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Post by caneman on Apr 18, 2009 8:54:45 GMT -6
I want to work with the kids that society finds irredeemable. Maybe I'll find that I can't change them either....but I want the opportunity to try. I admire and respect that ambition. I coached at a school that had these types of kids, very frustrating because there really is not much you can do to help these kids other than being present to them as a positive and supportive figure in their life. Kids can't be at practice because: mom didn't come home last night, mom got locked up, had to baby sit, had to work, etc. You throw out one of those big 10 pound bags of pretzels you can get from costco and it gets demolished in less than 30 minutes, throw out a few loaves of bread and big jar of peanut butter with the same result... it is very sad you feel so bad for the kids. You don't really know what kind of impact you have on them, you just hope it helps in some way. Caneman
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Post by phantom on Apr 18, 2009 11:01:50 GMT -6
Let's not kid ourselves. It's always been hard to find lifers- true professionals. I'm 55 and have coached for 30 years. There are exactly two other coaches in our league that are as old and have done this for the same amount of time. I don't think I can sit down and make a list of all of the guys who have coached at our place during my 20 years here.
It's a tough business. People come and go. Add in the fact that school administrators do not make it a priority to look for coaches when hiring teachers and you have the fiasco that you have today.
At the school where I used to teach, the HFC was having a hard time finsing assistants. What did the school do? They hired a male PE teacher who doesn't coach anything. Didn't even ask the HFC to sit in on interviews.
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Post by coachorr on Apr 18, 2009 17:46:15 GMT -6
At the school where I used to teach, the HFC was having a hard time finsing assistants. What did the school do? They hired a male PE teacher who doesn't coach anything. Didn't even ask the HFC to sit in on interviews. This is why I think we have to take it personally and work extra hard to erase the Mr. Woodcock stigma. Our district has done the same thing for over 15 years and they have a lot of people from outside the district coaching certain sports. Not that it's bad, however, it can be a challenge to always find people who have regular schedules to A) Put the time in needed and B) Who are knowledgeable enough to do it. I personally think the district office would like sports to go away. and just let the parents coach it.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Apr 18, 2009 17:53:26 GMT -6
Ding ding ding- winner
I worked for a guy that hated having teachers coach because of the bs that hed have to deal with. He felt that teachers needed their focus on their classrooms and not the drama that parents/sports create.
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tsu
Junior Member
Posts: 391
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Post by tsu on Apr 18, 2009 21:47:00 GMT -6
Yeah i have thought about trying to be certified in other areas. thats what i wanted to do a science minor, but turns out i would be here longer than tubby off of black sheep. So just taking some classes in another field probably science( only other subject i could teach ) then hope i get lucky on the test seems like my only shot. But heres the thing. i was talking to an ex-coach that had been teaching math for about 15yrs because he is certified in it. The man majored in history but took the math test and passed when he got out of college so he could get a job easier. 15 yrs later he hasn't seen a history classroom yet. I have this opportunity to possibly get certified in Spanish because i have to take 4 semesters of it any way, for a history degree . that crap kills my GPA out of curiosity does it help to be-able to teach all of the social studies very much as apposed to some that are only certified in American hist? ?? sorry i know this is a kind of career section post.
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Post by airraider on Apr 18, 2009 23:34:14 GMT -6
Yeah i have thought about trying to be certified in other areas. thats what i wanted to do a science minor, but turns out i would be here longer than tubby off of black sheep. So just taking some classes in another field probably science( only other subject i could teach ) then hope i get lucky on the test seems like my only shot. But heres the thing. i was talking to an ex-coach that had been teaching math for about 15yrs because he is certified in it. The man majored in history but took the math test and passed when he got out of college so he could get a job easier. 15 yrs later he hasn't seen a history classroom yet. I have this opportunity to possibly get certified in Spanish because i have to take 4 semesters of it any way, for a history degree . that crap kills my GPA out of curiosity does it help to be-able to teach all of the social studies very much as apposed to some that are only certified in American hist? ?? sorry i know this is a kind of career section post. I am SS composite certified. A large portion of my course work came in Sociology. I really do not know jack about History, but I am teaching World History. So, I have to learn everything before I can teach it. After a year or so.. I will know it.. and will be even better at teaching it.. The content knowledge is not the most important thing.. Its the desire and ability to become familiar with it before you teach it to your students.
