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Post by RuningOutOfOptions on Sept 13, 2017 6:11:02 GMT -6
I would talk to the kids, make sure they understand why people are upset with them, let them form in their own words why they are upset or want the attention. I would explain that I will do my best to help them and that I can not understand how they feel because I have never been in their shoes.
If it's police brutality that is the issue, I'd make sure to talk to maybe a retired police officer who would be willing to explain the police side of it and create an intellectual conversation about it.
If I was pressured to make it go away, I'd talk to the coaching staff about ignoring it since the attention feeds the cause so to say. I would ask the coaching staff to play ignorant about what is happening and just say that we are too busy paying our respects during the anthem and didn't notice it.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Sept 13, 2017 8:30:53 GMT -6
I'm curious why some feel that if a person hasn't been personally wronged or oppressed that they are then not qualified to speak or act out against what they regard to be oppression of others? Don't we try like crazy to teach young people to speak up when they see something wrong, stand up against bullying, etc.?
I'm not saying police are bullies, don't take it that way. But I don't get the logic at all when people say things like "Kaepernick has never been oppressed so he shouldn't be talking about it."
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Post by wiscohscoach on Sept 13, 2017 8:41:38 GMT -6
I'm curious why some feel that if a person hasn't been personally wronged or oppressed that they are then not qualified to speak or act out against what they regard to be oppression of others? Don't we try like crazy to teach young people to speak up when they see something wrong, stand up against bullying, etc.? I'm not saying police are bullies, don't take it that way. But I don't get the logic at all when people say things like "Kaepernick has never been oppressed so he shouldn't be talking about it." There's a difference between speaking up and looking for attention. A lot of young people see individuals do it on TV and never actually look into the issues, they just mimic the behavior for attention.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Sept 13, 2017 8:53:56 GMT -6
I'm curious why some feel that if a person hasn't been personally wronged or oppressed that they are then not qualified to speak or act out against what they regard to be oppression of others? Don't we try like crazy to teach young people to speak up when they see something wrong, stand up against bullying, etc.? I'm not saying police are bullies, don't take it that way. But I don't get the logic at all when people say things like "Kaepernick has never been oppressed so he shouldn't be talking about it." There's a difference between speaking up and looking for attention. A lot of young people see individuals do it on TV and never actually look into the issues, they just mimic the behavior for attention. Agree that there's a difference in the two. I don't know enough about how my athletes spend the 21 hours a day I'm not with them to say definitively whether or not they are looking into issues or simply mimicking behavior, unless I have a conversation with them about it.
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Post by newhope on Sept 13, 2017 12:25:23 GMT -6
If a young man was to play on Friday nights, he had better not take a knee during the playing of the national anthem. Our players will stand, if for no other reason than to show their respect for those in our community who have served in the armed forces. I cannot believe the passivity and hypocrisy of so many coaches on this board. Furthermore, I cannot believe that any of you support what "Kap" does and says! For those of you worried about a lawsuit, how do you enforce any of the other expectations that you have for your players? That's a cop-out! You just don't want to upset your snowflakes! Be a leader. Teach your athletes to respect the flag. They live in the greatest country in the world! People died to give them the RIGHT to free speech and free expression. You don't have the right to enforce YOUR political beliefs on them. Given the rest of your post, I'm not surprised you don't get it.
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Post by PSS on Sept 13, 2017 12:39:27 GMT -6
If a young man was to play on Friday nights, he had better not take a knee during the playing of the national anthem. Our players will stand, if for no other reason than to show their respect for those in our community who have served in the armed forces. I cannot believe the passivity and hypocrisy of so many coaches on this board. Furthermore, I cannot believe that any of you support what "Kap" does and says! For those of you worried about a lawsuit, how do you enforce any of the other expectations that you have for your players? That's a cop-out! You just don't want to upset your snowflakes! Be a leader. Teach your athletes to respect the flag. They live in the greatest country in the world! People died to give them the RIGHT to free speech and free expression. You don't have the right to enforce YOUR political beliefs on them. Given the rest of your post, I'm not surprised you don't get it. bclawreview.org/review/53_1/08_zeide/ Extracurricular activities are not a right, thus they don't follow under the same guidelines as a regular student. We went through this on page 2 or 3.
