 2017 18:51:45 GMT -6
I started watching season 2 right after I finished season 2 of all or nothing. I was compelled by the difference between John Fassel and Buddy Stephen as coaches and reality characters.
As for Last Chance U season 2 I would note Stephens may be trying to clean up his act with his language and personality good for him. BUT if I ever worked for a guy that talked to me like he talks to some of his assisntants, we would have problems. I take a very deliberate approach to dealing with temper and anger. And as an assistant the HC is always right. That being said I am no angel and his mouth and my fist might accidentally have to have a meeting behind closed doors.
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Post by dubber on Jul 22, 2017 18:52:40 GMT -6
1. I'm not in Heaven's Admissions Department so I won't comment. 2. What violations? 3. The NFL is a private enterprise. Why would they sponsor anything like that? ]3. This could be a long answer, but in short, because the NFL is a private enterprise. Aren't private enterprises profit seeking by way of the best product possible? I think we can all agree that there are MANY, MANY athletes that are not legitimate students. Why do they exist? Because the NCAA is looking for the best product also. For historical reasons and the draft rules the NCAA (college sports) is the NFL's R&D department. If college sports ceased to exist, do you think the NFL would close shop? No. Are they going to put 18 year old kids on the field? Not for the most part. I could go on but hopefully you see the point. The part of my original post about alternatives was in reference to other post suggesting something similar. By en large I believe everyone's "product" would be just fine without the few that tarnish the system. But that just begs the question of why bother with them to begin with. Does a kid who can't read on a HS level deserve paper from North Carolina, or anywhere for that matter? Why in the heck is there a sliding scale for athletes, among so many other exceptions? The answer is easily traceable and for the most part has nothing to do with "saving lives", or opportunity. IMO, there is a trickle down effect all the way to small ball parents and coaches. Last Chance U puts making the sausage on display and magnifies the inherent problems of the entire system. "Why bother with them to begin with?" I don't know if you played college football, but for every "just there to ball" guy, there is a guy who would not have gone to college otherwise and accidentally ends up learning and furthering themselves. This show focuses on the stars, but there a bunch of guys going D2 and getting an education. Hell, I got kids on my high school football team who SHOULD QUIT HIGH SCHOOL RIGHT NOW and start working on the farm, cause that's the end of the line for them anyway.....but every now and then, one of them ends up deciding to try something different......and hell, they would have never gotten the chance if we wrote them off at 15. Probably shouldn't write a kid off at 20 either. Yes, does what you're describing go on....absolutely JC uses kids, kids use JC.....NCAA uses kids, NFL uses NCAA, etc....... But you can't discount all the good that comes from chasing the league and accidentally finding a degree and your purpose. |
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Post by wolverine55 on Jul 22, 2017 20:32:05 GMT -6
Just got done with episode four where Dakota Allen mentioned spending a weekend at Ole Miss and "falling in love with their campus and women." Knowing what we know now...is it an unsafe assumption that those women were actually Ole Miss students?
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Post by blb on Jul 23, 2017 6:20:53 GMT -6
Just got done with episode four where Dakota Allen mentioned spending a weekend at Ole Miss and "falling in love with their campus and women." Knowing what we know now...is it an unsafe assumption that those women were actually Ole Miss students?
Ole Miss has long enjoyed a reputation for beautiful coeds.
