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Post by coachwoodall on Jan 7, 2014 9:19:55 GMT -6
If you want the link, just PM me
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Post by rsmith627 on Jan 7, 2014 10:00:19 GMT -6
I've got a FOIA article on the salaries in SC. There are about a dozen that are getting 6 figures, some teaching nothing but the football class, some are tied to the AD position. Those mostly are your big time schools. Most HCs are getting salary plus 5-10,000 plus maybe a lighter load in the classroom. ACs are getting 3500-7000 while teaching full time. VERY few OC/DCs get more than an extra planning or a little more cabbage. SC has some great programs, and some of the HCs get some great perks. There some schools with full time S&S coaches. There are some districts that realize that athletics can be parlayed into a bigger school presence and invest in facilities. Most coaches are still making less than most by the time you add both teaching pay and supplements. Cost of living is good and the overall culture is great. Don't get me wrong, I don't think any school even in TX could make it worth my move. Overall considering the cost of living I've got made. I know there are a large number of NC coaches around the Charlotte area jumping or planning on jumping the border to SC due to terrible pay and lack of administrative support in the investment of the programs and lack of backbones to appease parents at all costs, leaving coaches hanging out to dry. Sent from my VS980 4G using proboards In my experience NC is the worst of all worlds, unless you like gangs.
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Post by scotdaking on Jan 7, 2014 13:02:30 GMT -6
SC sounds good but Texas is the best. Cost of living comparable to SC. Forgot to mention the explosion of the 7 on 7 programs in Texas. The middle schools are ramping up the 7 on 7. Tried to convince the O lineman and LBs to get involved but they see it as a strictly offense exercise. 7 on 7 is a major reason why the offensive units in Texas are off to such a fast start. We ran the pistol in 2009 and read option in 2010 with the 10 and 11 year olds. Texas is still a leader in offensive ingenuity. All the talk about SEC football stems from schools recruiting Texas football players. Alabama and FSU are big on recruiting Texas kids and are the reason the Univ of Texas has fallen off. Number of Texas players in the NFL is impressive. I mean you had Drew Brees and Nick Foles from the same Texas high school (Westlake) competing in the playoffs. Football starts here. Still cudos to SC, Georgia and watch out for Missouri and Mississippi.
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Post by fantom on Jan 7, 2014 13:04:52 GMT -6
SC sounds good but Texas is the best. Cost of living comparable to SC. Forgot to mention the explosion of the 7 on 7 programs in Texas. The middle schools are ramping up the 7 on 7. Tried to convince the O lineman and LBs to get involved but they see it as a strictly offense exercise. 7 on 7 is a major reason why the offensive units in Texas are off to such a fast start. We ran the pistol in 2009 and read option in 2010 with the 10 and 11 year olds. Texas is still a leader in offensive ingenuity. All the talk about SEC football stems from schools recruiting Texas football players. Alabama and FSU are big on recruiting Texas kids and are the reason the Univ of Texas has fallen off. Number of Texas players in the NFL is impressive. I mean you had Drew Brees and Nick Foles from the same Texas high school (Westlake) competing in the playoffs. Football starts here. Still cudos to SC, Georgia and watch out for Missouri and Mississippi. Not everybody considers the explosion of 7 on 7 to be a good thing.
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Post by fantom on Jan 7, 2014 13:51:39 GMT -6
SC sounds good but Texas is the best. Cost of living comparable to SC. Forgot to mention the explosion of the 7 on 7 programs in Texas. The middle schools are ramping up the 7 on 7. Tried to convince the O lineman and LBs to get involved but they see it as a strictly offense exercise. 7 on 7 is a major reason why the offensive units in Texas are off to such a fast start. We ran the pistol in 2009 and read option in 2010 with the 10 and 11 year olds. Texas is still a leader in offensive ingenuity. All the talk about SEC football stems from schools recruiting Texas football players. Alabama and FSU are big on recruiting Texas kids and are the reason the Univ of Texas has fallen off. Number of Texas players in the NFL is impressive. I mean you had Drew Brees and Nick Foles from the same Texas high school (Westlake) competing in the playoffs. Football starts here. Still cudos to SC, Georgia and watch out for Missouri and Mississippi. Not everybody considers the explosion of 7 on 7 to be a good thing. Something to remember that, as others have mentioned, this thread is NOT about the state that has the best football. It's about the state where it's best to coach. With the added time commitments on players and coaches in the offseason, a lot of people-including me- will not consider an extensive 7 on 7 schedule to be an enhancement of their working conditions. Add in the fact that greater emphasis on 7 on 7 increases profile in AAU in football and you'll see why a lot of us are not huge 7 on 7 fans.
