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Post by spos21ram on Dec 20, 2016 17:41:05 GMT -6
Name the other guys that aren't in the CFB playoffs or one of the big daddy's, like the Rose Bowl. These guys were talked into this by the way. I already posted what I thought about it. Myles Garret from A&M is mentioned as a top 5 pick. Mitch Trubisky from North Carolina State is the #1 pick on some mock drafts. Garret is definitely a top 5 pick. The UNC QB, although could be the first QB taken, really can't afford not to play another game IMO. There's still question marks about him. Neither one of them play RB though. There's a life span on RB's and it's not very long.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2016 18:10:37 GMT -6
Couple thoughts... First, for those of you saying a bowl game is meaningless I question where our perception of sports has gone. I never played in a meaningless game and I've never coached in a meaningless game. Just because a game has no implication for playoffs or no other perceived reward it is meaningless? Sorry guys, I'm not following that logic. Second, I'll give you a somewhat comparable HS scenario that happened years ago and see how this sits with you all. We lost a close week 7 game which put us out of the playoffs. So we were playing two "meaningless" games. Two of our better players quit so they wouldn't get hurt before wrestling season. Both were great wrestlers who had legitimate shots at State and chances to wrestle in college (one wrestled at a big D1 school). You support their decision as a HS coach? I would be interested to see what many of the coaches here think about that 2nd paragraph. I think it is a pretty fair analogy to the fournette and Mccaffrey situations. The only difference may be the presence of an injury. I don't know about McCaffrey, but Fournette has been nursing an ankle injury the entire year.
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Post by 19delta on Dec 20, 2016 18:20:10 GMT -6
Couple thoughts... First, for those of you saying a bowl game is meaningless I question where our perception of sports has gone. I never played in a meaningless game and I've never coached in a meaningless game. Just because a game has no implication for playoffs or no other perceived reward it is meaningless? Sorry guys, I'm not following that logic. Second, I'll give you a somewhat comparable HS scenario that happened years ago and see how this sits with you all. We lost a close week 7 game which put us out of the playoffs. So we were playing two "meaningless" games. Two of our better players quit so they wouldn't get hurt before wrestling season. Both were great wrestlers who had legitimate shots at State and chances to wrestle in college (one wrestled at a big D1 school). You support their decision as a HS coach? I would be interested to see what many of the coaches here think about that 2nd paragraph. I think it is a pretty fair analogy to the fournette and Mccaffrey situations. The only difference may be the presence of an injury. I don't know about McCaffrey, but Fournette has been nursing an ankle injury the entire year. So you had a D-I athlete on your football team and you couldn't make the playoffs? Sorry, dude...I'm with the kids who quit the team on this one. If I was their coach would I be angry that they quit? Sure. But what credibility do I have to stand on? I'm a high school football coach with a D-I athlete and I couldn't make the playoffs. No one is going to feel sorry for me. That kid needs to do what's best for him. I surely didn't.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2016 18:28:02 GMT -6
I would be interested to see what many of the coaches here think about that 2nd paragraph. I think it is a pretty fair analogy to the fournette and Mccaffrey situations. The only difference may be the presence of an injury. I don't know about McCaffrey, but Fournette has been nursing an ankle injury the entire year. So you had a D-I athlete on your football team and you couldn't make the playoffs? Sorry, dude...I'm with the kids who quit the team on this one. If I was their coach would I be angry that they quit? Sure. But what credibility do I have to stand on? I'm a high school football coach with a D-I athlete and I couldn't make the playoffs. No one is going to feel sorry for me. That kid needs to do what's best for him. I surely didn't. Coach..a few things 1) You do realize that opponents can have D1 athletes as well correct? Having one D1 athlete does not guarantee success. 2) The athlete funkfriss was describing was a D1 WRESTLER. The weight classes start at 125 and 9 out of 10 are under 200lbs. It is very plausible that you could have a dominant D1 Wrestler be a good HS football player but hardly a dominant force on Friday nights.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Dec 20, 2016 18:48:02 GMT -6
Not a perfect analogy but sonewhat similar, we had a kid on or football team this year that was just a backup and special teams type of football player, but is a defending state champion wrestler. I don't know if he'll be D1 or not, but he did well enough last weekend at a tournament to achieve all American status, so I'm guessing he'll have opportunities.
