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Post by emptybackfield on Dec 30, 2012 8:04:49 GMT -6
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Post by blb on Dec 30, 2012 8:32:08 GMT -6
I have never been involved in such a situation.
After reading the article it sounds like a reporter trying to create something when there is little to nothing there and perhaps make Bielema look bad after "running out" on Badgers.
The head coach is not always right, but he is always the head coach. His record, his way, unless you can convince him of a "better" way.
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Post by emptybackfield on Dec 30, 2012 8:42:22 GMT -6
I have never been involved in such a situation. After reading the article it sounds like a reporter trying to create something when there is little to nothing there and perhaps make Bielema look bad after "running out" on Badgers. The head coach is not always right, but he is always the head coach. His record, his way, unless you can convince him of a "better" way. Yeah, probably exaggerated quite a bit for the media effect. At the end of the day, like you said, there is only one name being printed in the paper. However, the reputation of coordinators are on the line too. The record doesn't follow them, but there name is linked with the results of that offense, defense, or special teams. |
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Post by btex0127 on Dec 30, 2012 8:46:08 GMT -6
There is no power struggle between hc and anyone. He is right period. You may disagree behind closed doors, but in public he is right. Not being loyal is one thing that will keep you from getting job in the future. I know this, the hc is the one with the W or the L next to his name, if he gets fired so do I. If he wants to run the ball 90% of he time, I agree with him in public.
As for the article, it is a reporter trying to sell papers. It was done behind closed doors.
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Post by coachbuck on Dec 30, 2012 8:49:04 GMT -6
I had a OC that would not use some formations that I had wanted him to use. It got to the point that I told him if he didnt use those formations for certain plays he would no longer be the OC. I dont know if you would consider this a bad relationship. It ended good he used the formations and our offense was better for it. The HC as we all know is not always the best or most qualified on the staff but he is the one that is responsible for the teams wins and losses so he deserves to make the calls.
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Post by emptybackfield on Dec 30, 2012 8:55:43 GMT -6
There is no power struggle between hc and anyone. He is right period. You may disagree behind closed doors, but in public he is right. Not being loyal is one thing that will keep you from getting job in the future. I know this, the hc is the one with the W or the L next to his name, if he gets fired so do I. If he wants to run the ball 90% of he time, I agree with him in public. As for the article, it is a reporter trying to sell papers. It was done behind closed doors. I didn't start this thread to see what people did "in public". I think we all have enough sense to be a company man in public. I started this thread to discuss and have people share their experiences about disagreements with the head coach (or if you're a head coach, your disagreements with coordinators) and how they were handled. |
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Post by btex0127 on Dec 30, 2012 9:03:51 GMT -6
Had many many disagreements over the years, on both sides. Stood toe to toe yelling at each other. It is like any family, you may yell it out at times, but always handled the same, hc gets to make the final call.
I think every staff has times where they disagree.
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Post by emptybackfield on Dec 30, 2012 9:09:29 GMT -6
Had many many disagreements over the years, on both sides. Stood toe to toe yelling at each other. It is like any family, you may yell it out at times, but always handled the same, hc gets to make the final call. I think every staff has times where they disagree. Have you as an assistant ever yelled at a head coach, or as a head coach had an assistant yell at you? That seems like a line you don't cross, in my opinion. |
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Post by btex0127 on Dec 30, 2012 9:12:55 GMT -6
In public? Or behind closed doors?
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Post by emptybackfield on Dec 30, 2012 9:19:28 GMT -6
In public? Or behind closed doors? Both, I guess. Maybe our definition of yelling is different, but I think there is a respect barrier you have to be aware of and "yelling" impedes on that. I understand it's an emotional game, but yelling at your boss just doesn't seem like a smart idea. I'm not saying you can't disagree, but if a head coach feels so strongly about something that he's yelling, then I don't see the point in yelling back. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 30, 2012 9:20:51 GMT -6
Ugh--the article REEKED of someone trying to "make news". Horrible piece of journalism. I would say that almost EVERYONE with any real experience coaching has had a similar experience to "what really happened" (coaches disagree with particulars ) as opposed to what the reporter was trying to insinuate (ie.. coach who scorned UW by leaving was really a big douche and held us back and we would be #1 in the country if he would have let 'super innovative and creative' offensive coach do whatever he wanted).
--I had typed up some of my similar stories.... but.. erased because I wasn't sure if it would come off like airing dirty laundry since everything would only be my side..
