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Post by brophy on Dec 2, 2015 17:49:20 GMT -6
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Post by fantom on Dec 2, 2015 17:58:00 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2015 10:52:43 GMT -6
Great ideas in that article
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Post by veerman on Dec 3, 2015 11:31:06 GMT -6
watch the pats. They are not 25 different concepts. Not even close. In a sense maybe they are. They probably have the most flexible offense in the NFL - part of the difficulty in playing them is that they morph what they do every week based on the team they're playing. They are the ultimate take what they are given team. That said - perhaps different "concepts" isn't the right way to put it. Most of their passing routes are option routes, so both Brady and the receiver have to make the same read, sometimes multiple reads, on the play. That doesn't change game to game, but what the receiver and Brady are looking for does. Very complicated to run, and a big reason they tend to have trouble finding receivers who fit their system. I'm going to guess that most every team when it comes to passing concepts are option routes. Lets face it, there is not much difference in team to team what is being done. Most teams mainly have a zone blocking and a power blocking scheme. But with Free agency and players getting trade away or playing for different teams more than some people change underwear there can't be that much difference......coaches changing around for that matter as well....
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Post by 33coach on Dec 3, 2015 11:37:08 GMT -6
In a sense maybe they are. They probably have the most flexible offense in the NFL - part of the difficulty in playing them is that they morph what they do every week based on the team they're playing. They are the ultimate take what they are given team. That said - perhaps different "concepts" isn't the right way to put it. Most of their passing routes are option routes, so both Brady and the receiver have to make the same read, sometimes multiple reads, on the play. That doesn't change game to game, but what the receiver and Brady are looking for does. Very complicated to run, and a big reason they tend to have trouble finding receivers who fit their system. I'm going to guess that most every team when it comes to passing concepts are option routes. Lets face it, there is not much difference in team to team what is being done. Most teams mainly have a zone blocking and a power blocking scheme. But with Free agency and players getting trade away or playing for different teams more than some people change underwear there can't be that much difference......coaches changing around for that matter as well.... its also a marketing decision. when both teams are running the same offense it becomes aparent what a "good call" is vs a "bad call" - making the NFL Bros feel like they know football because they can say things like "what they ought to do here is.....". when viewership is engaged at that level, thats when you know you have something special. the INTERESTING thing, is that this does not hold true for defense....ive seen TONS of defensive variation over the past 10 years.
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Post by jrk5150 on Dec 3, 2015 11:42:25 GMT -6
In a sense maybe they are. They probably have the most flexible offense in the NFL - part of the difficulty in playing them is that they morph what they do every week based on the team they're playing. They are the ultimate take what they are given team. That said - perhaps different "concepts" isn't the right way to put it. Most of their passing routes are option routes, so both Brady and the receiver have to make the same read, sometimes multiple reads, on the play. That doesn't change game to game, but what the receiver and Brady are looking for does. Very complicated to run, and a big reason they tend to have trouble finding receivers who fit their system. I'm going to guess that most every team when it comes to passing concepts are option routes. Lets face it, there is not much difference in team to team what is being done. Most teams mainly have a zone blocking and a power blocking scheme. But with Free agency and players getting trade away or playing for different teams more than some people change underwear there can't be that much difference......coaches changing around for that matter as well.... I'm not positive, but I don't believe that's true to the extent that the Patriots do it. I doubt they are unique, but what they do - or perhaps how they do it - isn't common, either. They have really struggled to find receivers who can play in their system, and have had plenty come through who were fine in other systems but failed abysmally here. And a similar list of guys who thrive in their system but don't do as well in others. It got a lot of play and discussion around here when they had Chad Johnson and he couldn't get on the field.
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Post by blb on Dec 4, 2015 8:59:18 GMT -6
I don't know if they're "worth watching," but I follow the Packers closely because I was born in Green Bay, grew up on Lombardi Packers, and own a share of the team.
I never got to watch much NFL until after our season was over, but when I did it wasn't because I was looking for things I could use coaching HS Football.
