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Post by Coach Huey on Jul 27, 2007 8:23:52 GMT -6
first why assume that we cant defend bunch? If we practice our reactions to bunch and mesh/rub every day we dont necessarily need to do anything different. The kids are taught to decide if and when they need to banjo a receiver for example. Why assume that just because the offense schemes to beat man with its bunch rub package that it will indeed beat the man defense? again ... this is a "what if" scenario ... what are the kids looking for to help them determine "banjo" this or not? who makes that decision? when is it made? i'm wanting to talk football
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 27, 2007 8:24:26 GMT -6
Steve, I love ya man but you hijacked my thread....LOL. funny, I cant even remember how all this got started, sure is fun though. I think it had something do with meantioning man and spread in the same post.
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Post by airraider on Jul 27, 2007 8:24:28 GMT -6
first why assume that we cant defend bunch? If we practice our reactions to bunch and mesh/rub every day we dont necessarily need to do anything different. The kids are taught to decide if and when they need to banjo a receiver for example. Why assume that just because the offense schemes to beat man with its bunch rub package that it will indeed beat the man defense? Maybe it wont, but that is what it is designed to do. But how are you going to press the off men? If your guys is more physical than my guy.. and can get his hands on him NOW and rough him up and make him work to get away.. then yea you can do some things.. BUT.. WE do not just sit back and allow you to rough us up all night.. we have different adjustments to press and will allow our selves some clean releases.. you think just because you rep it everyday that you can be ready for it?? How about this.. who do you YOU have on your team who will run a route as good as even my 5th best receiver to duplicate it in practice? Sure your guys look like studs in practice jamming another corner back.. but what about when they go up against my guys who are taught how to beat the press?? Steve, bottom line.. if you and I play.. and you insist on going man all night.. (high school we play at night) I will score as much as I want.. 3:15 to 2:26 in this video.. Great team.. went 8-2 regular season.. ran a split 6 or something.. played man every down.. we passed for 362 yards on them..
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Post by airraider on Jul 27, 2007 8:27:52 GMT -6
quit talking in circles and defend your stance.. what do you do when the team does this or does that.. look back at my last post on page 4 and tell me what you would do
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Post by airraider on Jul 27, 2007 8:29:25 GMT -6
Ill do that airraider, nothing I post here carries any weight or validity because a) I have coached frosh and middle school ball all of my life b) I have coached below the AAAA level c) I have coached in Pa but not in the mighty WPIAL d) I dont coach in Texas e) I dont run a "tv offense" or believe I should be running "tampa 2" with frosh and high schoolers who cant remember what to do from down to down on each call. look folks, when you get frustrated by my hard headedness "live and die with man, long live the double wing" you can just bring up the level or location of my coaching experience and totally negate anything factual that I might provide to support my philosophies. Look no further than Madden 2007 and youll find that I dont have a clue because youll not find the double wing offense in that playbook...sigh... Anyhow, tell me one more time why playing man to man is a terrible thing? Im still not sure I really get it. Calande, you dont get the point!! You CANNOT play man every down vs a team who likes to spread it out. Here is a little video for you.. Who covers the #3 receiver on the 3 side of a 3x2 empty set for you? If #1 and #2 run slants.. and #3 runs a bubble.. what path does the defender over #3 take to cover? If he goes to him now, then what happens when the Bubble turns into a Wheel? If he goes over top, what happens if the ball is thrown to him now.. what happens if #1 blocks 2nd defender.. #2 blocks 3rd defender? As in Bubble Screen.. Now 1st defender has to recognize it and then make the play? Then I show you a bunch where #3 runs a Slant and Out behind two slants.. how is your 3rd defender going to get through that traffic to buzz down on that route?? And you say cover 2 man under.. well whats your adjustment to Empty? Do you vacate the middle of the field completely?? What about QB Draw?? There it is.. please explain what you would do.. You cant just say.. I will teach them how to defend everything.. show us, tell us.. what is the adjustment to these plays..
