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Post by larrymoe on Nov 26, 2024 9:54:24 GMT -6
But a lot of people voted for a dude that never worked in government........ That was the intention of the writers of the Constitution. A lifelong politician that suddenly has a net worth in the hundreds of millions despite never making more than $200k/yearwas what they were trying to avoid. |
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Post by brophy on Nov 26, 2024 10:00:16 GMT -6
If you have a coach that you know has been through these crucibles in the profession and can lay the ground work for sustained success (program building) this opens another can of worms, particularly with the 'celebrity' coach in that...does it even matter? Isn't the Header just a figurehead these days, anyway? Especially now in the era of unlimited staff members. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 26, 2024 11:57:04 GMT -6
If you have a coach that you know has been through these crucibles in the profession and can lay the ground work for sustained success (program building) this opens another can of worms, particularly with the 'celebrity' coach in that...does it even matter? Isn't the Header just a figurehead these days, anyway? Especially now in the era of unlimited staff members. No. The header is the person who creates the environment in which the team can (hopefully) succeed. People get too caught up on scheme and tactics. |
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Post by bulldogsdc on Nov 26, 2024 11:57:42 GMT -6
But a lot of people voted for a dude that never worked in government........ That was the intention of the writers of the Constitution. A lifelong politician that suddenly has a net worth in the hundreds of millions despite never making more than $200k/yearwas what they were trying to avoid. lifelong and suddenly don't seem to match up... Why didn't they set term limits if they didn't want life long politicians? |
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Post by brophy on Nov 26, 2024 12:16:49 GMT -6
No. The header is the person who creates the environment in which the team can (hopefully) succeed. Can you quantify how what you posted is markedly different than this? can lay the ground work for sustained success (program building) Who mentioned scheme? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 26, 2024 12:25:59 GMT -6
No. The header is the person who creates the environment in which the team can (hopefully) succeed. Can you quantify how what you posted is markedly different than this? Who mentioned scheme? It isn't. It is markedly different than being "just a figurehead", which was statement I was replying to. Who mentioned scheme? Everyone suggesting that Sander's couldn't be a HC because he was a supremely gifted cornerback? |
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Post by bulldogsdc on Nov 26, 2024 12:35:13 GMT -6
But a lot of people voted for a dude that never worked in government........ That was the intention of the writers of the Constitution. A lifelong politician that suddenly has a net worth in the hundreds of millions despite never making more than $200k/yearwas what they were trying to avoid. Why did they not write in term limits if they did not want long serving politicians? Lifelong and Suddenly don't rally fit in the same sentence |
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Post by fantom on Nov 26, 2024 12:38:36 GMT -6
Skip the line? Dude was in the NFL and a HOFer. Like saying Mark Zuckerburg couldn't teach coding in college....... Could he teach coding? Maybe, maybe not. Being great at doing something doesn't mean that you can teach it. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 26, 2024 12:42:47 GMT -6
Soo.umm...kind of getting away from the point of the thread, which is if "superstar" coaches who jumped the line so to speak will have an impact on a variety of things in the coaching field.
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Post by bulldogsdc on Nov 26, 2024 12:52:10 GMT -6
Did I jump the line? I Graduated after playing 4.5 years at a D2 school and immediately got the Varsity OL job at a 4A playoff school in Florida.
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 26, 2024 13:02:11 GMT -6
Did I jump the line? I Graduated after playing 4.5 years at a D2 school and immediately got the Varsity OL job at a 4A playoff school in Florida. The amount of qualified and quality applicants for your position probably isn't the same as in the other situations we are discussing. Also, you got a position coaching job- which is substantially different than the managerial role of a college head football coach. If we want to have a substantive discussion here, we are going to have to do better than bringing up politics or high school coaching positions in relation to the head coaching job of a Power 4 University. Trying to equate a HS offensive line job with the head coaching position at Colorado University is fairly absurd. However, to indulge you in this bit of absurdity, one could say that if there were other guys who had maybe started as 19 year old college student volunteers, had coached freshmen for 2 years, and then maybe 3 years of JV while working on their degree and you got the Varsity spot over them (assuming a split staff) then in their eyes, they may feel you jumped the line. If only 1 other candidate was interested in the job, and they couldn't draw up trap, then that phrase may not apply to you. |
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Post by bulldogsdc on Nov 26, 2024 13:17:02 GMT -6
copy that.
