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Post by tabs52 on Dec 20, 2016 4:45:41 GMT -6
I didn't hear the uproar when the DT I believe from Oklahama, left in the middle of the season to start prepping for the draft
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Post by CS on Dec 20, 2016 5:13:26 GMT -6
I have never been forced to make a decision with that much money on the line but let's call a spade a spade. These guys quit their teams at the end of the season and every one of us, more than likely, has had a kid quit on his team late and thought poorly of that kid.
What about that lineman who has been busting his a$$ trying to win games and putting these guys in a position to make millions? They may be stand up guys in real life but this isn't a high character decision they made.
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Post by 19delta on Dec 20, 2016 6:27:04 GMT -6
What about the guys on the team that have no shot to play after college? And want a shot at winning a bowl game. Getting to a bowl game isn't guaranteed (though there are 1,000 of them now). The other guys on the team have a better chance at winning if their "dude" is playing. Just throwing that out there. MaCaffery, et. al. could get hurt lifting or running during their "training". Just never know. Any guy who harbors ill will towards a high-profile teammate who chooses to opt out of a largely meaningless exhibition game is an a-hole. Those guys simply need to tell their stud, NFL-bound teammate "thank you" for getting them to the game.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 6:36:04 GMT -6
I didn't hear the uproar when the DT I believe from Oklahama, left in the middle of the season to start prepping for the draft I forgot about that. Guys are already "opting out" of regular season games.
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Post by 19delta on Dec 20, 2016 6:36:47 GMT -6
I have never been forced to make a decision with that much money on the line but let's call a spade a spade. These guys quit their teams at the end of the season and every one of us, more than likely, has had a kid quit on his team late and thought poorly of that kid. What about that lineman who has been busting his a$$ trying to win games and putting these guys in a position to make millions? They may be stand up guys in real life but this isn't a high character decision they made. I think those are entirely different circumstances.
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Post by spos21ram on Dec 20, 2016 6:38:35 GMT -6
I have never been forced to make a decision with that much money on the line but let's call a spade a spade. These guys quit their teams at the end of the season and every one of us, more than likely, has had a kid quit on his team late and thought poorly of that kid. What about that lineman who has been busting his a$$ trying to win games and putting these guys in a position to make millions? They may be stand up guys in real life but this isn't a high character decision they made. If those linemen battled injuries this season and were set to get drafted in the top 15 and earn a multi million dollar signing bonus then they would be opting out as well. Barely any NFL stars play in the pre season exhibition games and they're getting paid for it. What's the difference?
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Post by CS on Dec 20, 2016 6:40:30 GMT -6
I have never been forced to make a decision with that much money on the line but let's call a spade a spade. These guys quit their teams at the end of the season and every one of us, more than likely, has had a kid quit on his team late and thought poorly of that kid. What about that lineman who has been busting his a$$ trying to win games and putting these guys in a position to make millions? They may be stand up guys in real life but this isn't a high character decision they made. I think those are entirely different circumstances. They are different circumstances but they are still related to each other. Essentially what these guys are saying is that for all the hard work someone else put in to help them get the opportunity to make that money means nothing to them and they throw their deuces up. Yes they are very talented and have both worked hard to get to where they are but they didn't do it alone.
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Post by CS on Dec 20, 2016 6:44:07 GMT -6
I have never been forced to make a decision with that much money on the line but let's call a spade a spade. These guys quit their teams at the end of the season and every one of us, more than likely, has had a kid quit on his team late and thought poorly of that kid. What about that lineman who has been busting his a$$ trying to win games and putting these guys in a position to make millions? They may be stand up guys in real life but this isn't a high character decision they made. If those linemen battled injuries this season and were set to get drafted in the top 15 and earn a multi million dollar signing bonus then they would be opting out as well. Barely any NFL stars play in the pre season exhibition games and they're getting paid for it. What's the difference? I would be willing to bet that is a business decision made by owners who have millions invested in talent and if he gets hurt then his jersey doesn't sale as well. You really don't know what those lineman would be doing. There is plenty of talent playing their bowl games that are going to be first rounders.
