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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 27, 2022 19:10:16 GMT -6
I think a thread with this title was deleted because some coaches showed their behinds...but with Ed Reed being named HC of Bethune Cookman, that makes 3 "superstar" players (2 HOF -Sanders and Reed, and 1 HOF semifinalist (Eddie George) ) ascend to HC positions in Div 1 football through a seemingly "non traditional" path. Granted Reed has some experience-a year as an asst defensive backs coach with the Bills, and then apparently an "advisory role" as Chief of Staff with Miami Fla. But it still seems as though this may be a growing trend in the profession.
I know "fame" already has significantly influences at the HS level (often in a negative way). Will this only make it worse?
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Post by larrymoe on Dec 27, 2022 19:14:21 GMT -6
Deion's "success" is only going to make this trend more prevalent. It's going to take a whole bunch of Jeff Saturday's to get people to stop trying it.
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Post by tripsclosed on Dec 27, 2022 19:57:16 GMT -6
I think a thread with this title was deleted because some coaches showed their behinds...but with Ed Reed being named HC of Bethune Cookman, that makes 3 "superstar" players (2 HOF -Sanders and Reed, and 1 HOF semifinalist (Eddie George) ) ascend to HC positions in Div 1 football through a seemingly "non traditional" path. Granted Reed has some experience-a year as an asst defensive backs coach with the Bills, and then apparently an "advisory role" as Chief of Staff with Miami Fla. But it still seems as though this may be a growing trend in the profession. I know "fame" already has significantly influences at the HS level (often in a negative way). Will this only make it worse? I think it depends on how it goes with these guys. If they have success, might become a trend. If not, might be a short-lived fad. I think it also depends on what admin is looking for. Even if Deion does not have long-term success (I'm really hoping he does, though), the tremendous press and revitalization to a program in trouble could be sufficient for Colorado admin for right now |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 27, 2022 20:02:26 GMT -6
Deion's "success" is only going to make this trend more prevalent. It's going to take a whole bunch of Jeff Saturday's to get people to stop trying it. Not sure why you put success in quotation marks. Regardless of your feelings, Deion Sander's coaching results at Jackson state are objectively a great success. Back to Back double digit wins in a season for a program that only went above .600 like 6 times in the previous 20 years And from a professional point of view, Saturday's job is completely different than that of Sanders at either JSU or Colorado, Reed at Bethune-Cookman or George at Tennessee State. But I think the underlying point is still the same, Sander's well publicized success will resonate at the college level, and likely influence the HS level to an even greater degree, especially in situations where teams are not limited to neighborhood enrollment policies. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 27, 2022 20:09:17 GMT -6
I think a thread with this title was deleted because some coaches showed their behinds...but with Ed Reed being named HC of Bethune Cookman, that makes 3 "superstar" players (2 HOF -Sanders and Reed, and 1 HOF semifinalist (Eddie George) ) ascend to HC positions in Div 1 football through a seemingly "non traditional" path. Granted Reed has some experience-a year as an asst defensive backs coach with the Bills, and then apparently an "advisory role" as Chief of Staff with Miami Fla. But it still seems as though this may be a growing trend in the profession. I know "fame" already has significantly influences at the HS level (often in a negative way). Will this only make it worse? I think it depends on how it goes with these guys. If they have success, might become a trend. If not, might be a short-lived fad. I think it also depends on what admin is looking for. Even if Deion does not have long-term success (I'm really hoping he does, though), the tremendous press and revitalization to a program in trouble could be sufficient for Colorado admin for right now Not to mention that all Sanders needs to do at CU is win 2 games to double the wins of 2022. Have a winning season, and Sander's will have duplicated a feat only seen once in the last 18 years. That is a decent amount of rope. That said, I probably agree more with larrymoe's sentiments that the horses are out of the barn on this one...at least for a little while. The only question is what level of "star power" is going to be required. Does Trent Dilfer count in this too? He didn't really follow the traditional path did he? |
