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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 17:15:47 GMT -6
Some other coaches and I have been collaborating on the status of this board for some time now, and I guess I'll be the guinea pig and go out on a limb and state our concerns. The problem is with the posts such as "What defense works best vs. the spread?" or "Help, I have no running back's what offense do I run?" etc. There seems to be very little creative thought coming from the coaches asking these questions. Now, I'm not belittling those that ask these questions, but it is disturbing to see the amount of coaches on here who are not using critical thinking. This is what we as coaches MUST be is critical thinkers, if not, why are we doing what we are doing? There is no spoonfed answer to many of these questions, as define what is "best", or what is "no running backs". I do agree, questions such as these spark conversation, but each week there is a new thread on a topic that has been covered a thousand times in the past. Use the search funtion folks, that's what it's for! Again, I'm not preaching, I'm just stating facts about what I've seen on this board. When I first joined, there was some dang good discussion on here, and that discussion has diminished through the years and it is sad to watch. Is it generational? I don't know, I posed this same question to brophy a week ago, and he couldn't answer either. I have no explanation, and maybe Coach Huey could shed some light here as to a solution to our problem. I'm not sure there is one, except that those coaches that see these questions simply NOT ANSWER. Please, use the search function when you have a question, many topics have been discussed at length on here and are very valuable in terms of the information they possess. Realize that there is no "best" anything, if there was, EVERYBODY would be running/doing it. Lastly, if you are a gamer coming on here wondering what the best offense/defense is to play on Madden, forget it, that's all gamer sh!t and has nothing to do with happens on here. Ok, I'm going to climb off my soapbox and climb back into that hole I crawled out of. Duece P.S. if you want a real rant you can go here: the12thmanblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/douche-bags.html |
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Post by 33coach on Aug 27, 2012 17:22:15 GMT -6
Coach i agree with you...mostly.
The one issue i have is the 'search function method' whos to say that a better coach on the subject didnt join after that thread is long gone? maybe new issues that werent around popped up....maybe the old issue doesnt apply completely.
I do agree that people need to do there own research..but that shouldnt stop people from asking questions...thatd be like reading a science book from the 1800s to prepare for your physics test tomorrow...
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Post by 33coach on Aug 27, 2012 17:24:52 GMT -6
Coach i agree with you...mostly. The one issue i have is the 'search function method' whos to say that a better coach on the subject didnt join after that thread is long gone? maybe new issues that werent around popped up....maybe the old issue doesnt apply completely. I do agree that people need to do there own research..but that shouldnt stop people from asking questions...thatd be like reading a science book from the 1800s to prepare for your physics test tomorrow... Sent from my DROID Pro using proboards Sent from my DROID Pro using proboards |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 17:41:19 GMT -6
I would agree, however define "best". What does it mean to have no linemen? That's what gets me are the questions like those, that pose a "cookie cutter" answer. We all know football is NOT done via a cookbook method. By doing the research one can formulate opinions on what is "best" in their book, or what will work in their situation. The idea here is that rarely is any problem just localized to the question-asker. Most football problems are not unique, so odds are that question has been asked on here and discussed on here, regardless of when. Sure new issues arise, but the search function would have these "new" issues. Yes, of course if your topic wasn't found then by all means "ask away"!
Duece
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Post by 33coach on Aug 27, 2012 18:14:48 GMT -6
I agree with 99%.
To answer your question in the op.
I think part of this shift is generational (my generation is always looking for the problems to be 'pre solved'..im one of the few that dont...thats why i became a coach and a computer scientist in the first place!)
The other part is the evolution of the sport..
Unfortunately were coming to a point in football where the only difference is verbage. Everyone will run the same offense and defense...this will become basketball on grass. No new ideas. 7 on 7 every down.
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Post by tothehouse on Aug 27, 2012 18:21:29 GMT -6
reelsportreplay.proboards.com/ Come on over to my board. We'll talk football and general BS about stuff. Love Huey's format, but if you want to spout about why you think Notre Dame's uniforms suck...you can do that on my board. Happy posting! PS - The board is mainly made up of California coaches, but anyone can come on board.
