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Post by 44dlcoach on Jul 22, 2022 21:21:59 GMT -6
We went to one the other night. The other team got to the 5 yard line and got into empty. We are a 3-3 team and play Cover 0 from the 5 yard line so we had all 3 LBs take a knee. We held them for a couple downs but eventually they scored after the QB held the ball for 4 Mississippi's against our 6 man rush and we lost. I wear it as a badge of honor haha.
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Post by coachlit on Jul 23, 2022 7:14:15 GMT -6
If anyone cares.. Coach Lad from De La Salle would still take his teams to the 7 on 7 tournaments and he boasted that he didn’t win one tournament in all his years coaching. But like previously mentioned, it was good for his teams to compete and communicate on defense.
Edit: for those not in the know, he famously is one of the most winningest coaches in HS history running the split back veer.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 23, 2022 11:59:17 GMT -6
If anyone cares.. Coach Lad from De La Salle would still take his teams to the 7 on 7 tournaments and he boasted that he didn’t win one tournament in all his years coaching. But like previously mentioned, it was good for his teams to compete and communicate on defense. Edit: for those not in the know, he famously is one of the most winningest coaches in HS history running the split back veer. I would say if possible, there are better ways to do it. Meaning, not go to a 7 on 7 tournaments, but rather invite like minded programs to compete in a scripted situation where everyone abides by the gentleman's agreement to "run your stuff". But if you can't do that, then yes the benefit you get out of competition and playing defense may be worthwhile. |
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Post by tog on Jul 23, 2022 12:50:38 GMT -6
another funny story, about 10 years ago, took my nfl qb to a big 7on7 in desoto against them, told him at some point to line up in our i formation and run our power pass----
coach are you sure? yeah, they won't even know how to line up
they didn't know how to line up, scored from 70 yards out on hitting the fb in the flat on the power pass
glorious
desoto kids were yelling out---they can't line up under center, what the heck----so fun
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Post by 44dlcoach on Jul 23, 2022 16:13:48 GMT -6
We went to a tournament in the spring, one of the rules was that your TE couldn't line up "inside the tackle box".
Watched one coach lose his crap on the ref because the other teams off-the-line H back type guy was right next to the ball but in the backfield. He kept screaming at the ref that it was illegal because the guy was a TE.
Best part was the ref was a real d!ck back to him explaining the difference between the backfield and the LOS and what "tight end" means. Something to the effect of "pick up a rulebook, learn what 'end' means and then let's talk.'"
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 23, 2022 17:29:56 GMT -6
We went to a tournament in the spring, one of the rules was that your TE couldn't line up "inside the tackle box". Watched one coach lose his crap on the ref because the other teams off-the-line H back type guy was right next to the ball but in the backfield. He kept screaming at the ref that it was illegal because the guy was a TE. Best part was the ref was a real d!ck back to him explaining the difference between the backfield and the LOS and what "tight end" means. Something to the effect of "pick up a rulebook, learn what 'end' means and then let's talk.'" I would side with the coach losing his crap to be honest. That sounds like a semantic difference, and a fairly foolish one at that given the fact that is supposedly an activity related to the sport played from September-December. Another anecdote related to what I said earlier (and appropriate because someone mentioned De LaSalle. Had the pleasure of organizing a "get together" (as opposed to a competitive tournament) several years ago. One of the teams 3 teams their also ran the Split Back Veer...to the tune of about 400 wins (at that time. It's currently 600 for the coach). He came out and on the first play was 4 wide one back. I politely walked up to him and said "Coach...would you do that on 1st and 10", and he kind of grinned and said "Well, I didn't want to waste everyone's time here. You know how we play coach ". I responded "Yes Sir, so lets do this. Lets run these first 5 plays like it is 1st and 10. Go on and run a pass play you would do on 1st and 10, I will call a coverage I would on 1st and 10, then we will do 2nd/3rd and mediums and then we can do 3rd and longs and 2 minute. Lets get better for September" Coach curtis was beaming and said " That's a great Idea" And so the 3 teams proceeded to work to get better for September. |
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Post by 44dlcoach on Jul 23, 2022 22:14:25 GMT -6
