|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 16, 2021 10:25:02 GMT -6
There are "deal-breakers" here as well: the main one being a lack of communication. It is SO important that we stress this almost ABOVE ALL ELSE! If a kid is going to be late, and they send a message to us prior to being late, then we deal with it. NO COMMUNICATION tells me that the team is not one of your priorities and is plainly disrespectful to your teammates. Both of these scenarios would be treated differently. I think this is such a great point in all aspects of life. I probably try to overcommunicate to the point where it is borderline handholding/aggravating. I really think you hit the nail on the head by describing lack of communication as an indication that someone is not a priority and is disrespectful.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 11, 2021 17:07:04 GMT -6
Someone on here recently talked about how it bothers them that they are expected to be a freaking pastor-figure to their team. I personally believe that outside of the football coaching part, coaching is pretty much what you choose to make it. If you want to be a pastor-figure, more power to you. But, if you are there just to coach ball, I think as long as you are a good example and have some basic behavioral expectations, then I don't think you should be expected to do anymore than that. EDIT: That video, good god that $#it gets on my nerves I think the issue I take with this stuff is how it becomes ANOTHER expectation of you to do in the job. I could care less if people do this stupid {censored}, but eventually someone mimics it. Then your kids, parents or admins see it and ask or expect you to do it. When you don't you're an a-hole and it just adds another twig to the fire that constantly is burning under your feet. Agreed. "Oh look, that's cool. Let's do it". If it isn't something that is organic or comes naturally from your program, it just becomes a tremendous pain in the butt I would imagine.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 9, 2021 14:12:17 GMT -6
No. I think the idea is to get the religious stuff out of the way so that he can get another job. That is probably part of it. As a coach/educator/taxpayer/person with a history of involvement in school related athletics, I thought that this entire thing was misguided in the first place. The religious issue should have been secondary, BUT that was the salacious part. The idea that he was trying to haze/humiliate that student to motivate him should have been all that is necessary to relieve him of duties. That said, I would probably take similar measures if I were the coach and had done this, because I honestly do not believe the religious aspect had ANYTHING to do with it. The media angle and story however reads much differently though. The take away from this in our headline only society is that this football coach, in order to punish a player, enacted a plan to purposely try to violate his religious tenants. I don't believe that was the case.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 9, 2021 6:40:58 GMT -6
Have you tried Oklahoma drills in the parking lot? Is this irony? Hello Coach. Sorry I am just seeing this thread. I am not sure what the coach was trying to say here either- given that your situation is not the typical one, I don't sure why a sarcastic reply came from him. As far as trying to keep your kids interested, I can see that as a completely different challenge than here in the United States since our citizens are bombarded with football and it is by far the most popular sport. Maybe a series of mini camps (like the NFL does every year- currently happening now) might help. 2-3 days of refresher training focusing on individual skill development might help.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 8, 2021 9:13:12 GMT -6
So isn’t a natural follow up question: why do coaches do that to themselves? Why is coaching HS football 6 days a week, with summer 7 on 7s and team camps? Ego…it’s not a lot of fun to get your asss kicked. The mentality is usually “if the winners are doing it then we better do it too.” I would be interested to see if some of powerhouses would start winning big using more reasonable off season programs/setups, if it would trickle down the competitive ladder. I am not sure it would as many coaches would say something along the lines of “this is our edge, why they are taking a break we are grinding.” Who knows…I also worked with a guy that hated his wife so he volunteered to do any job that would get him out of the house. That man begged to do laundry. We could’ve went to three a days and he would’ve rejoices. Isn’t that where state associations can/should step in. I suppose it is a slippery slope. If A coach wants to “gain and advantage “ by grinding his/her life away i suppose I believe they should be able. Not sure what side of the fence I am on regarding this one. But I definitely think it is ridiculous