He kept having stingers during the season, like at least once a week for the last 8 weeks or so. We had coversations as a staff where we all just assumed that sooner or later we were going to show up on a Monday and the kid would tell us he was quitting to make sure he was healthy for the start of wrestling season, and nobody on staff would have blamed him.
Kid never quit the team, and I respect his toughness and commitment level, but I absolutely wouldn't have thought any lesser of him if he had.
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Post by 19delta on Dec 20, 2016 18:53:28 GMT -6
So you had a D-I athlete on your football team and you couldn't make the playoffs? Sorry, dude...I'm with the kids who quit the team on this one. If I was their coach would I be angry that they quit? Sure. But what credibility do I have to stand on? I'm a high school football coach with a D-I athlete and I couldn't make the playoffs. No one is going to feel sorry for me. That kid needs to do what's best for him. I surely didn't. Coach..a few things 1) You do realize that opponents can have D1 athletes as well correct? Having one D1 athlete does not guarantee success. 2) The athlete funkfriss was describing was a D1 WRESTLER. The weight classes start at 125 and 9 out of 10 are under 200lbs. It is very plausible that you could have a dominant D1 Wrestler be a good HS football player but hardly a dominant force on Friday nights. Point is, the football coaches had their shot and it didn't get done. For whatever reason. Doesn't really matter. Why do you think that those two wrestlers owe the football team another two meaningless weeks? After Week 7, what is best for those two kids is to start getting ready for wrestling. Don't you want what is best for the kids?
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Post by 19delta on Dec 20, 2016 18:54:54 GMT -6
Not a perfect analogy but sonewhat similar, we had a kid on or football team this year that was just a backup and special teams type of football player, but is a defending state champion wrestler. I don't know if he'll be D1 or not, but he did well enough last weekend at a tournament to achieve all American status, so I'm guessing he'll have opportunities. He kept having stingers during the season, like at least once a week for the last 8 weeks or so. We had coversations as a staff where we all just assumed that sooner or later we were going to show up on a Monday and the kid would tell us he was quitting to make sure he was healthy for the start of wrestling season, and nobody on staff would have blamed him. Kid never quit the team, and I respect his toughness and commitment level, but I absolutely wouldn't have thought any lesser of him if he had. I can guarantee you that your opinion would put you in the vast minority of HS coaches. Good for you guys!
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2016 18:58:33 GMT -6
Coach..a few things 1) You do realize that opponents can have D1 athletes as well correct? Having one D1 athlete does not guarantee success. 2) The athlete funkfriss was describing was a D1 WRESTLER. The weight classes start at 125 and 9 out of 10 are under 200lbs. It is very plausible that you could have a dominant D1 Wrestler be a good HS football player but hardly a dominant force on Friday nights. Point is, the football coaches had their shot and it didn't get done. For whatever reason. Doesn't really matter. Why do you think that those two wrestlers owe the football team another two meaningless weeks? After Week 7, what is best for those two kids is to start getting ready for wrestling. Don't you want what is best for the kids? Wow..coach, never thought I would see you of all people saying "a coach didn't get it done" and that games are meaningless if a team is not making the playoffs....
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Post by 19delta on Dec 20, 2016 19:12:14 GMT -6
Point is, the football coaches had their shot and it didn't get done. For whatever reason. Doesn't really matter. Why do you think that those two wrestlers owe the football team another two meaningless weeks? After Week 7, what is best for those two kids is to start getting ready for wrestling. Don't you want what is best for the kids? Wow..coach, never thought I would see you of all people saying "a coach didn't get it done" and that games are meaningless if a team is not making the playoffs.... "Meaningless" is a subjective term, of course. With that being said, if I was a HFC and was sitting at 2-5 Week 7 and I had 2 stud wrestlers on the team come up to me and say, "hey coach...I'm sorry but wrestling season starts in 3 weeks and I don't want to get hurt and I want to get ready for wrestling", who am I to argue? Seriously...what should I tell those guys? As HFC, my season is over. I get a week or so off before the weight room starts up but I am home every Friday night and I don't have anything seriously competitive for another 9 months. Those two kids, on the other hand, are going to be on the mat (without any teammates to help them, BTW) in less than a month. In that case, who is truly being "selfish"?
