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Post by jcarbon2 on Jul 23, 2007 16:41:28 GMT -6
Coaches,
I know most of you are from all over the great USA but I would like to hear what programs in your state fit "4 plays is all it takes to win state". Would like to hear what schools in your state keep going back to the big show with what seems to be a very simple scheme.
Lets get this started;
Smith Center High School, Kansas. HC Roger Barta. Run inside and outside belly and pass an average of twice a game.
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Post by Yash on Jul 23, 2007 17:16:18 GMT -6
Ashwaubenon Wisconsin. It seems like all they need to do is line up in I formation and run Power, Toss, Trap, Dive option.
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Post by okpowerspread on Jul 23, 2007 22:42:07 GMT -6
Gleenpool in OK goes deep in the playoffs every year and their bread and butter is power and power pass.
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Post by mountiefan74 on Jul 23, 2007 23:05:25 GMT -6
Wheeling Central in Wheeling WV
They used to run belly, belly slide, down, buck sweep and trap
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Post by CVBears on Jul 24, 2007 0:04:50 GMT -6
I'm waiting for someone to post, "mesh, smash, money, qb draw"
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Post by backercoach on Jul 24, 2007 9:54:24 GMT -6
Everett High in Everett, MA
They run the double wing with a ton of success. Very few plays, very many wins
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Post by dacoachmo on Jul 24, 2007 10:03:22 GMT -6
I'm waiting for someone to post, "mesh, smash, money, qb draw" what's money for you?
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Post by shotgun321 on Jul 24, 2007 10:26:41 GMT -6
For us, money is going deep
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 24, 2007 10:31:09 GMT -6
For these schools that have been listed - how many of them could run anything and still be as successful? In other words, they simply have the kids, staff, facilities, and tradition to run over the opposition?
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Post by ocinaz on Jul 24, 2007 11:37:36 GMT -6
Agree wtih fbodc, most of the time these teams can just flat out win/beat you up regardless of what they run...Don't want this post to turn into this is better than that/this offense is better, etc...
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Post by brophy on Jul 24, 2007 11:40:13 GMT -6
Our FOUR plays are 1) Run 2) Pass 3) Special Teams 4) Great Defense
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 24, 2007 12:18:42 GMT -6
By the way, OUR 4 base plays are:
Fly Sweep Dive PA Option
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Post by CVBears on Jul 24, 2007 12:53:45 GMT -6
I'm waiting for someone to post, "mesh, smash, money, qb draw" what's money for you? from outside in: take (not a fade, but often mistaken for one); corner; flare
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Post by Mav on Jul 24, 2007 13:11:24 GMT -6
Everett High in Everett, MA They run the double wing with a ton of success. Very few plays, very many wins IMHO, Everett is a perfect example of a team who could run almost any scheme and be successful.
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Post by dubber on Jul 24, 2007 13:58:22 GMT -6
I'm waiting for someone to post, "mesh, smash, money, qb draw" Funny how everytime someone says "that is a really simple offensive team", they are never talking about a spread team/passing team.......even though they may in fact be more simple (simplier?) than a run first team IMHO.
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 24, 2007 14:09:17 GMT -6
I've seen two separate Spread Gun teams who just let their stud QB take the snap and run all over the place. He was also good enough passing the ball if the defense decided to load the box. VERY simple but effective because they just couldn't tackle him.
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Post by ttowntiger on Jul 24, 2007 17:36:52 GMT -6
That's a big misconception about the spread- that it's a complex offense. I dare say most spread schemes are much simpler than, say the wing t. For one thing, if you spread the field, you are going to see about 3 or 4 different fronts 95% of the time. This greatly simplifies blocking schemes and playcalling. But if you bunch everyone in tight, you will see a million different fronts which require many blocking adjustments, etc (ie-more confusion). So normally, spread schemes don't have to be as complex. Look at Southlake Carroll- 4 runs, 5 or so quick game, 5 or so dropback passes, a few screens, and that's it. And most Air Raid schemes carry around 20 plays.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 24, 2007 19:20:25 GMT -6
John Curtis Christian School-- 21 State titles, running the dive. (The are a SBV team, but they run a dive or cutback more than 50% of the time). Occasional IV, a few OV, and a few veer pass.
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Post by kkennedy on Jul 24, 2007 19:48:50 GMT -6
Any of the succesful fullouse T teams in Michigan,
trap,
lead,
keep out
pass off of keep out,
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Post by biggroff on Jul 24, 2007 21:28:56 GMT -6
Here is my favorite team to watch in Illinois...Downers Grove North. They are traditional playoff power year in and year out with very few division 1 kids. They went to the semi-Finals in 2003 and won state in 2004 in class 8A (Largest in Illinois). For 25 years they have run these 4 plays...