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Post by fantom on Dec 27, 2022 20:55:00 GMT -6
I think a thread with this title was deleted because some coaches showed their behinds...but with Ed Reed being named HC of Bethune Cookman, that makes 3 "superstar" players (2 HOF -Sanders and Reed, and 1 HOF semifinalist (Eddie George) ) ascend to HC positions in Div 1 football through a seemingly "non traditional" path. Granted Reed has some experience-a year as an asst defensive backs coach with the Bills, and then apparently an "advisory role" as Chief of Staff with Miami Fla. But it still seems as though this may be a growing trend in the profession. I know "fame" already has significantly influences at the HS level (often in a negative way). Will this only make it worse? A lot of this may depend on how Prime does at Colorado. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 27, 2022 21:07:59 GMT -6
I think a thread with this title was deleted because some coaches showed their behinds...but with Ed Reed being named HC of Bethune Cookman, that makes 3 "superstar" players (2 HOF -Sanders and Reed, and 1 HOF semifinalist (Eddie George) ) ascend to HC positions in Div 1 football through a seemingly "non traditional" path. Granted Reed has some experience-a year as an asst defensive backs coach with the Bills, and then apparently an "advisory role" as Chief of Staff with Miami Fla. But it still seems as though this may be a growing trend in the profession. I know "fame" already has significantly influences at the HS level (often in a negative way). Will this only make it worse? A lot of this may depend on how Prime does at Colorado. I can understand that sentiment, but keep in mind if he wins 2 games, he doubled their wins from last year. Winning season will be the 3rd in 19 years (and one of those was the covid shortened year). Point being, how much worse could he do compared to guys who went through the "traditional path" Lets face it, Prime's skill set of just his public persona, even if he could not coach a lick of football, is still beneficial to collegiate coaching at the moment. And the vast majority of people (myself included) have little to no insight on anything other than his public persona. He very well may be meticulous, detail oriented, a great motivator, etc. I think the "danger" for lack of a better term, is that decision makers will fail to recognize that a HS coach, a college coach, and a pro coach are all significantly different tasks. Star Power could definitely make a difference at one of those levels more than the other two. But will decision makers and "stake holders" (you guys in education know that is the buzz word) recognize that difference. |
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Post by 19delta on Dec 28, 2022 9:35:14 GMT -6
I don’t think that there are that many HOFers looking to get into coaching. Most HOFers who do work after retiring from football go to work in broadcasting or take a public relations job with their former team or with the NFL. There’s just not that many guys like Sanders or Reed who need to go into coaching.
Dilfer was not a superstar but neither was Jim Harbaugh, who had a comparable NFL career. I can see Dilfer turning out like Harbaugh. If Dilfer isn’t successful, he won’t be around long. Harbaugh has coached for a long time because he’s a good coach, not because he played in the NFL.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2022 16:45:35 GMT -6
I think Deion is an anomoly, but this will be a trend as others try to copy what he did.
What Deion has shown so far is that he’s a charismatic presence who can promote and sell himself to recruits in a big time way. That is the major part of a college coach’s job, but there is more to it than that.
Time will tell if he can win at Colorado, or if he stays at Colorado for long, or if he can even recruit there in a way that competes with Saban or Smart. He’s just a very unique case.
None of the other guys hired under similar circumstances has accomplished anything like this yet, nor do I think it’s fair to expect them to… but administrators and boosters will be chasing this kind of a splash for a long time to come.
