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Post by newcoryell on Apr 9, 2018 7:57:10 GMT -6
The trainers, 7on7 coaches, street agents are absolutely ruining Texas High School Football. For every one commendable trainer like newcoryell there are 99 criminals. There are kids transferring schools almost daily due to these street agents It's so bad out here...I don't even like being called a "trainer". Because coaches assume that I'm going to bad mouth them and their program and get kids to transfer. Nope. There are some late bloomers and I tell them that the best thing to do is to go to JUCO and smaller schools. In fact, this weekend I was at a "tryout" being held by a JUCO nearby....solid event. Lot of kids complaining about the wind, the cold and the rain while they were doing position drills. Saw some "trainers" that were there complaining about running the 40 in these conditions. Had a few brag about kids running 4.3s and under. I legit asked the trainer....did you prepare him to run REAL routes? His face looked offended and he reiterated his speed. When the coaches said that they would signal what route to run and the DB coach would signal the DB how to play it....it was HILARIOUS. You have never seen so many kids get literally jammed out of a play. I've never seen a 7 on 7 or 1 on 1 where so many kids were shut down. I explained to a few kids that didn't get offered: Work on your skill and not eighteen dance steps before getting into your route. You can tell some of the parents were so disappointed. It was quite sad actually. But the point that needs to be made is that HARD WORK is what is important. At the end of the day, GRIT will overcome a LOT of obstacles in your life than someone blowing sweet nothings in your ear. Like to thank some guys on here for giving me some ideas to talk about when speaking with some coaches.
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Post by aceback76 on Apr 9, 2018 8:25:21 GMT -6
As a coaching community, I believe something can be done. I don’t know what it’s like in your parts but here in Southern California there is an epidemic of con artists disguised as trainers, 7-7 coaches and position experts who claim to be responsible for their athletes receiving scholarships. They mislead parents about knowledge of the process, their kids’ abilities and how their high school coach should be doing his job and in turn finesse parents out of money. Parents buy these clowns’ acts hook, line and sinker. After all they’re paying them and they have a really cool instagram with pictures of NFL players they supposedly trained. Based off of conversations the staff has had with kid and parent, it seems like once again a returning starter is transferring because him and his parents think that he's not playing the right position and it's the reason he's not being offered a scholarship. He's been a great kid the last three years, a serviceable (but not great) 3 tech and occasional 5 tech vs power teams, and for the most part a pleasant kid to coach. However, he has about a 2.5 GPA, and ran a 5.2 in testing 2 weeks ago. Him and his dad insist that he's a linebacker and fullback (even though we run a spread) and that their trainer agrees and thinks in order to get a scholarship, he needs to play those positions. When asked who his trainer was, dad showed us a social media account of videos of kids doing cones and ladders with rap music playing and a list of clients that included Derek Carr, the St. Brown brothers, Jamaal Williams, etc. No testimonials or pictures with any of said guys of course. A lot of the younger kids that he can verify he did train have transferred schools, I'm assuming because of his influence. Guy also claims he played at USC, of course when we googled his name, nothing came up. This is not an isolated incident. Last year a 7-7 guru told a group of our parents and his customers that their kids need to go play at his fellow 7-7 guru's school in order to win a championship and the year prior another 7-7 guy told one of our all-league D lineman (who literally couldn't squat parallel or do drive-crossover-drive agilities) that he's a DB and as a staff we had him out of position. All kids transferred with predictable results. Guys like this are bad for business. They make coaches' jobs even harder, they fleece parents out of their hard-earned money, and worst of all, they lie to kids. What do you think a realistic sollution is? I do not believe it is crazy to assert that all coaches, trainers, etc need to obtain some type of a certification from USA Football. In turn as high school coaches, we can emphasize to our kids and parents that if they wish to seek outside training, it will be in their best interest to make sure they retain a trainer whom is certified by USA Football. What are your guys' thoughts on the potential of adopting such certifications? Use only CERTIFIED TRAINERS (& check out their certification). They must work WITH Sports Medicine Doctor Groups. Treatments are in the facilities of the Sports Medicine Doctors.l The ones we have used are: 1. VCU Health's Sports Medicine Clinic treats all patients with the same quality care we provide university and professional athletes. Our vast array of athletic injury care and specialties include: Sports medicine, hip and knee arthroscopy Anatomic single and double-bundle ACL reconstructions Meniscus repair and transplantation Complex knee and shoulder ligament reconstruction Ankle arthroscopy Rotator cuff repairs Cartilage restoration Compartment syndrome evaluations Arthroscopic shoulder stabilization We also offer on-site physical therapy. 2. HCA Virginia Sports Medicine 5.0 Rating Sports medicine clinic in Chesterfield County, Virginia
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Post by junior6589 on Apr 9, 2018 8:26:30 GMT -6
I think the 7 on 7 stuff, in general, is really what the root of the issue is. I know that our game is trending towards being basically a 7 on 7 league with pads and linemen, but there has become an overemphasis on the 7 on 7 leagues.
