|
Post by larrymoe on Apr 27, 2017 8:23:00 GMT -6
I don't even fail them anymore when a kid cheats on a test. Their parents, our admins, they don't care about their character or pretty much anything. They just want them to pass.
Why drive myself crazy fighting a war on my own?
|
|
|
Post by CS on Apr 27, 2017 8:38:22 GMT -6
I don't even fail them anymore when a kid cheats on a test. Their parents, our admins, they don't care about their character or pretty much anything. They just want them to pass. Why drive myself crazy fighting a war on my own? I do. If the parents don't care then it stands and if they do I look like a hero to the admin when I say that little johnny can do a make-up assignment for the credit. Then I find something online like a WebQuest or whatever that is really hard and give them an F anyway. Then I have documentation that I tried to help and the admin usually will back it up after that. Just have to know how to play the game these days
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Apr 27, 2017 8:44:14 GMT -6
I will have a different attitude at my new place I know. This place has just beat me into no longer caring.
We had a girl who needed to pass one class to graduate. Senior girl. Parents come in and throw a fit she isn't going to get to walk in graduation. Our admins say she can walk, but won't get a diploma. They continue fit. Admins say, we'll give her a diploma and she can walk, but she has to promise to make up the class. Guess what? She didn't and that was 5 years ago.
3 "NHS" girls stole a final off a teacher's desk. Got caught doing it. What happened to them? Got suspended for two days, but were allowed to take their finals because "they were good kids who just made a mistake". THEN the admins blamed the teacher and fired her. Next year, the sister of one of the girls made a joke about it in her salutatorian speech and everyone laughed about it. Hell, they even inducted one of them back into NHS the next spring. All 3 of them still make a joke of it on social media nearly monthly.
I've just quit caring because no one else does.
|
|
|
Post by bigmoot on Apr 27, 2017 8:51:42 GMT -6
I suppose the only other thing that makes me lose it is a student that is a flat-out sociopath. I have a junior right now that is absolutely brilliant in mathematics but she is sneaky, manipulative and will lie to your face without batting an eye. I caught her trying to get answers off of someone in the middle of a test. She was turned to her left, trying to talk to them and looking at their paper. I walked up, asked her for her test, told her that she had a zero and asked her to go to the office. She looks at me square in the eye and says "I haven't said a word all period, I don't know what your problem is." I caught her with her phone in the middle of class one day. The damn thing was sitting in her lap and she was texting while I was walking around the room. She saw me coming over and tucked the phone in her pocket. I asked her for it (as per school policy) and she looks up and tells me "I put the phone in the box at the front of the room, just like I am supposed to." She has pulled chit like this repeatedly this year and I cringe when her class period comes around because she's an absolute PITA. I had a meeting with her, her mother and the administration a few months back and she started off with some crocodile tears saying that "she doesn't feel comfortable in my room because I don't like her." I told her point blank that I'm not comfortable having her in the room either as I can't trust a word that comes out of her mouth. I don't take the test anymore. It takes too much away from the kids who are working hard. They get disrupted. I just give the kid an F in the book and write cheated in the comments. When they turn it in I throw it away. That way the kid has to come to me and ask about their F. They see in the comments I know they were cheating. Rarely anymore do they even address the situation. It's easier on me and the other students. Anybody else like the movie "Office Space". Dont fire the guy, just stop his paycheck...it will work itself out.
|
|
bdm
Sophomore Member
Posts: 104
|
Post by bdm on Apr 27, 2017 9:02:01 GMT -6
Kids are kids we were all kids at one point and everyone did something stupid or multiple things, its part of growing up. What I am trying to figure out is when did punishment for bad behavior become a crime? Why is fitting punishment such a terrible thing? I guess that's really the only thing that makes me rage. Admins who try to befriend the kids and let them get away with basically anything they want. I not advocating going back to paddling kids and stuff like that, but if you're a jacka** and that's how you come to school and act and you're always in trouble then why are we supposed to work so hard to save that 1? Beause I've got a whole bunch more than need my attention that actually want to be there.
|
|
|
Post by newt21 on Apr 27, 2017 9:11:07 GMT -6
Here's one, I am an unpaid assistant for our baseball team (middle school here only gets one paid coach). Our admin is forcing me to miss our away game so I can be a crowd supervisor at our home soccer game. I was told "every teacher is required to have X number of duties that they have to cover each school year and we let you out of Y of them during football season". Most places if you coach two out of the three seasons you're good on duties, but apparently not here...