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Post by brophy on Aug 27, 2012 19:21:40 GMT -6
just throwing this out there.... but how much (probably not much) of the really germane / silly questions could be discouraged/answered with the whiteboard function? I'm not suggesting it as 'the answer', but I think guys early on learned (and had to be prepared to think on their toes) when stuff when you entered the whiteboard
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Post by 42falcon on Aug 27, 2012 19:24:43 GMT -6
I am going to put my 2cents in as a non paying non USA resident I hope it counts  Sure there are postings that make me go  but at the same time I think the reason for this is: 1) people themselves are learning to use this medium (online forums) as an educational tool VS a place to argue facelessly with someone about nothing 2) there are I am guessing a whole heap of new coaches in here combined with a bunch of middle of the roaders like myself and then a bunch of super guru's -see outside of the stars under ones name and the off chance you might know who someone here is everyones point / post is on a level playing field and the validity is in the message 3) When you get new coaches in they want answers, lack confidence in their own knowledge and often might be just trying to ask a dumb question (hell I look back on my posts and I see how much better I have gotten at asking questions, I have posted before and got "0" responses and wondered WTF. Then weeks after I look and realize "oh yeah that was dumb") It's part of learning. The WORST thing we can do is rip someone a new one for a bad post, why would that guy come back here? So I guess I am trying to say be patient with new coaches. Lastly the "search" tool sucks the big one on this forum (no offence to the Mods of the board) but there is nothing anyone can do it is a software thing not a user thing. I think that is why we get so many postings that can be answered by the search tool. To back up my last statment I have searched dozens of times and if the search parameter (time) is to long your are screwed as it will time out on you. My 2 cents. |
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Post by bluedevil4 on Aug 27, 2012 19:27:52 GMT -6
An alternate for the search function is to google "Coach Huey (insert question/topic here)." Usually gets what you want.
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 27, 2012 19:43:47 GMT -6
Some other coaches and I have been collaborating on the status of this board for some time now, and I guess I'll be the guinea pig and go out on a limb and state our concerns. The problem is with the posts such as "What defense works best vs. the spread?" or "Help, I have no running back's what offense do I run?" etc. There seems to be very little creative thought coming from the coaches asking these questions. Now, I'm not belittling those that ask these questions, but it is disturbing to see the amount of coaches on here who are not using critical thinking. This is what we as coaches MUST be is critical thinkers, if not, why are we doing what we are doing? There is no spoonfed answer to many of these questions, as define what is "best", or what is "no running backs". I do agree, questions such as these spark conversation, but each week there is a new thread on a topic that has been covered a thousand times in the past. Use the search funtion folks, that's what it's for! Again, I'm not preaching, I'm just stating facts about what I've seen on this board. When I first joined, there was some dang good discussion on here, and that discussion has diminished through the years and it is sad to watch. Is it generational? I don't know, I posed this same question to brophy a week ago, and he couldn't answer either. I have no explanation, and maybe Coach Huey could shed some light here as to a solution to our problem. I'm not sure there is one, except that those coaches that see these questions simply NOT ANSWER. Please, use the search function when you have a question, many topics have been discussed at length on here and are very valuable in terms of the information they possess. Realize that there is no "best" anything, if there was, EVERYBODY would be running/doing it. Lastly, if you are a gamer coming on here wondering what the best offense/defense is to play on Madden, forget it, that's all gamer sh!t and has nothing to do with happens on here. Ok, I'm going to climb off my soapbox and climb back into that hole I crawled out of. Duece Coach I think you need to consider a few things 1) consider the sources. When I see questions that I feel aren't really "critical thinking" questions...I immediately look to the post count. Often they are relatively new members. 2) we both know the search function is a weakness. TO THAT END, for those who want to search, just type in your key words and coachhuey on google. Seems to work well. 3) most of the "vets" on the board..we have a pretty set body of knowledge. If you are like me, when you read some questions/comments here, you not only know what you are going to say, BUT you also know what OTHERS are going to chime in with. Old salty dogs sharing the same war stories....not much different than the coach's office. Probably leads to a little bit of the staleness. |
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Post by 42falcon on Aug 27, 2012 19:45:57 GMT -6
An alternate for the search function is to google "Coach Huey (insert question/topic here)." Usually gets what you want. Perfect that needs to be a must read for anyone new to the board so that it saves them the frustration / hassle of searching then posting. |
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Post by jlenwood on Aug 27, 2012 19:52:35 GMT -6
You know....there are a lot of dumb "what offense should I run" questions on here, but so what. I looked back at some of my first posts and it truly is embarrassing.