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Post by brophy on Jul 27, 2007 8:33:34 GMT -6
Steve,
Don't take this the wrong way, but the whole reason this 'argument' has gone on as long as it has, I believe, is because you really don't have a real concept of how the quick passing game works. It involves a little more than "you run here, you run there....and we'll throw it to one of you guys"
Designing a defense to stop what an offense does.........if there is no offense, what are you defending?
You are running defense blindly without even recognizing WHAT an offense is attempting to do....without realizing where you are willingly making your unit weak.
I haven't seen where you have demonstrated any working knowledge of how protection, route combos, or passing mechanics works in the passing game.
And I believe THAT is where this disconnect lays.
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 27, 2007 8:34:55 GMT -6
first why assume that we cant defend bunch? If we practice our reactions to bunch and mesh/rub every day we dont necessarily need to do anything different. The kids are taught to decide if and when they need to banjo a receiver for example. Why assume that just because the offense schemes to beat man with its bunch rub package that it will indeed beat the man defense? Maybe it wont, but that is what it is designed to do. But how are you going to press the off men? If your guys is more physical than my guy.. and can get his hands on him NOW and rough him up and make him work to get away.. then yea you can do some things.. BUT.. WE do not just sit back and allow you to rough us up all night.. we have different adjustments to press and will allow our selves some clean releases.. you think just because you rep it everyday that you can be ready for it?? How about this.. who do you YOU have on your team who will run a route as good as even my 5th best receiver to duplicate it in practice? Sure your guys look like studs in practice jamming another corner back.. but what about when they go up against my guys who are taught how to beat the press?? Steve, bottom line.. if you and I play.. and you insist on going man all night.. (high school we play at night) I will score as much as I want.. 1:30 to 2:30 in this video.. Great team.. went 8-2 regular season.. ran a split 6 or something.. played man every down.. we passed for 362 yards on them.. Im disappointed but I cant get that video to work. 362 yards...not that much really. If youd rushed for that much Id have been impressed. have seen teams throw for 400 and LOSE. Congrats on the win though. I think it takes more than "if you play man we will score at will" or "we can name the score" to convince me that my kids cant cover your kids and my kids cant hit your qb and rattle his teeth. I think it takes more than "you do this and ILl do that" because the kids are the ones you coach against. its not what you do, its what the kids do. my kids will do as I have coached them to do because I have not robbed peter to pay paul, the more schemes we install the more watered down each scheme becomes and the more chances we incur to shoot ourselves in teh foot with blown coverages and assignment error. how many times this season in college, high school and the pros do you think you watched a wr run a deep route and NO ONE ON THE DEFENSE BOTHERED TO COVER THE GUY? it happens alot, why? THE KIDS ARE CONFUSED, TOO MANY COVERAGES AND TOO MUCH THINKING AND NOT ENOUGH PRACTICE TIME.... guess how many times it happened to my kids? zero. Yes, I had a linebacker miss a back coming out and yes I had a 7 tech jam a te and let him go while peeking into the backfield once. very easy for me to KNOW who blew the assignement. bottom line for me is that I believe too many coaches give their kids way too much, way too much. IM from a different school of thought than some of you. My kids have always loved being able to play football with a ferocity because they are so comfortable with their limited assignments. Whatever I have given up by being "one dimensional" which some of you seem to think we must be, we have gained so much more by being simple and sound and making the kids feel confident. If each corner and lber on my team knows 100% on every snap what his assignment is then I will get 100% of their play making ability out of them. If they are confused even a little bit their athleticims and play making ability goes way down.