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Apr 27, 2017 9:18:57 GMT -6
I caught one of MY OWN FOOTBALL players cheating and as much as it hurt me, I reported it to the principal and the national honor society he was a part of....here is what happened.....NOTHING..i asked the honor society people about it ..they said you get once chance to cheat..I swear
|
|
|
Post by CS on Apr 27, 2017 9:28:20 GMT -6
I will have a different attitude at my new place I know. This place has just beat me into no longer caring. We had a girl who needed to pass one class to graduate. Senior girl. Parents come in and throw a fit she isn't going to get to walk in graduation. Our admins say she can walk, but won't get a diploma. They continue fit. Admins say, we'll give her a diploma and she can walk, but she has to promise to make up the class. Guess what? She didn't and that was 5 years ago. 3 "NHS" girls stole a final off a teacher's desk. Got caught doing it. What happened to them? Got suspended for two days, but were allowed to take their finals because "they were good kids who just made a mistake". THEN the admins blamed the teacher and fired her. Next year, the sister of one of the girls made a joke about it in her salutatorian speech and everyone laughed about it. Hell, they even inducted one of them back into NHS the next spring. All 3 of them still make a joke of it on social media nearly monthly. I've just quit caring because no one else does. WOW! That's pretty pathetic
|
|
|
Post by **** on Apr 27, 2017 9:34:11 GMT -6
I will have a different attitude at my new place I know. This place has just beat me into no longer caring. We had a girl who needed to pass one class to graduate. Senior girl. Parents come in and throw a fit she isn't going to get to walk in graduation. Our admins say she can walk, but won't get a diploma. They continue fit. Admins say, we'll give her a diploma and she can walk, but she has to promise to make up the class. Guess what? She didn't and that was 5 years ago. 3 "NHS" girls stole a final off a teacher's desk. Got caught doing it. What happened to them? Got suspended for two days, but were allowed to take their finals because "they were good kids who just made a mistake". THEN the admins blamed the teacher and fired her. Next year, the sister of one of the girls made a joke about it in her salutatorian speech and everyone laughed about it. Hell, they even inducted one of them back into NHS the next spring. All 3 of them still make a joke of it on social media nearly monthly. I've just quit caring because no one else does. Get out of that chit hole
|
|
|
Post by carookie on Apr 27, 2017 9:46:57 GMT -6
Kids are kids we were all kids at one point and everyone did something stupid or multiple things, its part of growing up. What I am trying to figure out is when did punishment for bad behavior become a crime? Why is fitting punishment such a terrible thing? I guess that's really the only thing that makes me rage. Admins who try to befriend the kids and let them get away with basically anything they want. I not advocating going back to paddling kids and stuff like that, but if you're a jacka** and that's how you come to school and act and you're always in trouble then why are we supposed to work so hard to save that 1? Beause I've got a whole bunch more than need my attention that actually want to be there. I think there are two reasons why it is becoming more and more difficult to enforce accountability and punishments: 1) Diagnosing new disorders- I am sure many people here believe that many of the new disorders being diagnosed are a bunch of BS ("we didn't have ADD back in my day"), and moreover they being overly diagnosed as many elementary school counselors are rewarded for the amount of IEPs they can write. Regardless, the issue isn't how many new disorders we find, or the validity of said disorders, the issue is how we handle them and allow them to be a crutch that validates misbehavior. We now justify allowing someone to behave wrongly because we have a name for the cause of their misbehavior; it has in essence become a disability, and to punish someone for their disability would be wrong. 2) Society has become increasingly litigious- If a parent wants to make a stink about something it can be more costly to the school to fight it then to simply give in. Students recognize this, and see that they have the upper hand in disputes with teachers in that society mandates that they specifically are at school, it doesn't mandate that you specifically be a teacher.