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Post by huskerhoyahawk on Jan 8, 2014 20:23:34 GMT -6
I'll give some love to my home state of maryland. Make 51k with a master's and a 4.8k stipend on step one of the salary scale. However it is pretty expensive for housing around here. The areas that have success have very strong youth programs and community support. Some districts allow coaches to be an AD (mine doesnt). There are also a lot of beautiful areas around and the climate is good for the most part.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using proboards
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 8, 2014 22:29:49 GMT -6
SC sounds good but Texas is the best. Cost of living comparable to SC. Forgot to mention the explosion of the 7 on 7 programs in Texas. The middle schools are ramping up the 7 on 7. Tried to convince the O lineman and LBs to get involved but they see it as a strictly offense exercise. 7 on 7 is a major reason why the offensive units in Texas are off to such a fast start. We ran the pistol in 2009 and read option in 2010 with the 10 and 11 year olds. Texas is still a leader in offensive ingenuity. All the talk about SEC football stems from schools recruiting Texas football players. Alabama and FSU are big on recruiting Texas kids and are the reason the Univ of Texas has fallen off. Number of Texas players in the NFL is impressive. I mean you had Drew Brees and Nick Foles from the same Texas high school (Westlake) competing in the playoffs. Football starts here. Still cudos to SC, Georgia and watch out for Missouri and Mississippi. A quick scan of the 2013 media guides showed : 6 Bama players (and 2 signees) come from TEX. FSU lists 2 Tex players on its 2013 roster and NO signees Auburn had 1 player from Tex and NO signees Missouri had 4 Tex players and 3 signees LSU had 9 players and NO Signees A&M had a lot of Tex players though Soo... Since you brought up the NFL players subject, TEX isn't even in the top 5 in NFL players per capita. It is 9th, behind Louisiana, South Carolina, Mississippi, Bama, Florida, Georgia, Montana, and The District of Columbia. Sooooo.. Not trying to start a pi$$in match, just saying if you are going to introduce a concept "(all the talk about SEC football stems from schools recruiting Tex....etc. ) and say that Alabama and Florida State heavily raid the Tex schoolboy ranks, you should make sure the facts don't say otherwise. Not to mention that very little of what you typed has to do with the topic of best state to coach High School Football, but good on you guys for running the pistol and read option with 5th and 6th graders...
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Post by justaballcoach on Jan 9, 2014 0:46:12 GMT -6
It's gotta be Texas. Assistants generally make 50-65 with stipends added. Head coaches make from 80-105, usually with no classroom duties. Good retirement. Low cost of living.
You can't match the level of interest from the communities, and the level of dedication to athletics from school districts.
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Post by rcole on Jan 9, 2014 8:06:07 GMT -6
I'm sure Texas is number one, but I will cast a vote for SC as one of the top for the reasons already mentioned. Coaching pay is good. Teacher pay is good when compared to the cost of living. Depending on where you are in the state, it is a great place to live.
Two years ago I was an assistant, coaching pay was over $6,000. My total pay package including teaching was almost 60,000. Compare that to real estate costs, I live in a middle class 1970's neighborhood in a suburb of a great medium sized city and my home only cost $110,000 in 2008. 3 Bedroom, 2 bath, move in ready, not a fixer-upper. About 2 hours from Atlanta, 1.5 hours from Charlotte. Although I never go to either because my own city offers almost everything. 3 hours from the ocean, 10 minutes from significant mountains. If you work in a more rural part of the state you can get acreage and a nice 2,500 square foot house for under 200,000 in some places. Now there are certainly neighborhoods where you can pay way too much for a home as well, if that is what your are into.
Football talent? It's great. We are top 5 in NFL players almost every year. But, when you look at NFL talent per capita, we are often top 2. A few years back the data showed that a high school player here had almost a 5 times greater probability of making the pros than a high school player in California. Point being, we are a very small state with very few high school players, but a very high quality of talent playing ball. And culturally, football is HUGE in this state.