|
|
|
Coaching
Jun 8, 2021 9:09:43 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 8, 2021 9:09:43 GMT -6
In my area yes. Zoned schools exist but the rules allow for finagling. Private schools is an arms race to who can get more football players in the building. Some. Not all. Don’t paint with such a wide brush. I would argue that the disparity between private school athletic emphasis is similar to the differences in culture and emphasis you see in public schools as well.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 8, 2021 8:46:08 GMT -6
I'm in Raleigh, NC. A good amount of turnover but I think about the same as usual. This will be year 2 away from football for me unless there's some drastic change over the summer. I'm in a better place mentally, physically and emotionally than ever before. Teaching is hard enough to add in coaching 6 days a week and getting no concessions at my teaching job for doing so. Stipends are hilariously bad. I get paid more to blog once a week than most guys get to coach 50 weeks a year. On top of that, for $3K do I really want to give up my weekends, my personal workout time, eating better, reading more, and coming to my actual job feeling better and with more energy? I love the S&C portion, but 7on7, team camp, weekends arguing over if it's 2 or 2 read & squinting to see the Zapruder Film of the upcoming opponent = turnoffs. I miss the players, but that's why I'm trying to get an S&C/personal training b'ness going on the side. Charging just enough to cover the LLC, insurance and football stipend. With what I charge I only need 10 clients to try my service for 10 weeks to cover it all. Home gym in my basement with no overhead and a park across the street for speed work. So isn’t a natural follow up question: why do coaches do that to themselves? Why is coaching HS football 6 days a week, with summer 7 on 7s and team camps?
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 4, 2021 12:01:22 GMT -6
Not that it really matters, I'm fully on board with this being really dumb even with no religious component,
but the phrasing on the ESPN version of this story is a tad subtle,
"The player and his family are a members of the Hebrew Israelite religious faith",
If I throw 'Hebrew Israelite' into google, it only brings back results for 'Black Hebrew Israelite',
Who knows how well the coach knew this kid or his family (could really be all over the spectrum), it's possible he had no idea what this kid's religious beliefs were prior to the kid saying 'I don't eat pork'
The attorney for the fired head coach is claiming that the whole situation has been blown out of proportion and this was nothing more than a coach trying to motivate a recalcitant player: www.wkyc.com/article/sports/high-school/hs-football/canton-school-board-meeting-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches/95-a52164d7-9453-4b22-880f-f0f15ae378b5 That is why I have said I am glad there was the pork/religious issue. I agree that very likely the situation was indeed blown out of proportion with regards to religious persecution.That should not matter
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 4, 2021 11:25:33 GMT -6
Absolutely. My concern is that even if the student was not Jewish, or if he was but they knew he ate pork all the time (even if it was against his tenants) and he was just using that as a "f you, I won't do it and you can't make me" thing the idea that they were going to humiliate a student for missing a voluntary work out should be grounds for firing. I am concerned that the religious aspects are going to dominate the headlines, and in my opinion that should not matter one bit. If the entire story was simply the coaches made a kid eat a pizza while they (and team mates) berated him because the kid missed a voluntary work out, the results should still be the same.