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Post by spos21ram on Dec 20, 2016 6:52:53 GMT -6
If those linemen battled injuries this season and were set to get drafted in the top 15 and earn a multi million dollar signing bonus then they would be opting out as well. Barely any NFL stars play in the pre season exhibition games and they're getting paid for it. What's the difference? I would be willing to bet that is a business decision made by owners who have millions invested in talent and if he gets hurt then his jersey doesn't sale as well. You really don't know what those lineman would be doing. There is plenty of talent playing their bowl games that are going to be first rounders. The 2 players opting out have had injuries this year and their draft stock is cemented right now....unless they get hurt. It's a business decision like you said. 99.9% of college players are not an automatic top 15 pick right now and most of the ones that are, are playing in the CFB playoff. Most of these possible future NFL players are banking on a good performance in a bowl game and the senior bowl to boost their draft chances. Those guys have to play.
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Post by spos21ram on Dec 20, 2016 7:00:16 GMT -6
Most of us are HS coaches here so it's hard to understand these players' rationale. All I can think of is if a magic genie came to our best player and said you and your family would be set for life (enter a $ amount)...only catch is you cannot get hurt in your non league game coming up.
I don't see how any of us would tell the kid he should play.
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Post by blb on Dec 20, 2016 7:06:23 GMT -6
Just the latest unintended consequence of expanding the playoffs and number of bowls.
BITD the bowl season - which essentially was a week long and mostly New Years' Eve and Day - was one of the best times of the year. It was an ACCOMPLISHMENT to make it to a bowl.
Now even teams that finish 6-6, in bottom half of their league are going to "bowls," which have been reduced to made for TV exhibition games.
Some teams that have had very good seasons but don't make the playoffs aren't highly motivated to play in the bowls they've been chosen for and their performance reflects it.
One of American sports' greatest traditions ruined by money, and it will only get worse.
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Post by CS on Dec 20, 2016 7:06:42 GMT -6
I would be willing to bet that is a business decision made by owners who have millions invested in talent and if he gets hurt then his jersey doesn't sale as well. You really don't know what those lineman would be doing. There is plenty of talent playing their bowl games that are going to be first rounders. The 2 players opting out have had injuries this year and their draft stock is cemented right now....unless they get hurt. It's a business decision like you said. 99.9% of college players are not an automatic top 15 pick right now and most of the ones that are, are playing in the CFB playoff. Most of these possible future NFL players are banking on a good performance in a bowl game and the senior bowl to boost their draft chances. Those guys have to play. We will go round and round with this all day but you can't argue that it's a selfish decision. If you take the money out of it those guys play period. Their decision to opt out on their teammates is low character.
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Post by CS on Dec 20, 2016 7:11:19 GMT -6
Just the latest unexpected consequence of expanding the playoffs and number of bowls. BITD the bowl season - which essentially was a week long and mostly New Years' Eve and Day - was one of the best times of the year. It was an ACCOMPLISHMENT to make it to a bowl. Now even teams that finish 6-6, in bottom half of their league are going to "bowls," which have been reduced to made for TV exhibition games. Some teams that have had very good seasons but don't make the playoffs aren't highly motivated to play in the bowls they've been chosen for and their performance reflects it. One of American sports' greatest traditions ruined by money, and it will only get worse. This is it right here. I don't see it as an accomplishment when coaches say they have made a bowl 5 yrs in a row. You have to be absolutely awful not to make a bowl game these days. Watered down the bowl season. I liken it to 5 teams in our state make the playoffs in 8 team leagues. Just making the playoffs in that scenario isn't that great of an accomplishment.
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Post by pvogel on Dec 20, 2016 7:29:58 GMT -6
I don't know about mccaffery because I haven't really followed stanford football this year but I know Fournette has been banged up for the late half of the season. And there were questions in general about the bowl fitting his recovery time. So It makes a lot of sense for him.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 7:54:14 GMT -6
Just the latest unintended consequence of expanding the playoffs and number of bowls. BITD the bowl season - which essentially was a week long and mostly New Years' Eve and Day - was one of the best times of the year. It was an ACCOMPLISHMENT to make it to a bowl. Now even teams that finish 6-6, in bottom half of their league are going to "bowls," which have been reduced to made for TV exhibition games. Some teams that have had very good seasons but don't make the playoffs aren't highly motivated to play in the bowls they've been chosen for and their performance reflects it. One of American sports' greatest traditions ruined by money, and it will only get worse. There are literally more bowl slots than there are teams with .500 records now. This year there were two teams with 5-7 records who got in because there were no 6-6 teams left. There were a couple of others who didn't win enough games against FBS level competition, but were also given bowl slots to fill those last few. That is a problem and it's only going to get worse. There are plans to keep adding bowls over the next several years.
