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Post by 33coach on Aug 9, 2021 13:31:31 GMT -6
the game has to be taught, and thought different. Explain, please. kids aren't who they were 10 years ago or even more. you cant push them the same way that we were all pushed. there are too many options out there now that are easier to do, and success will come instantly. parents aren't who they were either, parents demand involvement and transparency and things traditionally football hasn't had to deal with except when we wanted something. essentially, we are paying for the sins of the past era when kids would be in critical condition and the coach would say "just a stinger". and thats not changing, so we need to adapt to the new world and the way parents and kids think now. |
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Post by M4 on Aug 9, 2021 13:45:18 GMT -6
Some coaches / programs will adapt with the times and changes and succeed, while others will complain about how its not "the good ol days", and probably fail or fall behind.
Regardless of the kids, or parents, or the number of facespace and instatok likes you get, at the end of the season someone will still be handed a championship.
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Post by blb on Aug 9, 2021 13:52:44 GMT -6
kids aren't who they were 10 years ago or even more. you cant push them the same way that we were all pushed. there are too many options out there now that are easier to do, and success will come instantly. parents aren't who they were either, parents demand involvement and transparency and things traditionally football hasn't had to deal with except when we wanted something. essentially, we are paying for the sins of the past era when kids would be in critical condition and the coach would say "just a stinger". and thats not changing, so we need to adapt to the new world and the way parents and kids think now. So then how are you teaching the game differently? |
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Post by 33coach on Aug 9, 2021 14:02:15 GMT -6
kids aren't who they were 10 years ago or even more. you cant push them the same way that we were all pushed. there are too many options out there now that are easier to do, and success will come instantly. parents aren't who they were either, parents demand involvement and transparency and things traditionally football hasn't had to deal with except when we wanted something. essentially, we are paying for the sins of the past era when kids would be in critical condition and the coach would say "just a stinger". and thats not changing, so we need to adapt to the new world and the way parents and kids think now. So then how are you teaching the game differently? in general terms...answering why, listening, making drills more about actual football movements and less about "because its hard"...using all the soft skills that apply to our normal day jobs...but on the football field. the days of the hardnosed football coach still getting 100 kids are done (at least in 48 of the 50 states). |
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Post by M4 on Aug 9, 2021 14:19:23 GMT -6
kids aren't who they were 10 years ago or even more. you cant push them the same way that we were all pushed. there are too many options out there now that are easier to do, and success will come instantly. parents aren't who they were either, parents demand involvement and transparency and things traditionally football hasn't had to deal with except when we wanted something. essentially, we are paying for the sins of the past era when kids would be in critical condition and the coach would say "just a stinger". and thats not changing, so we need to adapt to the new world and the way parents and kids think now. So then how are you teaching the game differently? a few exapmples: less contact in practice safer contact more controlled contact drills explaining the rational behind thing vs "because i said so" using technology to improve efficiency of meetings, film review, etc more awareness of injury prevention, reaction and repair hydration more attention to rest time and work to rest ratio vs beating up people via 2 a days for 2 weeks understanding that if you {censored} on people now a days, they may walk, dictatorships are pretty much gone at this point obviously concussion awareness in all its facets of the game drill work has advanced greatly in my opinion since when i played, for coaches who choose to educate and develop themselves, people are using things other sports have had success with in football training eliminating old practices like ridiculing kids, certain phrasing of words that may have historically been used to describe poor performance are now replaced (sexual or derogatory terms used by old school coaches of past) |
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Post by morris on Aug 9, 2021 15:12:25 GMT -6
We will hit about 40 players 9-12. Enrollment is a little over 1k with roughly 516 males. Percentage of quality players is really good but one injury and you get a domino affect.
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Post by agap on Aug 9, 2021 16:00:06 GMT -6
All sports are losing athletes around here. I’d say other sports have had to cut lower levels quicker than football. It’s not just football.
