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Post by 3rdandlong on Apr 5, 2018 10:26:33 GMT -6
There are so many factors involved and I can probably write a 50 page paper on this subject.
But one factor is the nature of schools and the way coaches are hired in Southern California.
At the risk of this becoming a "back in my day speech," When I first started teaching/coaching (2001), if you wanted to coach, there was a certain protocol you went through. You went to college and if you weren't playing in college you maybe helped out at the lower levels for a local high school or maybe even at your alma mater. You then got your degree, worked on your credential (while still coaching), and then looked for a teaching job. Your coaching experience helped you land a teaching job and you would be part of a coaching staff that had quite a few other coaches in the building on a daily basis.
That's not the case anymore. Coaches are now quitting after they get their tenure or administrators are not hiring coaches. This is not a problem at my school, but a problem at many in SoCal. Therefore, guys who want to coach, have decided they will find a way to make money and become a private guru. My least favorite ones are the guys who played D-I college ball and had a brief cup of coffee in the NFL. However, they couldn't get a job in the real world so they become a guru.
This is one small factor but it is still one nonetheless.
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Post by coachwoodall on Apr 5, 2018 11:02:55 GMT -6
I am not an HC but I think I would include the following in every "meet the parent meeting" -Program goals - explicitly state and/or imply that getting Johhny a scholarship is not a major goal. If a player/parent's only reason for playing HS ball is to get a scholarship, then they should be prepared for the fact that their goals might not line up with our program goals. That being said, if an athlete is good enough and buys into our program, he should put himself in a position to continue his career. Just understand, one of the questions that you'll probably get at a HC interview will be along the lines of, "How do you go about getting kids recruited".
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Post by NC1974 on Apr 5, 2018 12:17:53 GMT -6
I am not an HC but I think I would include the following in every "meet the parent meeting" -Program goals - explicitly state and/or imply that getting Johhny a scholarship is not a major goal. If a player/parent's only reason for playing HS ball is to get a scholarship, then they should be prepared for the fact that their goals might not line up with our program goals. That being said, if an athlete is good enough and buys into our program, he should put himself in a position to continue his career. Just understand, one of the questions that you'll probably get at a HC interview will be along the lines of, "How do you go about getting kids recruited". Yeah, I probably need to re-think HOW to say what I'm trying to say. What is the stat? 2% of kids get full rides? We're not going to put our program goals/values in the backseat to cater to 2% of the kids. That being said, we believe that if kids buy into our program and they are talented enough, those opportunities should present themselves, and we will help facilitate that. It can be a priority to help johhny get a scholarship but it cannot come before our program goals/values.
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Post by coachcb on Apr 5, 2018 13:36:02 GMT -6
Throughout the years, I have found that the parents are just a culpable as these con artists. I can give numerous examples of parents who have shelled out hundreds of dollars to "trainers" and "gurus" over the years against our advice. In each situation, they were paying a ton of cash for their kids to get training and advice that they could receive through the staff for free.
Bottom line; it's their money to waste. If they don't want to listen, then so be it.
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Post by pitt1980 on Apr 5, 2018 14:35:43 GMT -6
Just understand, one of the questions that you'll probably get at a HC interview will be along the lines of, "How do you go about getting kids recruited". Yeah, I probably need to re-think HOW to say what I'm trying to say. What is the stat? 2% of kids get full rides? We're not going to put our program goals/values in the backseat to cater to 2% of the kids. That being said, we believe that if kids buy into our program and they are talented enough, those opportunities should present themselves, and we will help facilitate that. It can be a priority to help johhny get a scholarship but it cannot come before our program goals/values.
You walked this back a bit, so I don't want to try and kill your original post here ...
but,
I don't think your original post was a good way to handle this
------
its easy as coaches to see it from the vantage point of playing football is a big privilege, and it is, but its also big commitment
they're not out of line, to not take it well, if you tell them, "hey, put the team first" and then "what? you expect me to care about your future?"