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Post by fkaboneyard on Sept 13, 2017 12:57:19 GMT -6
Take a look at the “That’s racist!” thread and see if you feel that those kids have a “right” to do that. The kids are doing something that many find extremely offensive on their own time, away from the school and showing no connection to the school or the football team. But they should be tossed from the football team. Now you’ve got kids kneeling during the national anthem – something that many find extremely offensive. And they’re doing it during a school sponsored activity as a representative of the school and the football team. What’s the difference?
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Post by hunhdisciple on Sept 13, 2017 13:05:19 GMT -6
Take a look at the “That’s racist!” thread and see if you feel that those kids have a “right” to do that. The kids are doing something that many find extremely offensive on their own time, away from the school and showing no connection to the school or the football team. But they should be tossed from the football team. Now you’ve got kids kneeling during the national anthem – something that many find extremely offensive. And they’re doing it during a school sponsored activity as a representative of the school and the football team. What’s the difference? I would say the difference would be the genocide assumption that goes along with one. But, I could be wrong.
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Post by RuningOutOfOptions on Sept 13, 2017 13:09:09 GMT -6
Take a look at the “That’s racist!” thread and see if you feel that those kids have a “right” to do that. The kids are doing something that many find extremely offensive on their own time, away from the school and showing no connection to the school or the football team. But they should be tossed from the football team. Now you’ve got kids kneeling during the national anthem – something that many find extremely offensive. And they’re doing it during a school sponsored activity as a representative of the school and the football team. What’s the difference? one is people spreading hate because they believe they are the "superior race" and identifying as a group who hates people because of the color of their skin (which you have teammates with the same skin color they hate), the other is of people protesting against how they are being oppressed as a minority (except the ones who do it just for attention of course).
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Post by irishdog on Sept 13, 2017 13:15:43 GMT -6
We never had to deal with this when I played (60's). Why? Because most of our coaches were vets. We just finished fighting in Korea, and 20+ years earlier our fathers fought in WWII. Physical and mental toughness were considerable parts of our upbringing, and respect was never given...it was earned. And we always showed our respect for the country we lived in because our parents, our relatives, and their friends knew what fighting and dying for liberty was all about, and they shared that with us. We didn't know any different.
But...Vietnam changed all that. A large number of my generation decided they wouldn't raise their children the same way. Then...Their children raised children, and now those children are raising children (the ones we are coaching and teaching today), and guess what? Three generations of change later...here we are! How kids are being raised today, and even 20 years ago, is polar opposite of what my generation, or previous generations grew up with. And it's damn sad to see.
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Post by PSS on Sept 13, 2017 13:36:12 GMT -6
They are participating in a team sport. The team is instructed on how they will stand when the colors are presented and the National Anthem is played. Coach tells them there will be no exceptions. One or two of the players decide that they will go to the bench and take a knee. This obviously is not how they were instructed and show individualism instead of being a together as a team. After the game the coach pulls the two players aside and tells them that their actions will not be tolerated, that they are a members of a team and will do as the other team members are told to do. If not they will be removed from the program. The next game the same two players take a knee during the National Anthem. The coach has them removed from the sidelines and dismisses them from the team after the game. I don't think the players have a leg to stand on. "By participating in the extracurricular activity, H.S. voluntarily forfeited individual speech rights and became the school’s representative:" bclawreview.org/files/2012/10/08_zeidel.pdf
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Post by 19delta on Sept 13, 2017 14:17:57 GMT -6
Take a look at the “That’s racist!” thread and see if you feel that those kids have a “right” to do that. The kids are doing something that many find extremely offensive on their own time, away from the school and showing no connection to the school or the football team. But they should be tossed from the football team. Now you’ve got kids kneeling during the national anthem – something that many find extremely offensive. And they’re doing it during a school sponsored activity as a representative of the school and the football team. What’s the difference? I would say the difference would be the genocide assumption that goes along with one. But, I could be wrong. Nice... 👍
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Post by coachcb on Sept 13, 2017 15:35:53 GMT -6
A) If a kid just knelt during the National Anthem without telling me, I'd bench them for that game, period. Again, they will not use our team and school as a soap box for their own personal beliefs.
