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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jan 23, 2024 15:29:17 GMT -6
veerwego mentioned this in the Niumatalolo thread... I didn't want to hijack so, first the quote: I have said on here many times I understand why coaches don't do it (run flexbone) at the college level, b/c college is about recruiting and most kids think they are gonna make it to the league and thus do not want to play in a non-NFL looking offense.
My question is how many high school level coaches are starting to feel the squeeze on this? "This" being players transferring (if allowed in your state), or simply not playing because they (and their parents mostly) think old offenses are ineffective or boring and that the coach is sitting there while the game "passes him by".
I see this/feel this... I don't care too much because I am old, grouchy, set in my ways to an extent and know we have been successful for years doing what we are doing. Plus, I am not doing this much longer (something I have said for about 25 years now).
Still after this past year (our worst in the last 30 years), I found myself seeking out those teams that may do what we do, but in a more spread out, maybe more flashy looking way. I will still keep the old stuff at the core (for us Single Wing), but we may add some flair to get kids to come out.
I don't know that it is even a partial rebranding (we've had 3-4 years where we threw... and completed quite a few passes- and some where we threw almost none), but I think that maybe a cosmetic change might help our awful numbers (we had 22 out last year... in 11 man football).
I see a lot of wing-t teams go to gun wing t, option teams go to zone read... here there was a double wing team that now is spread and runs plays at ludicrous speed (Spaceballs reference... for those that care).
Is this occurring because of perception, adapting to some rule changes, appeasing the inmates in the asylum... or do people really think the new stuff is simply "better" (i.e. more effective, able to gain/score more)?
I am just curious as to who might be facing this and if it has any impact on what you are doing now?
For me- it has an impact... but not that much. That might be different if I were 20 years younger though...
I do this every year- look around at other programs, make a tweak or two and everything to the untrained eye still "looks the same". Our only real "major overhaul" was back in 2005 when we went from Wishbone to Single Wing... and it was really still a lot of the same/similar stuff.
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Post by coachsmith79 on Jan 23, 2024 16:11:37 GMT -6
I dunno, man. I see teams like Camp Central and Byron HS in IL winning state titles and Scott County in KY all doing it by running UC wing-t scheme. Just well-coached disciplined teams, that as an outsider looking-in seem to have a great connection between, players, coaches, admin, and community. I don't really believe one offense or defense is better than another. They just might have a specific niche/environment that it is best suited, but other than that it's just preference, it's like arguing over which deli makes the best sub sandwich to me. Just my two cents.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jan 23, 2024 17:43:40 GMT -6
I appreciate the answer...but that's not really where I intended to go with this question.
Much like the Mark Twain quote “I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead”... I am once again guilty of being wordy... so here is another try:
How many of you are/had been running dinosaur offenses and felt compelled to change or consider change based on not getting the type of players out that you once were able to get out?
College coaches (Coach Niumatalolo in this case), are not the only ones who face a recruiting/retention issue. Maybe it's losing kids to other schools, maybe not getting the athletes you need out because they are playing AAU basketball because it is more fun than blocking on Wedge or Power... whatever the reason. Have you been coerced to "rebrand"?
If you changed- or if you did not- why?
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Post by chi5hi on Jan 23, 2024 19:27:07 GMT -6
We've evolved but not because of failure to get players. Never felt "compelled" to do it.
As for "dinosaur offenses", ask yourself...what did they run?
Well...they ran Power, Sweep, Dive, Wedge, Counter, Isolation, Trap.
We've spread out some, but still run those same plays. It just depends upon what kind of front you want to face, 9 man, 8, 7 man or a 5 man box.
If you want to run Power into a 9 man front, get 2 TE's and a FB in there and you'll see that front. If you don't have TE types, spread out and do it anyway.
Power is just getting one more player to the POA than the defense has defenders. There are lots of formations that can run Power. They're not all dinosaurs and neither do they have to be 32 personnel.
College coaches don't really care if a kid played 4 years of HS ball using his offense, spread or not. They want kids who have been taught to block and tackle.
