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Post by fantom on Mar 24, 2020 14:37:22 GMT -6
And that's why it's important to treat those lower levels as "developmental". Not necessarily a socialist regime where every JV kid plays equally but get them in the game if they're working hard at practice. Our JV program only won one game this season but those kids had far more enthusiasm than many of our varsity starters; they knew that they'd see the field if the busted hump in practice. A few eventually became varsity starters for us because of it. It would've been great if we could have had a few more starting for us but numbers were low and we weren't going to throw a 5'5'', 120lb freshman out there...
We try to play a full slate of JV games, even if its only with 14-15 kids. We are a small school with 35 on the roster. Freshmen need to play. I would have hated football if i was only gonna a blocking dummy for a whole year. I tell my staff all the time...That 5'4 260 pudgy 13 year old may be a man by the time he's 17. Cant afford to run them off or not keep them in the program. Every time you run off a kid you may also be running off his (Maybe more talented) brothers, cousins, and friends. |
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Post by jcp3 on Mar 24, 2020 18:11:54 GMT -6
Reading these posts feels like you guys are in our office. We seldom get basketball kids anymore because the coach that was hired doesn't allow his kids to lift, and tells his players they have to play all year long. Those that play football (we had 2 this season) are constantly told they are in jeopardy of losing their jobs.
The other sport is lacrosse. Virtually every kid plays travel lacrosse from 1st grade on up, and of those players 8/10 of them - no exaggeration - tell us that lax is their "scholarship sport".
Athletes from both programs complain during football about practices, hitting, individuals, being held accountable and discipline. Both groups of players, when asked, will tell us that their practices (and both programs are very successful at our school) are "fun" - they last about an hour, there's seldom any stretch work, no individuals and they just "play".
In our experience, this leads to the first 3 weeks of football practice, each season, being spent on just re-enforcing cultural standards while trying to install our systems. We have a good staff, but its getting harder to find those kids who enjoy the grind. It's just easier in today's instant gratification generation to "have fun", and not work so hard.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 24, 2020 18:17:17 GMT -6
Reading these posts feels like you guys are in our office. We seldom get basketball kids anymore because the coach that was hired doesn't allow his kids to lift, and tells his players they have to play all year long. Those that play football (we had 2 this season) are constantly told they are in jeopardy of losing their jobs. The other sport is lacrosse. Virtually every kid plays travel lacrosse from 1st grade on up, and of those players 8/10 of them - no exaggeration - tell us that lax is their "scholarship sport". Athletes from both programs complain during football about practices, hitting, individuals, being held accountable and discipline. Both groups of players, when asked, will tell us that their practices (and both programs are very successful at our school) are "fun" - they last about an hour, there's seldom any stretch work, no individuals and they just "play". In our experience, this leads to the first 3 weeks of football practice, each season, being spent on just re-enforcing cultural standards while trying to install our systems. We have a good staff, but its getting harder to find those kids who enjoy the grind. It's just easier in today's instant gratification generation to "have fun", and not work so hard. Maybe the kids, and those other programs aren't the ones that are wrong? |
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Post by 54695469 on Mar 24, 2020 18:54:17 GMT -6
Reading these posts feels like you guys are in our office. We seldom get basketball kids anymore because the coach that was hired doesn't allow his kids to lift, and tells his players they have to play all year long. Those that play football (we had 2 this season) are constantly told they are in jeopardy of losing their jobs. The other sport is lacrosse. Virtually every kid plays travel lacrosse from 1st grade on up, and of those players 8/10 of them - no exaggeration - tell us that lax is their "scholarship sport". Athletes from both programs complain during football about practices, hitting, individuals, being held accountable and discipline. Both groups of players, when asked, will tell us that their practices (and both programs are very successful at our school) are "fun" - they last about an hour, there's seldom any stretch work, no individuals and they just "play". In our experience, this leads to the first 3 weeks of football practice, each season, being spent on just re-enforcing cultural standards while trying to install our systems. We have a good staff, but its getting harder to find those kids who enjoy the grind. It's just easier in today's instant gratification generation to "have fun", and not work so hard. Stop referring to "it" as "the grind" and maybe more kids will enjoy it. |
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Post by 54695469 on Mar 24, 2020 18:54:38 GMT -6
Reading these posts feels like you guys are in our office. We seldom get basketball kids anymore because the coach that was hired doesn't allow his kids to lift, and tells his players they have to play all year long. Those that play football (we had 2 this season) are constantly told they are in jeopardy of losing their jobs. The other sport is lacrosse. Virtually every kid plays travel lacrosse from 1st grade on up, and of those players 8/10 of them - no exaggeration - tell us that lax is their "scholarship sport". Athletes from both programs complain during football about practices, hitting, individuals, being held accountable and discipline. Both groups of players, when asked, will tell us that their practices (and both programs are very successful at our school) are "fun" - they last about an hour, there's seldom any stretch work, no individuals and they just "play". In our experience, this leads to the first 3 weeks of football practice, each season, being spent on just re-enforcing cultural standards while trying to install our systems. We have a good staff, but its getting harder to find those kids who enjoy the grind. It's just easier in today's instant gratification generation to "have fun", and not work so hard. Stop referring to "it" as "the grind" and maybe more kids will enjoy it...and y'all talk about "cultural standards?" Oh, brother. |
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Post by carookie on Mar 24, 2020 20:45:59 GMT -6
FWIW, I feel as if I get an equal number of kids who drop other sports and only want to play football because- 'we actually teach them how to play' and 'we make them work and do stuff'; as we do those who drop football because its too difficult or not just mess around hour.
