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Post by tripsclosed on Sept 4, 2023 10:58:14 GMT -6
I heard something on the radio the other day. Apparently, when Colorado hired Deion, they didn’t have the money for his contract. They just planned on the money coming from somewhere, which it obviously did. They sold out season tickets for the first time in 20 years. I don’t know how success will be defined at Colorado under Sanders. But, there is money pouring into the program now. Boosters and sponsors are lining up to be a part of it. The program has national recognition. Given that, I can’t see Sanders crashing and burning. I don’t think his record matters this year but next year, If he can turn in a modestly successful season, like 6-6, and go to a bowl game, Colorado is going to be on the way. They already have terrific facilities. Now, they have a charismatic head coach who will bring in great players. I think he is going to do well. Again…the question is how will success be defined? What’s the standard for Sanders to meet? Kirk Ferentz has been at Iowa since Christ was a corporal and he has a handful of conference championship and only reached double-digit wins in 7 seasons and has never really been a contender for a national championship. If Sanders has a career like Ferentz, will that be good enough to appease his detractors? After what I saw on Saturday, as long as Sanders can get the defense and their offensive line shored up, the sky is pretty much the limit. Obviously the quality of TCU's defense should be taken into account, but for them to have that kind of day, where you have 4 skill players each get over 100 yards receiving each, one dude as a RB gets 3 receiving TDs and one rushing TD, why would the top talent in the country not want to flock to an already charismatic head coach and program he's building? Saban, for how many ever years he has left in the tank, and Kirby Smart, are going to have a heck of a time recruiting against that machine once it really picks up steam and gets going. And honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if Sanders decides to dig in long-term at Colorado instead of bolting when UF, FSU, SoCal, Texas, Oklahoma, OSU, etc come calling, because it would be all the more of an accomplishment to take a program that has been pretty much the worst and dysfunctional program in college football consistently over the last 20 years, and turn them into a perennially elite program |
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Post by 19delta on Sept 4, 2023 11:13:14 GMT -6
But Ferentz has been there for what, almost 25 years? Clearly, his supporters far outnumber his detractors. Heck…that campus is his personal fiefdom. And Ferentz is certainly viewed as a “successful” head coach who has a great deal of respect. I would argue that brown nosing your bosses doesn't mean you have a lot of support. We all know guys who keep their job despite no apparent reason while wildly successful people get pushed out for no reason. I don’t think that is true in big time college football. No amount of brown nosing is going to keep a head coach on the job for 25 years if he isn’t winning. I’m not saying that Ferentz is a bad coach. What I am saying is that it isn’t fair to suggest Sanders is a bust if Colorado isn’t vying for a national championship within a couple years when there are guys out there like Ferentz who has been pretty good but not great for a really long time. |
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 4, 2023 11:15:18 GMT -6
I would argue that brown nosing your bosses doesn't mean you have a lot of support. We all know guys who keep their job despite no apparent reason while wildly successful people get pushed out for no reason. I don’t think that is true in big time college football. No amount of brown nosing is going to keep a head coach on the job for 25 years if he isn’t winning. I’m not saying that Ferentz is a bad coach. What I am saying is that it isn’t fair to suggest Sanders is a bust if Colorado isn’t vying for a national championship within a couple years when there are guys out there like Ferentz who has been pretty good but not great for a really long time. But he's at Iowa. He's been arguably the most successful coach they've ever had. Like Fitzgerald was at NW. And Iowa rarely fores coaches of any sport. They've had 3 wrestling coaches in going on 50 years. They've had 4 men's bball coaches in 40 years. |
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Post by 19delta on Sept 4, 2023 11:19:23 GMT -6
And honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if Sanders decides to dig in long-term at Colorado instead of bolting when UF, FSU, SoCal, Texas, Oklahoma, OSU, etc come calling, because it would be all the more of an accomplishment to take a program that has been pretty much the worst and dysfunctional program in college football consistently over the last 20 years, and turn them into a perennially elite program Agreed. One thing about Sanders, and I guess he’s not different than other high level coaches in this regard, is that he always seems to be looking for greener grass. If things are not progressing as quickly as he likes I can definitely see him pull up stakes and looking for the next opportunity. |
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Post by 19delta on Sept 4, 2023 11:32:17 GMT -6