So now, the way I think about it, is to fill the stadium at our games with kids and fans who want to see a contest. Right now, fans like to see "open" offensive movement and lots of scoring.
If you don't have that same passer/runner/receiver that you had last year, do something else this year while running the same plays. A 20 personnel Gun isn't that much different from a 21 Pro...except for the number of defenders in the front.
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lws55
Sophomore Member
Posts: 241 
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Post by lws55 on Jan 24, 2024 7:00:30 GMT -6
Kids want to win, because winning is fun. So if you are a new coach well versed in the triple option, you would have to come in and win games to get kids to play for you. If you struggle then kids are going to seek opportunities elsewhere.
I am a flexbone triple option guy. I know it works on the high school level, but if I was to take a HC job I would not sell out to the Triple because I would probably have a lot of kids that choose to go elsewhere. Most of us coaches on this board realize that most of the RPO stuff we see is just triple option with throwing the ball instead of pitching the ball. Really any "read" based offense is an option based offense. Does it look more sexy to line up in trips and run a bubble then to line up in flexbone and run the same play? Absolutely! Do the kids know the difference? NOPE! But now the A back is a wide receiver and that is way more sexy then be an A back.
If I had to be in charge of an offense I would do a lot of what you see in this tread. I would run Power, Counter, maybe Trap but I would also have midline, and an inside veer type play. I would have TE sets, H back sets, and TE/H back sets because the extra gaps give defenses fits.
The great thing about option is a kid has to stay disciplined for 48 minutes to beat it, and any teacher on this board will tell you is that is a very hard thing for a 15-17 year old kid to do.
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Post by CS on Jan 24, 2024 7:15:30 GMT -6
If the Admin hire me they know they're getting a flexbone offense. If at some point they feel they no longer want a flexbone guy they can show me the door and hire someone else.
I have seen guys that I know and like move away from wing t, dead t, flex etc. to get "the skill kids" out and it has blown up in their faces. If the kids use the offense as a reason to not play then I really don't want them because they are selfish people
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Post by hlb2 on Jan 24, 2024 7:18:44 GMT -6
I have seen this. I was a flexbone OC in the late 2000's and we had kids jump ship because it wasn't an offense they thought they could get recruited in. Oddly enough of the kids that left only one got any sort of meaningful offer to a DII school. Later, I was on the defensive side of a team that ran split back veer (SBV). That team is a local powerhouse of a program, yet here lately, they have lost some guys because folks are saying the same thing. However their two backs from last year are both playing FBS football, one at NC State and the other at Arkansas. QB is the tough part, that's one where you may lose what most folks think are great QB's, but let's be honest, most option team QB's should probably be a guy that could line up and take snaps as the single back in spread or the tailback in the I formation. I have not heard of this school losing OL or WR's either. I know I lost a couple of WR's on that late 2000's team, because they didn't want to block in order to catch the football (that was my deal with the WR's no block = no throw to you).
Winning solves all of this and the really tough part, is if you're looking at running option at where you are or where you're headed it's usually because you can't block the teams you're playing against. That generally speaks to being less talented, i.e. harder to win there. Could be a vicious cycle.
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Post by bignose on Jan 24, 2024 8:09:40 GMT -6
We won a State Championship in 2010 running the Double Wing. We threw 3 passes in the game.
Fast forward a couple of years.
The talent level dropped off a bit and we had some character issues with the kids we had.
We brought in a new OC to introduce his passing attack with the hope of attracting more skill players.
None of the new kids made any significant contributions, and as CS pointed out, they were selfish wide receiver types.
A couple of losing seasons, we fired the new OC, and we went back to a run oriented offense. The record improved and the HC stepped down. I moved on to help scout with another program.
