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Post by temposquad on Apr 16, 2012 19:32:24 GMT -6
I have reached a point where I have to stop and evaluate what I am doing with my program. The reason for my self reflection is the newly developed trend of kids leaving my program. A few months ago I had an 8th grade QB quit to play basketball full time. His reason was that he felt he was a better basketball player. Today I had another 8th grade QB (the starter) also quit because "his heart just wasn't in to football anymore". Over the course of 3 years I have had 4 kids quit the football team to be full time basketball players.
Has anybody else experienced something similar to this at your school? Is there a reason to be concerned? What are some ideas I can try to keep kids motivated and dedicated to the program during off season (which is when all 4 kids left)? Is off season too monotonous (we lift 4 days/week and do football drills the 5th day)? Any advice, suggestions or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by holmesbend on Apr 16, 2012 19:57:56 GMT -6
I have come to the conclusion that the reason why you see kids lining up at the door to play basketball and even baseball is due to the fact that they do just that...PLAY. For example, our baseball team come April 20 will have played 20 games since March 20th. ....in basketball, everybody gets to score and shoot...in baseball, everybody gets to field balls and swing the bat.
So...to answer your question about the off season, yes, I think kids just don't want to put in the work for whatever reason...be it to play other sports (which I'm all for by the way) or the fact that the offseason is drawn out and it is....I'll admit it...come April and May...the weight room is the last place I want to be (obviously never tell the kids that) I'd much rather be golfing, fishing, turkey hunting, etc...we just lift/do speed work 3xs a week...Mondays, Tuesday's and Thursday's....we don't mess with Fridays. We get started by 3:15 at the latest and are finished by 4:30 at the latest
We lift for 6 weeks then I give the, a week off. The offseason is a grind...no question about it.
Basketball and baseball counting their summer aau, seasons and fall ball (baseball) play all of the time....alllll of the time....football as you know is much different....work year round for 10 game guaranteed. I just took over as HC at the school I've been an assistant at the past few years and I've drank the cool aid as far as playing games...so guess what I've done for next year? I've scheduled 18 total freshmen and jv games...I'm sending the sophomores we have ( MIGHT have 5 at best next year) to most of the freshmen games, too. Those young kids are going to have games on Monday, Thursday and dress for varsity games on Friday...so, they will practice on Tuesday's and wednesdays only.
Times are definitely different, and I'm not exactly a fan either...and I'm "new school" in terms of age (30), but old school in my core football beliefs....however, I/we have to adjust to the times as well.
I hope this helps? Didn't mean to ramble...
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Post by wingtol on Apr 17, 2012 6:35:13 GMT -6
Can't get em all, Jesus only got 11 of 12. You lost 3 kids over 4 year, I wouldn't panic. Your also talking about 8th graders who's to say they don't make their way back into the program at some time.
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Post by airraider on Apr 17, 2012 7:12:08 GMT -6
Im in the same boat....
I just recently lost 3 soph linemen.. 5'10 270, 6'0 240, 5'11 230... all said.. "want to take a year off, will play my senior year"
Had a couple of freshmen receivers quit...
I took over a year ago Jan.. last year I had several kids come out when the season started..
I think that was a bad move... because it showed them as a whole that they could miss the off season, spring, summer.. and still play.
That will not be the case next year... well I say that... I am at a private school... I could see some stink being raised if I tried to not let someone play for whatever reason.
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Post by cnunley on Apr 17, 2012 7:16:12 GMT -6
I think holmes hit it on the head.
Basketball and baseball play year round.
I'm the strength coach. I work with every sports team at our school, both boys and girls.
Number of basketball boys I've seen in the weight room that do not play a spring sport: 0
They just show up to "open gym" nights, ball it up, and think they are getting better.
One of the Basketball captains, is the teams Forward down in the paint, who happens to play goalie for the soccer team (if that tells you anything...no offense) was bench pressing a couple days ago working out with 65 pounds.
Most kids want the instant "reward" of playing time, scoring, and accelades. Football takes year round committment to play 10 games with possibly a small role out of 22 positions.
The basketball coach came and spoke with me last week about when Strength and conditioning was held because he wanted to give his boys information and have them start coming down to see me even though they ALL know when and where to go.
I told him they wouldnt come because they think what we do is "football lift". I told him what we do is make athletes, not specific sports players and what we do is hard, so I doubted I'd see any of his boys. He agreed.
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Post by coachcb on Apr 17, 2012 8:39:32 GMT -6
Let's not kid ourselves here. Football is hard. Training for football is hard. There are kids that don't want to put in the work and it's just a simple reality. IMO, the only sport that's harder than football is wrestling and I have never had a wrestler that didn't play football.