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Post by scotdaking on Jan 10, 2014 0:13:47 GMT -6
Fair enough. But $60 million dollar stadiums and many that rival college stadiums. Turf fields. Tremendous weight rooms and indoor practice fields. Big time youth football programs. Sane parents. Wholesome bible-belt kids. That's Texas football. Not trying to argue. I want football programs and teacher salaries to explode in all states.
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Post by k on Jan 10, 2014 8:06:24 GMT -6
I think what this thread shows is that there is no "best state" for football. I look at some of the arguments that are being made in favor of Texas and think, "Well... Thats why I would NEVER live in Texas."
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 10, 2014 8:13:56 GMT -6
I think what this thread shows is that there is no "best state" for football. I look at some of the arguments that are being made in favor of Texas and think, "Well... Thats why I would NEVER live in Texas." This pretty much sums it up. In a related subject matter here, how routine is it to have your teaching position tied to the coaching position (for both HC and assistants) in various states/districts?
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Post by rsmith627 on Jan 10, 2014 15:08:44 GMT -6
I think what this thread shows is that there is no "best state" for football. I look at some of the arguments that are being made in favor of Texas and think, "Well... Thats why I would NEVER live in Texas." This pretty much sums it up. In a related subject matter here, how routine is it to have your teaching position tied to the coaching position (for both HC and assistants) in various states/districts? Mine is in Utah. If I don't coach, I don't have a job. With that said, our HC doesn't work in the building. It's a new concept in my school. They have been burned many times in the past by guys coaching a season or 2 and quitting, but not relinquishing their teaching jobs. Makes it hard to get coaches in the building.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 15:11:42 GMT -6
I would venture to say that it's not common at all based on my experiences teaching in both Illinois and Iowa. It's pretty common, actually, for coaches to get tenured in their teaching spot and then quit coaching. Obviously, this makes finding the next coach that much harder.
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Post by rpetrie on Jan 10, 2014 16:29:56 GMT -6
In NY...coaching & teaching contracts are completely separate. I don't think they should be tied together, but it does create a problem with getting varsity coaches at times. I'm sure its not uncommon, but 2/4 varsity assistants are out-of-district guys, but they live locally. My 2 JV coaches are both in district, and in the building. All my JH staff are also in-district. Wasn't that way when I started as HC in which only 4/11 coaching positions were in district.
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Post by coachwoodall on Jan 10, 2014 20:31:13 GMT -6
Mostly in SC they aren't tied together, but then again they are. Most are hired as a coach, and then they fill in the teaching post or at least the two are tied together.
If you quit coaching, then you don't lose your teaching job; but it you were initially hired as a teacher b/c you were a coach, then you can expect to be on the short end of the duty roster to say the least. Unless your in classroom performance is substantial.
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Post by fballcoachg on Jan 11, 2014 12:52:16 GMT -6
Mostly in SC they aren't tied together, but then again they are. Most are hired as a coach, and then they fill in the teaching post or at least the two are tied together. If you quit coaching, then you don't lose your teaching job; but it you were initially hired as a teacher b/c you were a coach, then you can expect to be on the short end of the duty roster to say the least. Unless your in classroom performance is substantial. That's been 2 of my 3 experiences and quite frankly, if you get hired on and a big reason you were was because you are a teacher you shouldn't expect your teaching job to be there if you give up your coaching job. I know that sentiment won't be popular here but I too have seen many people get hired as teacher/coaches and then give up coaching and hold a PE job at ransom. I said this in a thread a few years ago and got fried by some but specific teacher jobs should be given priority to coaches, it should be an extension/understanding and PE is one of them...we had 7 PE/Health teachers at my last school and 3 coached, ridiculous.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 11, 2014 14:08:09 GMT -6
The reason I asked the"is the teaching position tied to the coaching position?" question is I think that is important in this discussion (at least for teacher/coaches) I would have to say for MOST teacher/coaches, job security is fairly important (wasn't on the original list). If going 6-4, 5-5 etc can cost you your Mortgage payment job, as both a HC or even worse as an assistant (since I am betting places with tied teacher/coaching contracts generally don't retain assistants unless the new HC wants them) I don't know if I would consider that such a great place to coach.
That said, I totally agree with the above statement regarding PE teachers and coaching. I don't necessarily think that coaches should be given priority, BUT i definitely think if a candidates coaching was a factor in him/her being hired, then they should have the integrity to keep coaching once tenured. And their admins should hold them as PE teachers to the exact same standards they hold the tested subjects teachers. That is the bigger issue. PE is often viewed as a cushy job because it is allowed to be performed as a "cushy" job.