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 26, 2024 15:07:11 GMT -6
That was the intention of the writers of the Constitution. A lifelong politician that suddenly has a net worth in the hundreds of millions despite never making more than $200k/yearwas what they were trying to avoid. lifelong and suddenly don't seem to match up... Why didn't they set term limits if they didn't want life long politicians? They didn't set term limits for anything. They couldn't comprehend that anyone would do that job for 50 years. Hell, most people didn't live 50 years, let alone have people wheel their corpse into the Senate like Diane Feinstein. |
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Post by tripsclosed on Nov 26, 2024 15:26:29 GMT -6
lifelong and suddenly don't seem to match up... Why didn't they set term limits if they didn't want life long politicians? They didn't set term limits for anything. They couldn't comprehend that anyone would do that job for 50 years. Hell, most people didn't live 50 years, let alone have people wheel their corpse into the Senate like Diane Feinstein. The Founders did a pretty good job setting up the country, but there were still some glaring weaknesses that they, as careful, thoughtful, and meticulous as they were, should have been able to see coming. One of the biggest glaring oversights/weaknesses, was allowing the legislative body that makes the nation's laws, to also make the procedural laws that govern themselves...That is a HUGE conflict of interest, and can be seen no better and more glaringly than in the term limits issue. They will never get a majority to vote to implement term limits because it benefits members of Congress too much... Ideally, each of the three branches would make and preside over the procedural rules for the other two branches (shared powers) and never preside over and make their own procedural rules Or You'd have something like a commission or board made up of strictly non-partisan affilated members voted in by the populace, who would be responsible for setting procedural rules for the three branches and appointing Federal district, appeals, and supreme court justices to ensure impartiality in supreme court decisions without partisan influence Anyways. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 26, 2024 17:20:52 GMT -6
Wow, Deion, Eddie, and Trent really screwed up the government too??
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Post by 44special on Nov 26, 2024 17:23:38 GMT -6
the constitution had to be hammered out. arguments were many, often and fierce.
it's not like they all just agreed on most of the details and quietly argued a little on a thing or two here and there.
and i'm sure we're all about to get yelled at, since this isn't fb.
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Post by brophy on Nov 26, 2024 19:59:43 GMT -6
its an apt comparison, no?
neither CFB or American Republic is as it was intended or designed.
The genie is well out of the bottle and what we think we're seeing on display is merely a mirage of nostalgia
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Post by fantom on Nov 26, 2024 20:56:28 GMT -6
the constitution had to be hammered out. arguments were many, often and fierce. it's not like they all just agreed on most of the details and quietly argued a little on a thing or two here and there. and i'm sure we're all about to get yelled at, since this isn't fb. Not going to yell. I'll just say that, as much as I enjoy political discussions, with my being a retired history teacher, this isn't the place. |
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Post by 44special on Nov 26, 2024 20:58:23 GMT -6
no disagreement from me.
i'm just not sure exactly what's allowed and what isn't, also not sure how consistent it is
or how much attention is paid.