The thing is duece, I look at it like this, this site is a reference tool that a lot of coaches use. And as they get experience over the years, they begin to contribute to the conversation and add some meaningful insights in answer to others questions. So if we "simply NOT ANSWER" like you suggest, a potential good source of information is lost because the poster is going to say F*** it and go somewhere else.
I understand where you are coming from, but respectfully partially disagree with your assessment of the current state of this site. I have said it before, when I see a post by some of the guys on here, regardless of if it is something I am interested in I read it (cqmiller, lochness, fantom to name a few). I think that the community on here risks putting off some coaches who may have a lot to offer, just not now.
PS: I have to agree that the best way to search this site is google.
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Post by brophy on Aug 27, 2012 19:58:42 GMT -6
by no means do I think any of us want to discourage posting (and I'm certain that isn't deuce's point), but I think what deuce is getting at is that some of the questions come off as lazy like the person hasn't filtered their thoughts before hitting "post" (did you really stop and think that through before you posted that?). The one thing that baffles me, personally, is some of the basic questions that are coming from guys who hold a COORDINATOR title.....I'm floored at how guys get these gigs without having been through some kind of crucible where they would've galvanized the what-fors BEFORE getting the gig.
There is also the issue that we're all travelling at different speeds and are at different levels. Not good or bad, its just the way it is. Some of the best stuff happens when the guys with high post counts just stop posting/responding. Let other coaches have a run, give the board a different flavor. Its okay to not respond to every thread. If there is one thing this board will hold as gospel, is that no one coach is greater than the rest and that one person's opinion shouldn't be seen as the Truth outside of the merits it's logic is based on.
Folks, keep posting, keep digging deeper - lets let this thing grow
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Post by fantom on Aug 27, 2012 20:03:10 GMT -6
Some other coaches and I have been collaborating on the status of this board for some time now, and I guess I'll be the guinea pig and go out on a limb and state our concerns. The problem is with the posts such as "What defense works best vs. the spread?" or "Help, I have no running back's what offense do I run?" etc. There seems to be very little creative thought coming from the coaches asking these questions. Now, I'm not belittling those that ask these questions, but it is disturbing to see the amount of coaches on here who are not using critical thinking. This is what we as coaches MUST be is critical thinkers, if not, why are we doing what we are doing? There is no spoonfed answer to many of these questions, as define what is "best", or what is "no running backs". I do agree, questions such as these spark conversation, but each week there is a new thread on a topic that has been covered a thousand times in the past. Use the search funtion folks, that's what it's for! Again, I'm not preaching, I'm just stating facts about what I've seen on this board. When I first joined, there was some dang good discussion on here, and that discussion has diminished through the years and it is sad to watch. Is it generational? I don't know, I posed this same question to brophy a week ago, and he couldn't answer either. I have no explanation, and maybe Coach Huey could shed some light here as to a solution to our problem. I'm not sure there is one, except that those coaches that see these questions simply NOT ANSWER. Please, use the search function when you have a question, many topics have been discussed at length on here and are very valuable in terms of the information they possess. Realize that there is no "best" anything, if there was, EVERYBODY would be running/doing it. Lastly, if you are a gamer coming on here wondering what the best offense/defense is to play on Madden, forget it, that's all gamer sh!t and has nothing to do with happens on here. Ok, I'm going to climb off my soapbox and climb back into that hole I crawled out of. Duece P.S. if you want a real rant you can go here: the12thmanblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/douche-bags.htmlWe're here to help coaches. Stuff that's elementary to veteran coaches are real questions to new guys. Be patient. I didn't know my buttocks from my elbow when I started. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 20:11:19 GMT -6
An alternate for the search function is to google "Coach Huey (insert question/topic here)." Usually gets what you want. I thought everybody knew this...that may alleviate some of the issue right there! Look, brophy's last post is EXACTLY what I was talking about. Laziness gives me a case of the red azz, and knowing what I went through to find my answers only to have some young buck wanting the answer handed to him in his lap leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth (where's the Jack Daniels?). Anyhow, yes, to not answer the questions on here by the newbies would be a travesty, however like Brophy said, for the rookies, do a little homework first before cookie-cutting your thread and hitting "Post". Duece |
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Post by tog on Aug 27, 2012 20:28:32 GMT -6
.this will become basketball on grass. 7 on 7 every down. I hope not and disagree |
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Post by tog on Aug 27, 2012 20:29:39 GMT -6
An alternate for the search function is to google "Coach Huey (insert question/topic here)." Usually gets what you want. how I do it |
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Post by coachseth on Aug 27, 2012 20:32:52 GMT -6
My biggest concern is finding things.