I think that's asking kids and parents to go outside of your system
------
I think a better approach -
try and explain that its a system that not as susceptible to gaming as they are sometimes led to believe
some of this is out of your and my control, a couple of inches in how tall the kid is going to be is going to make a stupid amount of difference (sometimes life works like that, its not a pure meritocracy)
sometimes a taller kid is going to get a scholarship over the kid who works harder
that said, the coaches who bet their careers on who to give their finite scholarships aren't stupid, they're not going to get conned into giving a kid a scholarship by a slick talking HS coach (they're definitely not getting conned into giving a kid a scholarship by a slick talking trainer or 7 on 7 coach), they're not going to open the newspaper and hand out a scholarship based on a stat line, they're pretty good at teasing out that some kids are in some roles on some teams and putting that into context, they want hard workers and good students. (those are things that you can control, if you control the things you control, I'll control what I control, and life works itself out like that)
That said, I care about you, I care about your future, I appreciate what you've committed to this program, to the degree that I'm able to help you, I will
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Post by cbnindian on Apr 5, 2018 17:17:18 GMT -6
Coryell Trainer Nothing against you in working with kids. Your intentions may be pure and your knowledge great but I am not giving you any info when it comes to our schemes and what we are trying do offensively and defensively. For all I know you could be good friends with Charlie down the street who I have to beat to make the playoffs. Second if the parents don’t think I am knowledgeable or good enough in what we do in season and in the off season then maybe their son needs to transfer to another school. Maybe good for him and our program. I know we talked about tone in another thread and I am not upset at you because a man has to do what he can to survive in life but trainers today are killing our sport.
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Post by utchuckd on Apr 5, 2018 17:44:00 GMT -6
I've graduated into the realm of not GAF anymore...I hope that all of the 3 star kids from the twitter rankings go to private ING type schools where they can do ridiculous footwork drills all day with a guy who has a PHD in running f'n speed ladders......the rest of us will play football with regular kids and have a great time. .
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Post by NC1974 on Apr 5, 2018 20:09:45 GMT -6
Yeah, I probably need to re-think HOW to say what I'm trying to say. What is the stat? 2% of kids get full rides? We're not going to put our program goals/values in the backseat to cater to 2% of the kids. That being said, we believe that if kids buy into our program and they are talented enough, those opportunities should present themselves, and we will help facilitate that. It can be a priority to help johhny get a scholarship but it cannot come before our program goals/values.
You walked this back a bit, so I don't want to try and kill your original post here ...
but,
I don't think your original post was a good way to handle this
------
its easy as coaches to see it from the vantage point of playing football is a big privilege, and it is, but its also big commitment
they're not out of line, to not take it well, if you tell them, "hey, put the team first" and then "what? you expect me to care about your future?"
I think that's asking kids and parents to go outside of your system
------
I think a better approach -
try and explain that its a system that not as susceptible to gaming as they are sometimes led to believe
some of this is out of your and my control, a couple of inches in how tall the kid is going to be is going to make a stupid amount of difference (sometimes life works like that, its not a pure meritocracy)
sometimes a taller kid is going to get a scholarship over the kid who works harder
that said, the coaches who bet their careers on who to give their finite scholarships aren't stupid, they're not going to get conned into giving a kid a scholarship by a slick talking HS coach (they're definitely not getting conned into giving a kid a scholarship by a slick talking trainer or 7 on 7 coach), they're not going to open the newspaper and hand out a scholarship based on a stat line, they're pretty good at teasing out that some kids are in some roles on some teams and putting that into context, they want hard workers and good students. (those are things that you can control, if you control the things you control, I'll control what I control, and life works itself out like that)
That said, I care about you, I care about your future, I appreciate what you've committed to this program, to the degree that I'm able to help you, I will
Pitt, well said.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 5, 2018 20:51:57 GMT -6
Are we assuming a parent or teenager doesn't understand say the underlying nature of the Wing-T or a Leach-like Spread system? If you want to hold on to the "mysteries" of football you go ahead and do that. One, I don't get paid so I have no financial incentive to "hurt/harm" the relationship between coaches and their kids. But in Texas, there are limitations to the hours the coach can spend with the kids in the spring and the summer. Do you know how many kids (14+) I've met that have no idea what a "Wham" block is or how/why that play might be called let alone how to execute said blocking scheme? By the way, I'm in Dallas, Texas so I can imagine how other programs/cities have this problem. From your post alone, you seem to think that someone is trying to usurp some almighty position as a coach. Not the case. Stop blowing up the heads of coaches and placing them all to have some standard of excellence. I've read your posts and you seem to have a great base of knowledge. Don't assume that all HS coaches do. Now, as far as the parents go...I've met some that understand that they don't know much about the game and go looking for "experts" to teach their kids because they have DOUBTS about the coaching staff at their HS. Some get rebuffed so hard by coaches that they don't feel comfortable talking or speaking with these coaches...because as adults they can feel the coaching staff looking down on them. Others have a fundamental disagreement with coaches stating that it's not their job to work to get their kids opportunities at the next level. 