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Post by kylem56 on Jul 17, 2022 18:17:25 GMT -6
Coaches, a discussion I had with a respected colleague of mine the other day led to the discussion, are 7-on-7's necessary for contrarian offenses such as the Power-T, Wing-T, Flexbone, Single Wing etc. ESPECIALLY if you are the only one in your conference running such offense?
After coaching 18 seasons at the varsity level, I have started towards leaning towards NO they are not. A few years ago, a local team in our area who also ran the Power-T participated in 6 or 7 , 7-on-7 events over the course of 2 weeks, the result, 4 soft tissue injuries that would leave them without their starters for the first couple of games to start the season, and 1 kid with a broken collar bone.
In my experience running the Power-T, or the Wing-T over the last 18 years, we will still see 3-4 Cover 2 and ends up being 2 deep 5 under. We have yet to see anyone play 5 under, even in an obvious passing situation because we will run Trap if teams are cheating their linebackers and safeties back. I suppose you could argue, you have to get your defenses work against other varsity offenses, in a full speed format. Regardless, I am just curious to hear your experiences and opinions. I don't think theres a right or wrong answer, I just would like to hear other opinions.
thanks in advance, Kyle
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Post by tripsclosed on Jul 17, 2022 18:23:40 GMT -6
Coaches, a discussion I had with a respected colleague of mine the other day led to the discussion, are 7-on-7's necessary for contrarian offenses such as the Power-T, Wing-T, Flexbone, Single Wing etc. ESPECIALLY if you are the only one in your conference running such offense? After coaching 18 seasons at the varsity level, I have started towards leaning towards NO they are not. A few years ago, a local team in our area who also ran the Power-T participated in 6 or 7 , 7-on-7 events over the course of 2 weeks, the result, 4 soft tissue injuries that would leave them without their starters for the first couple of games to start the season, and 1 kid with a broken collar bone. In my experience running the Power-T, or the Wing-T over the last 18 years, we will still see 3-4 Cover 2 and ends up being 2 deep 5 under. We have yet to see anyone play 5 under, even in an obvious passing situation because we will run Trap if teams are cheating their linebackers and safeties back. I suppose you could argue, you have to get your defenses work against other varsity offenses, in a full speed format. Regardless, I am just curious to hear your experiences and opinions. I don't think theres a right or wrong answer, I just would like to hear other opinions. thanks in advance, Kyle You sure about the Cover 2? Just about every time i see Cover 2 get mentioned on here or anywhere else on the interweb, people say they don't see it anymore 😄
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Post by kylem56 on Jul 17, 2022 18:26:22 GMT -6
Coaches, a discussion I had with a respected colleague of mine the other day led to the discussion, are 7-on-7's necessary for contrarian offenses such as the Power-T, Wing-T, Flexbone, Single Wing etc. ESPECIALLY if you are the only one in your conference running such offense? After coaching 18 seasons at the varsity level, I have started towards leaning towards NO they are not. A few years ago, a local team in our area who also ran the Power-T participated in 6 or 7 , 7-on-7 events over the course of 2 weeks, the result, 4 soft tissue injuries that would leave them without their starters for the first couple of games to start the season, and 1 kid with a broken collar bone. In my experience running the Power-T, or the Wing-T over the last 18 years, we will still see 3-4 Cover 2 and ends up being 2 deep 5 under. We have yet to see anyone play 5 under, even in an obvious passing situation because we will run Trap if teams are cheating their linebackers and safeties back. I suppose you could argue, you have to get your defenses work against other varsity offenses, in a full speed format. Regardless, I am just curious to hear your experiences and opinions. I don't think theres a right or wrong answer, I just would like to hear other opinions. thanks in advance, Kyle You sure about the Cover 2? Just about every time i see Cover 2 get mentioned on here or anywhere else on the interweb, people say they don't see it anymore 😄 I could clarify myself and say it looks like Cover 2 with corners playing 2 yards outside, 5 yards deep of the tight ends but they do not drop to a deep 1/4 , they immediately run to the flat
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Post by tripsclosed on Jul 17, 2022 18:29:27 GMT -6
You sure about the Cover 2? Just about every time i see Cover 2 get mentioned on here or anywhere else on the interweb, people say they don't see it anymore 😄 I could clarify myself and say it looks like Cover 2 with corners playing 2 yards outside, 5 yards deep of the tight ends but they do not drop to a deep 1/4 , they immediately run to the flat Of all those people who say they dont see cover 2 anymore, i'd be curious to see how many are not seeing any cover 2, PERIOD, and how many are not seeing old school, full field cover 2 BUT ARE seeing half-field cover 2 to the boundary from split field defenses...