B) If they brought it up beforehand, I would tell them that they have a multitude of avenues throughout a day to protest/express their beliefs that doesn't involve dragging their team, school, and community into the middle of it. For example, organizing a moment of silence/prayer to honor those that have died at a flag pole before school is a much more appropriate and powerful form of protest.
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Post by brophy on Sept 13, 2017 15:46:31 GMT -6
Side note: I am not born in America, I am raised in the woods of Sweden essentially. If you believe I can't bring anything to the discussion since I have not lived in the US for longer than I have, I will remove myself from the discussion. so what are you basing any of your "evidence" on if you don't live in an American city? I am at a loss on how we reinforce the intent of competitive athletics, which is self-efficacy of constantly positively improving/contributing, while at the same time placating these wanton attitudes of endless victim-mentality that can only be addressed by further handicapping everyone (i.e. learned helplessness) take a step back from the facebook hysteria and recognize what this attitude feeds... Do these traits sound familiar? This is what we continue to reinforce to this generation and nurturing never-ending discontent, that its everyone else's fault and I'm not responsible for the outcomes in my own life
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Post by NC1974 on Sept 13, 2017 18:48:59 GMT -6
We never had to deal with this when I played (60's). Why? Because most of our coaches were vets. We just finished fighting in Korea, and 20+ years earlier our fathers fought in WWII. Physical and mental toughness were considerable parts of our upbringing, and respect was never given...it was earned. And we always showed our respect for the country we lived in because our parents, our relatives, and their friends knew what fighting and dying for liberty was all about, and they shared that with us. We didn't know any different. But...Vietnam changed all that. A large number of my generation decided they wouldn't raise their children the same way. Then...Their children raised children, and now those children are raising children (the ones we are coaching and teaching today), and guess what? Three generations of change later...here we are! How kids are being raised today, and even 20 years ago, is polar opposite of what my generation, or previous generations grew up with. And it's damn sad to see. Irishdog, I would just point out that during the good old days your referring to, there were still Jim Crow laws and massive voter disenfranchisement of African Americans across a huge swath of our country. If it wasn't for people, non-violently protesting that kind of treatment, we may have never seen it change. i'm not trying to make an apples to apples comparison here, but the 60s were not a great time in U.S. History in the are of social equality. So, I can see how you might long for the good old days, but I hope you can acknowledge the great strides we've made in many areas.
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Post by NC1974 on Sept 13, 2017 18:53:44 GMT -6
Side note: I am not born in America, I am raised in the woods of Sweden essentially. If you believe I can't bring anything to the discussion since I have not lived in the US for longer than I have, I will remove myself from the discussion. so what are you basing any of your "evidence" on if you don't live in an American city? I am at a loss on how we reinforce the intent of competitive athletics, which is self-efficacy of constantly positively improving/contributing, while at the same time placating these wanton attitudes of endless victim-mentality that can only be addressed by further handicapping everyone (i.e. learned helplessness) take a step back from the facebook hysteria and recognize what this attitude feeds... Do these traits sound familiar? This is what we continue to reinforce to this generation and nurturing never-ending discontent, that its everyone else's fault and I'm not responsible for the outcomes in my own lifeBrophy, I'm with you on preaching personal responsibility, but if no one ever speaks up and points out injustice, there is not much chance of it changing. Pointing out injustice or perceived injustice is not the same as being a victim. And in regards to your point about "competitive athletics", I will only speak for myself here. I am first and foremost an educator. I hope I'm viewing my players as more than just athletes. They're human beings on their way to adulthood. In fact some times the "ask no questions, do what your told" aspect of athletics might not serve them so well in other parts of their lives. If there is a kid who truly feels strongly about making some sort of stand like this, this takes us outside the realm of athletics.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 13, 2017 18:55:58 GMT -6