I watch NFL because it is Football, the greatest players in the world, and I appreciate the art and science of it, even though it is vastly different than the game I coached.
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Post by veerman on Dec 4, 2015 12:40:57 GMT -6
I'm going to guess that most every team when it comes to passing concepts are option routes. Lets face it, there is not much difference in team to team what is being done. Most teams mainly have a zone blocking and a power blocking scheme. But with Free agency and players getting trade away or playing for different teams more than some people change underwear there can't be that much difference......coaches changing around for that matter as well.... I'm not positive, but I don't believe that's true to the extent that the Patriots do it. I doubt they are unique, but what they do - or perhaps how they do it - isn't common, either. They have really struggled to find receivers who can play in their system, and have had plenty come through who were fine in other systems but failed abysmally here. And a similar list of guys who thrive in their system but don't do as well in others. It got a lot of play and discussion around here when they had Chad Johnson and he couldn't get on the field. Don't think CJ had to do with learning the scheme more than he was ready to retire and move on, and the way the Pats do things is not the way the lazy player likes to be.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2015 14:32:34 GMT -6
I'm not positive, but I don't believe that's true to the extent that the Patriots do it. I doubt they are unique, but what they do - or perhaps how they do it - isn't common, either. They have really struggled to find receivers who can play in their system, and have had plenty come through who were fine in other systems but failed abysmally here. And a similar list of guys who thrive in their system but don't do as well in others. It got a lot of play and discussion around here when they had Chad Johnson and he couldn't get on the field. Don't think CJ had to do with learning the scheme more than he was ready to retire and move on, and the way the Pats do things is not the way the lazy player likes to be. This is where I am with the pats. The pats are the school where it is not option to show up in a tie, or to show up for a weight room session. There is only one way to do it, and if you cannot or will get on board you will not be a pat long. I think the locker room is full of BB guys. And if you become a problem...
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Post by coachklee on Dec 4, 2015 15:06:14 GMT -6
Don't think CJ had to do with learning the scheme more than he was ready to retire and move on, and the way the Pats do things is not the way the lazy player likes to be. This is where I am with the pats. The pats are the school where it is not option to show up in a tie, or to show up for a weight room session. There is only one way to do it, and if you cannot or will get on board you will not be a pat long. I think the locker room is full of BB guys. And if you become a problem... What is a "BB guy"?
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Post by 33coach on Dec 4, 2015 15:09:31 GMT -6
This is where I am with the pats. The pats are the school where it is not option to show up in a tie, or to show up for a weight room session. There is only one way to do it, and if you cannot or will get on board you will not be a pat long. I think the locker room is full of BB guys. And if you become a problem... What is a "BB guy"? i think is a guy whos got BB's in his shorts because hes taken too many steroids
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Post by coachnicholson on Dec 4, 2015 15:36:09 GMT -6
There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason in the play calling. I'm convinced that they run plays just because they can.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2015 15:44:06 GMT -6
This is where I am with the pats. The pats are the school where it is not option to show up in a tie, or to show up for a weight room session. There is only one way to do it, and if you cannot or will get on board you will not be a pat long. I think the locker room is full of BB guys. And if you become a problem... What is a "BB guy"? bill billicheck guy. guys who have bought in to the "patriot way.
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Post by jrk5150 on Dec 7, 2015 14:16:04 GMT -6
I'm not positive, but I don't believe that's true to the extent that the Patriots do it. I doubt they are unique, but what they do - or perhaps how they do it - isn't common, either. They have really struggled to find receivers who can play in their system, and have had plenty come through who were fine in other systems but failed abysmally here. And a similar list of guys who thrive in their system but don't do as well in others. It got a lot of play and discussion around here when they had Chad Johnson and he couldn't get on the field. Don't think CJ had to do with learning the scheme more than he was ready to retire and move on, and the way the Pats do things is not the way the lazy player likes to be. Yeah, he had plenty of issues, but Belichick loved that guy...until he became a Patriot. What was consistently being written by the beat guys is that he was totally confused. He was used to running called patterns, but that isn't how the Pats offense works. He just could not figure it out. Or at least that's what the word was at the time.