That being written, we aren't angry, rip into kids for fun, bark out random rules types. We also have very organized indi times that are consistent throuhgout the year and focus on developing ubiquitous techniques and an understanding of how and when to use them. Players over plays.
I think there are a lot of kids who like that, and want to be coached up and improve. I'd hate to lose them
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 20:57:13 GMT -6
FWIW, I feel as if I get an equal number of kids who drop other sports and only want to play football because- 'we actually teach them how to play' and 'we make them work and do stuff'; as we do those who drop football because its too difficult or not just mess around hour. That being written, we aren't angry, rip into kids for fun, bark out random rules types. We also have very organized indi times that are consistent throuhgout the year and focus on developing ubiquitous techniques and an understanding of how and when to use them. Players over plays. I think there are a lot of kids who like that, and want to be coached up and improve. I'd hate to lose them the thing that gets lost is kids are there to learn to play the sport. Coaches put other crap into, as though said sport isn’t enough for the kids. |
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Post by coachsticks on Mar 25, 2020 7:40:31 GMT -6
It has been mentioned previously...but look at what kids have to go through to play 10 games. 1. Weights/Conditioning 2. Spring Practice 3. Summer weights/Conditioning 4. Summer 7v7 5. Summer Padded Camps (in GA) 6. Preseason Practice...Scrimmage 7. 10 games Been out of it for two years. Miss being around the kids. Miss the competitiveness of a Friday night. Don’t miss this. |
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Post by coachcb on Mar 25, 2020 8:37:17 GMT -6
It has been mentioned previously...but look at what kids have to go through to play 10 games. 1. Weights/Conditioning 2. Spring Practice 3. Summer weights/Conditioning 4. Summer 7v7 5. Summer Padded Camps (in GA) 6. Preseason Practice...Scrimmage 7. 10 games
Many football coaches (myself included) have hammered other sports' coaches over "specialization" but we've basically been demanding it for a long time without truly recognizing it. And the above post shows displays it. We might push kids to participate in other sports but that's tough when we're also asking all of the above from the kids. I cut my teeth coaching under a "minimalist" HC who was quite successful; several state titles and perennial contender. His off-season schedule:
1. Winter and Spring weight training: there were multiple weight training periods offered and he opened up the weight room in the morning and after school. 2. No spring ball. We don't have organized spring practice in this state but everyone gets together a few morning a week with the kids in March, April and May. This coach didn't do that and was still successful. 3. Summer weight training. He opened up the weight room from 6am-10am and 4pm-8pm, five days per week. The kids lifted two days and did SAQ work twice per week.
4. Three days of padded practice before attending a team camp.
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Post by Down 'n Out on Mar 25, 2020 8:51:58 GMT -6
It has been mentioned previously...but look at what kids have to go through to play 10 games. 1. Weights/Conditioning 2. Spring Practice 3. Summer weights/Conditioning 4. Summer 7v7 5. Summer Padded Camps (in GA) 6. Preseason Practice...Scrimmage 7. 10 games Been out of it for two years. Miss being around the kids. Miss the competitiveness of a Friday night. Don’t miss this. With the spread of COVID-19 none of this is happening in a lot of states, I wonder how this Fall will go for those teams(fingers crossed this doesn't drag into Football season). Maybe we will realize that all of this isn't necessary to be good at football.
