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Post by ylspecial on Jan 30, 2018 10:29:05 GMT -6
"I've got a kid who is sneaky and I honestly don't trust him and don't want him around our team. It's widely believed that he is involved in drug dealing and other illegal activity although he's never been caught. Administration and even law enforcement are onto him. He's one of those smart kids who thinks he's invincible, above authority and rules, and that he'll never get caught. The "problem" is he hasn't been caught doing anything."
This is the original post. I would never kick a kid off for being Tardy. The original poster spoke to a much more serious offender. If this type of kid wanted to come out for my team, I would first meet with my AD and Principal to let them know my concerns. I would also let them know that I hoped football could help him get away from these mistakes. I would also let them know (which they already do and I am in year one at my school) that I do not want to allow his believed behavior to rub off on other plays. I would then ask them what they thought about writing up a behavior contract. If they approved, they Principal, AD, me, and the student and his parents would sign.
FTR, I have never done this. But I have worked with plenty of coaches who have done this with great success. It is not for the kid who chews gum in class. It is for the habitual offender.
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Post by 33coach on Jan 30, 2018 10:58:14 GMT -6
"I've got a kid who is sneaky and I honestly don't trust him and don't want him around our team. It's widely believed that he is involved in drug dealing and other illegal activity although he's never been caught. Administration and even law enforcement are onto him. He's one of those smart kids who thinks he's invincible, above authority and rules, and that he'll never get caught. The "problem" is he hasn't been caught doing anything." This is the original post. I would never kick a kid off for being Tardy. The original poster spoke to a much more serious offender. If this type of kid wanted to come out for my team, I would first meet with my AD and Principal to let them know my concerns. I would also let them know that I hoped football could help him get away from these mistakes. I would also let them know (which they already do and I am in year one at my school) that I do not want to allow his believed behavior to rub off on other plays. I would then ask them what they thought about writing up a behavior contract. If they approved, they Principal, AD, me, and the student and his parents would sign. FTR, I have never done this. But I have worked with plenty of coaches who have done this with great success. It is not for the kid who chews gum in class. It is for the habitual offender. you are missing the "widely believed" part. so if he has been caught.. sure i get the extra detail..... if he hasnt, and it turns out to be parents and kids talking trash (as usual) then you just alienated a kid for nothing... not sure id want to take the chance on what people say.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 30, 2018 11:33:31 GMT -6
We have a kid in the school that is a screaming PITA. He lies through his teeth about everything, he's a defiant and disruptive chit, he steals, he's been busted drinking and drugging by the cops, etc..etc.. He told me he wants to play football next year and I smiled, nodded, and said "that's great". I wanted to tell him to stay the hell away from the football team but I'd get into trouble for that. However, little does he realize that the football field is MY WORLD and it's a privilege for him to be a part of it. I will run him out of the program in a heart-beat if he screws around next year. I will never tell a kid he shouldn't play football for us. Sometimes it's just what the kid needs; a good football season will provide them with the structure they need to succeed. That's not the case with the kid I described above; he's a friggin' nightmare. And, I will get into a world of chit if I tell a kid not to play a sport. But, sports are a privilege and they are not a right; I'm stuck putting up with his crap during the school day but I won't do it in a sport season. Such kids are often what I call Spring Football players - in Spring they talk about playing but aren't around in August.
Even if he does show up when practice starts, chances are he won't last long. Won't be able to tolerate the demands-rigors of the sport.
I would consider him a Spring baller but I get the feeling he and his folks are going to push the issue with us for a few weeks, come August. His parents won't let him "quit" a sport, no matter how much of a PITA he is. So we'll end up kicking him off of the team. He'll start skipping practices and the situation will take care of itself. We'll see.. The kids know that I don't have to put up with the IEP/Behavioral Modification Plan bullchit in sports like I do in school so there's no hoops to jump through. You do the right things or you're gone, it's as simple as that. I'm surprised he's even talking about football; I kicked him off of the track team last year and will probably do the same this year.
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Post by coachdmyers on Jan 30, 2018 16:13:09 GMT -6
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Post by coachcb on Jan 31, 2018 12:43:50 GMT -6
Yeah, we've run into issues with that a few times but the parents and players sign several documents acknowledging that they have read the school and team's athletic policies and will abide by them. They probably wouldn't hold up in court but the parents who've pulled the ADA card on us didn't feel like shelling out several grand fighting to keep a kid in a sport when they didn't want to play anyway. We had a set of parents that pushed it hard my second year of coaching. We wanted to boot a kid with an IEP from the team for missing practices but they brought a lawyer in. The solution was simple; we didn't play him. Yup, he was still on the team but we weren't going to play a kid who had missed 10 of the first 17 practices. Mom and dad dragged us into a meeting with a lawyer again but they had no legal grounds to stand on. We had a violent girl in track who stated she was going to "smash Lil' Johnny's f-ing teeth in with a javelin". She was actually waving the javelin at the kid.. I kicked her off of the team right there and then and mom tried to sue us. There was another simple solution there; Johnny's parents filed for a restraining order against the violent athlete. Mom backed off quickly because she. So, yes, the law is there. BUT, there are ways to push back if mommy and daddy get litigious.