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Post by CS on Jul 17, 2022 18:39:58 GMT -6
I like it for the defense to see good routes with receivers that run them full speed
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 17, 2022 19:13:57 GMT -6
Do you coach a football team? Or a football contrarian offense? Because there is a defensive aspect to 7 on 7. That said, unscripted and unmodified 7 on 7 events with are largely a waste of time. Even for the defense.
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Post by KYCoach2331 on Jul 17, 2022 19:26:15 GMT -6
7v7 is so valuable for your defense if you use it properly.. Being able to see so many reps in coverage is so beneficial idc if you never throw the ball your defense needs it.
For people who say “how’s it beneficial if you know the other team has to throw it you don’t have to take your read steps blah blah” on friggin Third & 12+ you know a team is going to sling it- or if you’re up 2 scores in the late fourth you know they’re going to throw it.
Our DBs improved drastically from Friday to Saturday. Friday I was pulling my hair out. Saturday things were much better. Not perfect but better.
Also contrarian offenses have passing games too, usually. You can run waggle.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Jul 17, 2022 19:40:49 GMT -6
I've come around on the tournament stuff. I still think they're super exaggerated but it's good to see formations, motions, etc. for us defensively. I still much prefer a scripted scrimmage to "tournament style" but I don't despise them as much as I used to.
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 17, 2022 20:00:12 GMT -6
I like it for the defense to see good routes with receivers that run them full speed This. As an I formation, run 60-70% of the time, that's why we went to them, for defense. Coincidentally, the only 3 years we had losing regular season records, we were really good at 7on7. The hear we went 11-1 we might have went .500 in 7on7s.
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Post by irishdog on Jul 17, 2022 20:07:04 GMT -6
My teams were always in a 7 on 7 "league"every Tuesday eve in June, two 30 minute "games" with a 15 min. break in between. We were a DW team. Would use our "spread" look to work on our quick passing game, and our "tight" look to work on our PA game. It was a perfect time for our "contrarian" offense to get the pass offense in, and work on it vs. better competition. Didn't have a lot of it, bu what we had worked well. The payoff of 7 on 7 for us was on the defensive side of the ball. Our defense got a ton of work getting familiar with the type of spread looks we would see during the season which put us way ahead of the game during fall camp.
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Post by bignose on Jul 17, 2022 20:11:16 GMT -6
There is something about teaching the kids how to compete and play as a team that has it's place. It can be useful for creating team chemistry.
I agree with the comments about helping to prepare your defense against what they may see. We used it to teach and evaluate our defensive backs as well.
And yes, injuries concerned us, but the kids could have just as easily gotten hurt playing chose up touch or neighborhood basketball.
We'd have a small package of passes drawn up out of a 2 x 2 and 3 x 1 sets. I didn't expect to run a precision timed passing offense, more like our kids in space, getting open, or behind defenders. Basic backyard football. It also showed what the QB's strengths were, even though we weren't going to throw a lot during the season. (We won a State Championship game in 2010, and only threw 3 passes. The sole completion was a halfback pass for a TD).
We showed up at a local 7-7 tournament, back about 2009, and ran in one of our games from our base tight DW formation. One of our opponents coaches, a younger guy, walked over to me and earnestly asked me why we were running from a punt formation, when there was no kicking in 7-7.
I just kinda smiled.....and watched our kids pick the dog snot out of his defensive backs when he tried to cover us with a tight man-under-2 deep. He was wrong. There was kicking in 7-7. We were kicking his butt.
I hated the all day tournaments. Just burned out the kids and the coaches. And for what? Trophies?
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Post by mariner42 on Jul 17, 2022 21:51:36 GMT -6
I like it for the defense to see good routes with receivers that run them full speed Pretty much. It's frustrating as f*** for our offense. We saw more 2-high defenses on a single Saturday than we will all year. But our defense got a lot better in a short amount of time.