We never had to deal with this when I played (60's). Why? Because most of our coaches were vets. We just finished fighting in Korea, and 20+ years earlier our fathers fought in WWII. Physical and mental toughness were considerable parts of our upbringing, and respect was never given...it was earned. And we always showed our respect for the country we lived in because our parents, our relatives, and their friends knew what fighting and dying for liberty was all about, and they shared that with us. We didn't know any different. But...Vietnam changed all that. A large number of my generation decided they wouldn't raise their children the same way. Then...Their children raised children, and now those children are raising children (the ones we are coaching and teaching today), and guess what? Three generations of change later...here we are! How kids are being raised today, and even 20 years ago, is polar opposite of what my generation, or previous generations grew up with. And it's damn sad to see. Irishdog, I would just point out that during the good old days your referring to, there were still Jim Crow laws and massive voter disenfranchisement of African Americans across a huge swath of our country. If it wasn't for people, non-violently protesting that kind of treatment, we may have never seen it change. i'm not trying to make an apples to apples comparison here, but the 60s were not a great time in U.S. History in the are of social equality. So, I can see how you might long for the good old days, but I hope you can acknowledge the great strides we've made in many areas. The "good ol' days" weren't so good for everyone, that's for sure.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 13, 2017 19:15:28 GMT -6
so what are you basing any of your "evidence" on if you don't live in an American city? I am at a loss on how we reinforce the intent of competitive athletics, which is self-efficacy of constantly positively improving/contributing, while at the same time placating these wanton attitudes of endless victim-mentality that can only be addressed by further handicapping everyone (i.e. learned helplessness) take a step back from the facebook hysteria and recognize what this attitude feeds... Do these traits sound familiar? This is what we continue to reinforce to this generation and nurturing never-ending discontent, that its everyone else's fault and I'm not responsible for the outcomes in my own lifeBrophy, I'm with you on preaching personal responsibility, but if no one ever speaks up and points out injustice, there is not much chance of it changing. Pointing out injustice or perceived injustice is not the same as being a victim. I generally agree with you. With that being said, where is the line (if there is indeed a line) between identifying those who have suffered actual injustice and those who are simply self-indulgent navel-gazers? And who gets to decide what is a legitimate grievance and what isn't? For example, I think most people would agree that what happened to Laquan McDonald at the hands of Chicago police is a legitimate injustice (if not an outright criminal act). On the other hand, what about something like this? nypost.com/2017/05/24/burrito-shop-closes-after-being-accused-of-cultural-appropriation/Certainly, to me, I find the second example ridiculous. But many people, obviously, do not. I'm not going to suggest that high school kids are going to start boycotting the cafeteria because the lunch ladies aren't heating up the right kind of frozen taco meat. But, if you are a head football coach and one of your duties is to foster an environment of conformity and unity, how do you decide what issues are important and what issues aren't? It can't be a free-for-all, can it?
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 13, 2017 19:23:07 GMT -6
Now that this is over, can we focus on the actual...how would you handle it? We get it, some of you guys who have forgotten that the United States of America were formed by white men who were complaining and protesting their government would bench your guys. Any other thoughts or ideas? ...and you work with our youth...? Smh Sad. And why is that, internet tough guy? Please point out the factual errors that anyone here has made in posts with which you disagree? I know you won't be able to, because that is the problem. PLEASE, PLEASE pretty please show me the factual error of my statement.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 13, 2017 19:33:04 GMT -6
We never had to deal with this when I played (60's). Why? Because most of our coaches were vets. We just finished fighting in Korea, and 20+ years earlier our fathers fought in WWII. Physical and mental toughness were considerable parts of our upbringing, and respect was never given...it was earned. And we always showed our respect for the country we lived in because our parents, our relatives, and their friends knew what fighting and dying for liberty was all about, and they shared that with us. We didn't know any different. But...Vietnam changed all that. A large number of my generation decided they wouldn't raise their children the same way. Then...Their children raised children, and now those children are raising children (the ones we are coaching and teaching today), and guess what? Three generations of change later...here we are! How kids are being raised today, and even 20 years ago, is polar opposite of what my generation, or previous generations grew up with. And it's damn sad to see. Irishdog, I would just point out that during the good old days your referring to, there were still Jim Crow laws and massive voter disenfranchisement of African Americans across a huge swath of our country. If it wasn't for people, non-violently protesting that kind of treatment, we may have never seen it change. i'm not trying to make an apples to apples comparison here, but the 60s were not a great time in U.S. History in the are of social equality. So, I can see how you might long for the good old days, but I hope you can acknowledge the great strides we've made in many areas. Well put NC1974 irishdog your post highlights the very issue that many are talking about. Your nostalgic walk down memory lane highlights what your perception of those times were. The guys who people are complaining about...well, their grandparents (and in some cases parents) COULDN'T EVEN DRINK AT THE SAME WATER FOUNTAIN!!!!! All that is happening today, is that some people are trying to show that the fact that they have melanin in their skin greatly affects their lives.