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2016 19:15:03 GMT -6
Wow..coach, never thought I would see you of all people saying "a coach didn't get it done" and that games are meaningless if a team is not making the playoffs.... "Meaningless" is a subjective term, of course. With that being said, if I was a HFC and was sitting at 2-5 Week 7 and I had 2 stud wrestlers on the team come up to me and say, "hey coach...I'm sorry but wrestling season starts in 3 weeks and I don't want to get hurt and I want to get ready for wrestling", who am I to argue? Seriously...what should I tell those guys? As HFC, my season is over. I get a week or so off before the weight room starts up but I am home every Friday night and I don't have anything seriously competitive for another 9 months. Those two kids, on the other hand, are going to be on the mat (without any teammates to help them, BTW) in less than a month. In that case, who is truly being "selfish"? Very slippery slope coach... many a 2-5 team knows they will be 2-5, 3-4 etc before you flip the calendar to September. Why play at all? In fact, since you mention doing whats best for the kids...might as well through out the nuclear option and say that based on the mounting data and research on subconcussive brain injury and football.... Do I need to finish the sentence?
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Post by 19delta on Dec 20, 2016 19:41:47 GMT -6
"Meaningless" is a subjective term, of course. With that being said, if I was a HFC and was sitting at 2-5 Week 7 and I had 2 stud wrestlers on the team come up to me and say, "hey coach...I'm sorry but wrestling season starts in 3 weeks and I don't want to get hurt and I want to get ready for wrestling", who am I to argue? Seriously...what should I tell those guys? As HFC, my season is over. I get a week or so off before the weight room starts up but I am home every Friday night and I don't have anything seriously competitive for another 9 months. Those two kids, on the other hand, are going to be on the mat (without any teammates to help them, BTW) in less than a month. In that case, who is truly being "selfish"? Very slippery slope coach... many a 2-5 team knows they will be 2-5, 3-4 etc before you flip the calendar to September. Why play at all? In fact, since you mention doing whats best for the kids...might as well through out the nuclear option and say that based on the mounting data and research on subconcussive brain injury and football.... Do I need to finish the sentence? Eh...I'm not sure what the data shows. The vast majority of kids who played high school football have grown up to be productive adults and even have time to argue on the Internet passionately with people they have never met! (or maybe that is yet another sign of CTE... ). But, I digress... I just think that it isn't a coach-centered world we live in anymore. If coaches want the best efforts of kids, they had better be willing to give those kids their best efforts. And when those best efforts aren't good enough (for whatever reason), kids who have other better opportunities shouldn't be faulted for pursuing them.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2016 19:53:33 GMT -6
Very slippery slope coach... many a 2-5 team knows they will be 2-5, 3-4 etc before you flip the calendar to September. Why play at all? In fact, since you mention doing whats best for the kids...might as well through out the nuclear option and say that based on the mounting data and research on subconcussive brain injury and football.... Do I need to finish the sentence? Eh...I'm not sure what the data shows. The vast majority of kids who played high school football have grown up to be productive adults and even have time to argue on the Internet passionately with people they have never met! (or maybe that is yet another sign of CTE... ). But, I digress... I just think that it isn't a coach-centered world we live in anymore. If coaches want the best efforts of kids, they had better be willing to give those kids their best efforts. And when those best efforts aren't good enough (for whatever reason), kids who have other better opportunities shouldn't be faulted for pursuing them. I wasn't aware that participating in a team sport was somehow a coach-centered activity...
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Post by 19delta on Dec 20, 2016 20:15:42 GMT -6
Eh...I'm not sure what the data shows. The vast majority of kids who played high school football have grown up to be productive adults and even have time to argue on the Internet passionately with people they have never met! (or maybe that is yet another sign of CTE... ). But, I digress... I just think that it isn't a coach-centered world we live in anymore. If coaches want the best efforts of kids, they had better be willing to give those kids their best efforts. And when those best efforts aren't good enough (for whatever reason), kids who have other better opportunities shouldn't be faulted for pursuing them. I wasn't aware that participating in a team sport was somehow a coach-centered activity... Who's running practice? Coaching in the weightroom? Designing the offense, defense, and special teams? Determining the depth chart? Calling the plays on Friday nights?