I've used the search function several times and often times I get directed to a thread that has not relevance to the topic. I'd hate to make a new topic and get told "dude this has been done a million other times".
Outside of that, I think this is a smart group of people that have come together.
PS: Also, we all know if you don't have any running backs you run an Air Raid Offense LOL.
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Post by coachdubyah on Aug 27, 2012 20:34:15 GMT -6
Kids ask dumb questions all the time. I've been guilty of this but, as I got older and read threads from the likes of lochness(always fun), hemlock, and even Huey himself I found that I developed my thought/philosophies from them. I just get tired of the Oregon/Auburn/Tulsa/ OK State threads personally. Just saying.
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Post by bluedevil4 on Aug 27, 2012 21:00:14 GMT -6
My biggest concern is finding things. I've used the search function several times and often times I get directed to a thread that has not relevance to the topic. I'd hate to make a new topic and get told "dude this has been done a million other times". Outside of that, I think this is a smart group of people that have come together. PS: Also, we all know if you don't have any running backs you run an Air Raid Offense LOL. This is where you need the personal drive to research. Remember that horrible thing they had us do in college? You have to do it here, just like any other subject (except doing it for school sucks lol). You have to research and educate yourself. When you google, you don't always get what you want on the first link. Click each link, see what each one has to say until you find what you're looking for. At the same time, you may stumble upon a thread that where you learn a lot. |
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Post by lochness on Aug 27, 2012 21:04:37 GMT -6
First and foremost, this is a great football board and I'm thankful that it is here for us to have a positive interactive experience on. Make no mistake regarding my feelings on that one.
That said...
I think a lot of coaches don't really understand their jobs, and that's a big part of the frustration.
The "what offense/defense should I run" type questions usually come from coaches who actually believe that a major part of the job is to look at your personnel every year, identify and develop an offense and defense around that, rather than having an understanding of the "big picture" and realizing that creating a flexible system and then developing athletes over the course of their careers is REALLY what your job is.
My biggest issue with this board (and football coaching sites in general) is that I honestly believe they have created an entirely different breed of coach, and not always for the better. These boards are a double edged sword. Obviously, it's cool to talk about football and banter back and forth on related topics to pick up some nuggets or ideas. But, many coaches have become reliant on these sites as their primary source of knowledge. Guys can now fire off a question into cyberspace and get answers to your issues (even though the responder may have NO IDEA what your real situation is, etc). 10 years ago, you couldn't really do that! You needed to watch film, review hours worth of clinic notes, go to spring practices, etc. and troubleshoot your own problems. I can't even begin to tell you how valuable that experience was for me as a very new coach. We'd spend hours and hours to try and come up with a technique or a scheme or a drill to correct a certain issue. The process was painful, but it taught you SO much about coaching and about your own philosophy and systems just by going through the process. Now, people frigging buy systems or find them online (nothing makes me want to vomit more than when somebody posts a topic with a title like "Hey all you Coach Zero System Guys"), copy what colleges are doing, stamp out cookie-cutter offenses and defenses, and believe they are doing a good job. Unfortunately, we learn so much better by going through the creative process and making mistakes and trouble-shooting issues as they come up.