1) So you are telling me that in Texas, the self proclaimed greatest high school football state (often by some members here on this very site) can't coach the kids up in the regulated amount of time? I find that hard to believe. 2) I am not trying to be adversarial here. I definitely think that calling the coaches is a class move. However, I will admit the entire thing just seems fairly odd. "Hey coach, this is joe blow from Meadowood Road. One of your kids came to me (even though I don't get paid) for extra help in football (can the HS coaches not provide this?) I mean, do you have a "name" in Dallas? I am not trying to discredit you here, just get a grasp of the situation, which seems bizarre. Especially not getting paid. So, as I asked, what exactly are you teaching and how do you go about it? Other than qb mechanics, much of football technique is scheme dependent. The way John Curtis teaches pulling might vary greatly than how Evangel does. Evangel might teach pass protection much differently I might teach DB keys and reads differently than the next guy. I just have trouble picturing something like this.
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Post by cbnindian on Apr 5, 2018 21:04:57 GMT -6
What are your off season rules as far as how much time you can spend with a kid? What are the rules in Texas?
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Post by coachcb on Apr 6, 2018 7:29:51 GMT -6
Yeah, I probably need to re-think HOW to say what I'm trying to say. What is the stat? 2% of kids get full rides? We're not going to put our program goals/values in the backseat to cater to 2% of the kids. That being said, we believe that if kids buy into our program and they are talented enough, those opportunities should present themselves, and we will help facilitate that. It can be a priority to help johhny get a scholarship but it cannot come before our program goals/values.
You walked this back a bit, so I don't want to try and kill your original post here ...
but,
I don't think your original post was a good way to handle this
------
its easy as coaches to see it from the vantage point of playing football is a big privilege, and it is, but its also big commitment
they're not out of line, to not take it well, if you tell them, "hey, put the team first" and then "what? you expect me to care about your future?"
I think that's asking kids and parents to go outside of your system
------
I think a better approach -
try and explain that its a system that not as susceptible to gaming as they are sometimes led to believe
some of this is out of your and my control, a couple of inches in how tall the kid is going to be is going to make a stupid amount of difference (sometimes life works like that, its not a pure meritocracy)
sometimes a taller kid is going to get a scholarship over the kid who works harder
that said, the coaches who bet their careers on who to give their finite scholarships aren't stupid, they're not going to get conned into giving a kid a scholarship by a slick talking HS coach (they're definitely not getting conned into giving a kid a scholarship by a slick talking trainer or 7 on 7 coach), they're not going to open the newspaper and hand out a scholarship based on a stat line, they're pretty good at teasing out that some kids are in some roles on some teams and putting that into context, they want hard workers and good students. (those are things that you can control, if you control the things you control, I'll control what I control, and life works itself out like that)
That said, I care about you, I care about your future, I appreciate what you've committed to this program, to the degree that I'm able to help you, I will
We approach the "You-Should-Be-Getting-My-Kid-A-Scholarship" crew in a very specific manner. It is something that coaches of ALL sports address in their prospective parent-meetings. We tell the parents and the kids that they HAVE to excel in high school sports before they will be looked at by colleges. With team sports we emphasize that they struggle to excel if they don't buy into the playing as a part of a team and try to play as an individual. They will only be as successful as their team is as a) their performance is dependent on others and b) college recruiters make more visits to successful programs. You won't find them in the stands of 2-8 teams. And, we are also very blunt; they will be recruited if they are athletic enough to play at the next level, PERIOD. We also provide the parents and kids with the statistics and academic recruiting requirements for the NAIA and NCAA. And, we also tell them that when a college recruiter calls us, they don't just ask about the player's football skills. They ask about their work ethic, whether or not they are a multi-sport athlete (if they don't already know), and how much time the kid puts in during the off-season. We are honest with the parents and kids and tell them that we are upfront with recruiters about these questions. The major issue we have run into is parents paying hundreds of dollars to "recruiting services". We warn parents that these are generally scams but we will get them the film necessary to put together their "highlight reel". The "recruiting service" is simply paid because they tout their "contacts" and "report with colleges" while they sit back and send out the film. We have warned these parents and kids that we have yet to receive a phone call from a college that has been contacted by a "recruiting service" but they still pay out the teeth for it and get nowhere.