Not that it really matters, I'm fully on board with this being really dumb even with no religious component,
but the phrasing on the ESPN version of this story is a tad subtle,
"The player and his family are a members of the Hebrew Israelite religious faith",
If I throw 'Hebrew Israelite' into google, it only brings back results for 'Black Hebrew Israelite',
Who knows how well the coach knew this kid or his family (could really be all over the spectrum), it's possible he had no idea what this kid's religious beliefs were prior to the kid saying 'I don't eat pork'
I have seen reports where the student was given the option to eat chicken nuggets instead and chose to take the pork off the pizza. Which actually makes me feel a little bit better because that might mean that the coaches were being disciplined for the bullying and not simply the religious aspect
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 4, 2021 9:12:19 GMT -6
I don't believe they did it because of religion, but more than one article I read said the kid told them numerous times that he could not eat it for religious reasons. Now, maybe they don't do pre-game meals, etc, but if you do any thing at all where you are feeding kids (even if it's pizza), you gotta know your team well enough to know which kids have religious restrictions. For example, I know not to try to take my Muslim players to a pig pickin' . These guys just didn't care. This wasn't coaching, this was about humiliation. Maybe they wouldn't have gotten fired if religion hadn't come into play---but the kid told them. If there was no religious issue, I think we're on the same page that it was still a very stupid thing to do. Whether or not they got fired over it in that circumstance would probably depend on a lot of other factors (previous incidents, for example), but they would at least be told anything else and they're out the door. Agreed. While the pizza-eating was a terrible idea from the start, as soon as the kid said, "My religion prohibits me from eating that", it should have been immediately shut down. The fact that none of these dopes realized they had gone WAY over the line is disturbing. Absolutely. My concern is that even if the student was not Jewish, or if he was but they knew he ate pork all the time (even if it was against his tenants) and he was just using that as a "f you, I won't do it and you can't make me" thing the idea that they were going to humiliate a student for missing a voluntary work out should be grounds for firing. I am concerned that the religious aspects are going to dominate the headlines, and in my opinion that should not matter one bit. If the entire story was simply the coaches made a kid eat a pizza while they (and team mates) berated him because the kid missed a voluntary work out, the results should still be the same.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 4, 2021 7:41:36 GMT -6
I think such things are more apt to happen when you have coaches who are not trained, professional educators such as the McKinley HC. I suspect some if not most of his assistants aren't teachers, either. Not that trained professional educators can't do stupid stuff, but it has been my experience that they are much more aware of where the boundaries need to be. I also think that the word "professional" comes into play. There are coaches out there, including HCs and including HCs who win lots of games who really don't treat the job as a profession--their concern is more wrapped around ego and anything in order to win. I seem to be seeing a whole lot more of the "Friday Night Tykes" type coaches moving into high school coaching, especially as it becomes more and more difficult to fill coaching spots with educators as more and more educators leave the profession. I'm wondering how many of the 8 involved here are actually educators and not "hired guns". Again, don't know what's going on in your states, but I'm seeing lots of hires connected to recruiting. I agree. Given that the HC was not a certificated faculty member (based on his now deleted bio) I am curious how many, if any, were. Spending a few minutes using online search engines, It looks like all spend a great deal of time posting on twitter (which would disqualify them if I were king of the world LOL). One seems to be quite fond of John Cena, so there is that. I found that one had a linked in profile saying he was a PE teacher at St. Thomas Aquinas through March of 2018 (while also stating he was coaching at Mckinley since 2017 and was OC/qb coach). Another has a zoom info page that says he is "Safety and Security". (Not director of, not head of...it states he is "safety and security". His twitter acct says he is the Director of Player Personnel and Linebacker coach. Also of note, apparently Wattley (the HC) was the 4th HC of this program in the last 8 years or so. This seems to support the idea that when football is no longer an extra curricular extension of the school, but instead its own entity and a source for other people to try define themselves by the accomplishments of others...it can lead to foolish outcomes. As I mentioned earlier, my biggest concern is that had this not been a non kosher pizza, had there not been any religious issues involved here, this would not have had the same outcome. I think that is 100% wrong. The religious issue is what is driving the stories, as the headlines can lead readers /viewers to think that the primary action here was coaches persecuting a religion. I do not believe that was the case at all. That was just happenstance.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 3, 2021 21:15:13 GMT -6
So, taking the pork/religion out of it--should the staff have been fired just for berating and humiliating a student for missing a voluntary work out?
I say yes.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 3, 2021 13:04:37 GMT -6
I don't know many teenage boys who would consider eating a whole pizza to be punishment.
The article said that the kid thought that the pizza appeared to be "spoiled". That said, I'm in agreement, I know most football players would be fine with eating a day old pizza. And the linemen would pretty much without exception consider it punishment if they were not allowed to eat it.