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Apr 27, 2017 11:09:08 GMT -6
I will have a different attitude at my new place I know. This place has just beat me into no longer caring. We had a girl who needed to pass one class to graduate. Senior girl. Parents come in and throw a fit she isn't going to get to walk in graduation. Our admins say she can walk, but won't get a diploma. They continue fit. Admins say, we'll give her a diploma and she can walk, but she has to promise to make up the class. Guess what? She didn't and that was 5 years ago. 3 "NHS" girls stole a final off a teacher's desk. Got caught doing it. What happened to them? Got suspended for two days, but were allowed to take their finals because "they were good kids who just made a mistake". THEN the admins blamed the teacher and fired her. Next year, the sister of one of the girls made a joke about it in her salutatorian speech and everyone laughed about it. Hell, they even inducted one of them back into NHS the next spring. All 3 of them still make a joke of it on social media nearly monthly. I've just quit caring because no one else does. Get out of that chit hole Oh, I am. Tried for a long time to fight the good fight, but you can't swim against the current forever. On our teacher's institute day on the first day back from Christmas we watched Paper Tigers. I'm not saying those are not legitimate issues, but it's not every kid we have like our super tried to suggest. Some kids are just a-holes that need discipline.
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Apr 27, 2017 11:13:46 GMT -6
Get out of that chit hole Oh, I am. Tried for a long time to fight the good fight, but you can't swim against the current forever. On our teacher's institute day on the first day back from Christmas we watched Paper Tigers. I'm not saying those are not legitimate issues, but it's not every kid we have like our super tried to suggest. Some kids are just a-holes that need discipline. WTF is "Paper Tigers"?
|
|
|
Post by CS on Apr 27, 2017 11:50:57 GMT -6
Oh, I am. Tried for a long time to fight the good fight, but you can't swim against the current forever. On our teacher's institute day on the first day back from Christmas we watched Paper Tigers. I'm not saying those are not legitimate issues, but it's not every kid we have like our super tried to suggest. Some kids are just a-holes that need discipline. WTF is "Paper Tigers"? www.imdb.com/title/tt4076258/
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Apr 27, 2017 11:57:10 GMT -6
We had to suffer through that film once too... Administrators don't understand that reservation schools are completely different animals. Trust me, I've taught at one.. You're not just dealing with poverty; you're dealing with an entirely different culture. But, I won't get into it any further than that. They need to show "Lean On Me" if they really want to get a grasp on how to handle f-cked up schools.
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Apr 27, 2017 11:59:13 GMT -6
Had a kid this fall get in his truck during first hour and go home on a Friday. Monday comes around, principal calls him in to the office and talks to him. No detention, no suspension, nothing. Got a talking to.
And maybe a hug.
|
|
|
Post by Coach Vint on Apr 27, 2017 13:17:11 GMT -6
Kids need discipline and structure. Period. They need expectations and accountability. Many of our school districts have absolutely failed when it comes to discipline. The higher ups take the path of least resistance. The only school I have worked at that was "exemplary" held students accountable. In many wealthier schools the parents don't let this happen. In many inner city schools the powers that be won't let this happen. Too many people want to justify negative behavior.
Our education system is a reflection on our society. Since politicians care only about the next election cycle and have legislated our schools to failure, I fear we won't see change in our lifetime.
|
|
|
Post by wolverine55 on Apr 27, 2017 13:25:23 GMT -6
Kids are kids we were all kids at one point and everyone did something stupid or multiple things, its part of growing up. What I am trying to figure out is when did punishment for bad behavior become a crime? Why is fitting punishment such a terrible thing? I guess that's really the only thing that makes me rage. Admins who try to befriend the kids and let them get away with basically anything they want. I not advocating going back to paddling kids and stuff like that, but if you're a jacka** and that's how you come to school and act and you're always in trouble then why are we supposed to work so hard to save that 1? Beause I've got a whole bunch more than need my attention that actually want to be there. I think there are two reasons why it is becoming more and more difficult to enforce accountability and punishments: 1) Diagnosing new disorders- I am sure many people here believe that many of the new disorders being diagnosed are a bunch of BS ("we didn't have ADD back in my day"), and moreover they being overly diagnosed as many elementary school counselors are rewarded for the amount of IEPs they can write. Regardless, the issue isn't how many new disorders we find, or the validity of said disorders, the issue is how we handle them and allow them to be a crutch that validates misbehavior. We now justify allowing someone to behave wrongly because we have a name for the cause of their misbehavior; it has in essence become a disability, and to punish someone for their disability would be wrong. 2) Society has become increasingly litigious- If a parent wants to make a stink about something it can be more costly to the school to fight it then to simply give in. Students recognize this, and see that they have the upper hand in disputes with teachers in that society mandates that they specifically are at school, it doesn't mandate that you specifically be a teacher. I think most of the disorders are legitimate, although I tend to agreee with over-diagnosis. The one I scoff at--and I'm a SPED teacher--is Oppositional Defiance Disorder.