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Post by newcoryell on Apr 6, 2018 7:57:22 GMT -6
Coryell Trainer Nothing against you in working with kids. Your intentions may be pure and your knowledge great but I am not giving you any info when it comes to our schemes and what we are trying do offensively and defensively. For all I know you could be good friends with Charlie down the street who I have to beat to make the playoffs. Second if the parents don’t think I am knowledgeable or good enough in what we do in season and in the off season then maybe their son needs to transfer to another school. Maybe good for him and our program. I know we talked about tone in another thread and I am not upset at you because a man has to do what he can to survive in life but trainers today are killing our sport. Great idea. I also have an NDA that I always present to the coaches/parents. I usually don't have more than 3 groups working with no more than 3-4 kids per meeting. I "try" to make sure that kids aren't in competing divisions and don't share any information between kids. Again...it's something that would come up if I were working to expand...which I'm not. I work with a small group of coaches and kids. Seems to be working out so far. Again, I don't make money from training...I've been told by other trainers that I "hurt" their industry. I can't justify charging KIDS $30-$45 to help them. Renting out football fields comes with a cost and my wife is tired of me eating those costs. The time MAY come that I charge like $5 or something to help minimize the cost...but that's it. I understand a lot of hesitancy when it comes from coaches, but I'm not a "guru". Just trying to help.
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Post by newcoryell on Apr 6, 2018 8:17:42 GMT -6
1) So you are telling me that in Texas, the self proclaimed greatest high school football state (often by some members here on this very site) can't coach the kids up in the regulated amount of time? I find that hard to believe.
2) I am not trying to be adversarial here. I definitely think that calling the coaches is a class move. However, I will admit the entire thing just seems fairly odd. "Hey coach, this is joe blow from Meadowood Road. One of your kids came to me (even though I don't get paid) for extra help in football (can the HS coaches not provide this?) I mean, do you have a "name" in Dallas? I am not trying to discredit you here, just get a grasp of the situation, which seems bizarre. Especially not getting paid.
So, as I asked, what exactly are you teaching and how do you go about it? Other than qb mechanics, much of football technique is scheme dependent. The way John Curtis teaches pulling might vary greatly than how Evangel does. Evangel might teach pass protection much differently I might teach DB keys and reads differently than the next guy. I just have trouble picturing something like this.
1) Yes. There are plenty of reasons for this. I can only speak from the inner city side of things and explain that DISD has NUMEROUS issues with time management and the like.
2) Do I have a "name" in Dallas? Interesting. I prefer to say that I have a suitable knowledgebase about certain areas of football. Name? There are plenty of GURUS that have a name in Dallas that are charging $50 and $75 to train backpedal drills and shuffle steps. I understand that there are different techniques for different systems. Thus the reason I attempt to have conversations with coaches about training. The reason that I don't get paid....not to toot my own horn here is that I get paid very well at my place of employment and don't need to charge parents that are in struggling environments money to do something that I love.