I don’t think that is true in big time college football. No amount of brown nosing is going to keep a head coach on the job for 25 years if he isn’t winning. I’m not saying that Ferentz is a bad coach. What I am saying is that it isn’t fair to suggest Sanders is a bust if Colorado isn’t vying for a national championship within a couple years when there are guys out there like Ferentz who has been pretty good but not great for a really long time. But he's at Iowa. He's been arguably the most successful coach they've ever had. Like Fitzgerald was at NW. And Iowa rarely fores coaches of any sport. They've had 3 wrestling coaches in going on 50 years. They've had 4 men's bball coaches in 40 years. Well, Sanders is at Colorado, which hasn’t been relevant in football in more than 20 years. So, the bar for future success for Sanders at Colorado should be considerably lower than the past track record for Ferentz at Iowa. |
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Post by tripsclosed on Sept 4, 2023 12:33:54 GMT -6
And honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if Sanders decides to dig in long-term at Colorado instead of bolting when UF, FSU, SoCal, Texas, Oklahoma, OSU, etc come calling, because it would be all the more of an accomplishment to take a program that has been pretty much the worst and dysfunctional program in college football consistently over the last 20 years, and turn them into a perennially elite program Agreed. One thing about Sanders, and I guess he’s not different than other high level coaches in this regard, is that he always seems to be looking for greener grass. If things are not progressing as quickly as he likes I can definitely see him pull up stakes and looking for the next opportunity. Yes I do agree with that, i.e. if it gets stuck in 3rd gear. |
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Post by breakerdog on Sept 5, 2023 9:53:35 GMT -6
I, for one, was thinking it was going to be a trainwreck. In fact you could say that I was hoping it would be a trainwreck. It's only one game, and all possibilities are still out there, but they looked miles better than I would have ever given them credit for. It's a long season, but right now, Colorado is the hottest team in the sport.
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Post by bulldogsdc on Sept 5, 2023 10:00:24 GMT -6
Why did you hope it was a trainwreck?
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Post by irishdog on Sept 5, 2023 13:53:01 GMT -6
My last coaching stop was at a private school in Texas as an assistant. Our HC was a former D1 OC who had previous HS HC experience. He was fired at the end of my last year. The school was looking to make a splash hire and hired a former NFL All-Pro kicker. In his first year the new guy went 8-3 and made the playoffs. The school community was ecstatic. Greatest coach ever! So far this season the team is Ofer.
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Post by tog on Sept 5, 2023 17:24:42 GMT -6
Why did you hope it was a trainwreck? go read up on how the kids at prime prep were totally screwed |
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CoachK
Sophomore Member
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Post by CoachK on Sept 5, 2023 17:58:56 GMT -6
My last coaching stop was at a private school in Texas as an assistant. Our HC was a former D1 OC who had previous HS HC experience. He was fired at the end of my last year. The school was looking to make a splash hire and hired a former NFL All-Pro kicker. In his first year the new guy went 8-3 and made the playoffs. The school community was ecstatic. Greatest coach ever! So far this season the team is Ofer. This didn't happen to be in my hometown of Austin, TX, did it? |
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 16, 2023 9:58:48 GMT -6
Whether you're a "Prime" fan or not, i think we can all agree Jay Norvell is a {censored} idiot.
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Post by fantom on Sept 16, 2023 10:16:35 GMT -6
Whether you're a "Prime" fan or not, i think we can all agree Jay Norvell is a {censored} idiot. Isn't it unbelievable how coaches keep taking the bait? |
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 16, 2023 10:27:05 GMT -6
Whether you're a "Prime" fan or not, i think we can all agree Jay Norvell is a {censored} idiot. Isn't it unbelievable how coaches keep taking the bait? No one accused coaches as a group of being the smartest humans alive. |
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Post by tripsclosed on Sept 16, 2023 10:34:52 GMT -6
Isn't it unbelievable how coaches keep taking the bait? No one accused coaches as a group of being the smartest humans alive. I mean, to some extent, but coaches and players don't get enough credit for how cerebral football can be... |
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 16, 2023 10:56:45 GMT -6
No one accused coaches as a group of being the smartest humans alive. I mean, to some extent, but coaches and players don't get enough credit for how cerebral football can be... It's really not. We just convince ourselves it is to justify our passion and paychecks. Oh, and to make ourselves feel warm and fuzzy. You could write encyclopedias about guys who were highly successful who couldn't power a light bulb with their intellect. |
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Post by raider92 on Sept 16, 2023 10:58:48 GMT -6
2 weeks into his tenure and we are asking if a Ferentz-like tenure would be a success for Deion?