The new HC introduced a Spread Offense. In the next 7 years they have had one winning season, this in a school that had .750+ winning percentage from when the school opened in 1973 thru 2013.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 24, 2024 9:15:03 GMT -6
I dunno, man. I see teams like Camp Central and Byron HS in IL winning state titles and Scott County in KY all doing it by running UC wing-t scheme. Just well-coached disciplined teams, that as an outsider looking-in seem to have a great connection between, players, coaches, admin, and community. I don't really believe one offense or defense is better than another. They just might have a specific niche/environment that it is best suited, but other than that it's just preference, it's like arguing over which deli makes the best sub sandwich to me. Just my two cents. 5 of the 6 teams in the 1A-3A state championships in Illinois were UC wing-t/flexbone set teams. The 6th- Mt Carmel used to be. |
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 24, 2024 9:24:03 GMT -6
I appreciate the answer...but that's not really where I intended to go with this question.
Much like the Mark Twain quote “I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead”... I am once again guilty of being wordy... so here is another try:
How many of you are/had been running dinosaur offenses and felt compelled to change or consider change based on not getting the type of players out that you once were able to get out?
College coaches (Coach Niumatalolo in this case), are not the only ones who face a recruiting/retention issue. Maybe it's losing kids to other schools, maybe not getting the athletes you need out because they are playing AAU basketball because it is more fun than blocking on Wedge or Power... whatever the reason. Have you been coerced to "rebrand"?
If you changed- or if you did not- why?
I felt the squeeze of it back in 2015. Not from the players, but their parents, the fans and to some degree, the admins. In 11-13 we went 27-6 running the I. Ran for over 8,000yds and 900+ points in 12 & 13 going 21-2 in the process. Had a down year in 14 playing a lot of sophs and went 3-6 (lost 3 games by a combined 4 points and all 6 losses were to playoff teams). Parents frequently went to my new principal and AD and complained about our "dinosaur offense". Week 1 of 2015 we had to go to our "orange" formation package since our FB was suspended. Orange was singleback 2x2 shotgun. Numbers were low and I just didn't have a backup FB ready to play (he was a freshman). There was an audible cheer on our first possession. Our TB ran for 410yds and 6 TDs running trap, dive and wrap. The paper wrote a big article about our "new offense" and how even my old grumpy ass went to the spread. Parents and fans were elated. Next week we went back to the I and there were literally boos. We went 5-5 and had a decent year with a still very young team. We flirted with spread looks throughout 15 and 16 and it was a terrible decision on my part. Any kid that I got out because of the "new offense" was always a dickhead that I didn't really want around anyway. Listening to the pressure no doubt contributed to my demise at that place. I left after 16 and there were a slew of articles about how my successor was going to "open it up" and "let the kids have more fun" and "get the athletes in space". They went 3-6. In 18 they went back to the I and went to the playoffs. They have been bad since. |
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jan 24, 2024 9:54:22 GMT -6
We won a State Championship in 2010 running the Double Wing. We threw 3 passes in the game. Fast forward a couple of years. The talent level dropped off a bit and we had some character issues with the kids we had. Change 2010 to 2015 and change Double to Single and that is EXACTLY where we are right now.
Many here (including myself) have said "kids want to win" or "winning solves problems"... I'm not sure I agree with that as much as I once did.
Over the last 12 years we've won just under 80% of our games, and have been in the semi-finals or better 6 times... we had 21 out last year and will be lucky to have 20 in 2024. (We were solidly in the 40s until 2022 when we dipped to the low 30s... our enrollment hasn't really changed much).
More than "our system" is the fact that many of our kids are lazy/selfish/delusional/entitled.
There are probably 1-2 guys who might come out if we spread out more, but as CS and larrymoe have mentioned, we don't want them if they are that selfish.
Still, bodies would be nice. Our scout D front 7 is often made up of trash cans...
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Post by blb on Jan 24, 2024 11:33:02 GMT -6
I never "Re-branded" because of parental pressure or "not getting the athletes out."
At one point in my HC career I went from Veer to Pro-I for what seemed like good reasons at the time.
After 12 games I went back to the Veer, things improved improved immediately, and I had a lot more fun coaching (again).