"spoiled" as in having been tainted by the non kosher products throughout the pizza right? I am 99% sure that this was not a case of "Hey, lets punish the Jewish kid with something specifically designed to violate his religious tenants" It probably went down like the scene from Full Metal Jacket with Private Pyle and the Donut. The kid missed, and the coaches were going to try some foolish reverse peer pressure punishment--but then the kid made a fool of all of them and said "Coach, can't eat this- non kosher foods" which probably enraged the coaches a bit. And I am pretty sure that there may be some other issues at play too (maybe the kid was habitually missing, maybe the kid had an attitude etc. that led to the bizarre decision to do this.) But that doesn't really matter here any more than it matters if a drunk driver didn't mean to kill a family while driving under the influence. They still did.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 3, 2021 11:31:04 GMT -6
Splitting hairs a little, and either way it was stupid, but was the punishment to eat an entire pizza or to eat pork? It's the difference between being a staff of idiots and a staff of idiots that violated someone's civil rights I believe it was the first-- seemed like a "Private Pyle eating a donut" type of punishment for missing a voluntary work out according to a news article.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 3, 2021 11:19:45 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 3, 2021 8:35:17 GMT -6
I am sure some ACs thought if they intervened they could be found disloyal. Now, is that just a friendly jab based on our back in forth in another thread. Sure. BUT, that doesn't mean there isn't truth to it either. They might have....maybe it fits your definition. In my view, saying to the HC "whoa, coach, step back---this is going to get us all in trouble" IS being loyal...assistants need to protect the program. An assistant that allows a HC to step on a landmine is doing a disservice, which is another reason you keep loyal people around--they'll protect you from even yourself. That's part of why I'd like to know the rest of the circumstances---to understand what was going on with both the HC and the assistants for it to go this far. If I said to my guys "I'm going to make this kid eat this pizza" they would have said "let's take a step back and think about this, coach". Things may happen spur of the moment nobody has a chance to step in before it's too late, but my top guys know part of their job is to keep me off the landmines. I know not all HCs operate that way, but IMO they should. Sure. And another guy might tell anyone who said that "GTF out of here" And when any trouble came from it, that coach would instantly be labeled the traitor, be accused of being the one who reported it, potentially blackballed in the local coaching community etc.....
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 3, 2021 8:00:10 GMT -6
I've seen and heard of stupid stuff before, but that one is right at the top. The thing I'd like to hear is WHY they made the kid eat the pizza---just curious to see what prompted such an idiotic move on the part of the coaches? Was this spur of the moment by the HC, or was there discussion among all coaches...did the assistants know it was going to happen before it happened?....did they have an opportunity to intervene?...It sounds like they did Nothing excuses this kind of behavior----but I'm interested in knowing more details to help explain this level of stupidity on the part of an entire group of coaches. I am sure some ACs thought if they intervened they could be found disloyal. Now, is that just a friendly jab based on our back in forth in another thread. Sure. BUT, that doesn't mean there isn't truth to it either.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 2, 2021 19:23:58 GMT -6
If we could get 5 pct of the STUDS walking around our campus who are just inelgible, we would have won a couple of state titles already. We easily have 100 kids, any of whom who’m would start right now, walking our hall ways who have no chance to be eligible EVER. You know the kicker to that is and the crime? WOW, really? I worked at some pretty rough places, literally a school in the city deemed "worst in the state of California". Didn't have many kids who I felt would contribute that were ineligible. Thats not doubting you, just shocked to read. No, you should doubt. You should totally doubt the estimations and evaluation of those "studs" talents.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 2, 2021 16:02:43 GMT -6
On a side note, we were scheduled to go to a SEC school for 7 on 7 this Saturday (June 5) Last week they contacted us and asked if we would change and come next Thursday (June 10) because there were only 2 HS signed up to come. This actually could be a good sign of things to come. At least from the perspective of those that think all the year long training, and summer off campus activities are the wrong direction.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 2, 2021 15:59:35 GMT -6