We went to a tournament in the spring, one of the rules was that your TE couldn't line up "inside the tackle box". Watched one coach lose his crap on the ref because the other teams off-the-line H back type guy was right next to the ball but in the backfield. He kept screaming at the ref that it was illegal because the guy was a TE. Best part was the ref was a real d!ck back to him explaining the difference between the backfield and the LOS and what "tight end" means. Something to the effect of "pick up a rulebook, learn what 'end' means and then let's talk.'" I would side with the coach losing his crap to be honest. That sounds like a semantic difference, and a fairly foolish one at that given the fact that is supposedly an activity related to the sport played from September-December. Another anecdote related to what I said earlier (and appropriate because someone mentioned De LaSalle. Had the pleasure of organizing a "get together" (as opposed to a competitive tournament) several years ago. One of the teams 3 teams their also ran the Split Back Veer...to the tune of about 400 wins (at that time. It's currently 600 for the coach). He came out and on the first play was 4 wide one back. I politely walked up to him and said "Coach...would you do that on 1st and 10", and he kind of grinned and said "Well, I didn't want to waste everyone's time here. You know how we play coach ". I responded "Yes Sir, so lets do this. Lets run these first 5 plays like it is 1st and 10. Go on and run a pass play you would do on 1st and 10, I will call a coverage I would on 1st and 10, then we will do 2nd/3rd and mediums and then we can do 3rd and longs and 2 minute. Lets get better for September" Coach curtis was beaming and said " That's a great Idea" And so the 3 teams proceeded to work to get better for September. As a guy trying to get ready for the fall, as I am, why would you care where the opposing team lines up its players? How big a difference in your defense is there between a RB standing next to the QB in gun and a RB taking 2 steps forward from that same width? That's basically where this kid was aligned that caused the crap-losing. |
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Post by fantom on Jul 24, 2022 8:12:38 GMT -6
I would side with the coach losing his crap to be honest. That sounds like a semantic difference, and a fairly foolish one at that given the fact that is supposedly an activity related to the sport played from September-December. Another anecdote related to what I said earlier (and appropriate because someone mentioned De LaSalle. Had the pleasure of organizing a "get together" (as opposed to a competitive tournament) several years ago. One of the teams 3 teams their also ran the Split Back Veer...to the tune of about 400 wins (at that time. It's currently 600 for the coach). He came out and on the first play was 4 wide one back. I politely walked up to him and said "Coach...would you do that on 1st and 10", and he kind of grinned and said "Well, I didn't want to waste everyone's time here. You know how we play coach ". I responded "Yes Sir, so lets do this. Lets run these first 5 plays like it is 1st and 10. Go on and run a pass play you would do on 1st and 10, I will call a coverage I would on 1st and 10, then we will do 2nd/3rd and mediums and then we can do 3rd and longs and 2 minute. Lets get better for September" Coach curtis was beaming and said " That's a great Idea" And so the 3 teams proceeded to work to get better for September. As a guy trying to get ready for the fall, as I am, why would you care where the opposing team lines up its players? How big a difference in your defense is there between a RB standing next to the QB in gun and a RB taking 2 steps forward from that same width? That's basically where this kid was aligned that caused the crap-losing. It depends on what your reason is for lining up in that formation. If that's your normal offense, one that uses a "sniffer", fine. I've seen too many guys try to win July by lining up like that, which they NEVER do in a real game, so that the sniffer can take two steps forward into an area that would normally be occupied by large bodies and catch a 1 yard TD pass. Yay, we win!! |
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Post by silkyice on Jul 24, 2022 10:24:25 GMT -6
We don't do 7on7's at all. I didn't even like them when I was spread. I have found them to be counter productive and not worth the time.
1) injuries. Even with my limited 7 on 7 tournaments, I had a kid tear his ACL and one mess up his shoulder. Our biggest rival lost two impact players to 7on7's last year.
2) You don't face real defenses.
3) You don't face real situations.
4) You don't face real techniques. You get jammed/held at the LOS all time in 7on7. You know how many times my receivers have ever had a hard time releasing in real games? Zero. In 7 on 7, they damn near get tackled at the line.
5) Why would I want to show my opponents my pass game or pass defense? I know, I know, they will see it on tape anyways, but it doesn't quite work like that with us and our complicated coverages/blitzes, etc.
6) The dang tournaments are too long. 4 pool play games and then a tournament? While it is 95 degrees? Jeez.
7) Competition. I do agree that getting kids to compete is a good thing. Which is EXACTLY why I don't want to do 7 on 7. I am not going to give them the best chance to compete to win. We aren't going to practice for it or have the right defenses or right offense. So that is counter productive.
