After seeing the game it really shows the value of clock management. I would have a speed player catch the ball and run the clock down.
There were 10 seconds left on the clock, and you are only up by 2 on your end of the field. I don't see someone being able to successfully run out 10 seconds without the SIGNIFICANT chance that the opponent gets a game winning fieldgoal opportunity from it.
As for the original post..the standard (we had a lot of opportunities to put the game away as a team and didn't. This didn't come down to one play type of statement is what I would do. Sadly, our society through the aid of anonymous media has become one where those who don't try anything and accomplish nothing feel 100% comfortable with criticizing those who try and don't succeed.
Last Edit: Oct 18, 2015 7:09:55 GMT -6 by coachd5085
“As to methods there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.”-- ---Ralph Waldo Emerson apparently would have been a great football coach!
My freshman year of high school, our kicker missed a game winning FG that was well within his range as time expired. There was no social media at the time(no internet to speak of)but the natives were starting to get restless in the stands. Our HC calmly walked out to the middle of the field, picked up the kicker, and walked off the field with his arm around the kicker's shoulder. That by itself did a lot to diffuse the situation.
"We're gonna go through them like crap through a goose." - General George S Patton
I think the OP is talking about what would you do for the player AFTER the case...now that he is the target of ire from Big Blue "fans"
I am not sure I agree with that one. All the kid needed to do was catch snap and pooch it. He didn't catch the snap. That was his only mistake on the play. I suppose one could make an argument had he been able to just FALL on the ball, then MSU would have less of a chance to win because they would have had 8 seconds left around the +40. So they would have needed to make another play or two. But in discussing that you also introduce the idea that a bad/dropped snap may occur into the heads of the players.
The chances of what happened (low snap, muffed catch, get hit while standing up and spun around so that ball pops out of hands and into MSU player who is almost in full stride for a scoop and score).... that would be a hard one to go over in a time out.
It is actions like this that have basically turned me into the "anti" fan unless I have an actual connection to someone/some group competing in a contest. The looks I get when I ask people why they are a Saints fan, or an LSU fan or whatever are great..especially when I point out to them that they actually have very little to no VESTED interest in the competition and outcome, and when I ask them why the accomplishments of those you don't know matter to you.
Last Edit: Oct 18, 2015 8:48:25 GMT -6 by coachd5085
“As to methods there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.”-- ---Ralph Waldo Emerson apparently would have been a great football coach!
Very well said. Anybody who chooses to criticize an athlete for on-field mistakes (especially young amateur athletes) should read that.
Like 3rdandlong said, you'll almost never see a person who competed at a high level criticize or insult athletes in these situations...if anything, former athletes show great empathy.
Last Edit: Oct 18, 2015 10:00:10 GMT -6 by Coach.A
After seeing the game it really shows the value of clock management. I would have a speed player catch the ball and run the clock down.
A HC is second guessed about everything. Had Harbuagh tried to run out the clock and the player fumbled or was unsuccessful in running the clock out and MSU scored to win people would have said he should have punted and so on etc. In that situation there was a worse case scenario for every decision. If he gets the punt off(in bounds) than there is no issue since they didn't have a returner deep.
How many punters are in that situation to begin with honestly? Something he hadn't exactly practiced before I bet. Feel for him just like the Texas Punter.
"Football doesn't build character. It eliminates the weak ones."
How many punters are in that situation to begin with honestly? Something he hadn't exactly practiced before I bet. Feel for him just like the Texas Punter.
I feel for the kid too, but all he had to do was catch the ball. I don't see what exactly he hadn't practiced?
“As to methods there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.”-- ---Ralph Waldo Emerson apparently would have been a great football coach!
Post by John Knight on Oct 18, 2015 12:01:10 GMT -6
I saw a guy that was a championship coach go for it on 4th and 2 in the state finals to make sure his punter was not put in that situation. About 30 seconds left and they got the first down but a terrible spot by the official gave the ball to the opponent who scored a TD on 2 plays. He said he was afraid what might happen to a punt so he took the chance. Took all the heat for the decision. I really think michigan should have gone for it on 4th and doubt MSU could have made the 60 yard FG
The Mushroom Society was established several years ago by a group of professional offensive line coaches. The mushroom logo signifies the similarity between the "O-Line" coach and the fungus. Both are kept in the dark and fed garbage yet continue to flourish!