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jan 24, 2024 11:56:57 GMT -6
In all honesty I think I posed this question to get the responses I have, which is essentially "don't do anything stupid, like you are thinking about doing".
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Post by blb on Jan 24, 2024 12:48:50 GMT -6
If you take over a program that needs rebuilding (no recent history of winning) or has built-in disadvantages, such as being smallest enrollment school in league, Being different scheme-wise can help. Now of course you still have to do the necessary things like Player Development (Strength Training etc.) and coaching good, sound fundamentals. If, as cs said, after awhile they don't like your offense and want something-somebody else regardless of your results, move on. As Grandma said, "Do the best you can, and if that's not good enough - piss on it." |
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Post by CS on Jan 24, 2024 12:56:19 GMT -6
We won a State Championship in 2010 running the Double Wing. We threw 3 passes in the game. Fast forward a couple of years. The talent level dropped off a bit and we had some character issues with the kids we had. Change 2010 to 2015 and change Double to Single and that is EXACTLY where we are right now.
Many here (including myself) have said "kids want to win" or "winning solves problems"... I'm not sure I agree with that as much as I once did.
Over the last 12 years we've won just under 80% of our games, and have been in the semi-finals or better 6 times... we had 21 out last year and will be lucky to have 20 in 2024. (We were solidly in the 40s until 2022 when we dipped to the low 30s... our enrollment hasn't really changed much).
More than "our system" is the fact that many of our kids are lazy/selfish/delusional/entitled.
There are probably 1-2 guys who might come out if we spread out more, but as CS and larrymoe have mentioned, we don't want them if they are that selfish.
Still, bodies would be nice. Our scout D front 7 is often made up of trash cans...
I have arguments with some of the guys I work with about this pretty regular. I don't want "bodies" to play. If the kids want to come out and work their b@lls off and buy in I want them. If they are going to be a distraction and have no chance to help us get better even on the scout team then they can pi55 off. I didn't start coaching to be a baby sitting service for d!ckheads. If they're d!ckheads who can play then we need to keep them and try to discipline them into not being slaps |
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Post by 60zgo on Jan 24, 2024 13:02:33 GMT -6
Short synopsis as a HC:
Air Raid >
Single Wing out of Desperation (No QBs) >
Air Raid + Q Runs / SW Principles
If you want to run SW and change the presentation and make it more palatable then you go buy Coach Darlington’s Unbalanced Spread Single WingVideos. You can get them from Couch Tube for like $20-$30.
And Yes there are people all over America having success with Dinosaur offenses and Yes Dinosaur principles have saved me again and again. But most kids in most places want to do what they see on TV. Running around throwing and catching a ball is just fun. It’s exciting. Kids have better things to do than play football. So you better find a way to make it fun for everyone involved in your program or they will go do something else.
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Post by blb on Jan 24, 2024 13:14:47 GMT -6
Short synopsis as a HC: Air Raid > Single Wing out of Desperation (No QBs) > Air Raid + Q Runs / SW Principles If you want to run SW and change the presentation and make it more palatable then you go buy Coach Darlington’s Unbalanced Spread Single WingVideos. You can get them from Couch Tube for like $20-$30. And Yes there are people all over America having success with Dinosaur offenses and Yes Dinosaur principles have saved me again and again. But most kids in most places want to do what they see on TV. Running around throwing and catching a ball is just fun. It’s exciting. Kids have better things to do than play football. So you better find a way to make it fun for everyone involved in your program or they will go do something else. your points are well-taken. But there are some (a lot?) of schools who don't have kids that you can win with "Running around throwing and catching" especially if they don't care about playing defense too. |
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Post by raider92 on Jan 24, 2024 13:19:13 GMT -6
I'm a damn good recruiter of the hallways, its one of my best skills. I can think of 3 pretty big time athlete basketball players that everyone in town swore would be incredible football players that I've successfully talked into coming out to play football
All 3 were big {censored} who added nothing to our team despite being great athletes.