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Post by groundchuck on Dec 20, 2016 8:09:36 GMT -6
I am disappointed but I see it. I would rather future NFL stars like McCaffery or Fournett just go after their junior year and bypass their whole senior year. I equate it a little to the high school multi sport star deciding he is giving up football to focus on basketball because he's concerned he might sprain an ankle.
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Post by blb on Dec 20, 2016 8:11:39 GMT -6
I am disappointed but I see it. I would rather future NFL stars like McCaffery or Fournett just go after their junior year and bypass their whole senior year. I equate it a little to the high school multi sport star deciding he is giving up football to focus on basketball because he's concerned he might sprain an ankle.
McCaffrey and Fournette are both Juniors.
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Post by blb on Dec 20, 2016 8:13:51 GMT -6
A few years ago Nick Saban attributed Alabama getting drubbed in their bowl game to a lot of his players being more concerned with their NFL prospects-draft status than winning the game.
Would the Tide have been better off if those players hadn't played?
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Post by coachcb on Dec 20, 2016 8:14:03 GMT -6
It's not just about the money, in my mind. Why would these guys want to risk their ability to play the game for a few more years? Plus, as others have pointed out, this wouldn't be an issue if there was a REAL FBS play-off.
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Post by wingtol on Dec 20, 2016 8:16:06 GMT -6
It's totally okay for the coaches to jump ship and leave teams this time of year after I am sure telling guys "I love it here and will be here forever..." to get them to play for them but not okay for the guys who bash their heads in so these coaches can make millions to say "It's not worth it for my future to play in the Sun Bowl".
Heard on the radio today the host asking if someone came to you right now and said in six months you are going to start a job in your exact field you work in now for 20 million dollars but you have to quit now and not work for six months what would you do?
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Post by Defcord on Dec 20, 2016 8:26:40 GMT -6
The 2 players opting out have had injuries this year and their draft stock is cemented right now....unless they get hurt. It's a business decision like you said. 99.9% of college players are not an automatic top 15 pick right now and most of the ones that are, are playing in the CFB playoff. Most of these possible future NFL players are banking on a good performance in a bowl game and the senior bowl to boost their draft chances. Those guys have to play. We will go round and round with this all day but you can't argue that it's a selfish decision. If you take the money out of it those guys play period. Their decision to opt out on their teammates is low character. I think it is selfish. I am not sure it is low character. There are no rules being broken and they are protecting their futures.
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Post by blb on Dec 20, 2016 8:33:29 GMT -6
Jadeveon Clowney received a lot of advice to sit out his Junior season at South Carolina to avoid getting injured-ruining his top draft pick status and potentially losing millions of dollars, especially in light of what happened to Marcus Lattimore.
He played as a Junior, and there was a lot of criticism of his effort, that he was "saving" himself for the NFL.
Should he have sat the season out?
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Post by gibbs72 on Dec 20, 2016 8:34:31 GMT -6
To me, if the NCAA is going to create any kind of legislative language for this, then they also need to address coaches leaving their teams before bowl games. Either everyone must stay or everyone has a right to go ("business decision") if they choose.
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Post by spos21ram on Dec 20, 2016 8:37:43 GMT -6
To me, if the NCAA is going to create any kind of legislative language for this, then they also need to address coaches leaving their teams before bowl games. Either everyone must stay or everyone has a right to go ("business decision") if they choose. I don't think the NCAA can do anything about this. All the player would have to do is dress for the game and stand on the sideline.