. I really think michigan should have gone for it on 4th and doubt MSU could have made the 60 yard FG
Maybe not a 60..but they might have. Or they might have cut it to 55 with a quick out. Or they complete a crazy deep pass. As unlikely as those are...it is equally unlikely that they can't just get a punt OFF.
“As to methods there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.”-- ---Ralph Waldo Emerson apparently would have been a great football coach!
Post by John Knight on Oct 18, 2015 12:19:55 GMT -6
Disagree, too many bad things can happen on punt, the ball was on +48 and 10 seconds, run a controlled pass play or a sweep and burn time or just line up heavy and get the first down, game over show some nads!
Last Edit: Oct 18, 2015 12:21:17 GMT -6 by John Knight
The Mushroom Society was established several years ago by a group of professional offensive line coaches. The mushroom logo signifies the similarity between the "O-Line" coach and the fungus. Both are kept in the dark and fed garbage yet continue to flourish!
How many punters are in that situation to begin with honestly? Something he hadn't exactly practiced before I bet. Feel for him just like the Texas Punter.
I feel for the kid too, but all he had to do was catch the ball. I don't see what exactly he hadn't practiced?
The "if I bobble it" scenario. We can practice the what we are suppose to do all the time but what happens when the unexpected happens? Just like the QB is suppose to throw it to the receiver and not the DB or the holder is suppose to just catch and place but what if? We try to go over every possible scenario we can think of in practice but somethings are overlooked. That's all I'm saying.
"Football doesn't build character. It eliminates the weak ones."
Disagree, too many bad things can happen on punt, the ball was on +48 and 10 seconds, run a controlled pass play or a sweep and burn time or just line up heavy and get the first don, game over show some nads!
And nothing bad can happen on any of those plays?
"Football doesn't build character. It eliminates the weak ones."
I feel for the kid too, but all he had to do was catch the ball. I don't see what exactly he hadn't practiced?
The "if I bobble it" scenario. We can practice the what we are suppose to do all the time but what happens when the unexpected happens? Just like the QB is suppose to throw it to the receiver and not the DB or the holder is suppose to just catch and place but what if? We try to go over every possible scenario we can think of in practice but somethings are overlooked. That's all I'm saying.
I gotcha. Question though...if he "bobbles it"...what would you have told him to do? Just fall on it? I can see that, BUT..that only works in THIS case. Do you also practice the "what if I bobble it and we are up by 2 with 10 seconds left and I am standing on my 20 instead of on my 38?
“As to methods there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.”-- ---Ralph Waldo Emerson apparently would have been a great football coach!
Post by John Knight on Oct 18, 2015 12:29:34 GMT -6
The punter handles the ball very few times and even fewer with big time game winning pressure. I would rather my players determine the outcome. I was saying this before the punt, too. Run the ball, make them beat you with a long FG not a blocked punt or run back.
The Mushroom Society was established several years ago by a group of professional offensive line coaches. The mushroom logo signifies the similarity between the "O-Line" coach and the fungus. Both are kept in the dark and fed garbage yet continue to flourish!
The "if I bobble it" scenario. We can practice the what we are suppose to do all the time but what happens when the unexpected happens? Just like the QB is suppose to throw it to the receiver and not the DB or the holder is suppose to just catch and place but what if? We try to go over every possible scenario we can think of in practice but somethings are overlooked. That's all I'm saying.
I gotcha. Question though...if he "bobbles it"...what would you have told him to do? Just fall on it? I can see that, BUT..that only works in THIS case. Do you also practice the "what if I bobble it and we are up by 2 with 10 seconds left and I am standing on my 20 instead of on my 38?
No I agree with you. In this situation yes fall on it. What else could he have done after the bobble? you don't want him running or throwing it and same can happen. At least it may make it harder for MSU to score but no telling. It was just a freak situation, what if the defender doesn't catch the ball cleanly?
We ask our players to execute no matter what the call and HC takes the heat when it doesn't work out. Like I said earlier if he gets the punt off successfully no issue. Best thing is not to be in that situation right? HAHA
"Football doesn't build character. It eliminates the weak ones."