Think about a typical baseball season. The kids train get in some difficult practices for the first couple of months and then they play games every week, all week for the entire summer. So, they spend their summer either standing out in the middle of a field where they only move about 30% of the time (if they're seeing a good batter) or sitting on the bench in a dugout.
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Post by coachdennis on Apr 17, 2012 8:44:10 GMT -6
I always tell our kids that this game is hard. If it was easy, the ball would be round, and it would be called soccer. :-)
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Post by spreadopt on Apr 17, 2012 8:46:44 GMT -6
I agree with most of the posts on here. Kids these days are looking for instant success or gratification in just about every endeavor in life. It is becoming more and more difficult to get kids to stay the course and continue working hard. Football as we all know is an intensely difficult sport not only to prepare for, but to play. Who wants to lift all off season, condition in the summer, go through 2-a-days or camp, and then normal practices with the chance that they may not see the field at all...
Why wouldn't you want to sit in front of a video game screen in the air conditioning all summer?
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Post by coachwilliams2 on Apr 17, 2012 8:58:00 GMT -6
It is a sign of the times.
THEY WANT TO BE GOOD NOW. THEY WANT TO PLAY NOW.
They do NOT want to work all off-season, January to August, just to MAYBE be one of 22 players.
Football is really hard. It used to mirror our society. It used to be part of the culture. Hard-nosed, blue collar kids who come to work everyday (sound familiar? The greatest generation?). It used to be about getting bigger and stronger but now they see more "athletes" succeeding in football. We all know speed kills, but the kids do not see that most of those guys who can fly are genetically gifted. I don't know about you all but we don't coach many of those kids.
Doing the things needed to be good at football are very difficult and demanding unless you are one of the genetically gifted. That is why you see this trend.
Luckily where I coach, we still have some blue-collar kids who like to show up and work...now if we could just find some fast-twitch muscle fibers...
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Post by olcoach53 on Apr 17, 2012 8:58:06 GMT -6
Football weightlifting is actually weightlifting. I saw our basketball team "lift" last night in the weight room. It involved poor dumbbell curls and some pullups, pretty pathetic. It's a shame too because we have some kids on our barely win 10 games basketball team who could seriously help our been to the playoffs 4 years in a row football team.
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Post by coachcb on Apr 17, 2012 9:09:35 GMT -6
Football weightlifting is actually weightlifting. I saw our basketball team "lift" last night in the weight room. It involved poor dumbbell curls and some pullups, pretty pathetic. It's a shame too because we have some kids on our barely win 10 games basketball team who could seriously help our been to the playoffs 4 years in a row football team. Lol.... I coached at a school that actually let a private Nordic and downhill skiing team train in the weight room. The coaches always had their noses in the air because they were preparing "future Olympians". One of them was an Olympic alternate to an alternate's cousin or some crap back in the 70s. Those kids came in three times a week and the workout was a circuit of curls, overhead extensions, leg extensions, leg curls, and bench press. Oh yeah, and ALOT of crunches. |
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Post by 1coachhansen on Apr 17, 2012 9:17:21 GMT -6
It sounds like a case of "specialization". Kids think they are going to play a certain sport in college and then dream about playing in the pros. They don't realized that the sports compliment each other. Specialization has a much higher burn out rate than when we were kids and played everything. I hated running the 4x800 and 800 in high school, but I knew it would make me a better athlete for football, physically, but especially MENTALLY.
I also think alot of times coaches of different sports in the same school ARE NOT working together. They are trying to sway their kids to their sport over all the others. That is a hugh mistake in my opinion. Also, the 5 day a week routine does seem like alot in the off-season. I used to use a 4 day a week lifting/plyometric routine when I first started coaching... My attendance expectation was 80% for the entire group... i had problems getting to 70% attendance. Since i switched it to 3 days a week and use a Mon. Tues. Thurs. schedule my percentage is over 90% at 2 different schools. I now have a 90% attendance goal for the group and routinely reach it. My schedule, while possibly seeming odd, gives the kids Friday, Saturday, Sunday off to "be a kid". Then they come back on Monday re-charged and ready to go. It is only one more day off and one less day of lifting, but that is alot to a kid and their mentality. I also don't do football drills in off-season conditioning.. i save that for football camps and 2 a days. I want an encourage my football players to play other sports and the coaches at my school work together to "double and triple team" these kids into playing other sports and staying active, instead of going home and watching TV and eating Doritios in the offseason, or even worse going out and drinking. Just my thoughts.. If you've only lost 4 kids in the past 3 seasons, that's not too bad... probably weren't going to win with that type of a quitter kid when the rubber meets the road anyhow. Hang in there.
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Post by coachcb on Apr 17, 2012 11:12:26 GMT -6
It's funny how kids want to "specialize" in the easier sports..