Exactly. If you read Hollers statement on why he started it was to keep kids in track over the "easier" baseball. From his statement- My teams would be under-trained, but we would win because of our superior talent and our love of the sport. I don't think Holler's approach is inherently wrong. Doesn't the most important part of this particular discussion then become "what is trained vs undertrained". I think one could easily envision a FB coach saying the same thing... meaning he wasn't going 5 days a week 3 hours a day in the summer.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 2, 2021 7:33:14 GMT -6
I would think that the 'finding' talent phrasing is more in relation to sorting out what each kid does best and letting them specialize in that, as opposed to just playing a kid somewhere because you think he should play there. For example, you have a kid who is an absolute rocket of an athlete, crazy speed and agility (you think damn this kid should play slot wr) well it turns out he cant catch even catch a cold. so instead of making him run routes with the hopes he might catch a ball you realize he is great at Jet Sweeps, so you hand him the ball instead. To me that is 'finding' talent, you find out what the kid does best and don't force him to do what he cant. That is how I interpreted the phrase as well. Regardless, I do not agree with the statement. The real essence of coaching is creating an environment in which players are able to reach their potential.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 1, 2021 20:18:19 GMT -6
I coach in Oregon and I have never seen so many HC job openings in my life! Not just programs that struggled, I'm talking programs with a history of winning. I'm guessing it's probably one of two reasons or a combo of both.... 1. Coaching in a world of covid protocols, low numbers added to the everyday stuff a HC deals with was just enough to be the straw that broke the camels back. 2. Coaches got a taste of a shortened season or no season at all and realized, "This is kind of nice seeing my family and doing things I couldn't normally do." What's your state looking like? I think part of it too is the growing issue with parents. If you are a teacher/coach coaching probably creates the vast majority of your issues...and pays you the small minority of your money. Why put your actual bill paying job in jeopardy for a small stipend?
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on May 23, 2021 19:01:48 GMT -6
I would be willing to bet that we are in the weightroom less time than all of y’all, that our program is simpler than all of y’alls, ... But that reads terrible on twitter
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on May 11, 2021 8:22:38 GMT -6
Coach- that doesnt sound very motivational! You need to tell him that everything will be Ok, and if he just wishes on it , Notre Dame will call him up and offer him a full time position!! / sarcasm off For those who didn’t read the “jobs” thread or other breaking into the profession type thread, you probably won’t get the humor here lol I absolutely agree with the above post. What I think many coaches fail to realize is just how competitive the climate is for those “walking down 5-10years of hard road” On this board , every year or two there seems to be a few posters who don’t realize they are NOT special, and that 50 other guys are also looking to get that $3,000 no benefits spot across the country to get their foot in the door. I will just add that the reverse pipeline might be more of the norm. We currently have 3 former college position coaches working on our staff. And I'm not talking about guys who interned for a year after they finished their playing careers to try and figure out their next step. These are guys that spent multiple years working to climb the ladder. One was a DC at a small college. That is usually how the spots open up. Coaches trying to make coaching a “career” (college/pro) but who reach a point where they no longer can live the heavily financially restricted lifestyle drop out of the rat race, opening up spots for the next person trying to get into it
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on May 11, 2021 6:08:22 GMT -6
Agree with the above.... If you are trying to make that jump here is my recommendation.. Find the nearest small college, ask to meet with them to learn as much as you can... Ask to attend practices and after you get a handle let them know you would love to volunteer if they ever have openings.... They will as most small colleges have many entry level positions that have transition you in time may have an opportunity for that or to be a more stable assistant. This gets "college coaching" on the resume and can lead to either a GA opportunity at a larger institution or a full time position in a small school. Keep networking and building contacts and there will be opportunities. You can't worry about money and commit 5-10 years of walking a potential hard road without a lot of say prior to being in the position