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Post by option1 on Jul 23, 2017 6:45:42 GMT -6
]3. This could be a long answer, but in short, because the NFL is a private enterprise. Aren't private enterprises profit seeking by way of the best product possible? I think we can all agree that there are MANY, MANY athletes that are not legitimate students. Why do they exist? Because the NCAA is looking for the best product also. For historical reasons and the draft rules the NCAA (college sports) is the NFL's R&D department. If college sports ceased to exist, do you think the NFL would close shop? No. Are they going to put 18 year old kids on the field? Not for the most part. I could go on but hopefully you see the point. The part of my original post about alternatives was in reference to other post suggesting something similar. By en large I believe everyone's "product" would be just fine without the few that tarnish the system. But that just begs the question of why bother with them to begin with. Does a kid who can't read on a HS level deserve paper from North Carolina, or anywhere for that matter? Why in the heck is there a sliding scale for athletes, among so many other exceptions? The answer is easily traceable and for the most part has nothing to do with "saving lives", or opportunity. IMO, there is a trickle down effect all the way to small ball parents and coaches. Last Chance U puts making the sausage on display and magnifies the inherent problems of the entire system. "Why bother with them to begin with?" I don't know if you played college football, but for every "just there to ball" guy, there is a guy who would not have gone to college otherwise and accidentally ends up learning and furthering themselves. This show focuses on the stars, but there a bunch of guys going D2 and getting an education. Hell, I got kids on my high school football team who SHOULD QUIT HIGH SCHOOL RIGHT NOW and start working on the farm, cause that's the end of the line for them anyway.....but every now and then, one of them ends up deciding to try something different......and hell, they would have never gotten the chance if we wrote them off at 15. Probably shouldn't write a kid off at 20 either. Yes, does what you're describing go on....absolutely JC uses kids, kids use JC.....NCAA uses kids, NFL uses NCAA, etc....... But you can't discount all the good that comes from chasing the league and accidentally finding a degree and your purpose. I completely agree with this. But I don't know about the trade-off because for every "just there to ball" guy there's a kid who might not be as good, but deserves to be there, that gets left out. "Zero tolerance" evens the playing field and I believe in time could dramatically clean things up. We're talking about giving chances just based on athletic ability. We're talking about entitlement. Yes I did play college football and I was "that kid". Not because I was good but because I was stupid. Getting booted out of school saved my life. Because of that experience I can't help but feel as if I am a small part of directly enabling the "system" and it bugs the crap out of me. As coaches we see it on all levels, from the ones that deserve it and don't get it and vice versa. If you have started watching season 2, #6 from Jones (DE) was our kid. He went big D1, ended up at Jones and now is at a D2. We also have a kid at UNC right now and while I love him, and he will make it, probably doesn't deserve to be there. He is a "just there to ball" guy but will never get into trouble. During his recruiting process I had a soccer player with all world grades, SAT scores, community hours, etc. She didn't care about college soccer and is in school for all the right reasons. She got put on a "wait and see" list to go to UNC and got accepted at the last minute. You know all this stuff happens but to witness it first hand hits home. Then I see these guys at Last Chance U and it's just frustrating all over again. |
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Post by The Lunch Pail on Jul 23, 2017 8:38:20 GMT -6
I've just started watching the show. Here's my thoughts (As of S1 Episode 5):
Buddy sounds more like an angry fan yelling at his TV than an actual coach. He's a prime example of how douchey coaches look when they constantly give results-oriented coaching ("wrap up", "catch the ball", etc) and not detail-oriented coaching that tells the players what they can improve on. Not to mention the dude is simply negative about everything and has a fragile ego and temper. He's literally a real-life Bud Kilmer.
John Franklin has a terrible attitude. I would never want to recruit that kid. He's a bad kid who's stuck in his ways and feels entitled to everything. I can't stand him. And clearly, the talent doesn't exactly outweigh the character. Auburn definitely made a mistake with this kid.
Ms. Wagner is a good woman with her heart in the right place. I wish she wouldn't coddle them through school as much as she does, but at least you can genuinely see she cares about these kids and not just their win/loss record.
The mentality of a lot of these kids disgusts me. The fact that they don't care about the team at all. And I get that its not like these kids grew up working their arses off to get to East MS Community College. But have your teammates backs. Act like you care about the fans who don't have anything positive in their community except the local football team. Be a team player.
When you put a lot of stress onto being flashy, this is what happens to your team. You may win on talent alone, but the seasons are fricking miserable. It's all about egos, entitlement, and selfishness for these guys.