I made several phone calls to the central office and human resources when I was thinking of leaving coaching and just teaching PE, making Damn sure that my coaching had nothing to do with my being hired for a elementary PE teaching position. If they had said "yes, we hired you in our program because you were coaching at _____ school" I would not have resigned my coaching position. That is a big pet peeve of mine, and it sadly seems to be fairly common in my district.
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Post by mahonz on Jan 11, 2014 14:34:16 GMT -6
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Post by fantom on Jan 11, 2014 16:09:19 GMT -6
Fair enough. But $60 million dollar stadiums and many that rival college stadiums. Turf fields. Tremendous weight rooms and indoor practice fields. Big time youth football programs. Sane parents. Wholesome bible-belt kids. That's Texas football. Not trying to argue. I want football programs and teacher salaries to explode in all states. Sane parents and wholesome kids? Everywhere in Texas?
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Post by fantom on Jan 11, 2014 16:19:31 GMT -6
The reason I asked the"is the teaching position tied to the coaching position?" question is I think that is important in this discussion (at least for teacher/coaches) I would have to say for MOST teacher/coaches, job security is fairly important (wasn't on the original list). If going 6-4, 5-5 etc can cost you your Mortgage payment job, as both a HC or even worse as an assistant (since I am betting places with tied teacher/coaching contracts generally don't retain assistants unless the new HC wants them) I don't know if I would consider that such a great place to coach. That said, I totally agree with the above statement regarding PE teachers and coaching. I don't necessarily think that coaches should be given priority, BUT i definitely think if a candidates coaching was a factor in him/her being hired, then they should have the integrity to keep coaching once tenured. And their admins should hold them as PE teachers to the exact same standards they hold the tested subjects teachers. That is the bigger issue. PE is often viewed as a cushy job because it is allowed to be performed as a "cushy" job. I made several phone calls to the central office and human resources when I was thinking of leaving coaching and just teaching PE, making Damn sure that my coaching had nothing to do with my being hired for a elementary PE teaching position. If they had said "yes, we hired you in our program because you were coaching at _____ school" I would not have resigned my coaching position. That is a big pet peeve of mine, and it sadly seems to be fairly common in my district. Hiring a PE teacher who doesn't coach doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't think that they should lose their teaching jobs if they lose their coaching jobs (unless that was specified in advance) and they should be held to the same classroom expectations as other teachers but I don't see why you'd hire a PE teacher who doesn't coach.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 11, 2014 16:45:54 GMT -6
Hiring a PE teacher who doesn't coach doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't think that they should lose their teaching jobs if they lose their coaching jobs (unless that was specified in advance) and they should be held to the same classroom expectations as other teachers but I don't see why you'd hire a PE teacher who doesn't coach. I would agree as a general hiring practice. I know a few private schools where there is part of the contract. Teach PE and coach at least 2 sports. I am sure there are some individual circumstances where you might not, but yes, admins are probably not helping their schools very much if they hire a PE teacher who takes off at the 3pm bell.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 11, 2014 17:34:29 GMT -6
After providing evidence to disprove the "SEC is build on Texas Kids" and the "# of NFL players from TEX is impressive" I didn't have the heart to point out the fallacy of the Sane parents and Wholesome bible-belt kids... scotdaking Love your passion and loyalty, BUT it may help your development as a coach to at least RECOGNIZE your fandom seems to have a heavy influence, and perhaps make decisions accordingly.
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Post by agjarrell on Jan 11, 2014 19:53:13 GMT -6
It is nice as a first year teacher to make 56k as an assistant coach and teacher with only 4 classes out of the 7 to teach, with my conference period and 2 athletic periods in Texas.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 11, 2014 20:03:07 GMT -6
It is nice as a first year teacher to make 56k as an assistant coach and teacher with only 4 classes out of the 7 to teach, with my conference period and 2 athletic periods in Texas. Coach, if your HC is dismissed, or leaves to take another job and doesn't take you with him do you expect to still teach/coach there or is it more common that you will be dismissed as well?