The punter handles the ball very few times and even fewer with big time game winning pressure. I would rather my players determine the outcome. I was saying this before the punt, too. Run the ball, make them beat you with a long FG not a blocked punt or run back.
I was saying the same thing actually but he would be questioned either way if they lose.
"Football doesn't build character. It eliminates the weak ones."
Should Michigan have been in max protection though? There was a receiver split out wide (top of the screen) who was uncovered. Should that receiver have walked down to help block?
The punter handles the ball very few times and even fewer with big time game winning pressure. I would rather my players determine the outcome. I was saying this before the punt, too. Run the ball, make them beat you with a long FG not a blocked punt or run back.
"Your Players" did. They couldn't get a first down to run out the clock remember? The odds of being stopped on 4th and 2 are significantly greater than the odds of a scoop and score due to a muffed punt attempt. So while you may say a long FG (or a Hail Mary) is unlikely, I would argue it is much MORE likely that you are giving them a CHANCE to beat you by going for it than you are by punting it away.
“As to methods there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.”-- ---Ralph Waldo Emerson apparently would have been a great football coach!
Should Michigan have been in max protection though? There was a receiver split out wide (top of the screen) who was uncovered. Should that receiver have walked down to help block?
If they weren't going to throw to the uncovered guy, then ABSOLUTELY he should have been in protecting.
“As to methods there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.”-- ---Ralph Waldo Emerson apparently would have been a great football coach!
Last Edit: Oct 18, 2015 12:52:12 GMT -6 by John Knight
The Mushroom Society was established several years ago by a group of professional offensive line coaches. The mushroom logo signifies the similarity between the "O-Line" coach and the fungus. Both are kept in the dark and fed garbage yet continue to flourish!
MSU FG kicker was not very good. That has a lot to do with my decision. Still think punt is too high risk in that situation.
Then why are you so certain they try a FG as opposed to a shot or two at the endzone? Maybe, MAYBE I would side with you if we were talking HS ball. This was B1G football for the Paul Bunyan trophy. There was no need for a GOOD punt, just catch the snap and make sure you make contact with your foot. Game over. That is not a high risk play.
“As to methods there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.”-- ---Ralph Waldo Emerson apparently would have been a great football coach!
Post by John Knight on Oct 18, 2015 13:04:32 GMT -6
What happened was 1 in a million but so is a Hail Mary or any other play. You run a regular play and get the first down game over. If not they still have to beat you.
The Mushroom Society was established several years ago by a group of professional offensive line coaches. The mushroom logo signifies the similarity between the "O-Line" coach and the fungus. Both are kept in the dark and fed garbage yet continue to flourish!
What happened was 1 in a million but so is a Hail Mary or any other play. You run a regular play and get the first down game over. If not they still have to beat you.
Yes, but I would argue that by running a regular play, you have a MUCH MUCH higher probability of given them a CHANCE to "have to beat you" than you do but just executing the pooch punt. Especially in big boy college football
“As to methods there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.”-- ---Ralph Waldo Emerson apparently would have been a great football coach!
Agree that the punt was the right call. It was just fluke circumstances that resulted in the TD, which can happen on any play. (Didn't Herman Edwards scoop and score in a situation like John Knight is describing?) I do believe Michigan should have been in max pro, though.
As for the aftermath, hey, a coach has to keep a level head. Shake it off, support the kid, and get ready for the next game.
What happened was 1 in a million but so is a Hail Mary or any other play. You run a regular play and get the first down game over. If not they still have to beat you.
While I think you might be right, if you run a regular play and fumble it and Mich St scoops and scores, we now are arguing that they should have just punted.
Last Edit: Oct 18, 2015 13:17:43 GMT -6 by silkyice
Post by John Knight on Oct 18, 2015 13:23:08 GMT -6
If that happens fans want to hang the coach who is paid the big bucks to take the heat. Not some punter who normally is on the field very few plays per game.
The Mushroom Society was established several years ago by a group of professional offensive line coaches. The mushroom logo signifies the similarity between the "O-Line" coach and the fungus. Both are kept in the dark and fed garbage yet continue to flourish!