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Post by wolverine55 on Jul 23, 2017 10:03:03 GMT -6
"Why bother with them to begin with?" I don't know if you played college football, but for every "just there to ball" guy, there is a guy who would not have gone to college otherwise and accidentally ends up learning and furthering themselves. This show focuses on the stars, but there a bunch of guys going D2 and getting an education. Hell, I got kids on my high school football team who SHOULD QUIT HIGH SCHOOL RIGHT NOW and start working on the farm, cause that's the end of the line for them anyway.....but every now and then, one of them ends up deciding to try something different......and hell, they would have never gotten the chance if we wrote them off at 15. Probably shouldn't write a kid off at 20 either. Yes, does what you're describing go on....absolutely JC uses kids, kids use JC.....NCAA uses kids, NFL uses NCAA, etc....... But you can't discount all the good that comes from chasing the league and accidentally finding a degree and your purpose. I completely agree with this. But I don't know about the trade-off because for every "just there to ball" guy there's a kid who might not be as good, but deserves to be there, that gets left out. "Zero tolerance" evens the playing field and I believe in time could dramatically clean things up. We're talking about giving chances just based on athletic ability. We're talking about entitlement. Yes I did play college football and I was "that kid". Not because I was good but because I was stupid. Getting booted out of school saved my life. Because of that experience I can't help but feel as if I am a small part of directly enabling the "system" and it bugs the crap out of me. As coaches we see it on all levels, from the ones that deserve it and don't get it and vice versa. If you have started watching season 2, #6 from Jones (DE) was our kid. He went big D1, ended up at Jones and now is at a D2. We also have a kid at UNC right now and while I love him, and he will make it, probably doesn't deserve to be there. He is a "just there to ball" guy but will never get into trouble. During his recruiting process I had a soccer player with all world grades, SAT scores, community hours, etc. She didn't care about college soccer and is in school for all the right reasons. She got put on a "wait and see" list to go to UNC and got accepted at the last minute. You know all this stuff happens but to witness it first hand hits home. Then I see these guys at Last Chance U and it's just frustrating all over again. I definitely see what you're saying, but all people have virtues that can possibly lead them to get ahead in life. For some, it's intelligence. For others, it's an ability to lead and manage people. And, yes, for others it's their athletic ability. Maybe I'm different, but if someone is there "just to ball" and never get in trouble, I guess I don't see anything wrong with that. Heck, I went to a D3 school and plenty of my teammates were there "just to ball." As long as colleges offer athletics, I don't see anything wrong with that being certain students' primary reason for attending. |
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Post by ahall005 on Jul 23, 2017 13:17:53 GMT -6
I finished the second season last night. I was on the fence about liking the Head coach until he kicked the OC out of the game during their bowl. Really they way he treated all of his coaches all year especially the DC I thought was wrong. I dont think that a coach should be cussing out kids constantly but at the same time that doesn't bother me much when every other word out of those kids mouth is the f word. where I think Stevens is a Hypocrite is when he says cowards and losers point fingers and turns around and tells the DC its your job not mine. Or when he says the kids have to keep their composure but he is out there losing his {censored} every other play.
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Post by wolverine55 on Jul 23, 2017 14:56:47 GMT -6
BTW, is that Holmes team that ran all over East Mississippi a true Wing T team? It sort of looked like it, but obviously you don't get much of a presnap look from watching the show.
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Post by CS on Jul 23, 2017 15:41:59 GMT -6
BTW, is that Holmes team that ran all over East Mississippi a true Wing T team? It sort of looked like it, but obviously you don't get much of a presnap look from watching the show. Pretty sure they are a flexbone team |
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Post by CS on Jul 23, 2017 15:46:04 GMT -6
I've just started watching the show. Here's my thoughts (As of S1 Episode 5): Buddy sounds more like an angry fan yelling at his TV than an actual coach. He's a prime example of how douchey coaches look when they constantly give results-oriented coaching ("wrap up", "catch the ball", etc) and not detail-oriented coaching that tells the players what they can improve on. Not to mention the dude is simply negative about everything and has a fragile ego and temper. He's literally a real-life Bud Kilmer. John Franklin has a terrible attitude. I would never want to recruit that kid. He's a bad kid who's stuck in his ways and feels entitled to everything. I can't stand him. And clearly, the talent doesn't exactly outweigh the character. Auburn definitely made a mistake with this kid. Ms. Wagner is a good woman with her heart in the right place. I wish she wouldn't coddle them through school as much as she does, but at least you can genuinely see she cares about these kids and not just their win/loss record. The mentality of a lot of these kids disgusts me. The fact that they don't care about the team at all. And I get that its not like these kids grew up working their arses off to get to East MS Community College. But have your teammates backs. Act like you care about the fans who don't have anything positive in their community except the local football team. Be a team player. When you put a lot of stress onto being flashy, this is what happens to your team. You may win on talent alone, but the seasons are fricking miserable. It's all about egos, entitlement, and selfishness for these guys. I agree about the attitudes being awful, but they are there for a reason and its not the team. It is the point of that entire football program. H!! The coach couldn't care less about them. He just wants a ring |
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agame
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Post by agame on Jul 23, 2017 15:48:51 GMT -6
I finished the second season last night. I was on the fence about liking the Head coach until he kicked the OC out of the game during their bowl. Really they way he treated all of his coaches all year especially the DC I thought was wrong. I dont think that a coach should be cussing out kids constantly but at the same time that doesn't bother me much when every other word out of those kids mouth is the f word. where I think Stevens is a Hypocrite is when he says cowards and losers point fingers and turns around and tells the DC its your job not mine. Or when he says the kids have to keep their composure but he is out there losing his {censored} every other play. Disgraceful how he reacted to his Oc in the bowl game.. It's no coincidence neither coordinator returns in 2017... how could you work for that guy after he does that to a coach 8 -9 years loyal to him |
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Post by peacock1915 on Jul 23, 2017 19:25:00 GMT -6
BTW, is that Holmes team that ran all over East Mississippi a true Wing T team? It sort of looked like it, but obviously you don't get much of a presnap look from watching the show. Pretty sure they are a flexbone team Yeah, Holmes is flexbone. OC was HC at Ga. Southern at one time. They have had a lot of offensive success against EMCC every year he has been there. |
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Post by fantom on Jul 23, 2017 22:13:31 GMT -6
I haven't seen the whole season. Just watched Episode 4. Thoughts:
1. I hesitate to call the HC a hypocrite, at least not any more so than I or most of us. If we were perfect we wouldn't need to be saved. That said, I'd rather work as greeter at Wal Mart than for that dick.