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Post by fshamrock on Apr 6, 2018 8:35:16 GMT -6
As to the question at your head coach interview "what do you do to get kids recruited?"...I think an appropriate response is to ask the principal "what do you do to get kids into ivy league colleges?"
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Post by fshamrock on Apr 6, 2018 8:46:06 GMT -6
As to the question at your head coach interview "what do you do to get kids recruited?"...I think an appropriate response is to ask the principal "what do you do to get kids into ivy league colleges?" which is why I am not and never will be in charge of anything
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Post by 50slantstrong on Apr 6, 2018 8:56:41 GMT -6
What are your off season rules as far as how much time you can spend with a kid? What are the rules in Texas? We can do pretty much whatever we want sans for 3 weeks a year...
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 6, 2018 8:58:45 GMT -6
As to the question at your head coach interview "what do you do to get kids recruited?"...I think an appropriate response is to ask the principal "what do you do to get kids into ivy league colleges?" which is why I am not and never will be in charge of anything While probably not the best thing to say at an interview, I DO think that might be an excellent equivalency to bring up at a parent meeting such as those being discussed in this thread. A quick internet search led to an article by US News and World Report that states that the Ivy League accepted 8.5% of its applicants in the fall of 2016. A similar search led to a graphic put out by the NCAA that the overall percentage of HS students who play NCAA football is just 6.5% (Div I 2.5% Div II 1.7% Div III 2.3%) I never thought of this before, but I believe it certainly puts a different light on the situation.
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Post by Coach Vint on Apr 6, 2018 9:38:35 GMT -6
There are some guys who do a great job working with kids and helping them improve their skills. They do this outside of the high school kids workouts during the off-season. These are guys who are knowledgable and often are high school coaches. I have a good friend who is a WR coach who works with receivers on weekends. He charges a very nominal fee and works them on releases, stacking defenders, exploding out of their break, and finding the ball. He doesn't brag about who he works with, and he does this to help kids and makes a few extra dollars doing what he loves. I am good with this. He charges kids like $10 for a two hour group session and will have 4 or 5 kids. He is a heck of a coach and has made deep playoff runs. I am good with this.
Then you have the cone throwers. They throw down cones, collect your money, and you get little coaching. Sometimes guys are actually worse than when they started. They tweet out some videos of their substandard coaching and people keep giving them money. They might brag about playing for some big time school or something of the like. They might have a "client" who they say they turned into a 5 star recruit. We all know that kid was a 5 star recruit before they got to this guy.
Then you have the guys who are real leeches. They say whatever they need to collect money from parents. They tell the parent they can make 5-6 160 pound Johnny who runs a 5.9 40 a division one player. They tell the parents the coaches don't know anything. They might run an "elite" 7-on-7 program. They brag about helping kids get to college. It is all about their ego. They bad mouth coaches and programs. These guys ruin our game. The question is, how do you regulate this?
As far as recruiting: We educate our kids and parents on the recruiting process and facts. We educate them on the best way to prepare their kids for the possibility of a scholarship. We try to educate as best we can. The best way they can invest their hard earned money is an SAT or ACT enrichment class, rather than pay a "guru." We ask them to come to us before they give anyone any money. We tell them that one day college camps are a good investment. If they go to a camp they can meet the coaching staff and they will be evaluated. They might even get coached a little. We also tell them it doesn't matter where they play in HS, the college recruits them for their needs. Most QB's I coached were recruited as safeties in college. We had a DB 20 years ago that played Mike LB because we needed him there. He went to a BCS school and started four years in the secondary. We try to give them as much information as we can and help them to make good decisions. We do tell them that their performance and their grades are the first keys. And working hard will impact both of these. If they work hard, have a great attitude, and we win games, they will have a better chance at a scholarship. College coaches don't beat down the doors of 2-8 teams. They want winners. The great thing is, if you do things right, winning takes care of itself.
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Post by CS on Apr 6, 2018 9:57:36 GMT -6
Then you have the cone throwers. They throw down cones, collect your money, and you get little coaching. Sometimes guys are actually worse than when they started. They tweet out some videos of their substandard coaching and people keep giving them money. They might brag about playing for some big time school or something of the like. They might have a "client" who they say they turned into a 5 star recruit. We all know that kid was a 5 star recruit before they got to this guy.
