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Post by airraider on Nov 21, 2015 12:40:00 GMT -6
If two of your top players.. 1 of which is a top recruit in the country get arrested for having consensual sex with a 14 year old... and you know it happened... not accused... but they admitted to it.. Do you let them play? Several coaching buddies in the area last night have been conversing with me on the topic... some said they would let them play.. some say no... In this case.. they played last night.. www.ksla.com/story/30571879/top-hs-football-recruit-1-of-2-n-webster-players-arrested-on-sex-charge |
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Post by bigmoot on Nov 21, 2015 12:41:59 GMT -6
Depends if you want to sell your soul. Arrested? No play.
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Post by fantom on Nov 21, 2015 12:43:10 GMT -6
Misdemeanor? I'd let them play.
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Post by airraider on Nov 21, 2015 13:02:19 GMT -6
Misdemeanor? I'd let them play. Got caught stealing from the local store... misdemeanor... still let them play? I think its more of the message it sends if you do vs don't that is the issue. I am not sure I could let them play... now obviously not being in the situation it is easy for me to say that.. Round 2 of the playoffs.. vs the same team that has beaten you the last 2 years... no situation a coach wants to be in for sure. |
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Post by fantom on Nov 21, 2015 13:06:07 GMT -6
Misdemeanor? I'd let them play. Got caught stealing from the local store... misdemeanor... still let them play? I think its more of the message it sends if you do vs don't that is the issue. I am not sure I could let them play... now obviously not being in the situation it is easy for me to say that.. Round 2 of the playoffs.. vs the same team that has beaten you the last 2 years... no situation a coach wants to be in for sure. If the school didn't enforce discipline we won't either. I have to add that I'm an assistant, not the HC, so this is just an opinion. If the Hc felt differently, I wouldn't argue. |
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Post by 33coach on Nov 21, 2015 13:09:11 GMT -6
If two of your top players.. 1 of which is a top recruit in the country get arrested for having consensual sex with a 14 year old... and you know it happened... not accused... but they admitted to it.. Do you let them play? Several coaching buddies in the area last night have been conversing with me on the topic... some said they would let them play.. some say no... In this case.. they played last night.. www.ksla.com/story/30571879/top-hs-football-recruit-1-of-2-n-webster-players-arrested-on-sex-chargeIn that case. Id let them play. Unless there is a serious allogation (non-consensual...etc) I'm assuming the players are under 18 or just 18, she's a freshman he is a senior...? So unless the school makes me do something...I wouldn't. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 21, 2015 13:11:42 GMT -6
Misdemeanor? I'd let them play. Got caught stealing from the local store... misdemeanor... still let them play? I think its more of the message it sends if you do vs don't that is the issue. I am not sure I could let them play... now obviously not being in the situation it is easy for me to say that.. Round 2 of the playoffs.. vs the same team that has beaten you the last 2 years... no situation a coach wants to be in for sure. Man, I agree... it is not a situation I would want to be in for sure. I would think I probably would NOT play the kid if he was arrested for something like theft, vandalism, etc. regardless as to misdemeanor status. But this particular charge is so tricky. However, after some thought, I think I would be pretty black and white on this issue. The Law is the Law and it was broken. No play. |
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Post by airraider on Nov 21, 2015 13:17:12 GMT -6
Got caught stealing from the local store... misdemeanor... still let them play? I think its more of the message it sends if you do vs don't that is the issue. I am not sure I could let them play... now obviously not being in the situation it is easy for me to say that.. Round 2 of the playoffs.. vs the same team that has beaten you the last 2 years... no situation a coach wants to be in for sure. Man, I agree... it is not a situation I would want to be in for sure. I would think I probably would NOT play the kid if he was arrested for something like theft, vandalism, etc. regardless as to misdemeanor status. But this particular charge is so tricky. However, after some thought, I think I would be pretty black and white on this issue. The Law is the Law and it was broken. No play. Very tricky for sure.. especially with all the NCAA and NFL junk going on lately... The district super said let them play... but of course there is no way he would be the guy to pull that trigger on saying no. Parents are business owners in the town and are supposedly going to raise a big stink... I do not think this is over... The super stud is only 17... the other kid is 18.. but were only a handful of months from being a full 4 year difference and it being a felony.. I almost took a job at this school... glad I am not mixed up in this... could put you on the wrong side of a lot of people's fences depending on how you handle it. |
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Post by Defcord on Nov 21, 2015 15:19:18 GMT -6
I always wonder what happens when you don't play an accused kid and charges are dropped or found not guilty (not case here but could but could happen).