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Post by tog on Aug 9, 2021 16:40:41 GMT -6
the game has to be taught, and thought different. Explain, please. yeah let's hear it |
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nndman
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Post by nndman on Aug 9, 2021 18:38:04 GMT -6
Thanks for all the input on this topic. I agree that the kids who would be decent backups are not coming out. You have your starters and a big drop off in talent from your reserve pool. Team in my area (small school classification) that won a state title in 2009 had just two kids go both ways that season, and this year it will probably be 7-9.
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Post by wolverine55 on Aug 9, 2021 19:20:29 GMT -6
Tomorrow is our first day and honestly we'll have anywhere between 45-60. We're a school of about 550. That may seem a wide range but our incoming freshmen have been all over the place with summer attendance. Also, for whatever reason, we'll have 1-2 kids that haven't missed anything over the summer decide not to play when August hits and then conversely, we'll have a few who attended nothing over the summer decide to play. Yes, I quoted myself... We had right at 45, but two kids either forgot or "forgot" to tell their bosses the needed their work schedules changed and should be at practices the rest of the week. An incoming freshman and his family are on vacation this week. At least two others that I think are playing, but not sure why they weren't at practice today. |
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Post by wingtol on Aug 9, 2021 20:55:57 GMT -6
How big is your school? I don't think the game will die, it's just changing where it will be able to be played. We have a lot of hockey in our city, big facility with two rinks just opened and we are like 2 hours from Canadian border so there are a lot of hockey people around. I say that because people say this myth about the Canadian farm boys playing on frozen rinks and making it to the NHL is dead. The amount of money it takes to play hockey now is absurd! Equipment, ice time, team fees, skating coaching, shooting coach, travel, etc.... They say if Wayne Gretzky was a kid in this era with the same family background he came from he probably never would have made it because thy couldn't afford it! Now I don't think money will kill football in a direct way but with in a decade it's going to be a big school sport. Most small schools are in areas where people struggle because there is a smaller population and lack of jobs. Kids are forced to do more to help or do not have the support at home that pushes them to play. And people have said it's a hard game, it is. With so much other things going on now and the time commitment it takes to play now I can see why the marginal kids are like "ehhhhh f' this" leaving just your truly dedicated players and then not much else behind them. That's the big issue it's not your true number, it's how many you can put on the field and not close your eyes or pray for their safety!!! Maybe I'm rambling but as someone who has coached in smaller school for quite awhile now there is no doubt the game is in trouble at small schools, we just had two traditional powers have to co-op a week ago to survive. Now lets add in how hard it is to get coaches any more...hey man want to coach? Okay here do this 6 hour course on coaching theory, another on concussions, cardiac, and covid, alos get these clearances for 100.00, and we need 50 bucks for a polo cause the school doesn't pay for that. Oh and you can split a 1000.00 JV check..... If anyone made it this far sorry for the rant but small school football is in trouble. we are ~350 pop and have 70 in the football program. youth program has about 50 in it from 6th - 8th grade. the game has to be taught, and thought different. Good to hear. Those are great numbers for a school that size |
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Post by realdawg on Aug 10, 2021 4:54:58 GMT -6
Yep....if thats the key....I want it.....what and how do we need to teach it different?
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Post by blb on Aug 10, 2021 7:35:16 GMT -6
Reading over this thread a lot of the reasons for lower participation have been given.
Some are peculiar to specific situation(s), some are universal.
One that has not been mentioned is the decline in HS enrollments. Our state is down ~14% over the last decade-plus meaning there are simply less kids available to play and not just Football.
All of these have created a kind of "perfect storm" affecting turnouts.
If it were just one or two things we as coaches could probably effectively counter them.
But it's not and as has been noted there are differences between small-big schools, urban-suburban-rural, etc.
The one thing we can control is the off-season commitment we ask from kids. If wanting them to do Football virtually year-round costs you numbers because some aren't willing to work that hard just to sit the bench, isn't that counter-productive?
Each coach will have to answer that for himself and evaluate his Off-Season "requirements."