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2016 20:23:56 GMT -6
I wasn't aware that participating in a team sport was somehow a coach-centered activity... Who's running practice? Coaching in the weightroom? Designing the offense, defense, and special teams? Determining the depth chart? Calling the plays on Friday nights? Who is RUNNING in practice. Who is hitting and getting hit in practice, who is LIFTING the weights. Who is SPOTTING me while I lift those weights. Who is EXECUTING the offense, defense and special teams. Who is trying to move up the depth chart. Who is PLAYING on Friday nights? I understand what you are trying to convey, I just don't think that being a part of a team and finishing the season is somehow doing the coach a favor.
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Post by 19delta on Dec 20, 2016 20:33:55 GMT -6
Who's running practice? Coaching in the weightroom? Designing the offense, defense, and special teams? Determining the depth chart? Calling the plays on Friday nights? Who is RUNNING in practice. Who is hitting and getting hit in practice, who is LIFTING the weights. Who is SPOTTING me while I lift those weights. Who is EXECUTING the offense, defense and special teams. Who is trying to move up the depth chart. Who is PLAYING on Friday nights? I understand what you are trying to convey, I just don't think that being a part of a team and finishing the season is somehow doing the coach a favor. I guess that is where we disagree.
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Post by lilbuck1103 on Dec 20, 2016 21:05:58 GMT -6
Unfortunately this creates a very slippery slope for team sports. What one player may deem as important, another may think something else.
Again, I understand the player's decision, but let me pose this to coaches for thought...would anyone's opinion change if a player decided that after his team was eliminated from playoff contention that he was going to work after school instead of finishing the year out because he wanted to make some money? How about if that particular player was a HS junior and was planning to come back to play as a Senior? I don't believe we'll get there, but it creates a slippery slope that I hope we won't have to worry about.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2016 21:31:52 GMT -6
Who is RUNNING in practice. Who is hitting and getting hit in practice, who is LIFTING the weights. Who is SPOTTING me while I lift those weights. Who is EXECUTING the offense, defense and special teams. Who is trying to move up the depth chart. Who is PLAYING on Friday nights? I understand what you are trying to convey, I just don't think that being a part of a team and finishing the season is somehow doing the coach a favor. I guess that is where we disagree. Wow... that is really surprising. I mean, if we are in a place where playing a sport is considered doing the coach a favor, I just don't know.
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Post by 19delta on Dec 20, 2016 21:33:58 GMT -6
Unfortunately this creates a very slippery slope for team sports. What one player may deem as important, another may think something else. Again, I understand the player's decision, but let me pose this to coaches for thought...would anyone's opinion change if a player decided that after his team was eliminated from playoff contention that he was going to work after school instead of finishing the year out because he wanted to make some money? How about if that particular player was a HS junior and was planning to come back to play as a Senior? I don't believe we'll get there, but it creates a slippery slope that I hope we won't have to worry about. So you are saying that he isn't going to lift? He's just going to work and come out for football the following August? Unless the kid is REALLY good, he's probably going to get beat out. So what's the problem?
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Post by natenator on Dec 20, 2016 21:44:37 GMT -6
I guess that is where we disagree. Wow... that is really surprising. I mean, if we are in a place where playing a sport is considered doing the coach a favor, I just don't know. I don't know about anyone else but I coach my players to play for their brothers, not coaches.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 21:58:34 GMT -6
I don't agree with its "a 20 year old type of decision". This is a family telling them what to do decision. Knowing how competitive these guys are, if it was solely up to them, I think they would play. I also think without a doubt if they were in the playoffs, they would play. I think this was an agent telling them this. It wouldn't surprise me if both are about to sign with the same agent who's managing that DT from Oklahoma who "opted out" at midseason to start getting ready for NFL workouts.
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Post by 19delta on Dec 20, 2016 22:01:43 GMT -6
I guess that is where we disagree. Wow... that is really surprising. I mean, if we are in a place where playing a sport is considered doing the coach a favor, I just don't know. Shouldn't all relationships be mutually beneficial?