8) I once got wrapped up in it at the moment and did the bs running back completion for a first down right over the center for a 1 yard game.
9) We already ask enough of these kids all summer.
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Post by tripsclosed on Jul 24, 2022 11:08:00 GMT -6
We don't do 7on7's at all. I didn't even like them when I was spread. I have found them to be counter productive and not worth the time. 1) injuries. Even with my limited 7 on 7 tournaments, I had a kid tear his ACL and one mess up his shoulder. Our biggest rival lost two impact players to 7on7's last year. 2) You don't face real defenses. 3) You don't face real situations. 4) You don't face real techniques. You get jammed/held at the LOS all time in 7on7. You know how many times my receivers have ever had a hard time releasing in real games? Zero. In 7 on 7, they damn near get tackled at the line. 5) Why would I want to show my opponents my pass game or pass defense? I know, I know, they will see it on tape anyways, but it doesn't quite work like that with us and our complicated coverages/blitzes, etc. 6) The dang tournaments are too long. 4 pool play games and then a tournament? While it is 95 degrees? Jeez. 7) Competition. I do agree that getting kids to compete is a good thing. Which is EXACTLY why I don't want to do 7 on 7. I am not going to give them the best chance to compete to win. We aren't going to practice for it or have the right defenses or right offense. So that is counter productive. 8) I once got wrapped up in it at the moment and did the bs running back completion for a first down right over the center for a 1 yard game. 9) We already ask enough of these kids all summer. IMO the injuries are the biggest deterrent... |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 24, 2022 11:10:58 GMT -6
We don't do 7on7's at all. I didn't even like them when I was spread. I have found them to be counter productive and not worth the time. 1) injuries. Even with my limited 7 on 7 tournaments, I had a kid tear his ACL and one mess up his shoulder. Our biggest rival lost two impact players to 7on7's last year. 2) You don't face real defenses. 3) You don't face real situations. 4) You don't face real techniques. You get jammed/held at the LOS all time in 7on7. You know how many times my receivers have ever had a hard time releasing in real games? Zero. In 7 on 7, they damn near get tackled at the line. 5) Why would I want to show my opponents my pass game or pass defense? I know, I know, they will see it on tape anyways, but it doesn't quite work like that with us and our complicated coverages/blitzes, etc. 6) The dang tournaments are too long. 4 pool play games and then a tournament? While it is 95 degrees? Jeez. 7) Competition. I do agree that getting kids to compete is a good thing. Which is EXACTLY why I don't want to do 7 on 7. I am not going to give them the best chance to compete to win. We aren't going to practice for it or have the right defenses or right offense. So that is counter productive. 8) I once got wrapped up in it at the moment and did the bs running back completion for a first down right over the center for a 1 yard game. 9) We already ask enough of these kids all summer. IMO the injuries are the biggest deterrent... For those concerned about injuries, do you throw pass routes against your own defense after workouts during the summer? |
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Post by tog on Jul 24, 2022 11:35:45 GMT -6
We went to a tournament in the spring, one of the rules was that your TE couldn't line up "inside the tackle box". Watched one coach lose his crap on the ref because the other teams off-the-line H back type guy was right next to the ball but in the backfield. He kept screaming at the ref that it was illegal because the guy was a TE. Best part was the ref was a real d!ck back to him explaining the difference between the backfield and the LOS and what "tight end" means. Something to the effect of "pick up a rulebook, learn what 'end' means and then let's talk.'" off the ball, put wherever you want |
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Post by jg78 on Jul 24, 2022 12:21:45 GMT -6
One of the frustrating things for me (being a 3-4 coach) is I really needed eight players to run our scheme the way we would in a game.
