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Post by fantom on Oct 19, 2015 10:02:44 GMT -6
You know what i think they should have done? Anything other than what happened.
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Post by joelee on Oct 19, 2015 10:06:44 GMT -6
I remember 2 things. As I watched the thing live. There was a camera shot of Harbaugh on the sideline and a kids kind of wanting to congratulate him and I said to myself, they still have to punt it. So my sub-conscious was thinking there's still some danger. Then when they trotted out the punt team it didn't even cross my mind to do anything else. I didn't second guess in the moment so i'm not going to now. Looks like he could have went for it and i'm mulling over that possibility for the future but in that moment I made the same decision he did. Now the whole thing about not going max protection and not falling on the ball I don't know if that was the special teams coach or Harbaugh but it certainly wasn't the kids.
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Post by John Knight on Oct 19, 2015 10:08:28 GMT -6
even on their own 47 it would be 64 yard FG. Come on man!!
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Oct 19, 2015 10:12:26 GMT -6
I hear ya. As a UM fan my heart was ripped out of my chest.
I think you're right though...should have just run the ball and mushed it, try to kill time off the clock with a scrum.
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Post by blb on Oct 19, 2015 10:13:14 GMT -6
So they go for it, fumble, MSU scoops and scores (a la "Miracle of Meadowlands" someone already referenced)...
Just as possible, same discussion today, just different player.
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Post by John Knight on Oct 19, 2015 10:20:28 GMT -6
No I would still defend the decision to not punt and be much more upset about execution. In a punt situation there are just too many variables for that kind of pressure IMHO!!! Someone said the offense did not get the first down to seal the deal, I say it is 4 down territory anytime you are past the 50 in a less than 10 second game.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Oct 19, 2015 11:40:13 GMT -6
More reason I hate punting! We've been lucky this year- only punted 4 times in 6 games...4 down territory extends from the -25 going out for me
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Post by wolfden12 on Oct 19, 2015 15:19:52 GMT -6
Go over worse case scenarios in the timeout I think the OP is talking about what would you do for the player AFTER the case...now that he is the target of ire from Big Blue "fans" I am not sure I agree with that one. All the kid needed to do was catch snap and pooch it. He didn't catch the snap. That was his only mistake on the play. I suppose one could make an argument had he been able to just FALL on the ball, then MSU would have less of a chance to win because they would have had 8 seconds left around the +40. So they would have needed to make another play or two. But in discussing that you also introduce the idea that a bad/dropped snap may occur into the heads of the players. The chances of what happened (low snap, muffed catch, get hit while standing up and spun around so that ball pops out of hands and into MSU player who is almost in full stride for a scoop and score).... that would be a hard one to go over in a time out. It is actions like this that have basically turned me into the "anti" fan unless I have an actual connection to someone/some group competing in a contest. The looks I get when I ask people why they are a Saints fan, or an LSU fan or whatever are great..especially when I point out to them that they actually have very little to no VESTED interest in the competition and outcome, and when I ask them why the accomplishments of those you don't know matter to you. I think you have to do your best to support the kid and know that life goes on. Pull him aside and discuss the "Great" things he has done and often times things happen in life that tests our response and character. It is unfortunate that people who have no affiliation to the game outside of getting drunk or putting threats toward amateur student-athletes are the reason this gets blown out of proportion along with the great present day life of social media. I would discuss some things to move past such as changing cell number, eliminate all social media accounts and work on getting back to work because there is a lot of football left and we are going to need you. Lean on your captains and senior leadership to reinforce your support and eliminate any questions related during the present or future and focus on getting one day better.
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Post by wolfden12 on Oct 19, 2015 15:22:39 GMT -6
Let's be honest, The outcome is affecting judgement. You snap the ball and punt it out of bounds 10/10 times. This one FREAK play that happened would not traditionally change anyones thought. Punt, Defense (1-2 plays) and win.
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Post by John Knight on Oct 19, 2015 18:07:16 GMT -6
Wrong!
The normal is clouding the rare. When there is that much pressure on the punter and snapper things are different. Freak plays happen in those situations, often.
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Post by olinedude on Oct 20, 2015 9:08:46 GMT -6
After the fact, I come into the locker room and I tell all of my players that they are to stay off all social media for 2 weeks. Stay off it completely, don't check it, don't post anything, black the team out from social media. Secondly, I tell them not to watch the news. I would emphasize to them that this is a team game, and if we get the first on 3rd down we take a knee and the game is over. A loss should never be placed on one guy, we win and lose as a team. I'd tell my guys we are going to circle the wagons, block out the noise, and move on.
I take that punter, my captains, and coaches and have them to my house with my family and have a big home cooked dinner the next night and try to talk about anything but football. I have a team meeting the next day that they come in and again emphasize the entire game is won or lost by us all, and I point out individual plays that could have changed the outcome and never put the punt team out there on the last play. I tell my guys to encourage the punter and tell them to rally around him and build him up instead of buying into what people are saying.
After that I meet with my coaches and we come up with all the things we could have done, and ways to practice the things we wish we would have done. Then find a way to practice those and move on. Tweak your special teams walk through, add what you wish you would have done in that scenario, and move on.