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tsu
Junior Member
Posts: 391
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Post by tsu on Apr 19, 2009 10:00:52 GMT -6
Ok i know history pretty well ill think be alright if i find a job. I hope!
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Post by phantom on Apr 19, 2009 10:07:19 GMT -6
Yeah i have thought about trying to be certified in other areas. thats what i wanted to do a science minor, but turns out i would be here longer than tubby off of black sheep. So just taking some classes in another field probably science( only other subject i could teach ) then hope i get lucky on the test seems like my only shot. But heres the thing. i was talking to an ex-coach that had been teaching math for about 15yrs because he is certified in it. The man majored in history but took the math test and passed when he got out of college so he could get a job easier. 15 yrs later he hasn't seen a history classroom yet. I have this opportunity to possibly get certified in Spanish because i have to take 4 semesters of it any way, for a history degree . that crap kills my GPA out of curiosity does it help to be-able to teach all of the social studies very much as apposed to some that are only certified in American hist? ?? sorry i know this is a kind of career section post. I am SS composite certified. A large portion of my course work came in Sociology. I really do not know jack about History, but I am teaching World History. So, I have to learn everything before I can teach it. After a year or so.. I will know it.. and will be even better at teaching it.. The content knowledge is not the most important thing.. Its the desire and ability to become familiar with it before you teach it to your students. Keep in mind that you only have to stay one page ahead of a bunch of 15-year-olds.
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Post by coachorr on Apr 19, 2009 11:07:08 GMT -6
"Keep in mind that you only have to stay one page ahead of a bunch of 15-year-olds.'
That is perfect!
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Post by fbdoc on Apr 19, 2009 11:35:02 GMT -6
Interesting range of responses, but this one by lgoody got me to thinking -
I love football, but I don't know how happy I could be if I was forced to teach material to kids who are not only not interested in the subject (which I understand will happen), but aren't interested in trying to even pass the class, and aren't interested in motivating themselves to succeed in the classroom.
Unless you get hired at an elite private school where you can teach AP to gifted students all day - motivating unmotivated students is what most of us do every single day! It's called TEACHING. Its your job to make the material come alive (certainly you had a teacher like that when you were in high school?) - remember, its not a correspondence class.
And getting your MAT won't get you more respect, but becoming a good teacher will EARN the respect of your students and your peers as well. Teaching isn't easy - its not for everyone. I liken it to the quote from Tony Dungy's new book Uncommon, based on something his college coach once said,
"Success is uncommon, therefore not to be enjoyed by the common man."
That's how I feel about teaching AND coaching. I get to enjoy teaching (and coaching) and the successes I see in the classroom are just as impressive as the ones that occur on the fields. Teaching and Coaching - I think the master teachers and coaches see no difference in the two - they make "like" one better but they approach each in basically the same way. Maybe you should try "coaching" your math/history/science students the same way you coach your football players. I'm sure you have to motivate them to excel from time to time.