The other issue I have is (already mentioned), quite frankly, with the gamer / "not a coach yet but researching for my own playbook" / "obviously asking a question because I'm a fan" crowd. I don't need to be lectured to and talked down to by someone who has never put into practice a single thing that they are talking about with actual athletes on a football field, nor do I want to expend energy on someone who isn't going to apply what I'm offering up in any constructive fashion. If you're not a football coach, I'm not interested in your thoughts or opinions on schemes, philosophy, or technique. That may sound arrogant or rude. It's not meant to be. I just don't believe in getting legal advice from someone who's not a lawyer or investment advice from someone who's not a licensed broker. If you're not a coach, and you've never coached football...I don't want to waste my time considering what your thoughts are on offense and defense. I get enough of that from local parents, thank you.
Those are my initial reactions to the original post.
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wvcoach
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Post by wvcoach on Aug 27, 2012 21:06:56 GMT -6
I'm sure I've posted my share of "dumb" questions on this board - I've had a few go without even one response - but as a young coach I'm constantly looking to see if anyone is thinking along the same lines as me. I will say that I have gained a wealth of knowledge simply from reading the responses (to my questions and others) from posters like Loch and OJW. You guys are helping me discover that I do not want an Oregon or Holgorsen identity lol.
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 27, 2012 21:20:53 GMT -6
by no means do I think any of us want to discourage posting (and I'm certain that isn't deuce's point), but I think what deuce is getting at is that some of the questions come off as lazy like the person hasn't filtered their thoughts before hitting "post" (did you really stop and think that through before you posted that?). The one thing that baffles me, personally, is some of the basic questions that are coming from guys who hold a COORDINATOR title.....I'm floored at how guys get these gigs without having been through some kind of crucible where they would've galvanized the what-fors BEFORE getting the gig. While it may come off as lazy, I think the reality is probably closer to the fact that those coaches posing those questions are simply at a stage where they "don't know" that they don't know. An analogy might be when some of those in the educational system read posts coming from those who are NOT professional educators. With regards to the coordinator title, I think that represents two situations: 1) a guy is looking to just bounce ideas off of people, generate some ideas/thoughts...but doesn't want to do it because he was just hired as a coordinator and it might look "weak" 2) the coordinator position and the importance of football varies greatly from place to place. |
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jonnyjon
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Post by jonnyjon on Aug 27, 2012 22:35:59 GMT -6
This thread is probably good for the "health" of the board in general but I think its pretty whiny to complain about an internet message board.
There are 2 solutions. Ignore the threads that you don't like or get the admin to ban the "douche bags." I would imagine that not all of deuce's post were always so great.
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Post by mattyg2787 on Aug 28, 2012 2:26:19 GMT -6
Duece I do understand what your saying.a big problem is guys now don't know how to do research. My wife just started uni online and one of the papers she needs wasn't up with the other ones. A lot of people doing the course went into a panic about it. My wife simply goggled the author and name of the paper. Which solution teaches life lessons?
I know ive personally asked a lot of what must be frustrating questions. And for that I say both sorry and thankyou (I know duece in particular has answered a lot of questions about option for me) I have also learnt how to ask a question to get the right answers.
Isv not working. How do I fix it. - bad question
Isv not working, having trouble with a 5 man slanting everywhere. causing bad reads and making o line struggle with assignments. how do I adjust to this (based on a 53035 alignment from d line) -it gives you a question to answer more then "get reps".
A lot of my posts now ask what resources you can recommend about subject x.
Then I do research, then ask follow up questions (which for me usually sound like can you explain everything I just read)
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Post by coachseth on Aug 28, 2012 3:25:16 GMT -6
My biggest concern is finding things. I've used the search function several times and often times I get directed to a thread that has not relevance to the topic. I'd hate to make a new topic and get told "dude this has been done a million other times". Outside of that, I think this is a smart group of people that have come together. PS: Also, we all know if you don't have any running backs you run an Air Raid Offense LOL. This is where you need the personal drive to research. Remember that horrible thing they had us do in college? You have to do it here, just like any other subject (except doing it for school sucks lol). You have to research and educate yourself. When you google, you don't always get what you want on the first link. Click each link, see what each one has to say until you find what you're looking for. At the same time, you may stumble upon a thread that where you learn a lot. I remember what they had us do in school, I also remember the library having things sorted based off historical relevance. There was a place to find all books related to the Civil War, not just one bookshelf titled HISTORY. It wouldn't kill this place to be more organized, maybe start breaking things down to the point where all Wing T questions go in one subforum, all Spread questions in another. Organization is key when doing research, the easier it is to find something, the less dumb questions we get year after year. |
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Post by M4 on Aug 28, 2012 5:25:47 GMT -6
Another suggestion is to sort the entire section by "topic" and then scroll or skip to the area where your topic will show up, often times you'll get multiple threads about your topic and you can read them all.