In my state anyway, they are totally unregulated. Which helps to create the existence of these "camps" and "special teams". Which creates the "guru".
We're lucky enough to have the ability, and the group of kids, that will show up during June and July to workouts with the team. To do the lifting and conditioning and the fundamental work. Then a little 7 on 7 stuff in the last half hour for the skill guys. But we really limited the number of tournaments we entered last year. It just became too much (and too much of an injury risk).
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Post by blb on Apr 9, 2018 10:57:25 GMT -6
Use only CERTIFIED TRAINERS (& check out their certification). They must work WITH Sports Medicine Doctor Groups. Treatments are in the facilities of the Sports Medicine Doctors.l The ones we have used are: 1. VCU Health's Sports Medicine Clinic treats all patients with the same quality care we provide university and professional athletes. Our vast array of athletic injury care and specialties include: Sports medicine, hip and knee arthroscopy Anatomic single and double-bundle ACL reconstructions Meniscus repair and transplantation Complex knee and shoulder ligament reconstruction Ankle arthroscopy Rotator cuff repairs Cartilage restoration Compartment syndrome evaluations Arthroscopic shoulder stabilization We also offer on-site physical therapy. 2. HCA Virginia Sports Medicine 5.0 Rating Sports medicine clinic in Chesterfield County, Virginia That is not the kind of "trainer" being discussed in this thread.
The term is being used to refer to individuals who sell themselves to kids as expert 1-on-1 instructors for skill-technique development, not injury treatment-prevention.
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Post by aceback76 on Apr 9, 2018 11:16:43 GMT -6
Use only CERTIFIED TRAINERS (& check out their certification). They must work WITH Sports Medicine Doctor Groups. Treatments are in the facilities of the Sports Medicine Doctors.l The ones we have used are: 1. VCU Health's Sports Medicine Clinic treats all patients with the same quality care we provide university and professional athletes. Our vast array of athletic injury care and specialties include: Sports medicine, hip and knee arthroscopy Anatomic single and double-bundle ACL reconstructions Meniscus repair and transplantation Complex knee and shoulder ligament reconstruction Ankle arthroscopy Rotator cuff repairs Cartilage restoration Compartment syndrome evaluations Arthroscopic shoulder stabilization We also offer on-site physical therapy. 2. HCA Virginia Sports Medicine 5.0 Rating Sports medicine clinic in Chesterfield County, Virginia That is not the kind of "trainer" being discussed in this thread.
The term is being used to refer to individuals who sell themselves to kids as expert 1-on-1 instructors for skill-technique development, not injury treatment-prevention.
You're "off" again! No one with brains would even USE those "individuals"! Investigate further (the OP referred to "TRAINERS", & we use CERTIFIED TRAINERS).
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Post by blb on Apr 9, 2018 11:27:38 GMT -6
Can't you ever admit you're wrong, especially when it's so obvious to anyone reading this thread?
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Post by aceback76 on Apr 9, 2018 11:36:51 GMT -6
Can't you ever admit you're wrong, especially when it's so obvious to anyone reading this thread? Why hell no (YOU don't KNOW "right from wrong")! Can't YOU ever stop trying to pick ARGUMENTS with your nonsensical BS??? I will go back to IGNORING your posts!
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Post by blb on Apr 9, 2018 11:40:03 GMT -6
Can't you ever admit you're wrong, especially when it's so obvious to anyone reading this thread? Why hell no (YOU ndon't KNOW "right from wrong")! Can't you ever stop trying to pick ARGUMENTS with your nonsensical BS??? I will go back to IGNORING your posts! Read back through the previous posts in this thread.