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Post by 33coach on Jul 24, 2022 12:34:38 GMT -6
One of the frustrating things for me (being a 3-4 coach) is I really needed eight players to run our scheme the way we would in a game. i need 11  |
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Post by jg78 on Jul 24, 2022 13:13:06 GMT -6
One of the frustrating things for me (being a 3-4 coach) is I really needed eight players to run our scheme the way we would in a game. i need 11 Ha! Well, the DL would be nice to have in 7 on 7 but as far as pass coverage is concerned I need at least eight. I think the “ideal” situation if your offensive or defensive scheme doesn’t translate well to 7 on 7 is to have enough athletes on your team that you can run an effective pass skeleton at home and adjust it how you see fit. Or do so with a like-minded coach from another school who isn’t treating it like it’s the Super Bowl. |
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Post by wingtol on Jul 26, 2022 7:20:13 GMT -6
We went to a tournament in the spring, one of the rules was that your TE couldn't line up "inside the tackle box". Watched one coach lose his crap on the ref because the other teams off-the-line H back type guy was right next to the ball but in the backfield. He kept screaming at the ref that it was illegal because the guy was a TE. Best part was the ref was a real d!ck back to him explaining the difference between the backfield and the LOS and what "tight end" means. Something to the effect of "pick up a rulebook, learn what 'end' means and then let's talk.'" off the ball, put wherever you want Agree. But....have them run routes realistically. Don't put the sniffer back behind a guard spot and run a streak from there. |
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Post by wingtol on Jul 26, 2022 7:26:09 GMT -6
 We were wing-t (not caching HS this year after 25 years to coach son's MS team, which could be an entire thread on itself!) and never did any 7-7 tournaments. We would do them with teams who had likeminded coaches, as in they would run their real offense and real defense as would we. Those were great. Do 10 plays and then switch. Guys didn't care if you coached your guys up or had them line stuff up again and all that. That's when you get some good work and learning in. Get the sticks out if you want and work on that stuff if you want. I had a great picture to add, but it won't let me  |
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Post by irishdog on Jul 26, 2022 9:24:13 GMT -6
We were wing-t (not caching HS this year after 25 years to coach son's MS team, which could be an entire thread on itself!) and never did any 7-7 tournaments. We would do them with teams who had likeminded coaches, as in they would run their real offense and real defense as would we. Those were great. Do 10 plays and then switch. Guys didn't care if you coached your guys up or had them line stuff up again and all that. That's when you get some good work and learning in. Get the sticks out if you want and work on that stuff if you want. I had a great picture to add, but it won't let me Couldn't agree more. The summer 7 on 7 "league" we took part in was run that way. A couple of the larger schools with true spread offenses opted out after a year, but the remaining 4 schools stuck around because the format was very conducive to teaching as well as providing some competition. |
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Post by tog on Jul 26, 2022 17:34:46 GMT -6
off the ball, put wherever you want Agree. But....have them run routes realistically. Don't put the sniffer back behind a guard spot and run a streak from there. we put them 2x1 off the tackle or te and had them run option routes off of the mlbs |
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Post by coachdubyah on May 18, 2023 7:48:44 GMT -6
This is old, but we're back to this part of the year again.
I recently be-friended an older gentleman that retired from coaching about 8 years ago. He was an Option guy. Ran Flexbone and Wing bone but the last few years he coached he decided to try and have fun during the 7 on 7 months instead of plodding along trying to "run his offense" here are some things that he did and in his words "I really enjoyed the last few years of my career during the summer and so did the kids". He coached in Texas so 7 on 7 was/is a big deal.
1. Treat 7 on 7 differently than real football...Work ALL skill players, every one of them!!! Leave the Linebackers and "bigger Tight Ends" in the Weight Room. Both Offense and Defense. Linebackers need to be down hill, 7 on 7 doesn't help with that. So Don't bother polluting them with not being downhill. If you have a kid that's a pretty good athlete he can play. Put all DB's in on defense. Regardless of their position. Let them play in space. (I think there some merit to this...gets more kids involved...Good, Bad, or Ugly)
1b. Same on Offense. Get 5 out in the routes and/or go Empty. All the Time. Teach easy route combos (Control the Monster...You don't need much). Have ways to be Cover 3, 4, 2, man Free, and 0. About 8 core plays is what he used. He was big on really teaching his Route Tree. Thats the main goal on Offense...TEACH THE ROUTES!!! Package them together to make concepts that beat each of those coverages. Again, Control the monster. Have a clear defined system for getting the qb thru progressions. He did use ALOT of Quick Game.
2. Have some "7 on 7" Bullsh!ttery...Look we can all act "holier than thou" and say it's not real football...well it's not so don't treat it that way. He used Air Raid Mesh in the Redzone/Goalline. Same on Defense...Run some Man. Get your kids aggressive.
3. Use Wristbands and Go No Huddle...Again a few concepts put them on a Wristband a let them go. Typically by the 2nd meeting/practice the kids knew it...Another Reason a Route Tree is good. All you have to do is put the Route number on the band. Qb gets entire play. Can do the same on Defense.