In my experience, any kid who can be talked into playing football on the promise that you'll throw him the ball is not going to help you
Conversely, the kids who actually can come out and help the team, big bodied kids who can play/provide depth on the OL and DL, dont give a $hit about playing in a spread offense.
We've had a few skill guys come out and help the team but they were wrestler types who played running back. Never once have we added a kid who was a difference maker at receiver which is, presumably, the only type of kid that would really care.
I do understand the argument when it comes to getting a QB to come out, but any kid who's on the fence about playing is not somebody I'd trust to be my QB anyway
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Post by sweep26 on Jan 24, 2024 13:54:29 GMT -6
In reality, isn't coaching just like any other business...if you are the CEO and your business fails because your strategic plan for success fails...you will become very unpopular...and in all likelihood you will be asked to stepdown.
Winning = success and enjoyment: your business flourishes.
Losing = failure and sadness: your business shrivels up and...
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Post by 60zgo on Jan 24, 2024 13:57:02 GMT -6
Short synopsis as a HC: Air Raid > Single Wing out of Desperation (No QBs) > Air Raid + Q Runs / SW Principles If you want to run SW and change the presentation and make it more palatable then you go buy Coach Darlington’s Unbalanced Spread Single WingVideos. You can get them from Couch Tube for like $20-$30. And Yes there are people all over America having success with Dinosaur offenses and Yes Dinosaur principles have saved me again and again. But most kids in most places want to do what they see on TV. Running around throwing and catching a ball is just fun. It’s exciting. Kids have better things to do than play football. So you better find a way to make it fun for everyone involved in your program or they will go do something else. your points are well-taken. But there are some (a lot?) of schools who don't have kids that you can win with "Running around throwing and catching" especially if they don't care about playing defense too. And I counter with... "That's why they call you coach". If your kids can't block or tackle. Which they can't when they show up to you. You teach them how to rep it over and over and over and over.... Same thing with throwing and catching or any other skill. Again... I didn't choose to coach the Single Wing because I thought it was fun. We chose it because we had nothing in the pipeline at that school. Like nothing. But..... We were still developing kids with the idea that we would go BACK to the Air Raid. We still ran ALL the Air Raid drills and MESH every day. The OP asked about rebrand and said they were SW. I suggested a SW system that allowed for that. |
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Post by blb on Jan 24, 2024 14:06:36 GMT -6
Hand-eye coordination (and CATCHING) is different than blocking-tackling.
If a kid can't catch a thrown object, no amount of "Air Raid drills" is going to change that.
I know from experience.
Otherwise - why couldn't you make OL-types into Pass Catchers?
Coaching doesn't cure everything.
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Post by 60zgo on Jan 24, 2024 15:04:57 GMT -6
Hand-eye coordination (and CATCHING) is different than blocking-tackling. If a kid can't catch a thrown object, no amount of "Air Raid drills" is going to change that. I know from experience. Otherwise - why couldn't you make OL-types into Pass Catchers? Coaching doesn't cure everything. Okay |
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jan 24, 2024 17:40:53 GMT -6
In reality, isn't coaching just like any other business...if you are the CEO and your business fails because your strategic plan for success fails...you will become very unpopular...and in all likelihood you will be asked to stepdown. Winning = success and enjoyment: your business flourishes. Losing = failure and sadness: your business shrivels up and...
Coaching is not like other businesses.
In a business- if you make money for your company and shareholders, you are a success.
What is success in high school coaching?
Winning a championship every year? We are all failures then. (I'll amend that if there are any IMG coaches on here).
Doing the best you have with what you have? Maybe we are all successful then… but parents, fans, boosters… sometimes administrators won’t necessarily see it that way.
Here is what I have learned in 34 years of coaching high school football- You are a success if:
- You win every game (but not by too much to be unsportsmanlike)
- You play every kid in your program
- You run an offense that fans see on Sunday… or at least Saturday. - You run a lot of trick plays/formations (it's fun for the kids...“The Annexation of Puerto Rico!!”)