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Post by chi5hi on Nov 21, 2015 18:15:23 GMT -6
People are assumed to be innocent until proven otherwise. Have they been to trial?
If a Judge and Jury say guilty...no question.
Until that happens, be a coach. Do you think the lesson they will learn is "I can have my cake, and eat it, too"?
All actions have consequences. When, in a kid's life, will he learn that? Do you as his coach, believe that YOU have some responsibility there? Y...N?
When the story gets out, and everyone gets to know that you played them...will it reflect positively on the sports program? What will be the effect on your status, your respectability...in the eyes of the other players? Will any of them think they can play the same "games" with the law and not suffer the consequences?
Well, that's my 2 cents.
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Post by airraider on Nov 21, 2015 19:39:57 GMT -6
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Post by groundchuck on Nov 21, 2015 19:48:11 GMT -6
I'm probably going to put that in the principal's lap.
But, what happened to innocent until proven guilty? I like to win. I'm not gonna sell my soul, I like to win.
Do we suspend until we get all the facts or let them play, get the facts, and make a decision before the next game?
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 21, 2015 20:25:08 GMT -6
I'm probably going to put that in the principal's lap. But, what happened to innocent until proven guilty? I like to win. I'm not gonna sell my soul, I like to win. Do we suspend until we get all the facts or let them play, get the facts, and make a decision before the next game? Not to get all lawyer-like, but keep in mind that being guilty, admitting you are guilty, and pleading/being found guilty all follow a different time line in our legal system. |
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Post by airraider on Nov 21, 2015 20:36:39 GMT -6
I'm probably going to put that in the principal's lap. But, what happened to innocent until proven guilty? I like to win. I'm not gonna sell my soul, I like to win. Do we suspend until we get all the facts or let them play, get the facts, and make a decision before the next game? These kids did admit to it... I am sure the charges will fall... but they did for sure do what they were accused of. |
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Post by airraider on Nov 21, 2015 20:38:58 GMT -6
This kid is also the town's favorite son... if he didn't play, the whole town (minus those friends with the girl's family) would be calling for his head.. tough situation for sure.
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Post by s73 on Nov 21, 2015 21:10:13 GMT -6
If two of your top players.. 1 of which is a top recruit in the country get arrested for having consensual sex with a 14 year old... and you know it happened... not accused... but they admitted to it.. Do you let them play? Several coaching buddies in the area last night have been conversing with me on the topic... some said they would let them play.. some say no... In this case.. they played last night.. www.ksla.com/story/30571879/top-hs-football-recruit-1-of-2-n-webster-players-arrested-on-sex-chargeI'd play him. In our state 17 is the age of consent. Pretty sure their are thousands of kids in this country who are 17 and have 16 year old girl friends and they "do what they do". Legally no different then 17-14. To me it's just nothing I would get involved in. Otherwise, when does it stop? JMO. |
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Post by s73 on Nov 21, 2015 21:17:14 GMT -6
Actually, just read the article. These 2 are slobs. Could see going the other way on this.
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 21, 2015 21:32:17 GMT -6
If two of your top players.. 1 of which is a top recruit in the country get arrested for having consensual sex with a 14 year old... and you know it happened... not accused... but they admitted to it.. Do you let them play? Several coaching buddies in the area last night have been conversing with me on the topic... some said they would let them play.. some say no... In this case.. they played last night.. www.ksla.com/story/30571879/top-hs-football-recruit-1-of-2-n-webster-players-arrested-on-sex-chargeI'd play him. In our state 17 is the age of consent. Pretty sure their are thousands of kids in this country who are 17 and have 16 year old girl friends and they "do what they do". Legally no different then 17-14. To me it's just nothing I would get involved in. Otherwise, when does it stop? JMO. I understand your POV here, but I just can't agree with it. I don't think it is the place of hs football coaches to say "well, this is kind of an arbitrary law (which is 100% true) " s73 Just out of curiosity, what was written in the articles (I have read them too) that made you decide they were slobs and change your mind? |
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Post by s73 on Nov 21, 2015 22:20:12 GMT -6
I'd play him. In our state 17 is the age of consent. Pretty sure their are thousands of kids in this country who are 17 and have 16 year old girl friends and they "do what they do". Legally no different then 17-14. To me it's just nothing I would get involved in. Otherwise, when does it stop? JMO. I understand your POV here, but I just can't agree with it. I don't think it is the place of hs football coaches to say "well, this is kind of an arbitrary law (which is 100% true) " s73 Just out of curiosity, what was written in the articles (I have read them too) that made you decide they were slobs and change your mind? The fact that it sounds like they both tried to have sex w/ the girl at the same time and it sounds like they tried to do it in a public place at a pep rally. Hate to be crass, but sounds like a bit of a "gang bang" to me. I assumed it was a boyfriend / girlfriend relational thing. Circumstances sound a little more crass w/ possible peer pressure to me when you have 2 older boys possibly pressuring a younger girl. That's my interpretation of the article anyway. Disgusts me personally. |
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Post by Chris Clement on Nov 21, 2015 22:37:20 GMT -6
Confession and conviction can be two very different things. If you want a dissenting argument, what if he's acquitted, and you suspended him, so he misses his senior season and all his offers get pulled.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 4:51:21 GMT -6
Those two gentlemen put themselves before the team. Forget innocent or guilty. They put themselves and as a result of their actions, the High school, their teammates in a negative light. They are not playing This particular.