4. Build each week, but when they reach their limit ride it out. He played some good talent in Texas and their success gave them confidence going into the season. CONFIDENCE in our players that I can tell you is something that was a big selling point for me. If you get your a$$ handed to you all Summer then the season starts out rough football becomes very cumbersome to teenagers. And they will pack it in. Especially now.
5. I did ask him if he ever ran the stuff in a game and he said the Routes yes...The whole package for an entire game ...No. Stayed in it an entire qtr and made the game competitive once. Key was Qb getting good at getting ball out. It was also good when they saw something was there that they could get the ball to an open player. Favorite thing was to line up in Bone and Shift to it. Real PITA.
*I have some notes some where with more but this guy has been around on some great staffs all over Texas for many years. He glows when he talks about this. He will admit he was as old school as they come and even bashed 7 on 7 for a while. His wife finally got enough and told him either stop b!tching or get out of coaching. You have to do it so make it fun. This is Coaching Guys!!!
**I can honestly say that Ive spent some time really reflecting on my approach to this. The CONFIDENCE thing hit me hard. It's so true.
***Will you be the 1989 Houston Cougars??? No...But it sure as heck makes your summer months a little more enjoyable for the entire program.
This isn't for everyone and some may not see value. But it made me do some soul searching.
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Post by larrymoe on May 18, 2023 8:07:35 GMT -6
You have to do it so make it fun. Why do you "have" to do it? |
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Post by coachdubyah on May 18, 2023 8:09:12 GMT -6
You have to do it so make it fun. Why do you "have" to do it? Some places you do. Especially in bigger schools. The guy was in Texas...so there's that. I know you can go other places, but some people don't have that luxury. |
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Post by larrymoe on May 18, 2023 8:12:38 GMT -6
Why do you "have" to do it? Some places you do. Especially in bigger schools. The guy was in Texas...so there's that. I know you can go other places, but some people don't have that luxury. And what happens if you don't do it? Even in Texas? |
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Post by coachdubyah on May 18, 2023 8:13:43 GMT -6
Some places you do. Especially in bigger schools. The guy was in Texas...so there's that. I know you can go other places, but some people don't have that luxury. And what happens if you don't do it? Even in Texas? They probably won't let you be the Head Coach. |
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Post by larrymoe on May 18, 2023 8:15:23 GMT -6
And what happens if you don't do it? Even in Texas? They probably won't let you be the Head Coach. So, you've been a successful HC for a few years and you stop doing 7on7s they're going to fire you? |
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Post by coachdubyah on May 18, 2023 8:17:05 GMT -6
They probably won't let you be the Head Coach. So, you've been a successful HC for a few years and you stop doing 7on7s they're going to fire you? I don't know...I was just offering up some new found advice I thought someone would find valuable/interesting. |
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Post by 3rdandlong on May 18, 2023 9:41:12 GMT -6
IMO, most of the benefits that 7 on 7 offer are not actually related to the schemes or techniques of football, but more along the lines of competing, team togetherness, conditioning, etc.
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Post by CS on May 18, 2023 9:44:52 GMT -6
So, you've been a successful HC for a few years and you stop doing 7on7s they're going to fire you? I don't know...I was just offering up some new found advice I thought someone would find valuable/interesting. Could be a double edged sword.May be a way to keep parents off your back in some places or a way for you to open the door for more criticism if you're good in 7 on 7 and bad playing during the season |
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Post by blb on May 18, 2023 10:12:33 GMT -6
As a Running (Veer) coach with Complimentary Passes the main value of summer 7-on-7s was teaching-getting reps on Routes, Patterns, and more than that Coverages (especially against formations different than our own).
Saved us time when practice started in August.
Kids seem to find them fun and there was some camaraderie-bonding built.
We didn't do "tourneys" or competitions (no Saturdays), just in camp(s) or informal get-togethers with neighboring schools and coaches of a similar mindset.
Regardless of how we did in 7-on-7s, we were still 0-0 going into first game.
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Post by fantom on May 18, 2023 10:16:44 GMT -6
Some places you do. Especially in bigger schools. The guy was in Texas...so there's that. I know you can go other places, but some people don't have that luxury. And what happens if you don't do it? Even in Texas? Parents and admins don't think you're "doing enough" and you get fired. In Texas your teaching job may be tied to your coaching job so you don't just lose a stipend you lose your mortgage-paying job. |
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