In my opinion weightlifting certainly is, conditioning in the summer certainly is, 7on7(debatable), padded camps nope, preseason and scrimmages yes.
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Post by vanden48 on Mar 26, 2020 19:57:22 GMT -6
I feel that in high school you can avoid burn out if you encourage kids to play 2 to 3 sports, and have an athletic department wide weight training program. If all sports train weight train in season, a weight training culture will begin in the school. Don't make 7v7 mandatory, allow the players to sign up for it. Encourage and organize players who are not in winter or spring sports to become those teams biggest fan club. Basketball and Baseball will make cuts, so there will be players that will be in the weight room from those sports that don't make it. Don't treat weight training as "Football Weight Training". And you need other sports coaches to buy into in-season lifting.
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Post by carookie on Mar 26, 2020 20:07:09 GMT -6
Reading these posts feels like you guys are in our office. We seldom get basketball kids anymore because the coach that was hired doesn't allow his kids to lift, and tells his players they have to play all year long. Those that play football (we had 2 this season) are constantly told they are in jeopardy of losing their jobs.The other sport is lacrosse. Virtually every kid plays travel lacrosse from 1st grade on up, and of those players 8/10 of them - no exaggeration - tell us that lax is their "scholarship sport". Athletes from both programs complain during football about practices, hitting, individuals, being held accountable and discipline. Both groups of players, when asked, will tell us that their practices (and both programs are very successful at our school) are "fun" - they last about an hour, there's seldom any stretch work, no individuals and they just "play". In our experience, this leads to the first 3 weeks of football practice, each season, being spent on just re-enforcing cultural standards while trying to install our systems. We have a good staff, but its getting harder to find those kids who enjoy the grind. It's just easier in today's instant gratification generation to "have fun", and not work so hard. Thats on your AD and administration. Every good football program I have been a part of encourages kids to play other sports and do other stuff. This needs to be handled by the higher ups |
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Post by fantom on Mar 26, 2020 20:29:06 GMT -6
Too many of us, damn near all us, coaches have gotten too wrapped up in this year-round stuff. I don't just mean football coaches. Basketball AAU and open gym, baseball travel and fall ball, track, wrestling, they all do it. Has any of it really made us better?
I'm retired so it doesn't really matter to me but the last few years were a lot tougher than the first few.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2020 21:06:12 GMT -6
I feel that in high school you can avoid burn out if you encourage kids to play 2 to 3 sports, and have an athletic department wide weight training program. If all sports train weight train in season, a weight training culture will begin in the school. Don't make 7v7 mandatory, allow the players to sign up for it. Encourage and organize players who are not in winter or spring sports to become those teams biggest fan club. Basketball and Baseball will make cuts, so there will be players that will be in the weight room from those sports that don't make it. Don't treat weight training as "Football Weight Training". And you need other sports coaches to buy into in-season lifting. Where baseball and basketball have it right, is those coaches will keep the kids who they want to coach. I went to coaches meeting at HC’s house and all everybody did was rip basketball and baseball and complain about the kids they hated to coach. To me, it makes much more sense to get rid of the problems, deal with low numbers and coach, as opposed to what we do now which is baby sit. The burn out comes from doing all the things nobody really wants to do. 7v7 isn’t a problem until I add that jack a- -, this jerk, that mal-content, this whiner. And None of them can play or they are completely doing their own thing. That will burn you out. We go to hawg camps. This kid runs off in the middle of the night, that kid rolls his eyes when its his turn to get reps. Like seriously, why continue doing that? So we can scrimmage? No offense to anybody, but F-OFF! |
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 26, 2020 21:06:42 GMT -6
Too many of us, damn near all us, coaches have gotten too wrapped up in this year-round stuff. I don't just mean football coaches. Basketball AAU and open gym, baseball travel and fall ball, track, wrestling, they all do it. Has any of it really made us better? I'm retired so it doesn't really matter to me but the last few years were a lot tougher than the first few. I went to 3-4 of the local HS' games last fall. I never coached there and I can stand off to the side without being recognized. They play in the conference I was last a HC in. The level and quality of play were pathetic IMO. I felt that way as I was coming to the end too. People spend SOOOO much time doing outside stuff- lifting, character stuff, social media stuff, public service, etc- their actual on field product is worse than it was 10 years ago. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2020 21:11:11 GMT -6