Go win the next week and get back to normal.
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Post by Coach Huey on Oct 20, 2015 16:47:05 GMT -6
1. I've not won near the games nor the games of such magnitude as harbaugh. 2. doubt many of us here, have. 3. since msu didn't put a return man back, should michigan have called timeout and gone for it? or should they still kicked it since there was no one back 4. if the snap was caught and it was punted 40 yards, rolled for 15 more, and time expired .... would it expire? ... would people still be disagreeing with the decision? 5. if they go for it instead, and the qb botches the snap because he's apparently as freaked out nervous as the kicker was - i mean, i don't know the players involved but apparently THAT kid freaks out in pressure situations, or is it ALL punters get bat-Shiii nervous in these situations? i digress, but apparently the michigan QB has ice water, despite not completing all his passes in crucial situations, but anyway where was i? -- then if the qb drops the snap, msu scoops/scores is it bad call ? good call?
i think it is 6. at the root of all of us is the innate genius that makes us all super smart --- or, we basically have the human instinct to second guess after the fact --- so whatever happened that was negative was the wrong choice because, well, duh, it didn't work out... which means that if our decision was chosen, then it would have worked.
so, 7.... harbaugh should have either run a play from the super spread to get his athletes in space OR ran super wedge from the dw to get a gazillion blockers at the point of attack. although, had he done either of those, he would have been accused of running up the score because, well... facemelter, y'all.
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Post by dubber on Oct 20, 2015 19:25:55 GMT -6
Ironically, we had almost this exact situation in our game Friday.
Just past mid-field, up 2 points.
I was on the box, and I said punt it out of the end zone. Our HC (also the ST coordinator) said: "What if they block it? What if it is a bad snap?"
He made the call to run a play and take as much time off as we can.....on 4th and 11 we ran an overload jet sweep to take time off.
We gave them the ball with enough time for three plays.....first play was a 40 yard seam that our FS misjudge (should have picked it), the second play was a fade to the end zone (that our other safety should have picked too), and the final one was a fade out of the back of the end zone.
Needless to say, we were crapping our pants, BUT it had nothing to do with that call. It had to do with crappy DB play (which we are addressing all this week).
Our HC really felt vindicated after the MSU game though.
That doesn't mean it is the only play, but it worked for us (barely).
Really, doesn't it come down to what you do well?
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Post by John Knight on Oct 21, 2015 5:17:07 GMT -6
your game was 10 seconds?
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 21, 2015 5:44:14 GMT -6
Trust your players.
Read it any way you like.
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Post by dubber on Oct 22, 2015 12:23:57 GMT -6
your game was 10 seconds? No, about 23.....
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Post by fantom on Oct 24, 2015 14:42:43 GMT -6
We had a situation the orhet day that reminds me of this thread. Thursday night we lost 13-14 and the headline said that the difference wa the blocked PAT. Yesterday in the weight room the kid who was responsible for the kick being blocked asked if it was his fault. I had to tell him that it was but that he dis not lose the game (It happened in the first quarter).
1. The offense scored 13 points against a middling defensive team. 2. The defense only gave up 130 total yards but many of those came on the game winning (Losing?) drive including a long completion on 3rd and 20. 3. We fumbled a punt, which led to their first TD. In addition, we had personnel issues on another ST play and had to call a time out. The fact that we only had 2 TO's left helped the opponents run out the clock at the end.
Winning and losing are both team efforts.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Oct 27, 2015 9:34:17 GMT -6
We had a situation the orhet day that reminds me of this thread. Thursday night we lost 13-14 and the headline said that the difference wa the blocked PAT. Yesterday in the weight room the kid who was responsible for the kick being blocked asked if it was his fault. I had to tell him that it was but that he dis not lose the game (It happened in the first quarter). 1. The offense scored 13 points against a middling defensive team. 2. The defense only gave up 130 total yards but many of those came on the game winning (Losing?) drive including a long completion on 3rd and 20. 3. We fumbled a punt, which led to their first TD. In addition, we had personnel issues on another ST play and had to call a time out. The fact that we only had 2 TO's left helped the opponents run out the clock at the end. Winning and losing are both team efforts. No doubt. I hate when people blame a kid or a single instance that "lost" the game. My OC in college had a great outlook on this stuff; he claimed that he could always go back to the film and isolate 7 plays/situations that made or break the game. It's never 1 play. Kickers are often the 'goat because what they do on extra points seems automatic; what the punter catching the snap and kicking seems easy.
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 27, 2015 18:36:23 GMT -6
Had a conversation with the kicker Monday, basically we talked aboutthe sampling kickers get. Position players get 50-75 plays to perform, kickers get 6-8. If you make 1 total flub the kicker'so mistake is magnified.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 27, 2015 18:49:00 GMT -6
Had a conversation with the kicker Monday, basically we talked aboutthe sampling kickers get. Position players get 50-75 plays to perform, kickers get 6-8. If you make 1 total flub the kicker'so mistake is magnified. No doubt. All special team mistakes are magnified.
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