You will not find one reference in three pages to a "trainer" in the Sports Medicine sense as you posted.
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Post by aceback76 on Apr 9, 2018 11:50:06 GMT -6
Why hell no (YOU ndon't KNOW "right from wrong")! Can't you ever stop trying to pick ARGUMENTS with your nonsensical BS??? I will go back to IGNORING your posts! Read back through the previous posts in this thread.
You will not find one reference in three pages to a "trainer" in the Sports Medicine sense as you posted.
OP #1 = As a coaching community, I believe something can be done. I don’t know what it’s like in your parts but here in Southern California there is an epidemic of con artists disguised as trainers, Read more: coachhuey.com/thread/81121/fixing-problem-phony-trainers-position?page=3#ixzz5CCNdcR00BLB = what are you putting on your FROOT LOOPS? FAREWELL (for good)!
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Post by coachcb on Apr 9, 2018 11:54:23 GMT -6
You're always going to have folks outside of the program that are trying to make an extra buck.. Some of them do offer quality "training" while others don't. We had a stud QB a few years ago who would ditch the team's S&C sessions as his folks signed him up for "Velocity" sessions. The kid came into July camp an absolute beast because the trainers knew what they were doing. I knew two of the trainers as I graduated with them in the kinesiology program at the school and they never bashed the program; they were just working. He would've gotten the same, quality training in the program's S&C program (for free) but mom and dad were PITA elitists.
I will say this, I re-upped my CSCS this last fall to try and make some extra cash on the side around here. I am one of a handful of certified trainers in this area but I refuse to take on middle school or high school clients. I have been approached by quite a few parents and kids but I tell them to train at their school, with the teams. I'm not making near as much money (I only have a couple of adult clients) but I'd rather not stir up any crap with the schools.
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Post by blb on Apr 9, 2018 11:57:24 GMT -6
aceback76 You are not understanding the context in which the word "trainer" is being used in this thread.
It is referring to someone offering services as a personal coach away from the school program, as in training the athlete for performance, not an individual responsible for injury treatment and rehabilitation.
Perhaps the OP 50slantstrong or one of other posters on the subject will corroborate.
FYI I'm a Special K guy.
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Post by 50slantstrong on Apr 9, 2018 12:42:15 GMT -6
aceback76 You are not understanding the context in which the word "trainer" is being used in this thread.
It is referring to someone offering services as a personal coach away from the school program, as in training the athlete for performance, not an individual responsible for injury treatment and rehabilitation.
Perhaps the OP 50slantstrong or one of other posters on the subject will corroborate.
FYI I'm a Special K guy. This
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Post by 3rdandlong on Apr 9, 2018 14:55:29 GMT -6
I think the thread titles “tone” could apply here Lol
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Post by newcoryell on Apr 9, 2018 15:31:18 GMT -6
And the nuclear bomb has been dropped in this thread. I was looking forward to seeing the Deion Sanders Under Armour camp video....
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 9, 2018 21:59:44 GMT -6
That is not the kind of "trainer" being discussed in this thread.
The term is being used to refer to individuals who sell themselves to kids as expert 1-on-1 instructors for skill-technique development, not injury treatment-prevention.
You're "off" again! No one with brains would even USE those "individuals"! Investigate further (the OP referred to "TRAINERS", & we use CERTIFIED TRAINERS). Coach.. Coach Coach Coach. The entire thread is about personal trainers, skill trainers, position guru's etc. While you may say that "no one with brains would even USE those "individuals" the entire 3 pages of the thread are coaches who are complaining how these individuals (skill technique trainers) are impacting their football programs. Heck coach, the Original Poster 50slantstrong even just said that you were wrong. There was no fight being picked by blb. He simply was pointing out that you were talking about something different. If anyone was picking a fight, it was you, saying that blb was "off" again, when clearly he was not.
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Post by StraightFlexin on Apr 10, 2018 4:42:21 GMT -6
Had a guy in our area that was an OC and had a business and would get a ton of transfers. Even though they had 5-6 D1 kids, we destroyed them. After that, we never had to deal with the dancing WR training again.