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 27, 2007 8:35:49 GMT -6
Steve, Don't take this the wrong way, but the whole reason this 'argument' has gone on as long as it has, I believe, is because you really don't have a real concept of how the quick passing game works. It involves a little more than " you run here, you run there....and we'll throw it to one of you guys"Designing a defense to stop what an offense does.........if there is no offense, what are you defending? You are running defense blindly without even recognizing WHAT an offense is attempting to do....without realizing where you are willingly making your unit weak. I haven't seen where you have demonstrated any working knowledge of how protection, route combos, or passing mechanics works in the passing game. And I believe THAT is where this disconnect lays. well, im a point above retarded but you guys seem to be givng me lots of attention and me like that
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 27, 2007 8:37:13 GMT -6
first why assume that we cant defend bunch? If we practice our reactions to bunch and mesh/rub every day we dont necessarily need to do anything different. The kids are taught to decide if and when they need to banjo a receiver for example. Why assume that just because the offense schemes to beat man with its bunch rub package that it will indeed beat the man defense? Maybe it wont, but that is what it is designed to do. But how are you going to press the off men? If your guys is more physical than my guy.. and can get his hands on him NOW and rough him up and make him work to get away.. then yea you can do some things.. BUT.. WE do not just sit back and allow you to rough us up all night.. we have different adjustments to press and will allow our selves some clean releases.. you think just because you rep it everyday that you can be ready for it?? How about this.. who do you YOU have on your team who will run a route as good as even my 5th best receiver to duplicate it in practice? Sure your guys look like studs in practice jamming another corner back.. but what about when they go up against my guys who are taught how to beat the press?? Steve, bottom line.. if you and I play.. and you insist on going man all night.. (high school we play at night) I will score as much as I want.. 3:15 to 2:26 in this video.. Great team.. went 8-2 regular season.. ran a split 6 or something.. played man every down.. we passed for 362 yards on them.. air- have you read any of the thread? i got that video to work, i dont see press coverage there.
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Post by brophy on Jul 27, 2007 8:38:04 GMT -6
3:15 to 2:26 in this video.. Great team.. went 8-2 regular season.. ran a split 6 or something.. played man every down.. we passed for 362 yards on them.. I think this illustrates that no matter how many people you rush, no matter how baaaad you want to hurt that QB..... NO ONE will get within a yard or two of him before the ball is thrown. It is simply a matter of physics Snap and throw........... Can your players run 5(+width of 3-4 yards) in 2 seconds?
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 27, 2007 8:38:12 GMT -6
quit talking in circles and defend your stance.. what do you do when the team does this or does that.. look back at my last post on page 4 and tell me what you would do sack your qb. watch your rec drop the ball, watch you throw your head set down in the dirt and blame your jr high coach for failing to prepare your kids for the chuck and duck. ;D
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Post by Coach Huey on Jul 27, 2007 8:39:20 GMT -6
i'm going to lock this here shortly, so we can move on to something else. steve had various opportunities to explain some adjustments and since all this thing is turning into is "my mom is prettier than your mom" junk rather than any schematic adjustments there is no need for it to continue.
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Post by brophy on Jul 27, 2007 8:40:44 GMT -6
.... guess how many times it happened to my kids? zero. against how many HS quarterbacks?
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Post by airraider on Jul 27, 2007 8:42:06 GMT -6