|
|
|
Post by carookie on Apr 27, 2017 13:32:44 GMT -6
I think there are two reasons why it is becoming more and more difficult to enforce accountability and punishments: 1) Diagnosing new disorders- I am sure many people here believe that many of the new disorders being diagnosed are a bunch of BS ("we didn't have ADD back in my day"), and moreover they being overly diagnosed as many elementary school counselors are rewarded for the amount of IEPs they can write. Regardless, the issue isn't how many new disorders we find, or the validity of said disorders, the issue is how we handle them and allow them to be a crutch that validates misbehavior. We now justify allowing someone to behave wrongly because we have a name for the cause of their misbehavior; it has in essence become a disability, and to punish someone for their disability would be wrong. 2) Society has become increasingly litigious- If a parent wants to make a stink about something it can be more costly to the school to fight it then to simply give in. Students recognize this, and see that they have the upper hand in disputes with teachers in that society mandates that they specifically are at school, it doesn't mandate that you specifically be a teacher. I think most of the disorders are legitimate, although I tend to agreee with over-diagnosis. The one I scoff at--and I'm a SPED teacher--is Oppositional Defiance Disorder. Thats the one I was mostly alluding to; and for the sake of argument lets grant it full legitimacy. Just because we have diagnosed it why do we have to accept the behavior it elicits? If someone harms another person are they free from consequence because they have ODD? To me that is the root of the issue (well that and the threat of a lawsuit).
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Apr 27, 2017 13:32:49 GMT -6
Education took a huge hit back in the mid 2000's when NCLB came into place. The media painted teachers in a terrible light (babysitters that only work half of the year...), reported false information about tenured teachers (yes, they can be fired...) and society turned against teachers in a hurry.
Much of this was due to the "business" approach put forth by NCLB. According to DC and the media, it's our job as teachers to make sure kids are passing standardized tests and "competing" with the rest of the first world. They compared it to the private sector and made a grey profession black and white: kids don't pass tests, teachers aren't doing their jobs and teachers should be fired. Period. They fail to realize that a) the rest of the world runs a tracked system where the only the cream of the crop are tested for college we're comparing ALL of our kids to their top 10% and b) we don't have consequences in place for kids that fail anymore because -GASP- A KID MIGHT FAIL!
I will say, this country is going to have to change it's tune in a hurry for one simple reason: people aren't going into teaching anymore. The system is toxic and the pay is chit so why would people become teachers? So, either class sizes are going to continue to grow which makes for a chit education environment or states are going to start making it very easy to become a teacher which will mean we have few qualified teachers. We're already seeing this in some states... A guy has an associates degree in history, can't find a job in the private sector for obvious reasons so, HEY LET'S LET 'EM BE A TEACHER!.