2. So far I like the DL coach. Some have said that in Season 1 they didn't see coaches who were interested in academics or personal discipline. That guy's done that. I think that these guys need both sides of it: Miss Brittany to be sweet and love them up and the DL coach to kick their a$$ when they deserve it.
3. To me, the kids act like college kids: They cuss, they gripe, they bust each other's balls.
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Post by coachbdud on Jul 24, 2017 0:21:50 GMT -6
watched season 1 earlier this summer
loved it. It is so bad, but yet so good. Like a car crash, you cant look away.
I am midway through season 2 will chime in more after i finish it tomorrow
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Post by vanden48 on Jul 24, 2017 6:02:03 GMT -6
I have worked for coaches that chew my butt out. I have worked for coaches that scream and yell at kids, put their hands on kids. I have worked for coaches that will do anything to win. Buddy is all of that wrapped up into one. He said he looked at himself after season one and said he needed to change. What is he going to do after season two?, stop coaching? He thinks he is gods gift to coaching. And after the last episode, you saw his true colors. Telling a coach he is sending him to the both and talking to players about a coach. I would love to put 70 on him.
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Post by option1 on Jul 24, 2017 7:05:54 GMT -6
Try not to forget that the show is edited for a purpose and with an agenda. Imagine being surrounded by people that constantly undermine you. Im not saying that happens at EMCC, but it could. It would be very easy in that environment for people to have widely contrasting philosophies on how to handle such a volatile situation.
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Post by Defcord on Jul 24, 2017 7:26:48 GMT -6
I haven't finished the Season yet but I would also like to note that Buddy Stephens yells when he whispers and that is simply annoying. Every once in a while MF someone a little more quietly.
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Post by rsmith627 on Jul 24, 2017 7:28:28 GMT -6
Try not to forget that the show is edited for a purpose and with an agenda. Imagine being surrounded by people that constantly undermine you. Im not saying that happens at EMCC, but it could. It would be very easy in that environment for people to have widely contrasting philosophies on how to handle such a volatile situation. I was thinking this as well. I'm on episode 4 and it seems like he is trying to change. I'm wondering how much chit goes on off camera before he goes off on somebody. I'll also add that he's dealing with a team of at risk kids, convicts, etc. Being a little nuts is probably required. |
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Post by blb on Jul 24, 2017 7:31:49 GMT -6
Perhaps the show's title refers more to the coaches than the kids?
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Post by dubber on Jul 24, 2017 10:00:54 GMT -6
Try not to forget that the show is edited for a purpose and with an agenda. Imagine being surrounded by people that constantly undermine you. Im not saying that happens at EMCC, but it could. It would be very easy in that environment for people to have widely contrasting philosophies on how to handle such a volatile situation. This...... This show (like all "reality" shows) has two things that make things seem worse than they actually are: 1.) Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.....you can't measure (or record) something without effecting the outcome. Cameras come out, attitudes get amplified. I know I would coach differently if a doc crew where at my practice. 2.) Power of the edit...........you got thousands of hours video, and only 10 hours to put into a season. What are you going to show? |
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Post by fantom on Jul 24, 2017 10:14:30 GMT -6
Try not to forget that the show is edited for a purpose and with an agenda. Imagine being surrounded by people that constantly undermine you. Im not saying that happens at EMCC, but it could. It would be very easy in that environment for people to have widely contrasting philosophies on how to handle such a volatile situation. This...... This show (like all "reality" shows) has two things that make things seem worse than they actually are: 1.) Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.....you can't measure (or record) something without effecting the outcome. Cameras come out, attitudes get amplified. I know I would coach differently if a doc crew where at my practice. 2.) Power of the edit...........you got thousands of hours video, and only 10 hours to put into a season. What are you going to show? A few years ago there was a chance that we could be on one of those ESPN games BUT part of the deal would have been that they film our practice. That put the kibosh on that deal in a hurry. |
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Post by dubber on Jul 24, 2017 11:07:39 GMT -6
This...... This show (like all "reality" shows) has two things that make things seem worse than they actually are: 1.) Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.....you can't measure (or record) something without effecting the outcome. Cameras come out, attitudes get amplified. I know I would coach differently if a doc crew where at my practice. 2.) Power of the edit...........you got thousands of hours video, and only 10 hours to put into a season. What are you going to show? A few years ago there was a chance that we could be on one of those ESPN games BUT part of the deal would have been that they film our practice. That put the kibosh on that deal in a hurry. I imagine this was a big game, and the distraction would have been too much? Our kids would be acting a fool...... |
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Post by coachbdud on Jul 24, 2017 11:52:17 GMT -6
Anybody else get the vibe that and Brittany is getting PLOWEDby half the team ?