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Post by mrjvi on Apr 17, 2012 11:19:29 GMT -6
I honestly want to know how hard it really is to play baseball other than the obvious hand eye coordination. I have 2 players that are "too injured" to lift properly at our morning workouts but have their names in the paper all the time for baseball stats, batting, pitching. AMAZING!!!!! In this case they are great kids but  ?? |
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Post by mitch on Apr 17, 2012 11:21:22 GMT -6
It's funny how kids want to "specialize" in the easier sports.. Kinda like kids never having a injury that keeps them off the bench press. It's always the squat they can't do. |
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Post by fantom on Apr 17, 2012 12:58:07 GMT -6
Is it that hard or do we make it that hard? Hitting a baseball is more fun than lifting weights at 6 A.M.? No kidding?
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Post by temposquad on Apr 17, 2012 19:15:30 GMT -6
There are some great posts here and I feel better in knowing that I am not alone in this battle. I agree with the move to specialization of sports. Kids are doing this now for whatever the reason however it seems to me that we are always the sports that falls on the sharp end of that stick.
So here is my next question.... What can we do to combat this? How do we keep these kids engaged during the rigors of off season? Looking for some brainstorming here do there are no dumb ideas..... What about doing some after school pass skel 3 on 3 or 5 on 5 tournaments and invite Jr high kids to compete against high school kids..... Or dividing kids up and assigning coaches to a group of players they have to develop a bond with....... Thoughts?? Suggestions??
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Post by temposquad on Apr 17, 2012 19:22:07 GMT -6
Also forgot to mention, our basketball coaches do not lift the kids as many of you have discussed nor do they encourage multi sport athletes. We always have pushed kids into the gym but I'm getting ready to stop that ship since the favor is not being reciprocated.
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Post by jpdaley25 on Apr 18, 2012 5:23:37 GMT -6
I wouldn't push 8th graders the same way I push juniors and seniors....I think they should have a different measuring stick...JMO.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 18, 2012 6:52:12 GMT -6
Im in the same boat.... I just recently lost 3 soph linemen.. 5'10 270, 6'0 240, 5'11 230... all said.. "want to take a year off, will play my senior year" I have always thought that this comment meant those kids don't GET IT with regards to competition. They are worried about being the "best" M-TH and not on Friday. I don't have much of a solution for you, other than to constantly harp on self improvement, and on the OTHER guys they will have to play on Friday Nights. |
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Post by gapshoot76 on Apr 18, 2012 10:11:27 GMT -6
I coach in a basketball town through and through. We have had some pretty good athletes go through here! The head coach swears he doesn't sway kids to not play football in the fall but I don't buy it.
Funny thing is we had 2 of the better basketball players come to football camp last summer. You know, the ones who would walk the halls and tell everyone how good they would be compared to everyone else on the team!
Had one show up for 2 days of camp and never come back, it was just too hard for him. The other one at least stuck it out for the first camp, but all the sudden after that I never saw him again until school started. Never gave me a real reason but I'm pretty sure it was similar to the first ones reason!
Also, I don't know how your "open gym's" are for your basketball players at your school, but ours go a little something like this. 6-10 HS kids show up, along with 6 or 7 teachers/townies all of which are mostly 40 plus years old. Pretty much it turns into "mature" men vs. high school kids. How the h*ll are they getting any better playing old men! Can you imagine us expecting our kids to get better at football playing 7 on 7 vs. 40+ teams... come on now! If I was 16 again I'd love to play old men every day for "open practice", it would make me feel better about myself too!
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Post by cnunley on Apr 18, 2012 11:05:53 GMT -6
Also, I don't know how your "open gym's" are for your basketball players at your school, but ours go a little something like this. 6-10 HS kids show up, along with 6 or 7 teachers/townies all of which are mostly 40 plus years old. Pretty much it turns into "mature" men vs. high school kids. How the h*ll are they getting any better playing old men! Can you imagine us expecting our kids to get better at football playing 7 on 7 vs. 40+ teams... come on now! If I was 16 again I'd love to play old men every day for "open practice", it would make me feel better about myself too! That's how it is here for most of the open gyms. Rules have changed state wide to allow actual practice, but they still use some of the 'play old community guys' also. |
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Post by coachdennis on Apr 18, 2012 11:27:38 GMT -6
I'm not sure there is anything terribly new in this. Maybe we are seeing a bit more of it, but I have been at this for a long time as both a coach, and way back when dinosaurs roamed the earth as a player. We always had kids who ultimately pulled the chute on you. The funny part is that those are the guys who regret it when they get older. They look back on the often brief time they spent playing and inevitably say, "Man, I should have kept playing."