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 17, 2022 22:03:05 GMT -6
Cover 2 Man and the passes that would normally hit your center in the back of the head. 7on7 phenomenon that just make you shake your head and laugh.
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Post by mariner42 on Jul 17, 2022 22:49:56 GMT -6
the passes that would normally hit your center in the back of the head OH MY GOD YES. 5'6" QB throwing shoulder level passes on the goal line... SUUUUURRRE.
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Post by morris on Jul 18, 2022 5:02:00 GMT -6
For your defense to reps it’s typically worth it.
The first thing I thought of is I’m not sure how many teams (unless you’re well known for it in your state) would even realize you are wing-t. All the kids would wonder why you are under center. We’ve got a few good ones here in the state but I’d say a large majority of coaches in the state are pretty clueless about the wing-t.
It’s a chance to work a little quick game.
Some of the crap you see in 7 on 7 is a little harder against wing-t sets. The defense that everyone is going to press/bully/maul the offense. With the motion and crossing of WR from what they see as bunch and stack alignment.
We are a little contrarian. Our QB pulled so genuine 7 on 7 stuff on his own this weekend. Kids lose sight of the purpose at times. Especially once teams get a little chippy.
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Post by coachcb on Jul 18, 2022 7:00:57 GMT -6
Offensively, we found a little value in 7 v 7, running the Wing T. It a chance to get extra reps in a competitive situation. Some of DCs we faced were smart and used it to get reps at their 'heavier" coverages (Robber, C1, etc). Others didn't which just meant that we got more out of the session than they did.
These 7v7 get-togethers were great for us defensively. But, the coverages we ran were a reflection of what we were seeing from the opposing offense. We pretty much lived in our base but got a chance to work on everything.
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Post by bluedevil4 on Jul 18, 2022 8:27:54 GMT -6
As a few others said, they're invaluable for defense I think. One of the biggest defensive headaches I see year in and out at every program I'm at is defensive backs not communicating or not understanding formations and when to do certain things in pass coverage. These 7 on 7s are a great place to slow down and teach the "how" and "why" behind all the communication that is required of them, and as they improve, they can watch their coverage as a team improve without having to focus on all the other aspects of defense.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2022 9:47:37 GMT -6
They can be useful for teaching and preparing your defense as well as working on your long yardage stuff.
However, I know some coaches who run old fashioned offenses and don’t bother with 7v7 because they feel it’s not with it for them. I even worked for one who threw the ball 70% of the time and thought 7v7 was silly.
Skipping 7-on-7 doesn’t seem to have hurt them, but they do/did get a lot of pressure from parents and kids to do 7v7s.
I even know of a few coaches like that who will put in an entirely different “spread” offense just for 7v7, run that in a few tournaments, then never use any of it in a live game. That seems like a waste of time to me. I like that approach even less than the spread teams (usually the really bad ones) who seem to be emphasize and celebrate 7v7 success even more than regular season success.
Personally, if it’s a lame thing where everyone is running a very different offense and playing 2 man with their MLB covering an H-back down the middle, knowing fully well they will never use that coverage in the regular or post season , you might as well just stay home and lift.
In the last few years, I saw several kids leave 7v7 with major injuries. One team lost their stud MLB as well as their D1 RB commit for the season to knee injuries in a single 7v7 we were involved in.
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Post by mariner42 on Jul 18, 2022 10:34:41 GMT -6
As a few others said, they're invaluable for defense I think. One of the biggest defensive headaches I see year in and out at every program I'm at is defensive backs not communicating or not understanding formations and when to do certain things in pass coverage. These 7 on 7s are a great place to slow down and teach the "how" and "why" behind all the communication that is required of them, and as they improve, they can watch their coverage as a team improve without having to focus on all the other aspects of defense. The 7s I did this year drove me crazy because they put a play clock on it as part of the competitive set up, but IDGAF about that when I'm trying to teach kids who are struggling with learning. I eventually yelled at the kid to stop counting and either move the ball back or leave me alone because I was going to operate at my pace. Real old man moment for me as I continue to approach 40.