Too many of us, damn near all us, coaches have gotten too wrapped up in this year-round stuff. I don't just mean football coaches. Basketball AAU and open gym, baseball travel and fall ball, track, wrestling, they all do it. Has any of it really made us better? I'm retired so it doesn't really matter to me but the last few years were a lot tougher than the first few. I went to 3-4 of the local HS' games last fall. I never coached there and I can stand off to the side without being recognized. They play in the conference I was last a HC in. The level and quality of play were pathetic IMO. I felt that way as I was coming to the end too. People spend SOOOO much time doing outside stuff- lifting, character stuff, social media stuff, public service, etc- their actual on field product is worse than it was 10 years ago. I could not have said it better myself! AWESOME. How about that, JUST COACH! What a concept. |
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 26, 2020 21:52:11 GMT -6
I went to 3-4 of the local HS' games last fall. I never coached there and I can stand off to the side without being recognized. They play in the conference I was last a HC in. The level and quality of play were pathetic IMO. I felt that way as I was coming to the end too. People spend SOOOO much time doing outside stuff- lifting, character stuff, social media stuff, public service, etc- their actual on field product is worse than it was 10 years ago. I could not have said it better myself! AWESOME. How about that, JUST COACH! What a concept. I will also clarify what I mean by quality of play being pathetic. Fundamentals are terrible. Tackling, blocking and the little things are REAL bad. It's like watching JFL. Everything is predicated on hitting homeruns. Hit a deep ball, break one tackle, etc. Idk that I've seen a 10+ play drive in 5 years. Either because of the reasons I listed, or because the defense is that bad. There's a reason scores are 70-50 now and it's not because quality of play are better. |
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Post by mrjvi on Mar 27, 2020 6:33:40 GMT -6
Only real issue I've had is that other coaches see weight training as football out of season. Until an AD makes everyone do it, things won't change. With the schools in NY shut down right now nobody can lift with their kids and they can't go to gyms to lift either. BUT everyone is in the same boat so apples to apples.
If all teams had to lift, I believe more kids would play multiple sports because they couldn't "avoid" the lift requiring ones. For me, if the kids are strong enough to not get hurt as much and maybe gain some speed from it, the rest is on me and my staff to coach them.
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Post by blb on Mar 27, 2020 9:32:33 GMT -6
I will also clarify what I mean by quality of play being pathetic. Fundamentals are terrible. Tackling, blocking and the little things are REAL bad. It's like watching JFL. Everything is predicated on hitting homeruns. Hit a deep ball, break one tackle, etc. Idk that I've seen a 10+ play drive in 5 years. Either because of the reasons I listed, or because the defense is that bad. There's a reason scores are 70-50 now and it's not because quality of play are better.
Kids want games to be like Madden and parents want them to be like Saturdays and Sundays.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 27, 2020 10:29:45 GMT -6
I will also clarify what I mean by quality of play being pathetic. Fundamentals are terrible. Tackling, blocking and the little things are REAL bad. It's like watching JFL. Everything is predicated on hitting homeruns. Hit a deep ball, break one tackle, etc. Idk that I've seen a 10+ play drive in 5 years. Either because of the reasons I listed, or because the defense is that bad. There's a reason scores are 70-50 now and it's not because quality of play are better.
The kids want games to be like Madden and the parents want them to be like Saturdays and Sundays.
It's become more and more interesting to be a DC over the last three years. Kids complain that defense "is boring" because there's so much emphasis on fundamentals every day: alignment, assignment, shedding, tackling, coverage (rinse, repeat). Some gripe because they think we should be installing a new blitz every week when we struggle to run those few we do have installed.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 27, 2020 10:30:00 GMT -6
Only real issue I've had is that other coaches see weight training as football out of season. Until an AD makes everyone do it, things won't change. With the schools in NY shut down right now nobody can lift with their kids and they can't go to gyms to lift either. BUT everyone is in the same boat so apples to apples. If all teams had to lift, I believe more kids would play multiple sports because they couldn't "avoid" the lift requiring ones. For me, if the kids are strong enough to not get hurt as much and maybe gain some speed from it, the rest is on me and my staff to coach them. Or maybe they wouldn't play any sports. |
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Post by s73 on Mar 27, 2020 10:52:53 GMT -6
I've said this before and I'll say it again, I think we have done much of this to ourselves.
When I was in HS we had summer lifting and nothing more. I remember we couldn't WAIT for the season to start! Everyone was so jacked for that 1st day. And that was during the time of 2 a days.