Then you have the guys who are real leeches. They say whatever they need to collect money from parents. They tell the parent they can make 5-6 160 pound Johnny who runs a 5.9 40 a division one player. They tell the parents the coaches don't know anything. They might run an "elite" 7-on-7 program. They brag about helping kids get to college. It is all about their ego. They bad mouth coaches and programs. These guys ruin our game. The question is, how do you regulate this?
Thre are plenty of these guys that coach high school ball as well. It's mostly shameless self-promoting to get people to believe you are the greatest coach since Lombardi. I see/and hear dingleberry coaches do this $hit all the time. There is a way to promote your program but be genuine and be in it for the KIDS future. I truly feel that if you do right by your players then everything will work out for the better and you don't have to be a "footwork guru".
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Post by youngdc on Apr 6, 2018 11:37:04 GMT -6
The trainers, 7on7 coaches, street agents are absolutely ruining Texas High School Football. For every one commendable trainer like newcoryell there are 99 criminals. There are kids transferring schools almost daily due to these street agents
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Post by tothehouse on Apr 6, 2018 11:45:07 GMT -6
Here is my thing. I sent my QB son to a QB "school". I did my research and know the coaches...yes...coaches that run it. Not "gurus".
I look at it like this. I sent my kid there because it's like piano lesson. My son got better at becoming a QB. He wasn't doing {censored} drills and {censored} wasn't posted on social media. It was "hyped". It was work. It was hot. It was great for him...and I bet everyone that went.
The main coach running it is at a nationally ranked program. In fact...my team plays them in league. I don't care that he coached up my son. And the whole time...I felt...like every QB was getting work to be a better QB at their school. There was NO BS about recruiting, transferring or the like.
I steer my players towards guys who can help. Not the snake oil "Gamechangers" etc. That {censored} is just a work out that the kids can do at school.
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Post by 50slantstrong on Apr 6, 2018 12:32:16 GMT -6
The trainers, 7on7 coaches, street agents are absolutely ruining Texas High School Football. For every one commendable trainer like newcoryell there are 99 criminals. There are kids transferring schools almost daily due to these street agents Sounds just like SoCal
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Post by 44dlcoach on Apr 6, 2018 12:57:59 GMT -6
Here is my thing. I sent my QB son to a QB "school". I did my research and know the coaches...yes...coaches that run it. Not "gurus". I look at it like this. I sent my kid there because it's like piano lesson. My son got better at becoming a QB. He wasn't doing {censored} drills and {censored} wasn't posted on social media. It was "hyped". It was work. It was hot. It was great for him...and I bet everyone that went. The main coach running it is at a nationally ranked program. In fact...my team plays them in league. I don't care that he coached up my son. And the whole time...I felt...like every QB was getting work to be a better QB at their school. There was NO BS about recruiting, transferring or the like. I steer my players towards guys who can help. Not the snake oil "Gamechangers" etc. That {censored} is just a work out that the kids can do at school. Yet if it's the school I think it is, they have more than their fair share of rumors following them around. Sounds like they run a good camp, but its also still easy to see why a coach from another school would have second thoughts about sending his kids to it.
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Post by tothehouse on Apr 6, 2018 17:47:30 GMT -6
Not the coaches choice where to send the kid. By all means I know what you're referring to, but there were other teams in the same league that had QB's there. Some of the WRs that showed up...now...who knows about those guys.
My point is...research...send to a specialist if need be. I only did this because I knew my son wasn't going to get great QB work at our place. And I told our HC that. Not being a dick about it. Just being honest.
If a kid wants to get better and they want to spend money doing it...fine. If the "gurus" talk {censored} about what we're doing? It creates a massive problem. But the "gurus" will always defend themselves instead of realizing the damage they are doing by sending mixed signals.
That is why I made the point of getting lessons instead of "training".