I actually had a young man come to me, years later, and say, "Coach, how come you let me quit?" I had done nothing of the kind of course - like the rest of us, I had done everything I could do to convince him to stay. He was half joking, but clearly he wished that someone had saved him from the stupid decision he made at that time.
The one thing I have gotten better at as I get older is not worrying about the kids who aren't there. I used to fuss and obsess like crazy over this kid or that kid who had quit, didn't come out, etc. All it did was make me miserable. Now I just focus on the kids who are there, and the ones who miss the bus don't occupy any mind space. File this one under the "wisdom to know the difference" part of the Serenity Prayer.
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Post by ajreaper on Apr 18, 2012 11:45:14 GMT -6
Look at many/most basketball off season programs- its called "open gym". Arrive when you like, do what you like then leave when you like. No expectations or demands other then show up for the most part. Structure, expectations, and most importantly hard work seperate those who don't really want to be there.
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Post by olcoach53 on Apr 18, 2012 11:59:29 GMT -6
Our "open gyms" are run by coaches and are essentially practices.
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Post by superpower on Apr 18, 2012 19:12:44 GMT -6
The one thing I have gotten better at as I get older is not worrying about the kids who aren't there. I used to fuss and obsess like crazy over this kid or that kid who had quit, didn't come out, etc. All it did was make me miserable. Now I just focus on the kids who are there, and the ones who miss the bus don't occupy any mind space. File this one under the "wisdom to know the difference" part of the Serenity Prayer. WORD! |
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Post by mrucoach on Apr 18, 2012 20:16:34 GMT -6
Kids quit in all sports at every level and have for many years.
My take is this: if I've got to try to convince you not to quit our football team I probably didn't want you anyway.
A few years ago a freshmen lineman, good looking athlete, came up to me with his mother before a 2-a-day practice, he's crying and mom's telling him to "tell coach you want to quit". He blubbers it out like I'm going to get mad as we were very short of players and were trying to reshape our program. I just told him that football is hard and if you don't want to do it nothing I'm going to tell you will make you stay.
When I was in high school many, many years ago a grizzled old coach said "ya gotta wanna"....I believe that's still true today.
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Post by olcoach53 on Apr 19, 2012 8:18:31 GMT -6
That is a good point mrucoach. Some kids are who quit really do not want to quit. We have a student who will be a senior next season who is unfortunately quitting football. Would he have ever been a starter? Probably not but he was a great kid and a good scout team player. He is being forced to quit because he is also a wrestler and a 4.0 student heading to college and eventually medical school(his plan anyways) so his mother said football or wrestling, wrestling is his better sport so I cant be too mad at him.
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Post by silkyice on Apr 25, 2012 8:30:44 GMT -6
Also, I don't know how your "open gym's" are for your basketball players at your school, but ours go a little something like this. 6-10 HS kids show up, along with 6 or 7 teachers/townies all of which are mostly 40 plus years old. Pretty much it turns into "mature" men vs. high school kids. How the h*ll are they getting any better playing old men! Can you imagine us expecting our kids to get better at football playing 7 on 7 vs. 40+ teams... come on now! If I was 16 again I'd love to play old men every day for "open practice", it would make me feel better about myself too! Going to be a jerk, sorry. But that tells me exactly what kind of athletic program you probably have. Notice I said probably, not definitely becasue I don't know. Every school I have been has the same kind of open gyms. Except we beat the HECK out of the kids. They can't beat us. I currently coach at a school with 15 basketball state championships! 15! We will be the favorites next year for sure. The kids can't even stay on the court with us 30-40 year olds. I can beat the best kid on the team one on one who has a chance to be a Div 1 basketball player. He is dang good. I didn't even play high school bball. I'm not that good, but I will be danged if I am going to let a kid beat me. I don't cheat or play cheap either. I just play hard and have a will to win. I said it was that way at every school I have coached. That is not exactly true. I coached at a crappy school one time. And our open gyms were like you described, but I changed that and the old dudes starting winning. But I had to leave due to the overall climate of losing at the school. While how open gyms are conducted should have no bearing on your athletic program really, I think I can tell a lot by just playing in a few. I have no idea what that has to do with this thread and I know I rambled, it just struck me wrong. |
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Post by jrk5150 on Apr 25, 2012 8:56:12 GMT -6
Kinda off topic, but yeah, I couldn't let that one sit there either.
HS age kids can absolutely get better playing against grown men. There's a lot to be learned playing against the wisdom and physicality of a fully developed adult. I got a lot better when I was in HS when I played against adults than I did playing against kids my own age.
That said - I wish to no end that weight-lifting was something I was forced to do in HS. I dabbled, but it really wasn't something that was ever emphasized. It would have made a dramatic difference in my game.
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