Maybe it wont, but that is what it is designed to do. But how are you going to press the off men? If your guys is more physical than my guy.. and can get his hands on him NOW and rough him up and make him work to get away.. then yea you can do some things.. BUT.. WE do not just sit back and allow you to rough us up all night.. we have different adjustments to press and will allow our selves some clean releases.. you think just because you rep it everyday that you can be ready for it?? How about this.. who do you YOU have on your team who will run a route as good as even my 5th best receiver to duplicate it in practice? Sure your guys look like studs in practice jamming another corner back.. but what about when they go up against my guys who are taught how to beat the press?? Steve, bottom line.. if you and I play.. and you insist on going man all night.. (high school we play at night) I will score as much as I want.. 1:30 to 2:30 in this video.. Great team.. went 8-2 regular season.. ran a split 6 or something.. played man every down.. we passed for 362 yards on them.. Im disappointed but I cant get that video to work. 362 yards...not that much really. If youd rushed for that much Id have been impressed. have seen teams throw for 400 and LOSE. Congrats on the win though. I think it takes more than "if you play man we will score at will" or "we can name the score" to convince me that my kids cant cover your kids and my kids cant hit your qb and rattle his teeth. I think it takes more than "you do this and ILl do that" because the kids are the ones you coach against. its not what you do, its what the kids do. my kids will do as I have coached them to do because I have not robbed peter to pay paul, the more schemes we install the more watered down each scheme becomes and the more chances we incur to shoot ourselves in teh foot with blown coverages and assignment error. how many times this season in college, high school and the pros do you think you watched a wr run a deep route and NO ONE ON THE DEFENSE BOTHERED TO COVER THE GUY? it happens alot, why? THE KIDS ARE CONFUSED, TOO MANY COVERAGES AND TOO MUCH THINKING AND NOT ENOUGH PRACTICE TIME.... guess how many times it happened to my kids? zero. Yes, I had a linebacker miss a back coming out and yes I had a 7 tech jam a te and let him go while peeking into the backfield once. very easy for me to KNOW who blew the assignement. bottom line for me is that I believe too many coaches give their kids way too much, way too much. IM from a different school of thought than some of you. My kids have always loved being able to play football with a ferocity because they are so comfortable with their limited assignments. Whatever I have given up by being "one dimensional" which some of you seem to think we must be, we have gained so much more by being simple and sound and making the kids feel confident. If each corner and lber on my team knows 100% on every snap what his assignment is then I will get 100% of their play making ability out of them. If they are confused even a little bit their athleticims and play making ability goes way down. once again.. you are just dancing around the topic.. WHO covers #3 vs empty for YOU?? thats a simple question huh?? What does HE do when #3 runs a flare/bubble?? Does he go to him now?? as in behind the LOS and chases.. or does he go flat down the LOS to intercept him.. or does he play over the top?? Why cant you answer the question? You want validity, well give us grounds to give you that.. And you are right, 362 yards isnt much.. unless you are talking about against a 1 loss team in game 6.. with a sophomore QB in only 2.5 quarters of football.. all the damage was done in the first half and the series following halftime..
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 27, 2007 8:42:25 GMT -6
first why assume that we cant defend bunch? If we practice our reactions to bunch and mesh/rub every day we dont necessarily need to do anything different. The kids are taught to decide if and when they need to banjo a receiver for example. Why assume that just because the offense schemes to beat man with its bunch rub package that it will indeed beat the man defense? Maybe it wont, but that is what it is designed to do. But how are you going to press the off men? If your guys is more physical than my guy.. and can get his hands on him NOW and rough him up and make him work to get away.. then yea you can do some things.. BUT.. WE do not just sit back and allow you to rough us up all night.. we have different adjustments to press and will allow our selves some clean releases.. you think just because you rep it everyday that you can be ready for it?? How about this.. who do you YOU have on your team who will run a route as good as even my 5th best receiver to duplicate it in practice? Sure your guys look like studs in practice jamming another corner back.. but what about when they go up against my guys who are taught how to beat the press?? Steve, bottom line.. if you and I play.. and you insist on going man all night.. (high school we play at night) I will score as much as I want.. 3:15 to 2:26 in this video.. Great team.. went 8-2 regular season.. ran a split 6 or something.. played man every down.. we passed for 362 yards on them.. dude, they are playing zone?! whats the point of putting up that video? I see receivers taking free inside releases, running thru zones...show me your kids beating press man every down...you must have some video of that. your video actually makes my point for me. look at how these kids arent covering anyone, just grass. look at how the speed running free allows you timing to throw to a spot,...making my point for me.