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Post by coachphillip on Dec 8, 2015 8:54:37 GMT -6
Right. I remember a lot of the talk was that he couldn't figure out the playbook because Bengals were WCO with modular play calling structure and Pats ran concepts.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2015 19:27:52 GMT -6
Right. I remember a lot of the talk was that he couldn't figure out the playbook because Bengals were WCO with modular play calling structure and Pats ran concepts. I would bet my right arm that it had nothing to do with his football intellect. I am more than confident in saying that not everybody can handle that structure. You have to do things a certain way, off the field as much as on. I will bet that is where the rub came.
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Post by center on Dec 9, 2015 8:57:07 GMT -6
I had a college teammate that started his coaching career as an intern in quality control for an NFL team in the late 80's, early 90's. When he first met with the team he had a set of meetings for the new guys to learn the base systems on offense and defense so he could better do his job.
The team he was with was a one back offense and 4/3 under defense. After those meetings he commented to one of the coaches that it was easier than he thought it would be.
The coach said "great, I am glad that you think so, but we can't run that stuff more than one snap per game." "Dan Marino would set a single game passing record if we ran that coverage even half the game and Reggie White would cripple our running back if we ran power from base formation without motion and help for our TE."
The coach explained that every thing started with a base but had to be adjusted to personnel after that every week. And by this point in the season you have a ton of guys hurt and need even more adjustment to the system to have any success at all.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2015 11:04:05 GMT -6
It is all in how you view adjustments.
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Post by 33coach on Dec 9, 2015 11:09:26 GMT -6
I had a college teammate that started his coaching career as an intern in quality control for an NFL team in the late 80's, early 90's. When he first met with the team he had a set of meetings for the new guys to learn the base systems on offense and defense so he could better do his job. The team he was with was a one back offense and 4/3 under defense. After those meetings he commented to one of the coaches that it was easier than he thought it would be. The coach said "great, I am glad that you think so, but we can't run that stuff more than one snap per game." "Dan Marino would set a single game passing record if we ran that coverage even half the game and Reggie White would cripple our running back if we ran power from base formation without motion and help for our TE." The coach explained that every thing started with a base but had to be adjusted to personnel after that every week. And by this point in the season you have a ton of guys hurt and need even more adjustment to the system to have any success at all. personnel is the key factor in the NFL - thats what ive been told as well. your call sheet gets built based on who you have, and who they have.
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Post by littleguy123 on Jun 18, 2016 19:17:57 GMT -6
I had a college teammate that started his coaching career as an intern in quality control for an NFL team in the late 80's, early 90's. When he first met with the team he had a set of meetings for the new guys to learn the base systems on offense and defense so he could better do his job. The team he was with was a one back offense and 4/3 under defense. After those meetings he commented to one of the coaches that it was easier than he thought it would be. The coach said "great, I am glad that you think so, but we can't run that stuff more than one snap per game." "Dan Marino would set a single game passing record if we ran that coverage even half the game and Reggie White would cripple our running back if we ran power from base formation without motion and help for our TE." The coach explained that every thing started with a base but had to be adjusted to personnel after that every week. And by this point in the season you have a ton of guys hurt and need even more adjustment to the system to have any success at all. Do you guys believe this is true though? Maybe its my lack of knowledge but I think of teams like the Seahawks. Defensively, how much do they change on a snap by snap basis? I thought I heard a quote from Sherman saying to the affect that "everyone knows we run cover 3 or cover 1". Maybe I didn't here it right but they seem to be pretty consistent on the looks they give and their coverage. I sure there are tweaks but, I wonder do really have to have some totally new look or concept every snap or be shredded by Drew Brees on Sundays. Sorry to bring up an old thread I was just searching for things and found this thread.