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Post by 44special on Nov 26, 2024 21:00:03 GMT -6
the constitution had to be hammered out. arguments were many, often and fierce. it's not like they all just agreed on most of the details and quietly argued a little on a thing or two here and there. and i'm sure we're all about to get yelled at, since this isn't fb. Not going to yell. I'll just say that, as much as I enjoy political discussions, with my being a retired history teacher, this isn't the place. no problem. i was just responding to a few earlier comments. i figured it would get shut down pretty quick. |
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Post by fantom on Nov 26, 2024 21:28:57 GMT -6
no disagreement from me. i'm just not sure exactly what's allowed and what isn't, also not sure how consistent it is or how much attention is paid. Well, mostly it's gotten back to the subject at hand. It's getting close sometimes, though. |
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Post by tripsclosed on Nov 26, 2024 22:14:01 GMT -6
Not going to yell. I'll just say that, as much as I enjoy political discussions, with my being a retired history teacher, this isn't the place. no problem. i was just responding to a few earlier comments. i figured it would get shut down pretty quick. Normally political discussions on here get shut down swiftly, but this discussion has been more descriptive rather than arguing partisan viewpoints, and no one (that I noticed anyways) has been immature and ugly with the political aspect of this discussion. |
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Post by 19delta on Nov 28, 2024 20:38:37 GMT -6
Sanders has not done a great job of endearing himself to the great majority of people who follow college football. But he clearly does not care about that. If it had been any other coach who has done what he has done at Colorado, he would be celebrated. And there wouldn’t be any qualifiers placed on his success.
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 28, 2024 20:46:05 GMT -6
Sanders has not done a great job of endearing himself to the great majority of people who follow college football. But he clearly does not care about that. If it had been any other coach who has done what he has done at Colorado, he would be celebrated. And there wouldn’t be any qualifiers placed on his success. That is an excellent way to put it. Interestingly, enough, another superstar coach, Eddie George, has done a fantastic job this season |
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 29, 2024 9:19:27 GMT -6
Sanders has not done a great job of endearing himself to the great majority of people who follow college football. But he clearly does not care about that. If it had been any other coach who has done what he has done at Colorado, he would be celebrated. And there wouldn’t be any qualifiers placed on his success. That is an excellent way to put it. Interestingly, enough, another superstar coach, Eddie George, has done a fantastic job this season And not a single person has heard a word about it. He doesn't have commercials every 30 seconds, he doesn't have some {censored} sitcom, he doesn't have ESPN fellating him every second and he doesn't have people on here telling us he's changed college football. He's quietly went about his work and that's why I like me some Eddie George. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 29, 2024 9:31:59 GMT -6
That is an excellent way to put it. Interestingly, enough, another superstar coach, Eddie George, has done a fantastic job this season And not a single person has heard a word about it. He doesn't have commercials every 30 seconds, he doesn't have some {censored} sitcom, he doesn't have ESPN fellating him every second and he doesn't have people on here telling us he's changed college football. He's quietly went about his work and that's why I like me some Eddie George. Fair enough regarding your personal feelings. But with respect to success, and playing "the game" in the 2024 college football landscape, is that what is best? Who knows. I don't disagree with your other thoughts. Just like you are, I am sick of seeing Saban every 3 minutes selling insurance, he and "Miss Terry" being America's new power couple, his sitcom of show that used to be College football Gameday, and everyone here telling us how he has changed college football from a defensive perspective such that people use terms he is credited for as if they were the standardized official language of football. That's who you were referring to right?  |
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Post by brophy on Nov 29, 2024 11:04:03 GMT -6