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Post by s73 on Apr 6, 2018 17:52:11 GMT -6
As a coaching community, I believe something can be done. I don’t know what it’s like in your parts but here in Southern California there is an epidemic of con artists disguised as trainers, 7-7 coaches and position experts who claim to be responsible for their athletes receiving scholarships. They mislead parents about knowledge of the process, their kids’ abilities and how their high school coach should be doing his job and in turn finesse parents out of money. Parents buy these clowns’ acts hook, line and sinker. After all they’re paying them and they have a really cool instagram with pictures of NFL players they supposedly trained. Based off of conversations the staff has had with kid and parent, it seems like once again a returning starter is transferring because him and his parents think that he's not playing the right position and it's the reason he's not being offered a scholarship. He's been a great kid the last three years, a serviceable (but not great) 3 tech and occasional 5 tech vs power teams, and for the most part a pleasant kid to coach. However, he has about a 2.5 GPA, and ran a 5.2 in testing 2 weeks ago. Him and his dad insist that he's a linebacker and fullback (even though we run a spread) and that their trainer agrees and thinks in order to get a scholarship, he needs to play those positions. When asked who his trainer was, dad showed us a social media account of videos of kids doing cones and ladders with rap music playing and a list of clients that included Derek Carr, the St. Brown brothers, Jamaal Williams, etc. No testimonials or pictures with any of said guys of course. A lot of the younger kids that he can verify he did train have transferred schools, I'm assuming because of his influence. Guy also claims he played at USC, of course when we googled his name, nothing came up. This is not an isolated incident. Last year a 7-7 guru told a group of our parents and his customers that their kids need to go play at his fellow 7-7 guru's school in order to win a championship and the year prior another 7-7 guy told one of our all-league D lineman (who literally couldn't squat parallel or do drive-crossover-drive agilities) that he's a DB and as a staff we had him out of position. All kids transferred with predictable results. Guys like this are bad for business. They make coaches' jobs even harder, they fleece parents out of their hard-earned money, and worst of all, they lie to kids. What do you think a realistic sollution is? I do not believe it is crazy to assert that all coaches, trainers, etc need to obtain some type of a certification from USA Football. In turn as high school coaches, we can emphasize to our kids and parents that if they wish to seek outside training, it will be in their best interest to make sure they retain a trainer whom is certified by USA Football. What are your guys' thoughts on the potential of adopting such certifications? Not sure if this was said already so excuse any possible redundancy. If the trainer a kid is using is more of a con artist or phony (btw, some are and some aren't IME but almost ALL either are not good at training kids for football v. fitness or.....most try to find a way to show the kid improved at something so he keeps spending the money) my way of dealing w/ this is telling him that nothing can replace working w/ his teammates and then I try to run a good enough program so that those who train w/ us tend to out perform anyone who does not. That IMO is the best way to do away w/ it. have had some go to a "trainer" only to come back after his teammates surpassed him in the weight room and on the field. PS - True Story: Had a guy trying to drum up business so he started a speed & agility camp for pretty cheap and he timed everyone in the 40 on day 1. On the last day he timed them again but put the last cone at 37 yards and then of course everyone improved dramatically. It was easy to see the cone was only 37 yards but guess what, nobody said anything. You know why? Because everyone got "faster". My point? Have to beat those kids on the field. it's the only way to stop them from drinking the kool -aid. JMO.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2018 8:13:05 GMT -6
Thre are plenty of these guys that coach high school ball as well. It's mostly shameless self-promoting to get people to believe you are the greatest coach since Lombardi. I see/and hear dingleberry coaches do this $hit all the time. There is a way to promote your program but be genuine and be in it for the KIDS future. I truly feel that if you do right by your players then everything will work out for the better and you don't have to be a "footwork guru". There are plenty of guys who do this at the college level. They get a job because of who they know or what they did as a player, then keep it because they can recruit and hype themselves up. People buy it. It's been really frustrating to me as I've spent the last few years applying for HS HC gigs to see more and more of this type of person getting those jobs because of pure self promotion. I'm getting very cynical and starting to think that getting a HC gig in 2018 is more about being young, handsome, and full of your own hype than actually mentoring kids, knowing the game, and building a program. Our profession is turning more and more into being about who can sell the most snake oil to kids, parents, and administrators while bragging about how he's such a great leader. Then when those guys get the jobs and are exposed for the hacks they are... a few years later the schools replace them with someone just like them.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Apr 7, 2018 9:19:00 GMT -6
If you want to get a good laugh take a look at what @plies says about 7 on 7 coaches on a video on Twitter.