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Post by NC1974 on Sept 13, 2017 19:42:39 GMT -6
Brophy, I'm with you on preaching personal responsibility, but if no one ever speaks up and points out injustice, there is not much chance of it changing. Pointing out injustice or perceived injustice is not the same as being a victim. I generally agree with you. With that being said, where is the line (if there is indeed a line) between identifying those who have suffered actual injustice and those who are simply self-indulgent navel-gazers? And who gets to decide what is a legitimate grievance and what isn't? For example, I think most people would agree that what happened to Laquan McDonald at the hands of Chicago police is a legitimate injustice (if not an outright criminal act). On the other hand, what about something like this? nypost.com/2017/05/24/burrito-shop-closes-after-being-accused-of-cultural-appropriation/Certainly, to me, I find the second example ridiculous. But many people, obviously, do not. I'm not going to suggest that high school kids are going to start boycotting the cafeteria because the lunch ladies aren't heating up the right kind of frozen taco meat. But, if you are a head football coach and one of your duties is to foster an environment of conformity and unity, how do you decide what issues are important and what issues aren't? It can't be a free-for-all, can it? _______________________________________________________________________________________________ 19Delta, Good point. Again, not making an apples to apples comparison here, but for many who took part in the Civil Rights movement, they had to answer a few questions for themselves: -Am I serious enough about this cause to suffer the potential consequences i.e. arrest, physical harm, death, loss of friends etc. These are the kind of questions I'd like to ask a kid who is considering "kneeling". If a kid is willing to suffer the potential negative consequences, then that would indicate that he feels pretty strongly about it and it's not just a lark.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 13, 2017 20:11:51 GMT -6
I generally agree with you. With that being said, where is the line (if there is indeed a line) between identifying those who have suffered actual injustice and those who are simply self-indulgent navel-gazers? And who gets to decide what is a legitimate grievance and what isn't? For example, I think most people would agree that what happened to Laquan McDonald at the hands of Chicago police is a legitimate injustice (if not an outright criminal act). On the other hand, what about something like this? nypost.com/2017/05/24/burrito-shop-closes-after-being-accused-of-cultural-appropriation/Certainly, to me, I find the second example ridiculous. But many people, obviously, do not. I'm not going to suggest that high school kids are going to start boycotting the cafeteria because the lunch ladies aren't heating up the right kind of frozen taco meat. But, if you are a head football coach and one of your duties is to foster an environment of conformity and unity, how do you decide what issues are important and what issues aren't? It can't be a free-for-all, can it? _______________________________________________________________________________________________ 19Delta, Good point. Again, not making an apples to apples comparison here, but for many who took part in the Civil Rights movement, they had to answer a few questions for themselves: -Am I serious enough about this cause to suffer the potential consequences i.e. arrest, physical harm, death, loss of friends etc. These are the kind of questions I'd like to ask a kid who is considering "kneeling". If a kid is willing to suffer the potential negative consequences, then that would indicate that he feels pretty strongly about it and it's not just a lark. That's great. A very thoughtful way of looking at these situations. I think about Muhammad Ali when he refused induction into the military. It cost him several years from the prime of his career. He obviously cared deeply about what he was protesting. He was a smart guy and he knew what the costs were going to be.
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Post by murdr on Sept 14, 2017 0:31:27 GMT -6
They are participating in a team sport. The team is instructed on how they will stand when the colors are presented and the National Anthem is played. Coach tells them there will be no exceptions. One or two of the players decide that they will go to the bench and take a knee. This obviously is not how they were instructed and show individualism instead of being a together as a team. After the game the coach pulls the two players aside and tells them that their actions will not be tolerated, that they are a members of a team and will do as the other team members are told to do. If not they will be removed from the program. The next game the same two players take a knee during the National Anthem. The coach has them removed from the sidelines and dismisses them from the team after the game. I don't think the players have a leg to stand on. "By participating in the extracurricular activity, H.S. voluntarily forfeited individual speech rights and became the school’s representative:" bclawreview.org/files/2012/10/08_zeidel.pdfExactly. You're becoming a representative for the school and the team. I'm not gonna lose potential recruits and booster money because a few kids want attention.