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Post by fantom on Jul 24, 2017 12:07:14 GMT -6
A few years ago there was a chance that we could be on one of those ESPN games BUT part of the deal would have been that they film our practice. That put the kibosh on that deal in a hurry. I imagine this was a big game, and the distraction would have been too much? Our kids would be acting a fool...... Nothing good could come of it. |
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Post by brophy on Jul 24, 2017 13:44:13 GMT -6
football aside (because there really wasn't much football shown), what can be said that this documents the state of the majority of our high school graduates represent? I had problems distinguishing last season's players from the 2016 players featured this season. These were 19 - 21 year old men that were nothing more than mildly functional retards being controlled by emotional states of a toddler.
I know that is the world we've been living in, but every episode it was "____ player gets their feelings hurt, gets moody, pouts, needs 5-6 redirection / interventions from various people", cut to vignette that the player had a rough childhood....excuse after excuse....
Good for Stephens for making an effort to change his behavior and how he projected that 'changed' attitude for the majority of the season. Its a good lesson to learn that swearing on the field really isn't necessary.
Did that team ever wear the same uniform twice in a season?
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Post by coachbdud on Jul 24, 2017 14:16:01 GMT -6
just finished season 2.
1. I got the vibe in season 1 that Ms. Wagner was getting plowed by half the team
-Watching season 2 i get the feeling that she thought that after watching it herself on TV, and seemed to distance herself some from them this year. Maybe i am weird.
2. The whole deal with the OC in last game seems like a set up. 1 of 2 things... either total set up for fake drama for TV... or That QB coach Trickett set the whole thing up. He popped up and smiled SUPER FAST when buddy got pissed at the OC. Like way too fast for it to be a normal reaction. If it wasnt a TV set up, then my theory is Trickett had been in Buddy's ear for awhile saying OC was undermining him (hinting OC wants to take over as HC). My theory is he undermined the underminer to get to take over.
3. There is like zero coaching that actually happens in the whole series. The only thing they ever say is they need to play harder or simply "want it more"
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Post by CS on Jul 24, 2017 14:29:56 GMT -6
just finished season 2. 1. I got the vibe in season 1 that Ms. Wagner was getting plowed by half the team -Watching season 2 i get the feeling that she thought that after watching it herself on TV, and seemed to distance herself some from them this year. Maybe i am weird. 2. The whole deal with the OC in last game seems like a set up. 1 of 2 things... either total set up for fake drama for TV... or That QB coach Trickett set the whole thing up. He popped up and smiled SUPER FAST when buddy got pissed at the OC. Like way too fast for it to be a normal reaction. If it wasnt a TV set up, then my theory is Trickett had been in Buddy's ear for awhile saying OC was undermining him (hinting OC wants to take over as HC). My theory is he undermined the underminer to get to take over. 3. There is like zero coaching that actually happens in the whole series. The only thing they ever say is they need to play harder or simply "want it more" 1. I never got that vibe 2. He seemed like a dude that would do that but he left at the end of the season to coach for a slightly smaller douche in Lane Kiffen so I'm not sure what the motivation would be. I was pretty confused why he would send the OC up because he smirked at him?? We missed something there. 3. For that guy that is coaching. Last year it was blah blah blah _ you blah blah blah you guys better phuckin play better or I will find someone who will blah blah blah your a bunch of phuckin thugs etc. |
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Post by coachbdud on Jul 24, 2017 14:35:38 GMT -6
I will add the DL coach seems like a good dude and someone i would want to be around
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