1) Veer 2) QB Follow (Literally QB ISO) 3) Load Option 4) Midline
90% of the time they line up in Pro or twins set. Just to get crazy they may line up in open twins.
Saw their coaching staff talk at a clinic. They had a 90 minute segment to explain their offensive blocking schemes. Their presentation took 30 minutes.
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 25, 2007 18:24:36 GMT -6
That's a big misconception about the spread- that it's a complex offense. I dare say most spread schemes are much simpler than, say the wing t. For one thing, if you spread the field, you are going to see about 3 or 4 different fronts 95% of the time. This greatly simplifies blocking schemes and playcalling. But if you bunch everyone in tight, you will see a million different fronts which require many blocking adjustments, etc (ie-more confusion). So normally, spread schemes don't have to be as complex. Look at Southlake Carroll- 4 runs, 5 or so quick game, 5 or so dropback passes, a few screens, and that's it. And most Air Raid schemes carry around 20 plays. "But if you bunch everyone in tight, you will see a million different fronts which require many blocking adjustments" eh, im not sure thats entirely accurate. How may "fronts" do you really have to teach as an oline coach for the dw offense? we use blocking rules that cover all of the situations so that simplifies things greatly but honestly most of the time it comes down to four looks... guards covered, no nose(ie 44, wide tackle 6 ) nose, guards not covered- (52) nose, guards covered (71, 72, double eagle) gapped As and Bs (gap 8)(variations of a 62) however, that said, to the common fan the run game is "simple" in that they probably dont have a clue what the oline is actually doing to open the holes and allow the peices to of the play to work.
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Post by dubber on Jul 25, 2007 20:09:31 GMT -6
That's a big misconception about the spread- that it's a complex offense. I dare say most spread schemes are much simpler than, say the wing t. For one thing, if you spread the field, you are going to see about 3 or 4 different fronts 95% of the time. This greatly simplifies blocking schemes and playcalling. But if you bunch everyone in tight, you will see a million different fronts which require many blocking adjustments, etc (ie-more confusion). So normally, spread schemes don't have to be as complex. Look at Southlake Carroll- 4 runs, 5 or so quick game, 5 or so dropback passes, a few screens, and that's it. And most Air Raid schemes carry around 20 plays. "But if you bunch everyone in tight, you will see a million different fronts which require many blocking adjustments" eh, im not sure thats entirely accurate. How may "fronts" do you really have to teach as an oline coach for the dw offense? we use blocking rules that cover all of the situations so that simplifies things greatly but honestly most of the time it comes down to four looks... guards covered, no nose(ie 44, wide tackle 6 ) nose, guards not covered- (52) nose, guards covered (71, 72, double eagle) gapped As and Bs (gap 8)(variations of a 62) however, that said, to the common fan the run game is "simple" in that they probably dont have a clue what the oline is actually doing to open the holes and allow the peices to of the play to work. What about the different alignments? I can cover a guard with a 2i, 2 or 3 play him straight up, slant him, tilt him, zone blitz him, loop him, stunt him. Gap On Down ........I know, I know, but at some point, people can mess with your rules, you gotta start getting more complex to block it all up IMO
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Post by coachveer on Jul 25, 2007 21:14:46 GMT -6
Any of the succesful fullouse T teams in Michigan, trap, lead, keep out pass off of keep out, I hate playing some of those guys...They do a great job..
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mojoben
Sophomore Member
Posts: 148
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Post by mojoben on Jul 25, 2007 21:27:45 GMT -6
I coach in Kansas and yes no one is better then Roger Barta at Smith Center running the Barta Bone (Wishbone). They will straight up tell you what play they will run if they like and you still can't stop it. It helps they have the belly bone down to an exact science. Great size, speed, and strength year in and year out. They only run a few plays period and maybe throw once a game (generally on 2-pt conversions).
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Post by wildcat on Jul 25, 2007 21:27:52 GMT -6
Here is my favorite team to watch in Illinois...Downers Grove North. They are traditional playoff power year in and year out with very few division 1 kids. They went to the semi-Finals in 2003 and won state in 2004 in class 8A (Largest in Illinois). For 25 years they have run these 4 plays... 1) Veer 2) QB Follow (Literally QB ISO) 3) Load Option 4) Midline 90% of the time they line up in Pro or twins set. Just to get crazy they may line up in open twins. Saw their coaching staff talk at a clinic. They had a 90 minute segment to explain their offensive blocking schemes. Their presentation took 30 minutes. grof - I'm a Naperville North alum...knew DGN well...I think you are right about their offense! Pretty sure that is what they were running back in '90-'91 when I would have played against them . IIRC, they had a stud tailback named Jeremy Sample who went to Notre Dame. Pete Ventrelli is a heck of a coach...any time I saw him speak at a clinic I was at, I made sure to check him out.