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Post by CS on Sept 14, 2017 3:32:59 GMT -6
They are participating in a team sport. The team is instructed on how they will stand when the colors are presented and the National Anthem is played. Coach tells them there will be no exceptions. One or two of the players decide that they will go to the bench and take a knee. This obviously is not how they were instructed and show individualism instead of being a together as a team. After the game the coach pulls the two players aside and tells them that their actions will not be tolerated, that they are a members of a team and will do as the other team members are told to do. If not they will be removed from the program. The next game the same two players take a knee during the National Anthem. The coach has them removed from the sidelines and dismisses them from the team after the game. I don't think the players have a leg to stand on. "By participating in the extracurricular activity, H.S. voluntarily forfeited individual speech rights and became the school’s representative:" bclawreview.org/files/2012/10/08_zeidel.pdfExactly. You're becoming a representative for the school and the team. I'm not gonna lose potential recruits and booster money because a few kids want attention. Why not just leave them in the fieldhouse until its over? Do they HAVE to pray with the team also? I think the whole Kapernick thing was less about protest and more about pub, but I also think in this situation the coach was setting up a showdown with two snot wiping kids. As for the remark about booster money and recruits are we still talking about high school? There has been a booster club at every school I have been and I don't think any of them would hurt the program because of something like this. Its 99% players parents anyway.
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Post by brophy on Sept 14, 2017 5:11:28 GMT -6
I hear this parroted over and again in this thread as the (self righteous) justificiation from dividing/deviating from the TEAM. WHAT "injustice" are you referring to that is backed up with statisitcal evidence? The attitudes and motivations behind these victim campaigns isn't about righting some wrong, its about political power thrust, like getting aggressively hostile with a McDonalds manager because you got pickles on your McCrap burger. There is no real crime, youre just forcing someone to give you attention while you see how far you can push things to your will (and,most importantly, not be accountable for your own actions) My son is 'black'. I can assure you there is nothing holding him back in society. The only thing that will hold him back is a lack of self-reliance and personal accountability. He isn't victimized by some inherent boogeyman system of supremacy. Quite the opposite, in fact The only way to be " oppressed" in America is to have no education (no skills), no job and have ridiculous financial overhead (have a kid). This is true regardless of race, sex or orientation If we're moving the goalposts and talking about police interactions, it isn't that difficult to comprehend. Police are not judges. When police stop you, that is not the time to plead your case or offer up your best Matlock defense. Idiots that can't comprehend this, have a bad time...but its their own fault. Regards to the football team National Anthem - Is there a difference between being in the stands as the audience and sitting vs being a member of the team on the field? Do you make a distinction there between what significance the position has? You'd have to ask yourself why is this now becoming a meme when things actually were much worse in America? You'll realize this is just a fad, just like Breast Cancer Awareness month where every kid on the roster has to be mummified in pink athletic tape. None of these kids are advocates of Breast Cancer and even if they were, the high school venue isn't the place. They're simply mimicking what the NFL bozos do
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Post by murdr on Sept 14, 2017 5:29:36 GMT -6
Exactly. You're becoming a representative for the school and the team. I'm not gonna lose potential recruits and booster money because a few kids want attention. Why not just leave them in the fieldhouse until its over? Do they HAVE to pray with the team also? I think the whole Kapernick thing was less about protest and more about pub, but I also think in this situation the coach was setting up a showdown with two snot wiping kids. As for the remark about booster money and recruits are we still talking about high school? There has been a booster club at every school I have been and I don't think any of them would hurt the program because of something like this. Its 99% players parents anyway. I don't know any booster club that wouldn't. Those are usually the worst of the worst parents, from my experience, with few exceptions.