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Post by tripsclosed on Dec 28, 2022 19:20:40 GMT -6
I think Deion is an anomoly, but this will be a trend as others try to copy what he did. What Deion has shown so far is that he’s a charismatic presence who can promote and sell himself to recruits in a big time way. That is the major part of a college coach’s job, but there is more to it than that. Time will tell if he can win at Colorado, or if he stays at Colorado for long, or if he can even recruit there in a way that competes with Saban or Smart. He’s just a very unique case. None of the other guys hired under similar circumstances has accomplished anything like this yet, nor do I think it’s fair to expect them to… but administrators and boosters will be chasing this kind of a splash for a long time to come. And, honestly, he won't have to compete directly on the field with Saban and Smart, if he makes them competitive and steadily builds towards competing for a conference title, the job would be his for a long time considering Colorado's recent history. BUT if he is successful, you better believe he will bolt for the first opening at FSU (his Alma mater) or another big time program... |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 28, 2022 20:32:30 GMT -6
I think Deion is an anomoly, but this will be a trend as others try to copy what he did. What Deion has shown so far is that he’s a charismatic presence who can promote and sell himself to recruits in a big time way. That is the major part of a college coach’s job, but there is more to it than that. Time will tell if he can win at Colorado, or if he stays at Colorado for long, or if he can even recruit there in a way that competes with Saban or Smart. He’s just a very unique case. None of the other guys hired under similar circumstances has accomplished anything like this yet, nor do I think it’s fair to expect them to… but administrators and boosters will be chasing this kind of a splash for a long time to come. And, honestly, he won't have to compete directly on the field with Saban and Smart, if he makes them competitive and steadily builds towards competing for a conference title, the job would be his for a long time considering Colorado's recent history. BUT if he is successful, you better believe he will bolt for the first opening at FSU (his Alma mater) or another big time program... No, he won't have to play bama or uga on the field (unless in playoffs or bowl game...so thats an automatic success story) but he will be facing the current #3, #8, #10, #14, and #15 CFP ranked teams. That is a bit stiffer competition than he has been up against the last few seasons- especially given many would say he had the more talented roster most weekends. He will have leeway and SHOULD NOT be under pressure to win right away given CU's last decade of dismalness (but I am certain that anything less than 10 wins will have people calling it a failure). However, it is a somewhat unique situation that he put himself in. He is bringing his "Louis", so that may certainly shorten the honeymoon so to speak. I think CU will likely be one of if not the "top" story in college football next year, win or lose. Now, will that lead to an increase in the trend? |
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Post by carookie on Dec 28, 2022 22:22:17 GMT -6
I listened to the interview with him and Shannon Sharpe, if he is for real about what he says in the interview, then he is doing a lot of things right that should be commended.
The premise of "superstar coach" is relative to the level, for certain a Deion or Ed Reed are superstars at whatever level they are at, but at the HS level, simply having come from the NFL makes you a superstar in many ways. A few years back I was coaching on a staff with multiple former NFL players, I had a family member hear about this and her response was, "thats no fair, they'll teach all your kids all the tricks to make it to the NFL."
Us in the know, know thats silly, but there are many out there who feel that having made it to the pros gives you the ability to teach others how to make it there (ignoring the obvious genetic factor). Sanders eluded to it somewhat in the aforementioned interview.
This relates to the HS level, with open enrollment being what it is, where big name former NFL coaches can pull talent to their school with their name. I ain't complaining though, I've benefitted from it.
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Post by tripsclosed on Dec 28, 2022 22:53:21 GMT -6
He very well may be meticulous, detail oriented, a great motivator, etc. For what it's worth, I have seen he was a student of the game when he was in the NFL. He also played both sides of the ball, one season with the Cowboys, 94 IIRC, he played 80 percent of defensive snaps and 50 PERCENT OF OFFENSIVE SNAPS...Almost unheard of above HS level. So it helps he is a perspective for both sides of the ball... As far as motivator, I've seen a few of his pre game locker room videos, he gets a bit crazy for my personal tastes, BUT, he always ends calmly and confidently with "Aight let's go do this" or "Let's get after it", etc |
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Post by groundchuck on Dec 29, 2022 6:34:43 GMT -6