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Post by fantom on Dec 20, 2016 8:43:41 GMT -6
Just the latest unintended consequence of expanding the playoffs and number of bowls. BITD the bowl season - which essentially was a week long and mostly New Years' Eve and Day - was one of the best times of the year. It was an ACCOMPLISHMENT to make it to a bowl. Now even teams that finish 6-6, in bottom half of their league are going to "bowls," which have been reduced to made for TV exhibition games. Some teams that have had very good seasons but don't make the playoffs aren't highly motivated to play in the bowls they've been chosen for and their performance reflects it. One of American sports' greatest traditions ruined by money, and it will only get worse. Ruined for who? Not the players. Bowl games are (mostly) a great deal for the players. They get a week in (mostly) a nice locale, with plenty of free time and per diem to spend during that them. They get bundle of swag (Varies from pretty great to "Meh"). They get travel money (And they can make a lot of cash if they handle it right). Bowl games are a good deal (Mostly) for the players. I don't care about most of the bowl games either. What do I do? I don't watch the games that I don't care about.
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dbeck84
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Post by dbeck84 on Dec 20, 2016 8:50:14 GMT -6
So would it also be acceptable for major players to sit out early season non-conference games? If I play at a power 5 school and am a first-round draft pick, is drubbing a team from the SunBelt by 40 points going to help my draft status? Maybe players should opt out of those games too.
P.S. My apologies to anyone who might be affiliated with the SunBelt Conference.
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Post by spos21ram on Dec 20, 2016 9:12:15 GMT -6
Just the latest unintended consequence of expanding the playoffs and number of bowls. BITD the bowl season - which essentially was a week long and mostly New Years' Eve and Day - was one of the best times of the year. It was an ACCOMPLISHMENT to make it to a bowl. Now even teams that finish 6-6, in bottom half of their league are going to "bowls," which have been reduced to made for TV exhibition games. Some teams that have had very good seasons but don't make the playoffs aren't highly motivated to play in the bowls they've been chosen for and their performance reflects it. One of American sports' greatest traditions ruined by money, and it will only get worse. Ruined for who? Not the players. Bowl games are (mostly) a great deal for the players. They get a week in (mostly) a nice locale, with plenty of free time and per diem to spend during that them. They get bundle of swag (Varies from pretty great to "Meh"). They get travel money (And they can make a lot of cash if they handle it right). Bowl games are a good deal (Mostly) for the players. I don't care about most of the bowl games either. What do I do? I don't watch the games that I don't care about. The argument is that the bowls are so watered down that 6-6 teams dont deserve to be playing at these tropical places.
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Post by fantom on Dec 20, 2016 9:13:34 GMT -6
Ruined for who? Not the players. Bowl games are (mostly) a great deal for the players. They get a week in (mostly) a nice locale, with plenty of free time and per diem to spend during that them. They get bundle of swag (Varies from pretty great to "Meh"). They get travel money (And they can make a lot of cash if they handle it right). Bowl games are a good deal (Mostly) for the players. I don't care about most of the bowl games either. What do I do? I don't watch the games that I don't care about. The argument is that the bowls are so watered down that 6-6 teams dont deserve to be playing at these tropical places. So what?
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Post by spos21ram on Dec 20, 2016 9:13:46 GMT -6
So would it also be acceptable for major players to sit out early season non-conference games? If I play at a power 5 school and am a first-round draft pick, is drubbing a team from the SunBelt by 40 points going to help my draft status? Maybe players should opt out of those games too. P.S. My apologies to anyone who might be affiliated with the SunBelt Conference. Non Conference games in CFB are just as important as Conference games. But don't we see what you described already? Johnny has a lingering ankle injury. We are playing a 1-7 Sun Belt team. We are going to sit Johnny today and make sure he's 100% for Alabama next week.
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Post by funkfriss on Dec 20, 2016 9:18:07 GMT -6
Couple thoughts...
First, for those of you saying a bowl game is meaningless I question where our perception of sports has gone. I never played in a meaningless game and I've never coached in a meaningless game. Just because a game has no implication for playoffs or no other perceived reward it is meaningless? Sorry guys, I'm not following that logic.
Second, I'll give you a somewhat comparable HS scenario that happened years ago and see how this sits with you all. We lost a close week 7 game which put us out of the playoffs. So we were playing two "meaningless" games. Two of our better players quit so they wouldn't get hurt before wrestling season. Both were great wrestlers who had legitimate shots at State and chances to wrestle in college (one wrestled at a big D1 school). You support their decision as a HS coach?
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