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Apr 27, 2017 13:36:37 GMT -6
Kids are kids we were all kids at one point and everyone did something stupid or multiple things, its part of growing up. What I am trying to figure out is when did punishment for bad behavior become a crime? Why is fitting punishment such a terrible thing? I guess that's really the only thing that makes me rage. Admins who try to befriend the kids and let them get away with basically anything they want. I not advocating going back to paddling kids and stuff like that, but if you're a jacka** and that's how you come to school and act and you're always in trouble then why are we supposed to work so hard to save that 1? Beause I've got a whole bunch more than need my attention that actually want to be there. I think there are two reasons why it is becoming more and more difficult to enforce accountability and punishments: 1) Diagnosing new disorders- I am sure many people here believe that many of the new disorders being diagnosed are a bunch of BS ("we didn't have ADD back in my day"), and moreover they being overly diagnosed as many elementary school counselors are rewarded for the amount of IEPs they can write. Regardless, the issue isn't how many new disorders we find, or the validity of said disorders, the issue is how we handle them and allow them to be a crutch that validates misbehavior. We now justify allowing someone to behave wrongly because we have a name for the cause of their misbehavior; it has in essence become a disability, and to punish someone for their disability would be wrong. 2) Society has become increasingly litigious- If a parent wants to make a stink about something it can be more costly to the school to fight it then to simply give in. Students recognize this, and see that they have the upper hand in disputes with teachers in that society mandates that they specifically are at school, it doesn't mandate that you specifically be a teacher. Lol.... The new one is "Opposition Defiance Disorder". I've seen two cases of this pop up in the school this year and it's a joke. A kid is an argumentative little chit so we need to accommodate him because he has a "mental health diagnosis". I worked as a mental health counselor for awhile and these idiots have no idea what an ODD kid actually acts like.
|
|
|
Post by nicku on Apr 27, 2017 13:47:55 GMT -6
The inability of young people to refer to teachers, coaches, and administration politely. I may be a 24 year old male coach with insanely good fashion sense and rugged good looks: but I am not your "dude", "bro", or "man". And I never will be. You don't have to address me as "sir" or salute me when I walk in. But if if I hear another "yep" or "huh" from a student/player I am gonna lose it. I am all about kids expressing themselves and generally enjoying life. I don't care how you wear your hair, what kind of music you listen to, or if your pants are three quarters of an inch below your waistline. But good lord, just talk to people as if you have an ounce of respect for them. It isn't that difficult.
And I think many of us would agree that this is caused by a lack of respect in the household that carries over to us.
|
|
|
Post by jml on Apr 27, 2017 21:53:41 GMT -6
When kids asked me "What are we doing today?" before class started, my reply was "This, that, and the other thing." I would always say Torture, pain, suffering, the usual. Most of them learned to stop asking.
|
|
|
Post by rsmith627 on Apr 28, 2017 3:59:31 GMT -6
When you give kids 3 class periods to work on a project and you can tell they threw it together in 5 minutes, then they're mad that they failed.
|
|
|
Post by syphrit7 on Apr 28, 2017 5:45:05 GMT -6
When the guidance counselor gives them STRESS BALLS that they bring to my room and cause a distraction.
|
|
|
Post by utchuckd on Apr 28, 2017 6:11:19 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by rosey65 on Apr 28, 2017 6:42:29 GMT -6
I think most of the disorders are legitimate, although I tend to agreee with over-diagnosis. The one I scoff at--and I'm a SPED teacher--is Oppositional Defiance Disorder. Thats the one I was mostly alluding to; and for the sake of argument lets grant it full legitimacy. Just because we have diagnosed it why do we have to accept the behavior it elicits? If someone harms another person are they free from consequence because they have ODD? To me that is the root of the issue (well that and the threat of a lawsuit). ODD and EBD makes up half of our football team. We remind them on a regular basis, "you aren't allowed to be crazy once you leave High School." Colleges kick you out, jobs fire you. I understand the need to help and assist these kids, but the system sets them up for failure outside of school. To keep my soapbox small...accountability has been taken away from students and parents. Here in FL, EVERYTHING is tied to grades, test scores, and graduation rates. In the eyes of the state, the quality of education is meaningless as long as specific cohorts hit specific benchmarks. --here's an example: we are (usually) an A school, surrounded by F schools. We are viewed as a beacon of "All Things Perfect" in our area. We are the same inner-city school as our neighbors, but we have an IB magnet program that boosts our scores. A few years back, it was coming down to us needing 1 of 7 pre-identified "at-risk" kids to graduate and maintain our "A" status. The kids had skipped their finals, there was a massive manhunt to find just ONE of the kids over the summer, make em christmas-tree the thing, so we could pass them with a D. 1 girl was found at a strip club a few miles away. An employee snagged her when she was coming off the stage, drove her to school, the girl took 2 finals wearing her g-string and overcoat, then got driven back to work. Had we not found her, the school would have been penalized for not enough at-risk kids "graduate." --the nest year, we got penalized to a B. We were required to have 95% of kids sit for standardized tests. We were 3 short. A guidance councilor mis-counted, the whole school was penalized, we didnt get our $900 A-school bonus. Kids are allowed to do whatever they want, provided the school can show the correct number of check-marks in some pre-determined boxes. Personal accountability has dropped every year, as each class gets further indoctrinated into the system, and will continue to get worse every year.