playing "the game" in the 2024 college football landscape..... I don't disagree with your other thoughts. Just like you are, I am sick of seeing Saban e I know we all can appreciate the metered and constructive arguments you always present here. It keeps the conversations lively and productive. This topic is no different. I agree with how the "DEION" shoe fits other characters, as well. This is why I feel its vital for those with 'issues' to be very clear on what it is we have issues with, namely for our own understanding of WHAT is the source of irritation. This exercise also helps keep discussions like these deductive and not orbiting banal reactions. The Sanders cult of personality isn't just ONE THING. His approach to coaching isn't just ONE THING. There are multiple facets combined that give many folks an allergic reaction. For me there are a dozen different items that diminish any foundation I would have to support him. I also believe its okay to simply not like a guy. I don't need justification.....but sometimes it helps Like it or not, his approach galvanizes what is at the forefront of "today's game" - its a massive marketing strategy. He controls this with establishing a media message and controls (access to) it. He is certainly well versed in how to orchestrate this from the late 80s. Do coaches pining for header positions have their own forceful SID platform strategy to promote your message (and discourage opposing views)? That spider webs out to social media, recruiting, NIL endorsements, etc.... What happens in 2025 will be the tell-all on if this 'experiment' is for real. He certainly accomplished more and exceeded expectations since being hired at CU on various fronts, that cannot be dismissed. There are quite a few lessons to glean from both JSU and CU. He has a system he follows that one could replicate even without his bombastic persona |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 29, 2024 11:19:13 GMT -6
What happens in 2025 will be the tell-all on if this 'experiment' is for real. He certainly accomplished more and exceeded expectations since being hired at CU on various fronts, that cannot be dismissed. There are quite a few lessons to glean from both JSU and CU. He has a system he follows that one could replicate even without his bombastic persona But will it be? Or more accurately, is it "fair" to say that 2025 will be the tell all. Down years happen - ehem..LSU..last 3 HCs..lol. I can respect someone not liking the guy, especially since nobody on here actually KNOWS him. Might have met him, but doesn't KNOW him, so all you have is the what you see (a guy wearing sunglasses at interviews, and challenging media who didn't swoon over him). No problem with that at all. |
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Post by fantom on Nov 29, 2024 11:27:06 GMT -6
And not a single person has heard a word about it. He doesn't have commercials every 30 seconds, he doesn't have some {censored} sitcom, he doesn't have ESPN fellating him every second and he doesn't have people on here telling us he's changed college football. He's quietly went about his work and that's why I like me some Eddie George. Fair enough regarding your personal feelings. But with respect to success, and playing "the game" in the 2024 college football landscape, is that what is best? Who knows. I don't disagree with your other thoughts. Just like you are, I am sick of seeing Saban every 3 minutes selling insurance, he and "Miss Terry" being America's new power couple, his sitcom of show that used to be College football Gameday, and everyone here telling us how he has changed college football from a defensive perspective such that people use terms he is credited for as if they were the standardized official language of football. That's who you were referring to right? There's one big difference between Saban and Sanders, though: Saban had to win before his cult started. |
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Post by brophy on Nov 29, 2024 11:29:58 GMT -6
what happens in 2025 won't have any impact on the accomplishments of 2024. I think 2025 provides a proving ground of what that program objectively is*. If the cupboard is completely bare in 2025 and there isn't a marked improvement in O/D/K that wouldn't help solidify a legacy of competence. Up until now, his career has been the 2.5 sons reality show. We're not drawing from 5-10 years of 'system' history like we would any other head coach. This would be where much of the skepticism comes from. I dont buy the assured optimism of the position "how dare you question this coach" when he has an OL Coach 1st time coaching, DC 1st time coordinating, new OC, ST Coordinator taking over at the beginning of the season, a HC with zero P5, coordinating, or 'team without his sons' experience with a roster full of mercs. WHO was Sean Payton as a "head coach" without HoF Drew Brees making him look like some offensive savant (other than his OC background)? * sure the Tesla name brand had established itself, but the jury would be out on the Tesla Truck (2023). Just because the car has been in production, doesn't mean the completely different line of 'utility vehicle' can piggyback on that track record. To say the 'Tesla Truck' is legit would require it proving itself in real world challenges. The same is true for this head coach's LEGACY There's one big difference between Saban and Sanders, though: Saban had to win before his cult started. He has a system he follows that one could replicate even without his bombastic persona I don't think it was an accident that the Saban + Sanders insurance deal happened. It was a way for Sanders to become associated with a CFB icon. Their (forced) relationship facilitated a 'passing of the torch' for even diehards to relinquish skepticism. Its a genius propaganda tool |
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