If he coaches for 25+ years and ends up 3rd all time in big ten wins then yeah, I'd say he's been successful. The guys couldn't be more polar opposite. Deions recruiting acumen probably means he has national title potential in the right job but does he coach up ball as well as Ferentz? Not a chance. Almost no one does.
What remains to be seen is how all that talk and bravado holds up after you've gotten mauled at the LOS a few weeks in a row as may happen when they run into USC, Oregon, Utah, etc.
It's been interesting. I think hes incredibly uniquely suited to this new era of college football. An era that guys like Ferentz, and a lot of guys on this board, may not like as much unfortunately.
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Post by silkyice on Sept 16, 2023 11:08:37 GMT -6
I mean, to some extent, but coaches and players don't get enough credit for how cerebral football can be... It's really not. We just convince ourselves it is to justify our passion and paychecks. Oh, and to make ourselves feel warm and fuzzy. You could write encyclopedias about guys who were highly successful who couldn't power a light bulb with their intellect. But, I bet they surrounded themselves with some guys who were smart. Or at least one or two. College head coach skill set is different than high school head coach or NFL head coach. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 16, 2023 16:55:25 GMT -6
2 weeks into his tenure and we are asking if a Ferentz-like tenure would be a success for Deion? If he coaches for 25+ years and ends up 3rd all time in big ten wins then yeah, I'd say he's been successful. The guys couldn't be more polar opposite. Deions recruiting acumen probably means he has national title potential in the right job but does he coach up ball as well as Ferentz? Not a chance. Almost no one does. What remains to be seen is how all that talk and bravado holds up after you've gotten mauled at the LOS a few weeks in a row as may happen when they run into USC, Oregon, Utah, etc. It's been interesting. I think hes incredibly uniquely suited to this new era of college football. An era that guys like Ferentz, and a lot of guys on this board, may not like as much unfortunately. I don't think the question was that far out of left field, as it highlights several of the key elements at play. Namely the "Prime Persona" and the braggadocious, unquiet confidence which Coach Sanders has been known for, as well as his previous personal success. When that is the way one presents themselves in public, is being solidly consistent "success". Is .620 success compared to .803 (Saban) .853 (Meyer) .828 (Tressel at OSU) .836 (Osborne) .806 (Swinney) .798 (Bob Stoops) .780 (Bear Bryant) .775 (Schembechler), or even Jimbo Fisher with an above a .750 winning percentage (at the moment) when you outwardly project the persona that Deion does? I think that is a fair question, even just 2 weeks in. |
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 16, 2023 21:12:02 GMT -6
I realized while watching this game, Sanders has recreated the U.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 16, 2023 21:22:26 GMT -6
I realized while watching this game, Sanders has recreated the U. In what way? |
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 16, 2023 21:31:01 GMT -6
I realized while watching this game, Sanders has recreated the U. In what way? Hype, stars on the sidelines, swag, etc. The other stuff remains to be seen- championships, scandals, etc. |
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Post by 19delta on Sept 17, 2023 3:33:24 GMT -6
What most stood out to me from last night's game is that CSU lost over 180 yards on penalties and looked completely unhinged at times.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 17, 2023 5:52:47 GMT -6
Hype, stars on the sidelines, swag, etc. The other stuff remains to be seen- championships, scandals, etc. It has been a minute, but I don't recall celebrities not associated with Miami, Fla being part of the "U" 's ambience. I don't really see a connection at all between the two, other than the U was noted for its outward displays of confidence to the point of becoming confrontational. The U attitude was more of an internal thing. It was propagated forward by the player alum. I think a more apt comparison might be the Pete Carroll era USC program, which seemed to have many celebrities with little/nothing to do with the program jumping on the Trojan hype train. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 17, 2023 8:20:50 GMT -6
What most stood out to me from last night's game is that CSU lost over 180 yards on penalties and looked completely unhinged at times. What stood out to me (could not watch the game itself, do not have cable) was the nearly partisan way that ESPN presented much of the pregame stuff. With the Countdown to Gameday crew making sure to sport their sunglasses and clearly infer that they fell on the CU side of things regarding that silly spat, to their newest major property Pat Mcafee clearly not being a neutral party in the silly spat etc. I get it, if I were running ESPN, I would start hitching my wagon to CU and Prime right now as a ratings leader. As Television/Broadcasting continues to ascend to the most important power broker in college football (and thus college athletics), I do have some concerns that sports broadcasts and coverage might go the way of partisan "news"/entertainment. |