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Post by jlenwood on Apr 10, 2018 5:38:41 GMT -6
Try to have your state association put a rule together that makes kids ineligible to play high school football if they play 7 on 7 for anyone outside of their high school team. That's how we're battling it here in Louisiana. Terrible idea in my opinion. How's that (insert ruling governing agency name here) working out? What would a State association designation do to help the kid/parent....nothing really. It would just place an imaginary protection on school coaches so they don't lose control of the product (kid). How about letting the market play itself out. If you can not communicate clearly enough the benefit of that player staying within your system, then you should not be able to just legislate they stay with you. I'm of the opinion that a student should be able to freely switch school districts with no restrictions on playing time or eligibility. I know I am in the minority on this stance, but seriously, if you can not compete/provide/coach or whatever other descriptive word you can use, well enough to keep a player at your school, why should you be able to hold them back from going somewhere else where they may have an opportunity for success they didn't have with you?
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Post by mariner42 on Apr 10, 2018 7:29:24 GMT -6
We've a group of 4 rising seniors that I've been banging my head against the wall trying to get them to come out and run track for me. They're all terrific football players, but they would all be better served with some speed because WHO WOULDN'T BE. It's been frustration for the last two months.
I see them training with one of our JV assts (who is a certified trainer) last Saturday at our field. Talking to them yesterday, I ask how much they're paying for that. $20 a session, but "it's worth it, he's helped me so much with my 40 times!"
TRACK IS FREE AND WHAT THE F*** DO YOU THINK WE DO WITH THE SPRINTERS???
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Post by jrk5150 on Apr 10, 2018 10:01:16 GMT -6
Am I crazy for having a problem that a coach is getting $ for private training when he should have told them to go do track as well? Is that not a huge conflict of interest?
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Post by 50slantstrong on Apr 10, 2018 11:10:08 GMT -6
We've a group of 4 rising seniors that I've been banging my head against the wall trying to get them to come out and run track for me. They're all terrific football players, but they would all be better served with some speed because WHO WOULDN'T BE. It's been frustration for the last two months. I see them training with one of our JV assts (who is a certified trainer) last Saturday at our field. Talking to them yesterday, I ask how much they're paying for that. $20 a session, but "it's worth it, he's helped me so much with my 40 times!" TRACK IS FREE AND WHAT THE F*** DO YOU THINK WE DO WITH THE SPRINTERS??? That's really shady IMO. If the guy needs money, there are other ways he can get it. Not taking it from your kids in exchange for what other coaches in the program can do for free. I would definitely nip that in the bud or find out the guy's true motivation.
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Post by dytmook on Apr 10, 2018 11:29:32 GMT -6
We've a group of 4 rising seniors that I've been banging my head against the wall trying to get them to come out and run track for me. They're all terrific football players, but they would all be better served with some speed because WHO WOULDN'T BE. It's been frustration for the last two months. I see them training with one of our JV assts (who is a certified trainer) last Saturday at our field. Talking to them yesterday, I ask how much they're paying for that. $20 a session, but "it's worth it, he's helped me so much with my 40 times!" TRACK IS FREE AND WHAT THE F*** DO YOU THINK WE DO WITH THE SPRINTERS??? A fool and his money are soon parted. We have some of these trainers here in my region of Ohio. There is a QB guy we highly recommend if a kid is looking for extra training. He does post stuff on social media but he explains what they are working on using the eyes to move safeties and avoiding the rush. He's done good work with two of our kids. Of course there was another guy who if parents wanted to send their kids to for speed training we used to suggest. Until he told a few kids we were using them wrong. One being a linemen project who he said should be at lb, rb, or te. Kid would warm up with the skills and we watched the balls bounce off his hands daily. That snakeoil salesman is now off the preferred vendors list, but I'm sure some parents will still give him money.
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Post by fshamrock on Apr 10, 2018 14:00:44 GMT -6
it's an interesting study in how we process and value things though, I'm sure there's a name for it that some social scientist came up with, but we will always value things that we pay for more than what comes for free. This comes from the basic human belief we all hold which states WE are awesome and really smart, so it follows that if we decide to pay for something, then that thing must be really good, because we are really smart and awesome.