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Post by mrjvi on Aug 10, 2021 9:46:49 GMT -6
blb brings up a good point. Our small school had 130-140 graduating 30 years ago-even 20. This year there were 80. PLUS soccer was added 9 years ago so now there are 4 or really 5 sports. Too many for a small school. If you assume 1/2 are girls and 1/2 will not do a sport and half of them will do another sport you end up with @ 10 available each grade unless you can get the do nothings to play.
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Post by wingtol on Aug 10, 2021 10:15:12 GMT -6
blb brings up a good point. Our small school had 130-140 graduating 30 years ago-even 20. This year there were 80. PLUS soccer was added 9 years ago so now there are 4 or really 5 sports. Too many for a small school. If you assume 1/2 are girls and 1/2 will not do a sport and half of them will do another sport you end up with @ 10 available each grade unless you can get the do nothings to play. I think the school graduated 60 where we are now. And offers Football, Soccer, Golf, Cross Country, Band all in the fall oh and they started some kind of E Sports team as well..... Just saw a post that said PA had 586 teams 10 years ago. This season there are 556. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 11:54:26 GMT -6
To me, The profession can no longer act as though the kids need us cause they dont.
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Post by 60zgo on Aug 10, 2021 11:58:41 GMT -6
Down for sure. Program usually averages 45 and we are looking at 28 Varsity players this year and the future pipeline looks similar, maybe a little worse. I can't see football as being very viable at my current school in four years.
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Post by tog on Aug 10, 2021 12:04:31 GMT -6
To me, The profession can no longer act as though the kids need us cause they dont. ahhh but they do they may not know it because they are from a screwed up culture that wants everything right now they DO need us. |
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Post by 33coach on Aug 10, 2021 12:34:23 GMT -6
To me, The profession can no longer act as though the kids need us cause they dont. ahhh but they do they may not know it because they are from a screwed up culture that wants everything right now they DO need us. they do, but now they dont have to choose us. we are competing for their time.... year round baseball is calling... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 12:37:56 GMT -6
To me, The profession can no longer act as though the kids need us cause they dont. ahhh but they do they may not know it because they are from a screwed up culture that wants everything right now they DO need us. the declining numbers prove your point. |
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Post by nicku on Aug 10, 2021 16:45:25 GMT -6
Seems like a lot of bitchin and longing about days of yesteryear...
Do we want a bunch of kids that don't want to be out there in the first place, anyway?
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Post by blb on Aug 10, 2021 17:09:56 GMT -6
Seems like a lot of bitchin and longing about days of yesteryear... Do we want a bunch of kids that don't want to be out there in the first place, anyway? Maybe some of those kids - the ones for whom Football may not be their favorite sport - WOULD want to be out there if they didn't have to do it 12 months out of the year. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 17:42:00 GMT -6
Or minus the 4 hrs lifting weights, and practice, team meetings. Then all the stuff nobody, including coaches sign up for morality speech, bible study, book study, leadership, community involvement.