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Post by rsmith627 on Jan 11, 2014 20:04:18 GMT -6
Mostly in SC they aren't tied together, but then again they are. Most are hired as a coach, and then they fill in the teaching post or at least the two are tied together. If you quit coaching, then you don't lose your teaching job; but it you were initially hired as a teacher b/c you were a coach, then you can expect to be on the short end of the duty roster to say the least. Unless your in classroom performance is substantial. That's been 2 of my 3 experiences and quite frankly, if you get hired on and a big reason you were was because you are a teacher you shouldn't expect your teaching job to be there if you give up your coaching job. I know that sentiment won't be popular here but I too have seen many people get hired as teacher/coaches and then give up coaching and hold a PE job at ransom. I said this in a thread a few years ago and got fried by some but specific teacher jobs should be given priority to coaches, it should be an extension/understanding and PE is one of them...we had 7 PE/Health teachers at my last school and 3 coached, ridiculous. All 7 should be coaching. I am not a PE guy and have no problem with PE teachers, but they don't have near the amount of planning and grading as most teachers. I teach Spanish and find ways to keep my grading pretty light, but still spend a ton of time planning. I would love to be able to coach and teach PE. The other side of that is, our PE teachers have classes of 65 kids. My biggest is 37, so I have less to manage in the classroom. Each has its trade offs I guess.
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Post by realdawg on Jan 12, 2014 7:28:08 GMT -6
I just recently switched from history to PE. As mentioned I am grading much less (none) and planning much less (very little). But I've already had more lazy kids tell me they weren't gonna do something which never happened in the history classroom, and it seems like their is one kid in every class who likes to get missing and you can't keep up with them. When I was hired to make the switch it was with the understanding that I would coach a 2nd sport if asked to do so. So far I haven't been but it's a possibility.
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Post by rpetrie on Jan 12, 2014 10:27:56 GMT -6
I did the opposite of REALDAWG, and went from PE to Biology/Science. I actually enjoy the academic aspect of the classroom but the workload is much greater for sure.
Regarding the aspect of PE teachers being primarily coaches...my district is not of that mindset and of the 12 PE/Health teachers in the district...only 6 coach (5 males & 1 female). Not sure if this is a trend or not but we have most of our coaches coming from more of the traditional academic areas.
Var. Football - Biology (myself)...I also coach MS Wrestling Var. Boys Basketball - English Var. Wrestling - Earth Science Var. Baseball - HS PE (male) Var. Boys Soccer - Business Var. Girls Soccer - (same coach for Baseball) Var. Field Hockey - MS PE (female)...also coaches JV Softball Var. Boys Lax - HS/MS PE (split)...also coaches MS Football Var. Girls Lax - MS Special Ed. Boys Tennis - HS PE (male)..also coaches MS Boys Basketball Girls Tennis - Art Boys Cross Country - MS Math Girls Cross Country - MS Social Studies Boys Track - 2 coaches: Same coach as wrestling (Earth Sc.) & a MS-Math teacher Girls Track - 2 coaches: Same coach as Girls CC & a MS-PE (male)
Var. Girls Volleyball, Basketball & Softball are coached by "out of district" persons
JV Coaching Positions Football (2) - both HS Social Studies Girls Volleyball (1) - HS Business (female) Wrestling (1) - HS Health Baseball (1) - MS Math...also coaches HS Winter Track JV Boys Lax (2) - HS Social Studies & Chemistry
All other JV positions (Field Hockey, Girls Lax, Boys & Girls Soccer, Boys Basketball) are coached by non-district people. 2/4 of my Varsity Staff are also non-district personnel. The other one is an ISS Room TA who is Social Studies/Special Ed certified.
Another MS PE teacher coaches MS Baseball, but not a single HS PE female teacher coaches anything. No Elementary PE teachers coach either...both are males.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 12, 2014 10:47:47 GMT -6
rpetrie and fantom I wonder if part of the issue is that things are "out of synch" so to speak with the hiring practices. Meaning when a PE job opens up, none of the applicable coaching jobs are open, and when a coaching job opens up, there are no PE jobs available.
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Post by fantom on Jan 12, 2014 11:05:55 GMT -6
rpetrie and fantom I wonder if part of the issue is that things are "out of synch" so to speak with the hiring practices. Meaning when a PE job opens up, none of the applicable coaching jobs are open, and when a coaching job opens up, there are no PE jobs available. Sure, that can happen. We're a big school, though. There might not be football openings at the same time that a PE job comes open but there's bound to be an opening on some sport's staff.
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