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Post by coachjm on Nov 22, 2015 10:44:16 GMT -6
This is why school districts have policies.... We are football coaches not judges, to me the wise thing to do is follow any and all school policy that is in place for the district regarding extra curricular activities and criminal charges. This should be determined by the school principal and/or superintendent. Nobody wins in these situations, sad choices generally lead to disappointing outcomes.
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Post by spos21ram on Nov 22, 2015 11:23:06 GMT -6
To kind of go a long with the last post...there should be a school wide policy in place to cover this type of incident, but if there isn't I'm not reacting to that info without speaking to the AD and principal first. Who am I to set a precident? I shouldn't be the one setting that type of policy.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 22, 2015 11:40:36 GMT -6
To kind of go a long with the last post...there should be a school wide policy in place to cover this type of incident, but if there isn't I'm not reacting to that info without speaking to the AD and principal first. Who am I to set a precident? I shouldn't be the one setting that type of policy. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards I agree in general, but I think it would be hard to have a policy for "this type of incident". In fact it is the very nature of this incident that makes the situation so complex. The fact that the charge right now would be VERY VERY serious had they been born 3 or 4 months earlier, and not really anything had they been born 15 or so months later (read: arbitrary nature of the statute) makes it kind of different than a policy covering general arrests doesn't it? |
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Post by spos21ram on Nov 22, 2015 13:28:59 GMT -6
To kind of go a long with the last post...there should be a school wide policy in place to cover this type of incident, but if there isn't I'm not reacting to that info without speaking to the AD and principal first. Who am I to set a precident? I shouldn't be the one setting that type of policy. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards I agree in general, but I think it would be hard to have a policy for "this type of incident". In fact it is the very nature of this incident that makes the situation so complex. The fact that the charge right now would be VERY VERY serious had they been born 3 or 4 months earlier, and not really anything had they been born 15 or so months later (read: arbitrary nature of the statute) makes it kind of different than a policy covering general arrests doesn't it? I don't mean a policy for this exact specific incident. I meant a policy for athletes that get arrested for a misdemeanor, but not yet gone to trial and the same for a felony. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards |
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Post by lilbuck1103 on Nov 22, 2015 14:18:34 GMT -6
Many programs/schools/athletic codes have a "conduct unbecoming of an athlete" clause which is basically a catch all for certain things you wouldn't necessary have a policy on because you couldn't think of every situation. In this case, these young men certainly have met the threshold of "conduct unbecoming of an athlete" and not playing them certainly would demonstrate that you are not necessary enforcing too much punishment before the "guilty" BUT that you are reacting in a way that allows the legal system/ school some time to gather more information and that as a program we will not tolerate behavior that in any way embarrasses the program.
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Post by kcbazooka on Nov 22, 2015 18:59:53 GMT -6
They got arrested? Pretty sure they wouldn't play. I think our state association ( Missouri ) is pretty clear. I know I/we wouldn't play them.
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Post by freezeoption on Nov 22, 2015 19:15:57 GMT -6
yes, in Missouri they broke the citizenship code that students sign with their physical, can't play till it has gone through the courts
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 22, 2015 19:38:07 GMT -6
yes, in Missouri they broke the citizenship code that students sign with their physical, can't play till it has gone through the courts Hmm.. what does the code state? I know I was arrested once... because of a paper work mistake in the DMV that had me driving with a suspended license without my knowledge. In this case, the kids apparently admitted to the act, but now it will play out through the legal system. In my case, I did nothing wrong |
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Post by freezeoption on Nov 22, 2015 19:44:46 GMT -6
if you got arrested and it was supposed to go to court then you are supposed to be out till it goes through court, it says on the code, i don't know if a license issue would count,
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