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Post by mountiefan74 on Jul 25, 2007 23:12:08 GMT -6
dubber, You still have basic rules that cover everything. Most of the wing-t involves a down block and a kick out. In most cases, if you block down you are not gonna be wrong.
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 26, 2007 4:58:34 GMT -6
"But if you bunch everyone in tight, you will see a million different fronts which require many blocking adjustments" eh, im not sure thats entirely accurate. How may "fronts" do you really have to teach as an oline coach for the dw offense? we use blocking rules that cover all of the situations so that simplifies things greatly but honestly most of the time it comes down to four looks... guards covered, no nose(ie 44, wide tackle 6 ) nose, guards not covered- (52) nose, guards covered (71, 72, double eagle) gapped As and Bs (gap 8)(variations of a 62) however, that said, to the common fan the run game is "simple" in that they probably dont have a clue what the oline is actually doing to open the holes and allow the peices to of the play to work. What about the different alignments? I can cover a guard with a 2i, 2 or 3 play him straight up, slant him, tilt him, zone blitz him, loop him, stunt him. Gap On Down ........I know, I know, but at some point, people can mess with your rules, you gotta start getting more complex to block it all up IMO hee hee...I hear ya, we treat a head up 2 tech the same as a shaded 2 or tight three, but you have to understand that the tight splits do something that you cant do with 2 or 3 foot line splits, we can double team two men with three...thats right, we can double two with three. We call it "dynamite" and its a very simple call. For example lets say you want to cover the center and both guards with a pair of tight three techs. We might decide to call a power with the three tech double teamed but maybe the nose is slanting and it bothers the center, we can use the dynamite technique with the playside guard throwing a stiff arm into the shoulder of the nose while the center is reaching him. or we can outright double the nose and throw the stiff arm into the three tech while the tackle is down blocking him. so no, those lil shades dont bother us , the narrow stances and tight splits do what they are designed to do, prevent penetration and help us create angles and double teams. Lets also not forget that it does something else incredibly valuable, it brings our tightends into the fbz so we can cut the backside or playside with our tes. As far as doing lots of slanting or looping or dropping guys into a zone from the line...two or three wedges will put an end to that. You cannot play light on your hands and survive the wedge too long. This is why so many defenses just give up and start diving their dline into the grass.
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Post by coachcb on Jul 26, 2007 8:31:27 GMT -6
The best teams (lots of talent, great coaching) can easily beat you with a base package of 4 plays.
Look at Columbine and Thunder Ridge in CO- they hand people their butts with simple schemes- based off of the belly series. But; they have the horses to do it, year in and year out. Don't get me wrong; they are very well prepared by the coaching staff.
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Post by dubber on Jul 26, 2007 8:49:10 GMT -6
What about the different alignments? I can cover a guard with a 2i, 2 or 3 play him straight up, slant him, tilt him, zone blitz him, loop him, stunt him. Gap On Down ........I know, I know, but at some point, people can mess with your rules, you gotta start getting more complex to block it all up IMO hee hee...I hear ya, we treat a head up 2 tech the same as a shaded 2 or tight three, but you have to understand that the tight splits do something that you cant do with 2 or 3 foot line splits, we can double team two men with three...thats right, we can double two with three. We call it "dynamite" and its a very simple call. For example lets say you want to cover the center and both guards with a pair of tight three techs. We might decide to call a power with the three tech double teamed but maybe the nose is slanting and it bothers the center, we can use the dynamite technique with the playside guard throwing a stiff arm into the shoulder of the nose while the center is reaching him. or we can outright double the nose and throw the stiff arm into the three tech while the tackle is down blocking him. so no, those lil shades dont bother us , the narrow stances and tight splits do what they are designed to do, prevent penetration and help us create angles and double teams. Lets also not forget that it does something else incredibly valuable, it brings our tightends into the fbz so we can cut the backside or playside with our tes. As far as doing lots of slanting or looping or dropping guys into a zone from the line...two or three wedges will put an end to that. You cannot play light on your hands and survive the wedge too long. This is why so many defenses just give up and start diving their dline into the grass. I guess tight splits does change that. Good point. I guess the balance of the DW lends itself to limited fronts. But I still think spread limits the looks even more. Unless you're really out manned, 7 in the box equals quick throws and TDs Really, you gotta go with 6 or less Not a lot of different things to do with 6 guys in the box But if I had 11 guys to move around
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Post by 3ydsandacloud on Jul 26, 2007 10:00:53 GMT -6
Smith Center has great kids, coaches and facilities. They would be a great team in any scheme. I don't think that they would be on a ~50 game winning streak if they got complicated on O. Personally I think their "simple" but almost freaking impossible to defend offense allows them to spend more time on defense than most of the teams they face (most play ironman). They are known for their offense, but I think their D is actually better. Especially when their ball control offense eats up near full quarters on single drives.
For example, they won their substate game against a very good St. Francis team by a score of 6-2.
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