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Post by NC1974 on Sept 14, 2017 6:07:13 GMT -6
I hear this parroted over and again in this thread as the (self righteous) justificiation from dividing/deviating from the TEAM. WHAT "injustice" are you referring to that is backed up with statisitcal evidence? The attitudes and motivations behind these victim campaigns isn't about righting some wrong, its about political power thrust, like getting aggressively hostile with a McDonalds manager because you got pickles on your McCrap burger. There is no real crime, youre just forcing someone to give you attention while you see how far you can push things to your will (and,most importantly, not be accountable for your own actions) My son is 'black'. I can assure you there is nothing holding him back in society. The only thing that will hold him back is a lack of self-reliance and personal accountability. He isn't victimized by some inherent boogeyman system of supremacy. Quite the opposite, in fact The only way to be "oppressed" in America is to have no education (no skills), no job and have ridiculous financial overhead (have a kid). This is true regardless of race, sex or orientation So you deny the existence of injustice? Do believe it has ever existed? Jim Crow Laws? Redlining? Restrictive covenants that kept homeowners from selling to people of color? Predatory lending? These are all well documented historical injustices that may never have ceased if people didn't stand up to them. Or do you just believe that it is useless acknowledging them? And do you believe there is none today? If that's the case, we'll have to agree to disagree. "The only way to be "oppressed" in America is to have no education (no skills), no job and have ridiculous financial overhead (have a kid). This is true regardless of race, sex or orientation" In regards to your above quote, history supports that all of these things were made worse for people of color: Education: Brown v Board of Education No Job: Discriminatory hiring along with inferior education opportunities Ridiculous Financial Overhead: The only way for people of color to buy a home in many northern cities up through the 1960s was to agree to exorbitant interest rates, and were only allowed to buy in certain neighborhoods; look up blockbusting, redlining, restrictive covenants. On top of that, many people of color started their free lives in this country in the share cropping system, no property, and instantly in debt. None of the things I listed above are meant to paint anyone as a victim. They are just facts. I 100% agree that people need to hold themselves accountable for their own actions, not expect handouts, don't act the victim etc. But at the same time, we all need to acknowledge the real inequalities that exist or things will never change.
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Post by CS on Sept 14, 2017 6:17:17 GMT -6
Why not just leave them in the fieldhouse until its over? Do they HAVE to pray with the team also? I think the whole Kapernick thing was less about protest and more about pub, but I also think in this situation the coach was setting up a showdown with two snot wiping kids. As for the remark about booster money and recruits are we still talking about high school? There has been a booster club at every school I have been and I don't think any of them would hurt the program because of something like this. Its 99% players parents anyway. I don't know any booster club that wouldn't. Those are usually the worst of the worst parents, from my experience, with few exceptions. Then they are jacka$$es because they are just hurting their own kids. I could see them trying to get a coach fired but not taking money away from a team full of kids. And to be honest you are probably making assumptions based on your own opinions of these people. Even if there is one moron who would quit helping the vast majority of the boosters would keep helping raise money or donating money. The coach may need to polish off his resume though.
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Post by RuningOutOfOptions on Sept 14, 2017 6:17:43 GMT -6
Side note: I am not born in America, I am raised in the woods of Sweden essentially. If you believe I can't bring anything to the discussion since I have not lived in the US for longer than I have, I will remove myself from the discussion. so what are you basing any of your "evidence" on if you don't live in an American city? I am at a loss on how we reinforce the intent of competitive athletics, which is self-efficacy of constantly positively improving/contributing, while at the same time placating these wanton attitudes of endless victim-mentality that can only be addressed by further handicapping everyone (i.e. learned helplessness) take a step back from the facebook hysteria and recognize what this attitude feeds... Do these traits sound familiar? This is what we continue to reinforce to this generation and nurturing never-ending discontent, that its everyone else's fault and I'm not responsible for the outcomes in my own lifeI live in Minnesota. I said I was not BORN in or RAISED in the US. I still believe talking and trying to understand the kids is a better option than putting an ultimatum on the kids.
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Post by brophy on Sept 14, 2017 7:09:21 GMT -6
putting an ultimatum on the kids. there is no "ultimatum" There is a STANDARD players are expected to uphold when they wear the program's jersey; they represent something bigger than their own personal interests. We wouldn't entertain any other political fetish to use our program as a soapbox
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