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Post by nicku on Aug 10, 2021 18:13:25 GMT -6
Seems like a lot of bitchin and longing about days of yesteryear... Do we want a bunch of kids that don't want to be out there in the first place, anyway? Maybe some of those kids - the ones for whom Football may not be their favorite sport - WOULD want to be out there if they didn't have to do it 12 months out of the year. Whole-heartedly agree. Go into a coaching staff office in mid June and see how thrilled those guys are to be there. And these are guys that chose this FOR A LIVING. Now imagine how those kids feel. |
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Post by tog on Aug 10, 2021 21:39:16 GMT -6
ahhh but they do they may not know it because they are from a screwed up culture that wants everything right now they DO need us. the declining numbers prove your point. yes they do, the culture is screwed, they need us thanks for playing |
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Post by tog on Aug 10, 2021 21:42:56 GMT -6
ahhh but they do they may not know it because they are from a screwed up culture that wants everything right now they DO need us. they do, but now they dont have to choose us. we are competing for their time.... year round baseball is calling... doesn't mean they don't still need us it just means dumbass parents push their kids into aau bullcrap and year round bullcrap to get a skolllaship and or the kids think the mad hype promo bs is more important than actual effort any which way---it is a screwed up culture that needs the values of football over the values of social media instant gratification hype bs |
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Post by coachsticks on Aug 10, 2021 22:58:43 GMT -6
To piggy back of the last thread what we are missing is quality backups. Those are the types of kids we are seeing not play. We got starters. And we got bench warmers. But that kid who couldn’t start but is a quality backup isn’t playing for us. Too much work and sweat to sit on the bench when he could have a job and make his truck payment. Just what we are seeing The big difference to me is that they have more opportunities in other sports than before. AAU basketball, Travel Soccer, Fall Ball and Lacrosse all provide fall options for kids. I teach in a big suburb with some money- the kids have choices besides backup and scout team. Can’t really say I blame them either. We ask more from them in the spring and summer - and if you are not going to get playing time, but you will in Lax or Fall Ball… it really ain’t a difficult choice. I graduated in 2005. We had three 7 on 7 dates - all on a Monday morning , a 3 day minicamp and then one week of conditioning. Weight room was open every morning and evening for an hour and they expected you to make 3 days a week. Right now we are Monday-Thursday for 3 hours in the evenings. Totally different commitment level. When I played, you weren’t really expected to be there in the summer before your varsity seasons. Now we want rising freshman involved. It’s a tough ask to give up 4 summers to maybe play some special teams as a senior. You skip this post, tog? I played four years of 1A football. In terms of time commitment for players at my past two jobs—similar. In fact, at my most recent stop, we asked more of our high school players. That’s a problem. To me, this has nothing to do with culture. It has everything to do with high school football turning into a full-time job. Instead of blaming it on the current culture, look inward. High school football has changed dramatically in the last decade. Damn near unrecognizable. I say it all the time—if I was growing up now, I don’t think I’d play either. Just my $0.02. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 23:25:59 GMT -6
the declining numbers prove your point. yes they do, the culture is screwed, they need us thanks for playing I get your point. Its not you and i they need, and its not culture that has em screwed up. Figuratively and literally the answer a little closer to home. What culture is telling you is there is something seriously wrong, cause it aint working. I think its true with athletics as well, but i have done that rant. |
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Post by Defcord on Aug 11, 2021 2:38:57 GMT -6
Reading over this thread a lot of the reasons for lower participation have been given. Some are peculiar to specific situation(s), some are universal. One that has not been mentioned is the decline in HS enrollments. Our state is down ~14% over the last decade-plus meaning there are simply less kids available to play and not just Football. All of these have created a kind of "perfect storm" affecting turnouts. If it were just one or two things we as coaches could probably effectively counter them. But it's not and as has been noted there are differences between small-big schools, urban-suburban-rural, etc. The one thing we can control is the off-season commitment we ask from kids. If wanting them to do Football virtually year-round costs you numbers because some aren't willing to work that hard just to sit the bench, isn't that counter-productive? Each coach will have to answer that for himself and evaluate his Off-Season "requirements." I agree wholeheartedly with the off-season statement minus I don’t believe it is the only one thing we have control over. I thinks a major piece in the issue certainly. Kids have to want to play football and we have to build our programs in order to make them want to come back. The off-season workout stuff definitely has had some hinderance to that. |
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Post by Down 'n Out on Aug 11, 2021 3:48:59 GMT -6
Our numbers are down. Numbers for starting tier players are fine and kids just wanting to be on the team are fine, but backups/developmental athletes are few and far between. They'd rather play travel baseball or video games, or whatever. Not saying I blame them for wanting to do the things they're better at(we all try to play to our strengths), I just wish they would put in some work as teenagers and see what they can make of themselves.
We spoke with the entire 8th grade the other day trying to drum up some players and responses were "I'm too fat for football", "are you kidding? I'm too small" and "I'm just not athletic". granted those kids were small, chubby, and unathletic but that can all be changed to some extent and they won't even try. I guess that's the most difficult thing for me to accept.
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