Now that we have summer practice in our state and you have to do it to keep up, the 1st day just feels like an extension of what you're already doing and the enthusiasm seems to have waned quite a bit.
I always try to give us about 2 - 2.5 weeks off before the season starts to come in "fresh" but still, these kids have been seeing us all summer and it is not the same.
I would welcome a scaling back of things. Maybe contact allowed 5 days in June and 5 days in July w/ summer lifting as you please.
I think more kids may come back to the sport. But now that the genie is out of the bottle.....
On another note, it will be interesting to see how all of the Corona stuff plays out and if summer practice will be canceled or greatly diminished.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 11:57:21 GMT -6
I think it would be easier and more enjoyable if the time together, in and out of season was short and sweet. In all seriousness, why do we we need have 2.5 hrs practices? How about 90 minutes. Keep the meeting times to under an hr, weights and meetings combined. Keep the speeches to 30 seconds. The kids do not care nearly as much as the coaches on this board. And coaches do not have time and energy to be doing some of things they take the charge of doing. When I see coaches who think they need to play father figure, pastor, moral leader, its no wonder coaches and players just plain wear out.
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Post by 54695469 on Mar 27, 2020 13:38:49 GMT -6
I think it would be easier and more enjoyable if the ti okme together, in and out of season was short and sweet. In all seriousness, why do we we need have 2.5 hrs practices? How about 90 minutes. Keep the meeting times to under an hr, weights and meetings combined. Keep the speeches to 30 seconds. The kids do not care nearly as much as the coaches on this board. And coaches do not have time and energy to be doing some of things they take the charge of doing. When I see coaches who think they need to play father figure, pastor, moral leader, its no wonder coaches and players just plain wear out. Yessir. Way to much of this last thing! I've seen coaches that take time out of off-season to do the "tire-changing" sessions, how to tie a tie, etc... Really neat stuff, but good grief...just coach! I guess it all goes back to building the "culture" and grinding! |
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 27, 2020 13:55:30 GMT -6
I think it would be easier and more enjoyable if the ti okme together, in and out of season was short and sweet. In all seriousness, why do we we need have 2.5 hrs practices? How about 90 minutes. Keep the meeting times to under an hr, weights and meetings combined. Keep the speeches to 30 seconds. The kids do not care nearly as much as the coaches on this board. And coaches do not have time and energy to be doing some of things they take the charge of doing. When I see coaches who think they need to play father figure, pastor, moral leader, its no wonder coaches and players just plain wear out. Yessir. Way to much of this last thing! I've seen coaches that take time out of off-season to do the "tire-changing" sessions, how to tie a tie, etc... Really neat stuff, but good grief...just coach! I guess it all goes back to building the "culture" and grinding! I think a portion of it- and this goes for all of education- is people trying to justify their jobs on social media. |
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Post by 54695469 on Mar 27, 2020 15:11:47 GMT -6
Totally agree.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 28, 2020 9:48:15 GMT -6
I went to 3-4 of the local HS' games last fall. I never coached there and I can stand off to the side without being recognized. They play in the conference I was last a HC in. The level and quality of play were pathetic IMO. I felt that way as I was coming to the end too. People spend SOOOO much time doing outside stuff- lifting, character stuff, social media stuff, public service, etc- their actual on field product is worse than it was 10 years ago. I could not have said it better myself! AWESOME. How about that, JUST COACH! What a concept. Perhaps you could find yourself a nice semi-pro team to coach? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 12:04:03 GMT -6
I could not have said it better myself! AWESOME. How about that, JUST COACH! What a concept. Perhaps you could find yourself a nice semi-pro team to coach? i can manipualte, play with, influence young people, i have little use for grown up who are more or less wasting their time. I can justify the kids. |
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Post by 54695469 on Mar 28, 2020 18:01:07 GMT -6
Re: Just Coach!
Is it not true that if one were to simply be an effective coach and just do what a good coach does (and ask that that includes) while coaching football, one would accomplish all that the "culture warrior" heroes do...and with far less BS?
Tell me where this thinking is wrong?
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 28, 2020 19:01:46 GMT -6
Re: Just Coach! Is it not true that if one were to simply be an effective coach and just do what a good coach does (and ask that that includes) while coaching football, one would accomplish all that the "culture warrior" heroes do...and with far less BS? Tell me where this thinking is wrong? Aren't you then, by your own logic and definitions saying that good coaches are concerned about creating that culture that you spend most of your time here complaining about? |
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