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2016 22:01:46 GMT -6
I don't agree with its "a 20 year old type of decision". This is a family telling them what to do decision. Knowing how competitive these guys are, if it was solely up to them, I think they would play. I also think without a doubt if they were in the playoffs, they would play. I think this was an agent telling them this. It wouldn't surprise me if both are about to sign with the same agent who's managing that DT from Oklahoma who "opted out" at midseason to start getting ready for NFL workouts. I believe Fournette already signed with Jay z
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Post by 19delta on Dec 20, 2016 22:04:09 GMT -6
Wow... that is really surprising. I mean, if we are in a place where playing a sport is considered doing the coach a favor, I just don't know. I don't know about anyone else but I coach my players to play for their brothers, not coaches. How do you "coach" that, exactly?
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Post by natenator on Dec 20, 2016 22:12:17 GMT -6
I don't know about anyone else but I coach my players to play for their brothers, not coaches. How do you "coach" that, exactly? I talk about it non-stop with my players. Every week I ask players if they can look their teammates in the eye knowing they gave them all that they had. I repeat every week that they are playing for the guy beside, in front and behind them not us coaches on the sidelines. These are teachable moments for me to try and instill a sense of team above self concepts. Players are the ones that have to play therefore they are who need to believe in each other.
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Post by tiger46 on Dec 21, 2016 4:16:32 GMT -6
I've seen some dumb phucking arguments. And, this thread has to rank as a top contender for a blue ribbon in the 'Dumbest Phucking Argument Ever' category on this board. ROFLMAO!
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Post by tabs52 on Dec 21, 2016 4:36:27 GMT -6
IN the end its the players personal choice. Just like the guys in the NFL who decide to retire in their prime, because they want to protect themselves and their future health. Running backs have a very small window to make an impact. At some point in life we all have to make decisions that is in the best interest of yourself or your family. IN the end Tom Herman is selfish, he bailed on his Houston team before the bowl game for a better opportunity and more money. That is selfish.
In the end, the problem is the NCAA, until they truly become an organization that they say they are and put the student athletes first then the NCAA is a shame.
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Post by fantom on Dec 21, 2016 7:52:05 GMT -6
I've seen some dumb phucking arguments. And, this thread has to rank as a top contender for a blue ribbon in the 'Dumbest Phucking Argument Ever' category on this board. ROFLMAO! Why?
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Post by 19delta on Dec 21, 2016 10:33:58 GMT -6
How do you "coach" that, exactly? I talk about it non-stop with my players. Every week I ask players if they can look their teammates in the eye knowing they gave them all that they had. I repeat every week that they are playing for the guy beside, in front and behind them not us coaches on the sidelines. These are teachable moments for me to try and instill a sense of team above self concepts. Players are the ones that have to play therefore they are who need to believe in each other. Have you coached at the same school for your entire career? If not, did you quit on your players by taking a new job?
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Post by spos21ram on Dec 21, 2016 10:43:34 GMT -6
How do you "coach" that, exactly? I talk about it non-stop with my players. Every week I ask players if they can look their teammates in the eye knowing they gave them all that they had. I repeat every week that they are playing for the guy beside, in front and behind them not us coaches on the sidelines. These are teachable moments for me to try and instill a sense of team above self concepts. Players are the ones that have to play therefore they are who need to believe in each other. I don't like telling players who they should be playing for. Some play for their parents, some for their school, some for their town, some for their friends, some for their teammates, some play for themselves. Some play for all of the above. As long as they are playing for something and giving 100%, I don't care who they are playing for.
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Post by natenator on Dec 21, 2016 11:01:12 GMT -6
I talk about it non-stop with my players. Every week I ask players if they can look their teammates in the eye knowing they gave them all that they had. I repeat every week that they are playing for the guy beside, in front and behind them not us coaches on the sidelines. These are teachable moments for me to try and instill a sense of team above self concepts. Players are the ones that have to play therefore they are who need to believe in each other. Have you coached at the same school for your entire career? If not, did you quit on your players by taking a new job? I am not a teacher. I coach club (travel) ball in Canada and in the past two years have been able to make my schedule work to coach high school. I have coached with the same club here the past 6 years. 3 years before that I was in another city coaching but moved back where I am now I be closer to family with health care needs. I've had plenty of opportunities to quit this club for greener pastures as the organization itself has been pretty dysfunctional but I am not quitting on kids for greener pastures. I coach because I'd be dead or in jail if it wasn't for coaches volunteering their time when I was growing up. I also don't make a dime from HS or club coaching. I'm not entirely sure what your point is with your question? Who said anything about quitting? I said I coach players to play for their brothers, not their coaches.
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