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Post by coachdmyers on Jan 31, 2018 13:00:08 GMT -6
Yeah, we've run into issues with that a few times but the parents and players sign several documents acknowledging that they have read the school and team's athletic policies and will abide by them. They probably wouldn't hold up in court but the parents who've pulled the ADA card on us didn't feel like shelling out several grand fighting to keep a kid in a sport when they didn't want to play anyway. We had a set of parents that pushed it hard my second year of coaching. We wanted to boot a kid with an IEP from the team for missing practices but they brought a lawyer in. The solution was simple; we didn't play him. Yup, he was still on the team but we weren't going to play a kid who had missed 10 of the first 17 practices. Mom and dad dragged us into a meeting with a lawyer again but they had no legal grounds to stand on. We had a violent girl in track who stated she was going to "smash Lil' Johnny's f-ing teeth in with a javelin". She was actually waving the javelin at the kid.. I kicked her off of the team right there and then and mom tried to sue us. There was another simple solution there; Johnny's parents filed for a restraining order against the violent athlete. Mom backed off quickly because she. So, yes, the law is there. BUT, there are ways to push back if mommy and daddy get litigious. I have an earlier post where I outline exactly this as our starting point, and take it a bit further to pulling kids from practice reps because of their behavior. I don't ever want to put myself in a position where I'm making the district bring the lawyers out. It's expensive either way. We did it with any kid, not just the ones with IEPs. Again, the point wasn't to punish them for the sake of it, or even to drive them away, but to create immediate feedback for behaviors that were undesirable/counterproductive. You can actually comply with the IEP AND ensure your team is held to a high standard.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 31, 2018 13:54:37 GMT -6
Yeah, we've run into issues with that a few times but the parents and players sign several documents acknowledging that they have read the school and team's athletic policies and will abide by them. They probably wouldn't hold up in court but the parents who've pulled the ADA card on us didn't feel like shelling out several grand fighting to keep a kid in a sport when they didn't want to play anyway. We had a set of parents that pushed it hard my second year of coaching. We wanted to boot a kid with an IEP from the team for missing practices but they brought a lawyer in. The solution was simple; we didn't play him. Yup, he was still on the team but we weren't going to play a kid who had missed 10 of the first 17 practices. Mom and dad dragged us into a meeting with a lawyer again but they had no legal grounds to stand on. We had a violent girl in track who stated she was going to "smash Lil' Johnny's f-ing teeth in with a javelin". She was actually waving the javelin at the kid.. I kicked her off of the team right there and then and mom tried to sue us. There was another simple solution there; Johnny's parents filed for a restraining order against the violent athlete. Mom backed off quickly because she. So, yes, the law is there. BUT, there are ways to push back if mommy and daddy get litigious. I have an earlier post where I outline exactly this as our starting point, and take it a bit further to pulling kids from practice reps because of their behavior. I don't ever want to put myself in a position where I'm making the district bring the lawyers out. It's expensive either way. We did it with any kid, not just the ones with IEPs. Again, the point wasn't to punish them for the sake of it, or even to drive them away, but to create immediate feedback for behaviors that were undesirable/counterproductive. You can actually comply with the IEP AND ensure your team is held to a high standard. Our first step in the discipline process is to remove the player from the drill and talk to them about their attitude, effort level, etc..etc.. The second step would be removing them from practice but keeping them in the facility. The third step would be booting them from practice all together and contacting their parents and the administration to let them know why. This is obviously situation-dependent. The major conundrum we've run into is these kids skipping practice and trying to enforce the attendance policy. We've gotten a lot of excuses from enabling parents over the years when kids skip practice. But, again, we just won't play them at the end of the day. We're not violating their "rights" by benching them. I'm the AD of our school and I obviously toe the line when it comes to the law. BUT, with that being said, I won't tolerate poor behavior or absenteeism coming from the athletic programs, regardless of the kid's IEP/Behavioral Modification Plan. Right now, we have several students with serious mental health/behavioral issues that are dragging down a lot of kids but we can't even suspend them from school without having to pay for services that we can't afford. So, we're stuck with them in the school but I'll be damned if we have to put up with it in athletics.
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