- You run an offense/defense that will get a hard nosed, tough 5’6 235# lineman recruited as a scholarship player to a Big 10 (or SEC, or Big 12… depending on where you live) school
- You never yell at players but still make them tough physically and mentally like we all were in the “old days”
- Etc…
In 2020, we lost the state title game by a FG, which they made with 10 seconds left in the game. We played a team with 4x our roster size, who by 2022 was (rightfully) playing two classes above us (and has been competitive).
Even though we made more uncharacteristic mistakes in the last 2 minutes on defense, according to some (those yahoos who like to talk and don't know whether a football is filled with air or stuffed) we lost because “we didn’t have a good enough passing game”.
2020 was then a "failure" in the eyes of some... and I disagree with that.
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Post by sweep26 on Jan 24, 2024 21:29:12 GMT -6
In reality, isn't coaching just like any other business...if you are the CEO and your business fails because your strategic plan for success fails...you will become very unpopular...and in all likelihood you will be asked to stepdown. Winning = success and enjoyment: your business flourishes. Losing = failure and sadness: your business shrivels up and...
Coaching is not like other businesses.
In a business- if you make money for your company and shareholders, you are a success.
What is success in high school coaching?
Winning a championship every year? We are all failures then. (I'll amend that if there are any IMG coaches on here).
Doing the best you have with what you have? Maybe we are all successful then… but parents, fans, boosters… sometimes administrators won’t necessarily see it that way.
Here is what I have learned in 34 years of coaching high school football- You are a success if:
- You win every game (but not by too much to be unsportsmanlike)
- You play every kid in your program
- You run an offense that fans see on Sunday… or at least Saturday. - You run a lot of trick plays/formations (it's fun for the kids...“The Annexation of Puerto Rico!!”)
- You run an offense/defense that will get a hard nosed, tough 5’6 235# lineman recruited as a scholarship player to a Big 10 (or SEC, or Big 12… depending on where you live) school
- You never yell at players but still make them tough physically and mentally like we all were in the “old days”
- Etc…
In 2020, we lost the state title game by a FG, which they made with 10 seconds left in the game. We played a team with 4x our roster size, who by 2022 was (rightfully) playing two classes above us (and has been competitive).
Even though we made more uncharacteristic mistakes in the last 2 minutes on defense, according to some (those yahoos who like to talk and don't know whether a football is filled with air or stuffed) we lost because “we didn’t have a good enough passing game”.
2020 was then a "failure" in the eyes of some... and I disagree with that.
WOW!! I feel bad for you...you have been doing this for 34 years so you obviously have had a great deal of success or you would not have stayed in coaching for so many years...and now you feel this way about your community/fans. |
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 24, 2024 21:57:22 GMT -6
Coaching is not like other businesses.
In a business- if you make money for your company and shareholders, you are a success.
What is success in high school coaching?
Winning a championship every year? We are all failures then. (I'll amend that if there are any IMG coaches on here).
Doing the best you have with what you have? Maybe we are all successful then… but parents, fans, boosters… sometimes administrators won’t necessarily see it that way.
Here is what I have learned in 34 years of coaching high school football- You are a success if:
- You win every game (but not by too much to be unsportsmanlike)
- You play every kid in your program
- You run an offense that fans see on Sunday… or at least Saturday. - You run a lot of trick plays/formations (it's fun for the kids...“The Annexation of Puerto Rico!!”)
- You run an offense/defense that will get a hard nosed, tough 5’6 235# lineman recruited as a scholarship player to a Big 10 (or SEC, or Big 12… depending on where you live) school
- You never yell at players but still make them tough physically and mentally like we all were in the “old days”
- Etc…
In 2020, we lost the state title game by a FG, which they made with 10 seconds left in the game. We played a team with 4x our roster size, who by 2022 was (rightfully) playing two classes above us (and has been competitive).
Even though we made more uncharacteristic mistakes in the last 2 minutes on defense, according to some (those yahoos who like to talk and don't know whether a football is filled with air or stuffed) we lost because “we didn’t have a good enough passing game”.
2020 was then a "failure" in the eyes of some... and I disagree with that.