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Post by spos21ram on Dec 30, 2012 9:21:02 GMT -6
Had many many disagreements over the years, on both sides. Stood toe to toe yelling at each other. It is like any family, you may yell it out at times, but always handled the same, hc gets to make the final call. I think every staff has times where they disagree. Have you as an assistant ever yelled at a head coach, or as a head coach had an assistant yell at you? That seems like a line you don't cross, in my opinion. Behind closed doors it happens a lot. Discussions get heated. Grown men don't take these arguments personally. 10 minutes later they're drinking a beer together. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards |
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Post by blb on Dec 30, 2012 9:24:28 GMT -6
Bo said when he was assistant at Ohio State Woody fired him several times.
The Old Man even threw a projector at him once.
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Post by btex0127 on Dec 30, 2012 9:25:19 GMT -6
In public never, behind closed doors yes. Two type A personalities, it happens. The key is how it is handled once it is over. Staffs that are together a long time tend to be more like this where I have been.
I was fired three times one game as an OC.
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Post by fantom on Dec 30, 2012 9:27:58 GMT -6
Had many many disagreements over the years, on both sides. Stood toe to toe yelling at each other. It is like any family, you may yell it out at times, but always handled the same, hc gets to make the final call. I think every staff has times where they disagree. Have you as an assistant ever yelled at a head coach, or as a head coach had an assistant yell at you? That seems like a line you don't cross, in my opinion. Hell, at my last place you were considered a rookie until you'd been fired on the sidelines during a game, twice. |
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Post by emptybackfield on Dec 30, 2012 9:28:57 GMT -6
Bo said when he was assistant at Ohio State Woody fired him several times. The Old Man even threw a projector at him once. Woody threw a projector at Schembechler? That's great. As for the article, I'm not defending the journalism. I know what the media does, they're in it to sell papers and get hits on their websites. However, it just got me thinking about these certain situations in coaching. I know they're inevitable. I just wanted to get some discussion going on the experience of assistant coaches having their "hands tied" by head coaches or head coaches getting undermined by assistants, etc. And to add a disclaimer: I'm not at all saying that's what happened in Madison, so you're wasting bandwidth and energy telling me this is a slanted article. |
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Post by btex0127 on Dec 30, 2012 9:39:23 GMT -6
I am not sure I would say hands tied, or undermined.
As hands tied goes it is his call. As undermined, well they get fired.
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Post by coachbuck on Dec 30, 2012 9:39:46 GMT -6
I had two different experiences this year. On my youth team I was the HC. I had a few blowouts with my line coach. We battled and like most said on here 10 minutes later you would never know it happened. I liked and respected that we disagreed. My H.S. experience this year with the var HC was much different. I had a difference of opinion on several issues in private. I would then be ignored by the var staff. It was a crazy deal. I resigned and am moving on. If your ego is so big that you cant have someone disagree with you then you should not be an HC.
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Post by fantom on Dec 30, 2012 9:43:58 GMT -6
During games we never had arguments for a simple reason. I called the defense, the HC called the offense. When we were on defense if the boss had an helpful suggestion all I had to do was sa, "Look, I'm busy. I gotta get this phucking call in". When we were on offense I stayed as faraway from him as physically possible. See? No arguments.
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Post by spos21ram on Dec 30, 2012 9:45:33 GMT -6
I am not sure I would say hands tied, or undermined. As hands tied goes it is his call. As undermined, well they get fired. The HC always gets the final say, but at the college level, the NFL, and at plenty of high schools, an OC is hired to implement HIS system especially if the HC is a defensive guy. Ofcourse these coordinators are going to put up a fight when they are restricted on what they can do. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards |
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Post by btex0127 on Dec 30, 2012 9:54:59 GMT -6
From 25 to 25 is a long way away, but up in booth is further. I made a mistake this year. We were playing in a town with a very small booth. One. Guy on defensive staff says he can not take it and is going to sideline. Well I should have said no, but we were getting the ball and I was thinking about the first series of play calls. Needless to say this went over less than well. I knew better just did not have time to think about it. We joke about it now as a staff but it was one of those moments.
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Post by emptybackfield on Dec 30, 2012 10:03:35 GMT -6
I am not sure I would say hands tied, or undermined. As hands tied goes it is his call. As undermined, well they get fired. The HC always gets the final say, but at the college level, the NFL, and at plenty of high schools, an OC is hired to implement HIS system especially if the HC is a defensive guy. Ofcourse these coordinators are going to put up a fight when they are restricted on what they can do. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards That's what I found most interesting about this. Beilema is a defensive guy, I found it odd that if he's (allegedly) micromanaging his OC. |
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Post by davishfc on Dec 30, 2012 10:16:51 GMT -6
I have had issues with assistant coaches of mine in the past as well. Like everybody else has I suppose. We handled them behind closed doors. It was hardly ever anything schematically.
At the last place I was at, my OL coach that had been with me at this point for one of the four years we worked together. We were in a meeting talking about something, I don't even remember what it was now (maybe coachklee remembers, he's the coach I'm talking about). Everyone was given an opportunity to speak their mind. After that happened, I made a decision and we moved on. So I thought.