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Post by tripsclosed on Jul 18, 2022 10:45:47 GMT -6
They can be useful for teaching and preparing your defense as well as working on your long yardage stuff. However, I know some coaches who run old fashioned offenses and don’t bother with 7v7 because they feel it’s not with it for them. I even worked for one who threw the ball 70% of the time and thought 7v7 was silly. Skipping 7-on-7 doesn’t seem to have hurt them, but they do/did get a lot of pressure from parents and kids to do 7v7s. I even know of a few coaches like that who will put in an entirely different “spread” offense just for 7v7, run that in a few tournaments, then never use any of it in a live game. That seems like a waste of time to me. I like that approach even less than the spread teams (usually the really bad ones) who seem to be emphasize and celebrate 7v7 success even more than regular season success. Personally, if it’s a lame thing where everyone is running a very different offense and playing 2 man with their MLB covering an H-back down the middle, knowing fully well they will never use that coverage in the regular or post season , you might as well just stay home and lift. In the last few years, I saw several kids leave 7v7 with major injuries. One team lost their stud MLB as well as their D1 RB commit for the season to knee injuries in a single 7v7 we were involved in. This should be stickied. Seriously.
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Post by bignose on Jul 18, 2022 11:27:40 GMT -6
Real old man moment for me as I continue to approach 40. 40? Old man moment? I've got socks that are older than that!
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Post by CS on Jul 18, 2022 14:37:24 GMT -6
40? Old man moment? I've got socks that are older than that! Go get some new ones
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Post by bignose on Jul 18, 2022 14:51:21 GMT -6
Jokes or socks?
lol
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Post by blb on Jul 18, 2022 14:53:20 GMT -6
The ones that stink or have holes in them.
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Post by 33coach on Jul 18, 2022 15:04:36 GMT -6
Coaches, a discussion I had with a respected colleague of mine the other day led to the discussion, are 7-on-7's necessary for contrarian offenses such as the Power-T, Wing-T, Flexbone, Single Wing etc. ESPECIALLY if you are the only one in your conference running such offense? After coaching 18 seasons at the varsity level, I have started towards leaning towards NO they are not. A few years ago, a local team in our area who also ran the Power-T participated in 6 or 7 , 7-on-7 events over the course of 2 weeks, the result, 4 soft tissue injuries that would leave them without their starters for the first couple of games to start the season, and 1 kid with a broken collar bone. In my experience running the Power-T, or the Wing-T over the last 18 years, we will still see 3-4 Cover 2 and ends up being 2 deep 5 under. We have yet to see anyone play 5 under, even in an obvious passing situation because we will run Trap if teams are cheating their linebackers and safeties back. I suppose you could argue, you have to get your defenses work against other varsity offenses, in a full speed format. Regardless, I am just curious to hear your experiences and opinions. I don't think theres a right or wrong answer, I just would like to hear other opinions. thanks in advance, Kyle my normal approach would be run draw, and step up for the fist fight thats about to happen. if your staff isnt down to fight.... idk run waggle and all your play action stuff and get the hell out.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 18, 2022 16:54:39 GMT -6
As a few others said, they're invaluable for defense I think. One of the biggest defensive headaches I see year in and out at every program I'm at is defensive backs not communicating or not understanding formations and when to do certain things in pass coverage. These 7 on 7s are a great place to slow down and teach the "how" and "why" behind all the communication that is required of them, and as they improve, they can watch their coverage as a team improve without having to focus on all the other aspects of defense. The 7s I did this year drove me crazy because they put a play clock on it as part of the competitive set up, but IDGAF about that when I'm trying to teach kids who are struggling with learning. I eventually yelled at the kid to stop counting and either move the ball back or leave me alone because I was going to operate at my pace. Real old man moment for me as I continue to approach 40. Anyone who has read my posts on this board about 7 on 7 knows that I have very little use for the competitive, AAU style 3 downs to get 15 yards, everybody play 4 wide vs 2man, keep score based on touchdowns type of event. So I feel your pain, however respectfully, you should not have taken the club to those events if that was the vibe the other teams agreed to/were going for. Sorry, I am a bit older..LOL, and my "old man moments" often come from when coaches stop parts of practice to coach their players 1 on 1 when practice is being filmed. Or..even WORSE, when someone delays practice to teach SCOUT TEAM guys fundamentals. In other words, I think it is important to understand situations and environment. If that event was designed to be a competitive "try to win this game following these rules"... well I just wouldn't take my club if that wasn't what I wanted.