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Apr 28, 2017 7:20:13 GMT -6
--here's an example: we are (usually) an A school, surrounded by F schools. We are viewed as a beacon of "All Things Perfect" in our area. We are the same inner-city school as our neighbors, but we have an IB magnet program that boosts our scores. A few years back, it was coming down to us needing 1 of 7 pre-identified "at-risk" kids to graduate and maintain our "A" status. The kids had skipped their finals, there was a massive manhunt to find just ONE of the kids over the summer, make em christmas-tree the thing, so we could pass them with a D. 1 girl was found at a strip club a few miles away. An employee snagged her when she was coming off the stage, drove her to school, the girl took 2 finals wearing her g-string and overcoat, then got driven back to work. Had we not found her, the school would have been penalized for not enough at-risk kids "graduate." This is one of the best stories I've ever read on here.
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Apr 28, 2017 7:21:57 GMT -6
When the guidance counselor gives them STRESS BALLS that they bring to my room and cause a distraction. I think the fact that we keep telling these kids they're so damned stressed is what stresses them out. Whatever happened to telling a kid to just suck it up and go? That's life? I guess I still do that, but that's part of why the poverty crowd thinks I'm a dick.
|
|
|
Post by carookie on Apr 28, 2017 7:58:42 GMT -6
Thats the one I was mostly alluding to; and for the sake of argument lets grant it full legitimacy. Just because we have diagnosed it why do we have to accept the behavior it elicits? If someone harms another person are they free from consequence because they have ODD? To me that is the root of the issue (well that and the threat of a lawsuit). ODD and EBD makes up half of our football team. We remind them on a regular basis, "you aren't allowed to be crazy once you leave High School." Colleges kick you out, jobs fire you. I understand the need to help and assist these kids, but the system sets them up for failure outside of school. To keep my soapbox small...accountability has been taken away from students and parents. Here in FL, EVERYTHING is tied to grades, test scores, and graduation rates. In the eyes of the state, the quality of education is meaningless as long as specific cohorts hit specific benchmarks. --here's an example: we are (usually) an A school, surrounded by F schools. We are viewed as a beacon of "All Things Perfect" in our area. We are the same inner-city school as our neighbors, but we have an IB magnet program that boosts our scores. A few years back, it was coming down to us needing 1 of 7 pre-identified "at-risk" kids to graduate and maintain our "A" status. The kids had skipped their finals, there was a massive manhunt to find just ONE of the kids over the summer, make em christmas-tree the thing, so we could pass them with a D. 1 girl was found at a strip club a few miles away. An employee snagged her when she was coming off the stage, drove her to school, the girl took 2 finals wearing her g-string and overcoat, then got driven back to work. Had we not found her, the school would have been penalized for not enough at-risk kids "graduate." --the nest year, we got penalized to a B. We were required to have 95% of kids sit for standardized tests. We were 3 short. A guidance councilor mis-counted, the whole school was penalized, we didnt get our $900 A-school bonus. Kids are allowed to do whatever they want, provided the school can show the correct number of check-marks in some pre-determined boxes. Personal accountability has dropped every year, as each class gets further indoctrinated into the system, and will continue to get worse every year. Did anyone bother to call the guy out who found her at the strip club? I can see this setting a precedent; any time a student goes missing numerous volunteers call out, "I'll check the gentleman's clubs."
|
|
|
Post by lions23 on Apr 28, 2017 8:01:21 GMT -6
We tell them all of the time-that diagnosis of said disorder isn't your fault, but it is your responsibility. So you are going to have to learn how to become productive despite it. Just like another kid with diabetes, your life and choices are going to have to be different than others.
Fair doesn't exist. Equal doesn't exist.
|
|