The guy that i'm paying 100 bucks an hour to MUST know more about playing wide receiver than my son's high school coach, because he costs 100 bucks an hour and my son's high school coach is free. The guy that I'm paying thousands of dollars to invest my money must be a stock market expert because he costs thousands, disregard the fact that several studies have shown these experts never out perform random chance when picking stocks. If it costs, it must be good, the more it costs, the better it must be
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Post by joelee on Apr 10, 2018 14:57:41 GMT -6
We've a group of 4 rising seniors that I've been banging my head against the wall trying to get them to come out and run track for me. They're all terrific football players, but they would all be better served with some speed because WHO WOULDN'T BE. It's been frustration for the last two months. I see them training with one of our JV assts (who is a certified trainer) last Saturday at our field. Talking to them yesterday, I ask how much they're paying for that. $20 a session, but "it's worth it, he's helped me so much with my 40 times!" TRACK IS FREE AND WHAT THE F*** DO YOU THINK WE DO WITH THE SPRINTERS??? Anybody employed by your school who charges money to your students should be let go.
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Post by silkyice on Apr 10, 2018 16:14:46 GMT -6
We've a group of 4 rising seniors that I've been banging my head against the wall trying to get them to come out and run track for me. They're all terrific football players, but they would all be better served with some speed because WHO WOULDN'T BE. It's been frustration for the last two months. I see them training with one of our JV assts (who is a certified trainer) last Saturday at our field. Talking to them yesterday, I ask how much they're paying for that. $20 a session, but "it's worth it, he's helped me so much with my 40 times!" TRACK IS FREE AND WHAT THE F*** DO YOU THINK WE DO WITH THE SPRINTERS??? Anybody employed by your school who charges money to your students should be let go. While I don’t agree with the situation described earlier, I also disagree with that broad and general statement.
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Post by joelee on Apr 10, 2018 17:35:33 GMT -6
Anybody employed by your school who charges money to your students should be let go. While I don’t agree with the situation described earlier, I also disagree with that broad and general statement. Can you expand?
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 10, 2018 17:46:10 GMT -6
While I don’t agree with the situation described earlier, I also disagree with that broad and general statement. Can you expand? I can see examples where teachers might tutor other students (not those on their rosters) after hours... first thing that jumped to my mind.
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coachriley
Junior Member
"Tough times don't last; Tough people do."
Posts: 406
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Post by coachriley on Apr 10, 2018 17:49:25 GMT -6
I can see examples where teachers might tutor other students (not those on their rosters) after hours... first thing that jumped to my mind. But in that scenario, is that tutor charging and making a profit off of those students after hours? Assuming this is right after school, I would assume they would not be allowed to charge for tutoring students. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by mariner42 on Apr 10, 2018 21:33:05 GMT -6
We've a group of 4 rising seniors that I've been banging my head against the wall trying to get them to come out and run track for me. They're all terrific football players, but they would all be better served with some speed because WHO WOULDN'T BE. It's been frustration for the last two months. I see them training with one of our JV assts (who is a certified trainer) last Saturday at our field. Talking to them yesterday, I ask how much they're paying for that. $20 a session, but "it's worth it, he's helped me so much with my 40 times!" TRACK IS FREE AND WHAT THE F*** DO YOU THINK WE DO WITH THE SPRINTERS??? Anybody employed by your school who charges money to your students should be let go. California is a different deal than other parts of the country. He's a walk-on coach (we didn't pay him a stipend) who makes a living as a personal trainer. I don't begrudge him in the slightest for taking money to work with our kids. I'm beyond annoyed at our kids when I've spent the past 3-6 months loving them up, talking to them about the benefits of track, hunting them down, encouraging them, etc. I've probably had no less than a dozen conversations with each of them. Ah well, they'll get smoked by our QB, HB, DE, and OLB that are all there every day.
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Post by silkyice on Apr 11, 2018 7:47:46 GMT -6
While I don’t agree with the situation described earlier, I also disagree with that broad and general statement. Can you expand? I could give a 100 examples where we would all agree that it would be best for everyone if someone employed by the school got paid to help out a student. I could also give a 100 examples where it could be bad. But just becasue something could be bad/misused is not always a reason to just ban it all together. And while I am sure that there are actual real life bad examples, I bet they are few and far between, while I could give you many that happen every year at our own school that are for the good of everyone. Things like tutoring, camps, batting lessons, catching lessons, pitching lesson, strength training for younger kids, etc. Ultimately though, I fundamentally believe in the right of people to choose their own course as long it isn't hurting others within reason. The less rules the better. That does not mean I am against rules.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 11, 2018 12:44:07 GMT -6
I’m still waitting to see if @aceback76 retracts his derogatory statements regarding@blb.
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