He kept talking about it and I had made a decision already. It got to the point that I dropped the infamous line, "because I'm the head coach. And when you become a head coach, then you can do it your way. But until then, this is how it's going to be. This is what I want done!" Still to this day it's the only time that I've felt compelled to say that. Then we proceeded with the meeting.
He and I have a great relationship to this day. Though I took another head coaching job with another program, he is a great friend and former colleague who I am in constant contact with. There was an opening and I recommended two candidates. Him and a teammate I had in college who had coaching experience as well.
He didn't get it unfortunately the other guy did. A couple disadvantages were he hadn't taught Social Studies before, he was nervous in the interview, and the administrator (a former varsity head coach) just liked the personality of the other candidate more. The position was in his building so it made sense that he had more say than the other administrators.
Though he didn't get the position, it spoke to the relationship we had developed over the years when I wanted him here with me. I wanted him here, it just didn't work out. Bottom line...we came from the situation I described above to me wanting him to come with me to my new job. Quite a turnaround I would say.
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Post by fballcoachg on Dec 30, 2012 10:46:34 GMT -6
Adamant disagreements, yelling, toe to toe...yep. In meetings or off-season and honestly lines have probably been crossed however I respect the HC and I think he respects me because we are both working so hard towards the same goal. It has gotten to points a time or two where he has said in not so certain terms, "I'm the HC, we are doing it this way." Afterwards we were fine, just a heat of the moment deal from 2 people that are passionate about what they do. I think it comes back to hard work, relationships, and respect. And contrary to popular belief there is a time and place where respect doesn't look like respect, you can be toe to toe and seconds away from blows without losing the respect factor if you have that relationship.
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Post by davishfc on Dec 30, 2012 11:34:05 GMT -6
The head coach is not always right, but he is always the head coach. His record, his way, unless you can convince him of a "better" way. That's the key. As an assistant, you must be able to explain and justify why a different way would be better. You just thinking it's better isn't enough. "Oh I've got a hunch" or "my gut tells me we should" are all BS. Give me some legitimate, educated alternatives. As a head coach, I explain and try to help my assistants understand my rationale for wanting to do things a certain way. A lot of times, assistants just don't understand how much more thought head coaches put into the decision. It hasn't just been during that meeting that issues are contemplated. The head coach doesn't put stuff down. Sometimes it just boils down to my assistants not being with me through that decision making process I made while I was at home, or at school, or on the can for that matter. So I'm sure to explain the change in detail so they understand. |
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Post by davishfc on Dec 30, 2012 11:40:14 GMT -6
My H.S. experience this year with the var HC was much different. I had a difference of opinion on several issues in private. I would then be ignored by the var staff. It was a crazy deal. I resigned and am moving on. If your ego is so big that you cant have someone disagree with you then you should not be an HC. This concerns me because I doubt he would've told the rest of the staff to give you the cold shoulder. Sounds very high school girl-ish to me. Not Head Coach. So if that were the case, and the staff did ignore you, why was that? What was brought up on your end that ended up so isolating for you? I think the other part of this is the amount and tone of the critiquing by a first year assistant is never taken well. So reflecting on what you brought up and how you brought it up are important factors to consider. |
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Post by wingtol on Dec 30, 2012 12:55:12 GMT -6
[/quote]
That's what I found most interesting about this. Beilema is a defensive guy, I found it odd that if he's (allegedly) micromanaging his OC. [/quote]
Why wouldn't he since he is getting paid multi-millions to win football games? It's his TEAM not just his defense.
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Post by spos21ram on Dec 30, 2012 12:57:51 GMT -6
That's what I found most interesting about this. Beilema is a defensive guy, I found it odd that if he's (allegedly) micromanaging his OC. [/quote] Why wouldn't he since he is getting paid multi-millions to win football games? It's his TEAM not just his defense. [/quote] Because at that level the OC is pretty much the HC of the offense. DC of the defense and the HC over sees everything. If the HC doesn't like what the OC runs then Why hire him? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards |
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Post by emptybackfield on Dec 30, 2012 13:03:04 GMT -6
Because at that level the OC is pretty much the HC of the offense. DC of the defense and the HC over sees everything. If the HC doesn't like what the OC runs then Why hire him? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards Exactly |
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Post by davishfc on Dec 30, 2012 13:15:36 GMT -6
If the HC doesn't like what the OC runs then Why hire him? The HC could agree with the offensive philosophy and like the majority of what the OC is doing but not all of it. If the HC doesn't like something, he can express to the OC that he doesn't and leave it at that. If he wants to, he can tell the OC to change it. It's not micromanaging. You said it. The HC oversees everything. He has the ability to make the OC change. The OC will have that ability when he's a HC. That's how it works. |
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