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Post by barnes77 on Jun 18, 2016 19:52:10 GMT -6
The NFL team I watch is the cleveland Browns, I watch them because I love the underdogs.I just want them to be good and one day I hope to be apart of their oganization.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jun 18, 2016 20:56:51 GMT -6
Not sure if joking...
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benr
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Post by benr on Jun 18, 2016 20:59:56 GMT -6
One of my old coaching buddies got a gig interning for an NFL team during their training camp. Right before camp started we had dinner and he showed me his iPad with some of their installs in it and for the coaches their schemes were designed to attack specific defenders in all sorts of different coverage schemes. It was like 30 or 40 concepts to take advantage of every possible pass defender. The team he was with didn't have a true playbook it was all week to week specific stuff. This team used the EP play calling system that for a new player from a different system could definitely take some time to learn.
He was also telling me about 4:30 AM staff meetings on Mondays after getting home from a road trip in the pre season. Then working again till midnight and finding some random place to sleep for a few hours before getting started again. He was working with linebackers and he was telling me they could spend 2 or 3 minutes per player per snap looking at technique and all types of things like that. I've never met a guy who could grind film like this guy and even he admitted to me it got hard to do and he was glad it was only an internship.
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Post by littleguy123 on Jun 18, 2016 22:11:10 GMT -6
I just always wondered if there was a better way. It seems like all nfl guys are staying up working from 4:30 to midnight everyday going over every scenerio and having 40 concepts for each player and through all that lots of teams are still really bad on offense. I mean I understand that the other guys are putting in the time too its just that your spend 20 hours a day breaking down going over film and practice just to be the Browns who haven't had a decent offense in 10-15 years.
Earlier others said that playcallimg in the nfl didn't really fit together it was just situational based. I wonder if certain teams who's offense's have been struggling could be better served using a more system based cohesive playcalling strategy.
I really don't know how to articulate it well but I just think of all the qb's that physically have all the tools but can't get mental part of the game down. The pro guy says we have to be this complex because if not x players on the other side will destroy us if they see this formation and concept more then once a game. Just thinking maybe if they tried to simplify it more offenses would be able to execute better especially qb's.
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Post by blb on Jun 19, 2016 6:41:23 GMT -6
It is interesting that despite the explosion of the passing game in CFB the last twenty or so years that so many QBs struggle to make it in NFL.
Even some who were "big-time" recruits that played in powerhouse programs.
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Post by brophy on Jun 19, 2016 7:58:38 GMT -6
It is interesting that despite the explosion of the passing game in CFB the last twenty or so years that so many QBs struggle to make it in NFL. Even some who were "big-time" recruits that played in powerhouse programs.
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Post by **** on Jun 19, 2016 8:15:15 GMT -6
It is interesting that despite the explosion of the passing game in CFB the last twenty or so years that so many QBs struggle to make it in NFL. Even some who were "big-time" recruits that played in powerhouse programs. This is spot on. I seriously don't believe that NFL coaches are as good as most people think. Look at what Rex Ryan did to Mark Sanchez. Not saying Sanchez was great but he played well the first couple years. Can't remember where I was at when I heard this but basically they had Sanchez read everything a$$ backwards and he slowly got worse over the years. Alex Smith is another great example of a new OC every year and different HC's. Guy is finally with somebody that knows what's going on and is playing well. It's even worse when teams take guys that don't fit their scheme. Lets have him do this when he's been successful doing that his whole life. You have to adapt to what your players are good at.
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Post by barnes77 on Jun 19, 2016 8:45:44 GMT -6
No not joking my dream is to work my way up and possibly work for the cleveland browns. They are my favorite team them or Ohio state one day
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 19, 2016 8:58:42 GMT -6
I think this has been changing a bit in the NFL lately. I really couldn't understand it either. Not everyone is Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, don't try to make them play like Manning or Brady. I really do think the NFL is fairly "inbred" for lack of a better term, and the decision makers really don't know any different.
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Post by 33coach on Jun 19, 2016 9:02:46 GMT -6
Does anyone know anything about Rob Boras offense with the Rams?
Now that they are in LA again...i guess I have to start watching again.
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