On a side note, if your bored one day sort a section by "replys" and read the most talked about threads, there's alot of good stuff in those old threads.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2012 5:42:35 GMT -6
This is where you need the personal drive to research. Remember that horrible thing they had us do in college? You have to do it here, just like any other subject (except doing it for school sucks lol). You have to research and educate yourself. When you google, you don't always get what you want on the first link. Click each link, see what each one has to say until you find what you're looking for. At the same time, you may stumble upon a thread that where you learn a lot. I remember what they had us do in school, I also remember the library having things sorted based off historical relevance. There was a place to find all books related to the Civil War, not just one bookshelf titled HISTORY. It wouldn't kill this place to be more organized, maybe start breaking things down to the point where all Wing T questions go in one subforum, all Spread questions in another. Organization is key when doing research, the easier it is to find something, the less dumb questions we get year after year. I would second that! As far as whining, I'm not whining, I don't do that, what I'm trying to do is make suggestions to make the board better. Whining is what got us to this point in the first place (as most "What offense do I run" questions, to me come off as whining). Look at some of my older posts, I don't think they were the same as what we are seeing now. I asked questions like Mattyg talked about such as "Having trouble with BDSD, ends not coming flat down LOS". Anyhow, the post was not a pot shot at Huey or any other coach, I would just like to see a little more critical in depth discussion is all... Duece |
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 28, 2012 6:04:40 GMT -6
It wouldn't kill this place to be more organized, maybe start breaking things down to the point where all Wing T questions go in one subforum, all Spread questions in another. Organization is key when doing research, the easier it is to find something, the less dumb questions we get year after year. I am not so sure that would improve things. Overly organized and moderated boards seem to be much less active. Just look at the "General" boards (general overall, and general offensive and defensive). Much more active, even though many of the posts there "should" probably be in a sub board. Things are fine. I believe that the older posters (myself included) are probably finding things a little stale, because we have basically been hanging out in the coaches office the last 5 or 6 years chatting here, and we dont have much NEW to add to each other. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 28, 2012 6:25:52 GMT -6
I remember what they had us do in school, I also remember the library having things sorted based off historical relevance. There was a place to find all books related to the Civil War, not just one bookshelf titled HISTORY. It wouldn't kill this place to be more organized, maybe start breaking things down to the point where all Wing T questions go in one subforum, all Spread questions in another. Organization is key when doing research, the easier it is to find something, the less dumb questions we get year after year. I would second that! As far as whining, I'm not whining, I don't do that, what I'm trying to do is make suggestions to make the board better. Whining is what got us to this point in the first place (as most "What offense do I run" questions, to me come off as whining). Look at some of my older posts, I don't think they were the same as what we are seeing now. I asked questions like Mattyg talked about such as "Having trouble with BDSD, ends not coming flat down LOS". Anyhow, the post was not a pot shot at Huey or any other coach, I would just like to see a little more critical in depth discussion is all... Duece But Duece--what you are really asking for is more educated/deeper thinking new members...and I don't think a message board can really provide that unless it because exclusive, which is obviously not an option here. And while I agree, it's not whining, I do think that PART of this feeling from you and the other coaches you mentioned could be some aggravation from a different sore spot. I have noticed that several of our best posters, those with extremely informative, well thought out, coherent posts...have recently run across a bumpy patch on the w/l column, and have either stepped down, moved on, been let go, run out of town etc. Some have had trouble finding a place to coach at the desired level (HC/coordinator ..varsity..whatever). Contrast that with the posts that seem to come in saying "Help, the last two years we have been a power team, and made it to the state semi's going 26 and 2. This year we don't have any "lineman types" so what is the best offense to run?" I can completely see the aggravation boiling over if I had just busted my butt the last three years coaching a bunch of kids from dads who run 5.7 40's @150lbs and got run out of town for not winning. |
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but at the same time I think the reason for this is: 