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Post by fballcoachg on Apr 7, 2018 18:12:52 GMT -6
Our state doesn’t have the issue with non-school 7on7 but trainers exist and some try to push kids to other schools.
Something I just now thought of, if it’s out of control in your area and something I’d like to do here with the ever increasing trainers and the questionable influence some are trying to have, is make a list of upfront/recommended/approved trainers. Could be “certified” through the coaches associations etc. It won’t stop everything but it may be a way to work together.
Also, I don’t fight the guys too much but explain to the kids and parents anything extra is extra, they work with their team first bc it’s most important to strain together.
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Post by Coach Vint on Apr 9, 2018 7:48:19 GMT -6
Heard Deion Sanders talking at the Under Armour Camp this weekend telling kids and parents they should go to a school where they are being utilized properly. Basically he said they should transfer is they don't think the coach is not using them the way they think they should be used. It is that attitude that negatively impacts high school sports. I am pretty sure the video is on social media being spread throughout the land.
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Post by gators41 on Apr 9, 2018 7:51:59 GMT -6
As a coaching community, I believe something can be done. I don’t know what it’s like in your parts but here in Southern California there is an epidemic of con artists disguised as trainers, 7-7 coaches and position experts who claim to be responsible for their athletes receiving scholarships. They mislead parents about knowledge of the process, their kids’ abilities and how their high school coach should be doing his job and in turn finesse parents out of money. Parents buy these clowns’ acts hook, line and sinker. After all they’re paying them and they have a really cool instagram with pictures of NFL players they supposedly trained. Based off of conversations the staff has had with kid and parent, it seems like once again a returning starter is transferring because him and his parents think that he's not playing the right position and it's the reason he's not being offered a scholarship. He's been a great kid the last three years, a serviceable (but not great) 3 tech and occasional 5 tech vs power teams, and for the most part a pleasant kid to coach. However, he has about a 2.5 GPA, and ran a 5.2 in testing 2 weeks ago. Him and his dad insist that he's a linebacker and fullback (even though we run a spread) and that their trainer agrees and thinks in order to get a scholarship, he needs to play those positions. When asked who his trainer was, dad showed us a social media account of videos of kids doing cones and ladders with rap music playing and a list of clients that included Derek Carr, the St. Brown brothers, Jamaal Williams, etc. No testimonials or pictures with any of said guys of course. A lot of the younger kids that he can verify he did train have transferred schools, I'm assuming because of his influence. Guy also claims he played at USC, of course when we googled his name, nothing came up. This is not an isolated incident. Last year a 7-7 guru told a group of our parents and his customers that their kids need to go play at his fellow 7-7 guru's school in order to win a championship and the year prior another 7-7 guy told one of our all-league D lineman (who literally couldn't squat parallel or do drive-crossover-drive agilities) that he's a DB and as a staff we had him out of position. All kids transferred with predictable results. Guys like this are bad for business. They make coaches' jobs even harder, they fleece parents out of their hard-earned money, and worst of all, they lie to kids. What do you think a realistic sollution is? I do not believe it is crazy to assert that all coaches, trainers, etc need to obtain some type of a certification from USA Football. In turn as high school coaches, we can emphasize to our kids and parents that if they wish to seek outside training, it will be in their best interest to make sure they retain a trainer whom is certified by USA Football. What are your guys' thoughts on the potential of adopting such certifications? I am at the point where I am going to start my own team. There is no control over these things and there never will be. So we have to get ahead of this. The good news is that our county supports this and is sick of the 7v7 as well. A lot of people hit the nail on the head in this thread, make sure you are doing everything you can in your program to limit players from looking for help elsewhere. You will never be able to convince everyone but you can get most.
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