I don’t think that there are that many HOFers looking to get into coaching. Most HOFers who do work after retiring from football go to work in broadcasting or take a public relations job with their former team or with the NFL. There’s just not that many guys like Sanders or Reed who need to go into coaching. Dilfer was not a superstar but neither was Jim Harbaugh, who had a comparable NFL career. I can see Dilfer turning out like Harbaugh. If Dilfer isn’t successful, he won’t be around long. Harbaugh has coached for a long time because he’s a good coach, not because he played in the NFL. Jim Harbaugh's dad was a pretty good coach too. He grew up around coaches. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 29, 2022 9:20:33 GMT -6
I don’t think that there are that many HOFers looking to get into coaching. Most HOFers who do work after retiring from football go to work in broadcasting or take a public relations job with their former team or with the NFL. There’s just not that many guys like Sanders or Reed who need to go into coaching. Dilfer was not a superstar but neither was Jim Harbaugh, who had a comparable NFL career. I can see Dilfer turning out like Harbaugh. If Dilfer isn’t successful, he won’t be around long. Harbaugh has coached for a long time because he’s a good coach, not because he played in the NFL. Jim Harbaugh's dad was a pretty good coach too. He grew up around coaches. Harbaugh was likely going to be a coach regardless of being an NFL QB. I agree |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2022 10:57:04 GMT -6
He very well may be meticulous, detail oriented, a great motivator, etc. For what it's worth, I have seen he was a student of the game when he was in the NFL. He also played both sides of the ball, one season with the Cowboys, 94 IIRC, he played 80 percent of defensive snaps and 50 PERCENT OF OFFENSIVE SNAPS...Almost unheard of above HS level. So it helps he is a perspective for both sides of the ball... As far as motivator, I've seen a few of his pre game locker room videos, he gets a bit crazy for my personal tastes, BUT, he always ends calmly and confidently with "Aight let's go do this" or "Let's get after it", etc In ‘94, Deion was with the 49ers and played defense and STs only on a 1 year deal with what was considered one of the best teams of all time—they broke the Cowboys Super Bowl winning streak in the NFC championship game that year. In ‘95, he was the top free agent since Reggie White. There was a huge bidding war for his services and he only agreed to sign with the Cowboys because they agreed to play him at WR and Jerry Jones felt like he needed Deion to cover Jerry Rice. Deion had always wanted to be a 2 way player and get the ball more to raise his brand-something the Falcons would occasionally use him for a few snaps a year—but except for the ‘96 season where he caught 36/475 with a TD, he was not productive there and kind of sucked as a fast but raw and unphysical WR. That self promoter and business side of Deion is something that connects with a lot of these athletes. He sells himself as THE guy who can hook you up with NIL, give you solid career advice, and prepare you for a big time career. I mean, the guy became a household name as a CB and return man while also being a mediocre pro baseball player. Do you know any other HOFers at those positions with his level of fame and name recognition? After that year Deion was such hot free agent that year that he had it literally written into his contract that he would play both ways as a WR. |
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Post by tripsclosed on Dec 29, 2022 11:05:45 GMT -6
For what it's worth, I have seen he was a student of the game when he was in the NFL. He also played both sides of the ball, one season with the Cowboys, 94 IIRC, he played 80 percent of defensive snaps and 50 PERCENT OF OFFENSIVE SNAPS...Almost unheard of above HS level. So it helps he is a perspective for both sides of the ball... As far as motivator, I've seen a few of his pre game locker room videos, he gets a bit crazy for my personal tastes, BUT, he always ends calmly and confidently with "Aight let's go do this" or "Let's get after it", etc In ‘94, Deion was with the 49ers and played defense and STs only on a 1 year deal with what was considered one of the best teams of all time—they broke the Cowboys Super Bowl winning streak in the NFC championship game that year. In ‘95, he was the top free agent since Reggie White. There was a huge bidding war for his services and he only agreed to sign with the Cowboys because they agreed to play him at WR and Jerry Jones felt like he needed Deion to cover Jerry Rice. Deion had always wanted to be a 2 way player and get the ball more to raise his brand-something the Falcons would occasionally use him for a few snaps a year—but except for the ‘96 season where he caught 36/475 with a TD, he was not productive there and kind of sucked as a fast but raw and unphysical WR. That self promoter and business side of Deion is something that connects with a lot of these athletes. He sells himself as THE guy who can hook you up with NIL, give you solid career advice, and prepare you for a big time career. I mean, the guy became a household name as a CB and return man. Do you know any other HOFers at those positions with his level of fame and name recognition? After that year Deion was such hot free agent that year that he had it literally written into his contract that he would play both ways as a WR. As Paul Harvey used to say, Now you know...The rest...of the story... |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 21, 2023 12:12:32 GMT -6
Well, that didn't last long. Bethune-Cookman decided not to ratify Ed Reed's contract, presumably after his social media outburts regarding the conditions of the school.