WOW!! I feel bad for you...you have been doing this for 34 years so you obviously have had a great deal of success or you would not have stayed in coaching for so many years...and now you feel this way about your community/fans. Stay in it long enough and you will too. Things are great when you're winning, but they'll turn on you as fast as they can when things go south. Look at Belichick and Saban. |
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Post by sweep26 on Jan 24, 2024 22:49:11 GMT -6
WOW!! I feel bad for you...you have been doing this for 34 years so you obviously have had a great deal of success or you would not have stayed in coaching for so many years...and now you feel this way about your community/fans. Stay in it long enough and you will too. Things are great when you're winning, but they'll turn on you as fast as they can when things go south. Look at Belichick and Saban. I began my career as a high school teacher and head football coach in 1964...it has been a long, and enjoyable career. It has been both my career and my hobby. I love it!! |
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 25, 2024 8:18:59 GMT -6
Stay in it long enough and you will too. Things are great when you're winning, but they'll turn on you as fast as they can when things go south. Look at Belichick and Saban. I began my career as a high school teacher and head football coach in 1964...it has been a long, and enjoyable career. It has been both my career and my hobby. I love it!! And you've never been run out of a place for no reason? I find this extremely hard to believe. What are you now? 80? |
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jan 25, 2024 8:20:01 GMT -6
WOW!! I feel bad for you...you have been doing this for 34 years so you obviously have had a great deal of success or you would not have stayed in coaching for so many years...and now you feel this way about your community/fans.
Don't feel bad for a cynic who is simply being cynical.
Like the character of my username, I have a tendency to rant.
I'm just saying that in coaching, "success" is ambiguous at best. We (coaches) know what is a successful season or program. They (outsiders) do not and have a different definition. That's really all I am saying. I have enjoyed my career perhaps as much as you have; I'm just more of a grouch about it.
We've had many great years, but one of my favorites is when we went 6-4 and were shut out in the first round playoff game. We lost our best player (TB/DB) in the first quarter of the first game (we lost 40-0). We had no business winning a game, let alone making the playoffs. Those kids were undermanned across the board, yet played their hearts out.
3-3 in the district and 6-4 overall won't stand out in a resume/bio... but damn, that was a rewarding season.
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Post by cwaltsmith on Jan 25, 2024 10:17:08 GMT -6
This is 100% a real thing that a ton of coaches deal with. I was at a school that was a perennial avg to below avg team and was wing t... they had a year or 2 that was successful but mostly not. I had kids that I tried to recruit out of the halls tell me... "I am not gonna play on a team that just runs it up the middle every play... that's boring". I agree with other posts... WINNING solves all problems... but if you are a veer guy or a wing t guy trying to turn a program around, you better do it quickly and you will probably have to do it before those fringe kids come out and play for you. High school kids want to be recruited to play and like it or not a ton of them are playing simply to try to get scholarship and think they have to run a "college" or "pro" offense to have a chance to be seen.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 25, 2024 11:17:06 GMT -6
This is 100% a real thing that a ton of coaches deal with. I was at a school that was a perennial avg to below avg team and was wing t... they had a year or 2 that was successful but mostly not. I had kids that I tried to recruit out of the halls tell me... "I am not gonna play on a team that just runs it up the middle every play... that's boring". I agree with other posts... WINNING solves all problems... but if you are a veer guy or a wing t guy trying to turn a program around, you better do it quickly and you will probably have to do it before those fringe kids come out and play for you. High school kids want to be recruited to play and like it or not a ton of them are playing simply to try to get scholarship and think they have to run a "college" or "pro" offense to have a chance to be seen.
An old coaching buddy of mine is a DW guy. He took over a mediocre program two years ago and kicked over to the Gun DW/Single Wing as he knew he'd get push back over the DW. He took the team to the playoffs for the first time in awhile. The program had been based out of the I-formation previously and he told me that kids thanked him for running a more "modern offense." Some might call it rebranding but, IMO, it was a lateral move that solved problems.
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