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 27, 2007 8:44:05 GMT -6
Im disappointed but I cant get that video to work. 362 yards...not that much really. If youd rushed for that much Id have been impressed. have seen teams throw for 400 and LOSE. Congrats on the win though. I think it takes more than "if you play man we will score at will" or "we can name the score" to convince me that my kids cant cover your kids and my kids cant hit your qb and rattle his teeth. I think it takes more than "you do this and ILl do that" because the kids are the ones you coach against. its not what you do, its what the kids do. my kids will do as I have coached them to do because I have not robbed peter to pay paul, the more schemes we install the more watered down each scheme becomes and the more chances we incur to shoot ourselves in teh foot with blown coverages and assignment error. how many times this season in college, high school and the pros do you think you watched a wr run a deep route and NO ONE ON THE DEFENSE BOTHERED TO COVER THE GUY? it happens alot, why? THE KIDS ARE CONFUSED, TOO MANY COVERAGES AND TOO MUCH THINKING AND NOT ENOUGH PRACTICE TIME.... guess how many times it happened to my kids? zero. Yes, I had a linebacker miss a back coming out and yes I had a 7 tech jam a te and let him go while peeking into the backfield once. very easy for me to KNOW who blew the assignement. bottom line for me is that I believe too many coaches give their kids way too much, way too much. IM from a different school of thought than some of you. My kids have always loved being able to play football with a ferocity because they are so comfortable with their limited assignments. Whatever I have given up by being "one dimensional" which some of you seem to think we must be, we have gained so much more by being simple and sound and making the kids feel confident. If each corner and lber on my team knows 100% on every snap what his assignment is then I will get 100% of their play making ability out of them. If they are confused even a little bit their athleticims and play making ability goes way down. once again.. you are just dancing around the topic.. WHO covers #3 vs empty for YOU?? thats a simple question huh?? What does HE do when #3 runs a flare/bubble?? Does he go to him now?? as in behind the LOS and chases.. or does he go flat down the LOS to intercept him.. or does he play over the top?? Why cant you answer the question? You want validity, well give us grounds to give you that.. And you are right, 362 yards isnt much.. unless you are talking about against a 1 loss team in game 6.. with a sophomore QB in only 2.5 quarters of football.. all the damage was done in the first half and the series following halftime.. vs empty my fred adjusts, hes got that man one on one. I dont take mike out of the box ever. and again, that video doesnt show a team in press man which is what im talking about, you shredded a zone or some loose man.
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Post by Coach Huey on Jul 27, 2007 8:44:40 GMT -6
,...making my point for me. you haven't made a point. you just said play man coverage ... but have yet to dissect any of the "how". several questions have been posed on the technqiues, assignments, adjustments yet no answers... can you give some of those answers so any point can be made?
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Post by airraider on Jul 27, 2007 8:44:54 GMT -6
Before this is locked.. I just want to say I just lost any little bit of credibility I ever gave you Steve..
Like Huey said.. you just want to play the mine is better than yours game.. instead of being an adult here and giving facts on your adjustments..
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 27, 2007 8:46:16 GMT -6
.... guess how many times it happened to my kids? zero. against how many HS quarterbacks? none brophy, 0 td passes allowed, 8th graders. all of the offenses we played against were designed by the hs coaches the 8th grade coaches were hired by. none of the high school offenses modified for 8th graders were able to generate a td pass vs my unsound man press coverage. we scored 4 defensive tds on their passes though. 26 sacks in 7 games. Again, I dont know what that would compute to at the hs level but IM confident things would go well. howd your team do again? ...was it 0-fer?
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Post by airraider on Jul 27, 2007 8:46:17 GMT -6
Maybe it wont, but that is what it is designed to do. But how are you going to press the off men? If your guys is more physical than my guy.. and can get his hands on him NOW and rough him up and make him work to get away.. then yea you can do some things.. BUT.. WE do not just sit back and allow you to rough us up all night.. we have different adjustments to press and will allow our selves some clean releases.. you think just because you rep it everyday that you can be ready for it?? How about this.. who do you YOU have on your team who will run a route as good as even my 5th best receiver to duplicate it in practice? Sure your guys look like studs in practice jamming another corner back.. but what about when they go up against my guys who are taught how to beat the press?? Steve, bottom line.. if you and I play.. and you insist on going man all night.. (high school we play at night) I will score as much as I want.. 3:15 to 2:26 in this video.. Great team.. went 8-2 regular season.. ran a split 6 or something.. played man every down.. we passed for 362 yards on them.. air- have you read any of the thread? i got that video to work, i dont see press coverage there. I didnt say press.. I said man.. You dont press someone that is 2/10ths faster than you in the 40.. and that last play they did press and we still made the catch..