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Post by CS on Jan 21, 2023 12:43:18 GMT -6
I like prime and hope he does well truly. However, everything about him has become so over dramatic it’s sickening
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 21, 2023 18:09:45 GMT -6
I like prime and hope he does well truly. However, everything about him has become so over dramatic it’s sickening I don't particularly care for the guy. Although he seems far more tolerable in older age than in his youth. I would like to see him make Colorado good again. |
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Post by 19delta on Jan 21, 2023 19:23:55 GMT -6
I like prime and hope he does well truly. However, everything about him has become so over dramatic it’s sickening I don't particularly care for the guy. Although he seems far more tolerable in older age than in his youth. I would like to see him make Colorado good again. One of my earliest memories of Sanders was Carlton Fisk getting all over him for not running out a pop fly. |
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 21, 2023 19:39:33 GMT -6
I don't particularly care for the guy. Although he seems far more tolerable in older age than in his youth. I would like to see him make Colorado good again. One of my earliest memories of Sanders was Carlton Fisk getting all over him for not running out a pop fly. That and the Tim McCarver World Series deal. Now, there's another guy who I can't stand- McCarver. Deion did have one of the greatest posters of all time- Deion's like water- he covers 75% of the earth's surface. |
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Post by 44dlcoach on Jan 21, 2023 21:49:35 GMT -6
I never knew that was a Deion poster, I do remember the similar Ed Reed quote. Which, oddly, is reasonably on topic on this thread.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 26, 2023 10:14:23 GMT -6
Apparently Indy is serious about keeping Saturday.
There used to be that question people would ask- "If ___ college or NFL team called and offered you their HC job, what do you do? (At least we used to play that game)" I used to say, heck ya I take it. If nothing else I become a multi millionaire while becoming a total embarassment. Heck, now I'm not sure I'm not over qualified.
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Post by blb on Jan 26, 2023 10:26:30 GMT -6
Apparently Indy is serious about keeping Saturday. There used to be that question people would ask- "If ___ college or NFL team called and offered you their HC job, what do you do? (At least we used to play that game)" I used to say, heck ya I take it. If nothing else I become a multi millionaire while becoming a total embarassment. Heck, now I'm not sure I'm not over qualified. Saturday was a (not very successful) HS coach for 2-3 years. |
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 26, 2023 10:33:52 GMT -6
Apparently Indy is serious about keeping Saturday. There used to be that question people would ask- "If ___ college or NFL team called and offered you their HC job, what do you do? (At least we used to play that game)" I used to say, heck ya I take it. If nothing else I become a multi millionaire while becoming a total embarassment. Heck, now I'm not sure I'm not over qualified. Saturday was a (not very successful) HS coach for 2-3 years. I did not know that. Where at? Edit- after some Googling I found the answer. Looks like he was there to be Coach Daddy. |
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Post by coachcb on Jan 26, 2023 10:48:43 GMT -6
All and all, the proof will be in the pudding. And we have a pretty simple metric; winning. Maybe Jeff Saturday goes on to produce fantastic results with the Colts... Maybe he crashes and burns. We'll see.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 26, 2023 11:05:42 GMT -6
As far as Sanders goes, I believe the guy has proven to be a quality HC. He did some great things at Jackson State and I wish him the best at Colorado. I doubt he'll be a flash in the pan.
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Post by RunThePistol on Jan 26, 2023 11:09:49 GMT -6
The trend of "superstar" coaches is not a trend. It's becoming a staple. It's happening all over the place. Deion was just the first, the innovator, if you will. In Tennessee I know we've had Dilfer, and now Kevin Mawae. Jason Witten interviewed for the same job after Dilfer left. Witten is currently HC at a private school in Texas.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Jan 26, 2023 11:12:52 GMT -6
I absolutely hate the Jeff Saturday hire.
Where has Ed Reed been coaching before?
I only know of Deion Sanders coaching in those high profile all star games prior to Jackson State?
A few years ago, nationally known Long Beach Poly hired Antonio Pierce as their head coach without much experience.
I think the thing I dislike the most about it, particularly with Sanders and Reed, is that it somehow someway becomes about them. Yes, this is true for a lot of other coaches (think Coach JB from Last Chance U and even Jim Harbaugh).
I feel for the guys who are just as good, if not better, who have spent years moving from state to state living in an equipment room who never get their shot.
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