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Post by tripsclosed on Jul 18, 2022 17:27:10 GMT -6
The 7s I did this year drove me crazy because they put a play clock on it as part of the competitive set up, but IDGAF about that when I'm trying to teach kids who are struggling with learning. I eventually yelled at the kid to stop counting and either move the ball back or leave me alone because I was going to operate at my pace. Real old man moment for me as I continue to approach 40. Anyone who has read my posts on this board about 7 on 7 knows that I have very little use for the competitive, AAU style 3 downs to get 15 yards, everybody play 4 wide vs 2man, keep score based on touchdowns type of event. So I feel your pain, however respectfully, you should not have taken the club to those events if that was the vibe the other teams agreed to/were going for. Sorry, I am a bit older..LOL, and my "old man moments" often come from when coaches stop parts of practice to coach their players 1 on 1 when practice is being filmed. Or..even WORSE, when someone delays practice to teach SCOUT TEAM guys fundamentals. In other words, I think it is important to understand situations and environment. If that event was designed to be a competitive "try to win this game following these rules"... well I just wouldn't take my club if that wasn't what I wanted. Ouch, stopping scout to coach fundamentals to the scout team, i think that's going in my catalog of chit to watch out for and dont ever let become a problem...
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 18, 2022 17:34:28 GMT -6
Anyone who has read my posts on this board about 7 on 7 knows that I have very little use for the competitive, AAU style 3 downs to get 15 yards, everybody play 4 wide vs 2man, keep score based on touchdowns type of event. So I feel your pain, however respectfully, you should not have taken the club to those events if that was the vibe the other teams agreed to/were going for. Sorry, I am a bit older..LOL, and my "old man moments" often come from when coaches stop parts of practice to coach their players 1 on 1 when practice is being filmed. Or..even WORSE, when someone delays practice to teach SCOUT TEAM guys fundamentals. In other words, I think it is important to understand situations and environment. If that event was designed to be a competitive "try to win this game following these rules"... well I just wouldn't take my club if that wasn't what I wanted. Ouch, stopping scout to coach fundamentals to the scout team, i think that's going in my catalog of chit to watch out for and dont ever let become a problem... I had a few choice words for that particular coach... basically saying "That is what the hell individual period is for!!!" in less polite terms. Don't take 2 minutes of a 15 minute team period to try and coach up a scout team OL who isn't blocking the kid in front of him if he executed perfectly!
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Post by Defcord on Jul 18, 2022 17:56:20 GMT -6
Coaches, a discussion I had with a respected colleague of mine the other day led to the discussion, are 7-on-7's necessary for contrarian offenses such as the Power-T, Wing-T, Flexbone, Single Wing etc. ESPECIALLY if you are the only one in your conference running such offense? After coaching 18 seasons at the varsity level, I have started towards leaning towards NO they are not. A few years ago, a local team in our area who also ran the Power-T participated in 6 or 7 , 7-on-7 events over the course of 2 weeks, the result, 4 soft tissue injuries that would leave them without their starters for the first couple of games to start the season, and 1 kid with a broken collar bone. In my experience running the Power-T, or the Wing-T over the last 18 years, we will still see 3-4 Cover 2 and ends up being 2 deep 5 under. We have yet to see anyone play 5 under, even in an obvious passing situation because we will run Trap if teams are cheating their linebackers and safeties back. I suppose you could argue, you have to get your defenses work against other varsity offenses, in a full speed format. Regardless, I am just curious to hear your experiences and opinions. I don't think theres a right or wrong answer, I just would like to hear other opinions. thanks in advance, Kyle How did he break a collarbone; did he trip on something or run into the goal post?
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Post by tog on Jul 22, 2022 19:21:17 GMT -6
when we went flexbone
stayed under center
moved fb to a different spot r or l
ran our same routes
only really did it for our defense
so glad I don't have to watch those games anymore
was at buena vista u the other day and saw they had one going, I didn't even look, just went to the lakeside and enjoyed that instead
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