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 27, 2007 8:47:47 GMT -6
your video doesnt prove anything, show me some press man.
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 27, 2007 8:49:51 GMT -6
Before this is locked.. I just want to say I just lost any little bit of credibility I ever gave you Steve.. Like Huey said.. you just want to play the mine is better than yours game.. instead of being an adult here and giving facts on your adjustments.. NO actually, im not the one who wants to play any games, you are the one who created the "what if" and "what if" scenarios. As usual I have to assume that every rec on your team runs a 4.3 and has a 48 inch vertical, your qb throws 60 yard frozen ropes, your entire oline pass pro perfectly and can pick up any and all stunts, your qb will kill us with the draw AND THE OPTION and your qb always finds the open man and your rec never drop the ball yadda yadda yadda....
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Post by airraider on Jul 27, 2007 8:50:28 GMT -6
against how many HS quarterbacks? none brophy, 0 td passes allowed, 8th graders. all of the offenses we played against were designed by the hs coaches the 8th grade coaches were hired by. none of the high school offenses modified for 8th graders were able to generate a td pass vs my unsound man press coverage. we scored 4 defensive tds on their passes though. 26 sacks in 7 games. Again, I dont know what that would compute to at the hs level but IM confident things would go well. howd your team do again? ...was it 0-fer? Steve, just because I hire a coach to run my offense at the 8th grade level.. just because I coach the coach up.. does not mean that an 8th grade QB will be able to do the things that even a sophomore can do.. Evangel runs the spread at the 7th and 8th grade level.. they throw it around a lot.. but its totally different than the high school team.. they throw a lot of short stuff and bubble routes.. Once again.. Man can work all day at the youth and junior high levels.. But not at the high school level.. ([glow=red,2,300]UNLESS YOU ARE JUST BETTER ATHLETICALLY)[/glow]
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Post by airraider on Jul 27, 2007 8:51:53 GMT -6
your video doesnt prove anything, show me some press man. It does prove something.. It proves that even a good team cannot run man all night long.. that is what it proves.. If they would have tried to press, it would have been even worse.. They tried to play loose so that they didnt get beat deep.. and they still got beat all night..
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Post by Coach Huey on Jul 27, 2007 8:52:41 GMT -6
NO actually, im not the one who wants to play any games, you are the one who created the "what if" and "what if" scenarios. As usual I have to assume that every rec on your team runs a 4.3 and has a 48 inch vertical, your qb throws 60 yard frozen ropes, your entire oline pass pro perfectly and can pick up any and all stunts, your qb will kill us with the draw AND THE OPTION and your qb always finds the open man and your rec never drop the ball yadda yadda yadda.... ok ... if we are unable to discuss specifics to the schemes then no need for this to continue. enough time has lasped for any "point" to have been made but think we all know
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Post by brophy on Jul 27, 2007 8:55:22 GMT -6
Where can I buy these videos...I'm impressed
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Post by groundchuck on Jul 28, 2007 11:24:55 GMT -6
I will say this: When I play against spread teams I will not run man all night and blitz b/c any spread play caller knows how to rape me hard core. For example one year we were playing a private school who ran spread and were getting to the CB with a 5 man rush b/c we were heck-bebnt to get to him. After about the 3rd time we sacked him he threw a screen pass for 45 yards and a TD.
The season that I ran spread (with a OC to call the plays) we picked apart man teams. We broke the school record for passing yards in a game b/c the other team played straight up cover 0 and never made any adjustments except said "sack the QB". So we called screen and 3 step all night and torched them.
My point is even at the class A level in HS you had better have some scheme answers in your pocket b/c the coaches are usually smart enough to get you if you don't.
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Post by tog on Jul 28, 2007 13:29:55 GMT -6
now unlocked
be nice or this whole thread will disappear
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Post by dubber on Jul 30, 2007 14:55:56 GMT -6
?
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jno
Sophomore Member
Posts: 187
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Post by jno on Jul 31, 2007 5:15:04 GMT -6
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