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Post by tripsclosed on Sept 17, 2023 8:37:05 GMT -6
What most stood out to me from last night's game is that CSU lost over 180 yards on penalties and looked completely unhinged at times. Then, you had that hit on Travis Hunter that has him out at least a few weeks. Hunter is an absolutely amazing player, both in terms of talent, and having the stamina to be able to play both ways in P5 football, and has a bright future ahead of him, if this affects his career in any way, f*** the POS who hit him like that. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 17, 2023 8:50:28 GMT -6
What most stood out to me from last night's game is that CSU lost over 180 yards on penalties and looked completely unhinged at times. Then, you had that hit on Travis Hunter that has him out at least a few weeks. Hunter is an absolutely amazing player, both in terms of talent, and having the stamina to be able to play both ways in P5 football, and has a bright future ahead of him, if this affects his career in any way, f*** the POS who hit him like that. Hit him in a manner that less than a decade ago would be considered tough hard nosed football?? He didn't take a head shot. He really just braced himself and gave Hunter an unanticipated shoulder block. It was clearly illegal due to the current rules. There was a penalty assessed. But since it happened to a member of what seems to be the 2023 "chosen team" so much more is going to be made of it. |
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Post by silkyice on Sept 17, 2023 10:00:45 GMT -6
Then, you had that hit on Travis Hunter that has him out at least a few weeks. Hunter is an absolutely amazing player, both in terms of talent, and having the stamina to be able to play both ways in P5 football, and has a bright future ahead of him, if this affects his career in any way, f*** the POS who hit him like that. Hit him in a manner that less than a decade ago would be considered tough hard nosed football?? He didn't take a head shot. He really just braced himself and gave Hunter an unanticipated shoulder block. It was clearly illegal due to the current rules. There was a penalty assessed. But since it happened to a member of what seems to be the 2023 "chosen team" so much more is going to be made of it. The play was over. The ball had hit the ground. The safety made no attempt on the ball. He just late hit the kid in an unprotected part of his body and sent him to the hospital. And the kid just happened to be possibly the best player in the country and a two way player. That was a cheap ass INTENTIONAL play in any decade. Heck, that would have been cheap in MMA. And I thought that live and on replay. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 17, 2023 10:13:25 GMT -6
Hit him in a manner that less than a decade ago would be considered tough hard nosed football?? He didn't take a head shot. He really just braced himself and gave Hunter an unanticipated shoulder block. It was clearly illegal due to the current rules. There was a penalty assessed. But since it happened to a member of what seems to be the 2023 "chosen team" so much more is going to be made of it. The play was over. The ball had hit the ground. The safety made no attempt on the ball. He just late hit the kid in an unprotected part of his body and sent him to the hospital. And the kid just happened to be possibly the best player in the country and a two way player. That was a cheap ass INTENTIONAL play in any decade. Heck, that would have been cheap in MMA. And I thought that live and on replay. It was clearly an illegal hit, as I mentioned. It was an attempt to intimidate. The Safety took one extra step after the ball hit the ground and braced himself lowering his shoulder. The results (Hunter being injured) and the setting are influencing the opinion as to the egregiousness of the foul. It was no where near many other hits in the history of football. In fact this hit seems worse. But that was a game nobody but OSU and Rutgers fans saw... The hit in question seems far far less cheap/dirty than many of these... |
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Post by raider92 on Sept 17, 2023 10:40:04 GMT -6
I suspect that wont be the last hit of that nature an opponent dishes out on a Colorado player.
Deions brought a lot of attention to the program and it's inevitably going to rub some folks the wrong way.
I have a feeling if a Colorado player had hit a CSU player like that Twitter would be calling it "swagger" and "intimidating" and a fair result of "making things personal".
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