you might "dream about". The other option for HS guys is being at a school with a bunch of division 1 players that can be potentially swayed with your hiring although I would like to note these types of hires are very rare if the HC isn't a former D1 or NFL player themselves but it does happen.... The Kevin Kelley situation that I think your referring too is EXTREMELY rare.... What other HS coach in the country does Bellichek call.... I wouldn't look at this as a likely scenario if your goal is to get in college ball. Coach- that doesnt sound very motivational! You need to tell him that everything will be Ok, and if he just wishes on it , Notre Dame will call him up and offer him a full time position!! / sarcasm off For those who didn’t read the “jobs” thread or other breaking into the profession type thread, you probably won’t get the humor here lol I absolutely agree with the above post. What I think many coaches fail to realize is just how competitive the climate is for those “walking down 5-10years of hard road” On this board , every year or two there seems to be a few posters who don’t realize they are NOT special, and that 50 other guys are also looking to get that $3,000 no benefits spot across the country to get their foot in the door.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on May 10, 2021 21:51:45 GMT -6
Have an interview later on in the week and was just curious... What do you guys ask the HC in an interview at a new school? Obviously I want to know about the schemes and vision he has for his program. What specifics do you guys ask a HC at an interview to join his staff? Do you need the job? Or are you also kicking the tires around a bit to see if it is a good fit?
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on May 9, 2021 21:17:20 GMT -6
Well, is there a position open? Lots of advertisements on footballscoop.com for unknown applicants. After that, it is contacts and networking. For me, I started as volunteer undergrad asst and networked. Also, as shown in the "jobs" thread as well as NUMEROUS threads that have come before it- I would suggest you really dig into how the landscape of college coaching is set up. That is a good point, the specific school i was talking about was more of a jumping off point for getting into college ball. Also for some reason i just assume new Head Coach means new everything, when that in fact is not the case. Thank you, i totally forgot about footballscoop, i only use it looking at HS Jobs. Well, it may mean "new everything" but he may already have people in mind.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on May 9, 2021 20:19:29 GMT -6
Hello Coaches, For those of you who have had experience as a collegiate coach how did you go about acquiring your position? More specifically how did you go about applying for the job? In todays modern world i imagine alot of applications and initial contacts are made over the phone or through emails and as a result of this who do you apply to (contact initially)? The Head Coach? the AD? the AD's assistant? Recently a coach i admire (from afar) was named as the head coach of a collegiate program and i have always had a desire to become a collegiate coach/work for a college staff and i am just wondering how to go about doing this. Thank you coaches. Well, is there a position open? Lots of advertisements on footballscoop.com for unknown applicants. After that, it is contacts and networking. For me, I started as volunteer undergrad asst and networked. Also, as shown in the "jobs" thread as well as NUMEROUS threads that have come before it- I would suggest you really dig into how the landscape of college coaching is set up.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on May 9, 2021 8:56:47 GMT -6
I don't disagree with the premise of shorter practices, but January-July is for kids shooting jumpers, heading crossers, laying down bunts, stealing bases, launching javelins, jumping hurdles etc. It’s 7 mo. We have them in the building 2 hrs a day 4 days week in the summer now.And that is just football. And they do all that other stuff and work.. this isn’t more time in the building. January-July is not football season, and system/fundamentals should not be the focus of those months. Having quarterback schools, teaching football system/fundamentals in those months tacitly supports the idea that football is first, and also invariably is going to cause some kids to make choices I don't want them to have to make. It is no different than having a Basketball guy saying that March-October is the time that his kids should be working on motion offenses, ball handling and jump shots. Not saying it doesn't happen. I am saying I disagree with that year round premise.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on May 9, 2021 8:05:25 GMT -6
January through July to teach kids the fundies, system. I don't disagree with the premise of shorter practices, but January-July is for kids shooting jumpers, heading crossers, laying down bunts, stealing bases, launching javelins, jumping hurdles etc.
|
|