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Post by airraider on Apr 19, 2009 11:39:47 GMT -6
Interesting range of responses, but this one by lgoody got me to thinking - I love football, but I don't know how happy I could be if I was forced to teach material to kids who are not only not interested in the subject (which I understand will happen), but aren't interested in trying to even pass the class, and aren't interested in motivating themselves to succeed in the classroom.Unless you get hired at an elite private school where you can teach AP to gifted students all day - motivating unmotivated students is what most of us do every single day! It's called TEACHING. Its your job to make the material come alive (certainly you had a teacher like that when you were in high school?) - remember, its not a correspondence class. And getting your MAT won't get you more respect, but becoming a good teacher will EARN the respect of your students and your peers as well. Teaching isn't easy - its not for everyone. I liken it to the quote from Tony Dungy's new book Uncommon, based on something his college coach once said, "Success is uncommon, therefore not to be enjoyed by the common man."That's how I feel about teaching AND coaching. I get to enjoy teaching (and coaching) and the successes I see in the classroom are just as impressive as the ones that occur on the fields. Teaching and Coaching - I think the master teachers and coaches see no difference in the two - they make "like" one better but they approach each in basically the same way. Maybe you should try "coaching" your math/history/science students the same way you coach your football players. I'm sure you have to motivate them to excel from time to time. To me.. the standardized testing has caused lots of kids not to be interested in passing the classes. In their mind, the passing of the test is such a craps shoot that they dont even bother with the class when they know they could end up not graduating because of the test. kind of a why waste my time trying thing. Kids in those situations really make it hard on a teacher.. makes it even harder on those who can and will pass the test.. because they must try to learn in an environment that: A. has kids who make the learning process harders.. and B. has teachers who may feel hopeless.. and thus sets their standards low.
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Post by indyball on Apr 19, 2009 21:42:03 GMT -6
Well, Indyball....I volunteered at a school that came off a 2-9 record and I did it for a multitude of reasons....not the least of which was that I don't want to ride the coattails of a already great program.....I want to be part of turning it around. Well, not sure why you are "answering" my statement which really didn't pose a question, but congrats. I applaud the idea of deciding to jump into a situation that is in need of turnaround. Of course, factors being what they may, you are either jumping into a turnaround situation or a broken down situation that won't be quickly prepared. There is no magic spell, revitalizing potion or whathaveyou...it takes work, dedication and a will to decide that the staus quo will not be tolerated. Good luck.
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Post by caneman on Apr 19, 2009 22:51:38 GMT -6
"Keep in mind that you only have to stay one page ahead of a bunch of 15-year-olds.' That is perfect! Awesome and true... how many times have you made a lesson plan for the entire day 5 minutes before the first period bell, LOL! Caneman
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Post by casec11 on Apr 20, 2009 8:16:54 GMT -6
Since it is harder and harder to find teaching coaches do you think more schools/teams will change their practice times (later or in the early morning) to try and lure in non-teacher coaches?
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Post by docbrown on Apr 20, 2009 8:24:11 GMT -6
I also have a comprehensive social studies degree, I could teach sociology, geography, history (US and World), government, economics and even Psychology if need be.
Than being said if I was certified in only one type of Math, I would have a job...
So, tsu, it might not be a bad idea to look for another ceritification to supplement your social studies...
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Post by footballguru99 on Apr 20, 2009 8:26:17 GMT -6
try and find former players and groom them in your feeder system and get them ready!!
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Post by coachdawhip on Oct 23, 2009 11:55:31 GMT -6
Since it is harder and harder to find teaching coaches do you think more schools/teams will change their practice times (later or in the early morning) to try and lure in non-teacher coaches? In a lot of states the non-certified teachers have to become certified lay coaches before they can coach. Not a quick and easy process.
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Post by coachguy83 on Oct 23, 2009 16:04:28 GMT -6
I'm going to get this out there. Earlier someone made the comment that local schools were only getting 15 resumes for head coaching jobs and the candidates were too young. I want to know how young is too young? I'm 26 years old and while I have limited experience working with kids at the high school level, I do have 2 years head coaching experience at the youth level. I am a good coach, I have been told by guys that have been doing this a lot longer than me that I am a good coach. I understand that it is hard to find good assistants, and in some cases good head coaches, but could that be because some districts have a stigma against young coaches. I mean experience is the thing you get right after you need it.
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Post by mariner42 on Oct 23, 2009 17:31:54 GMT -6
Honestly, I'm considering trying to pick up a SPED degree somehow to make it easier for us to drag other coaches on campus in more traditional depts. Right now we have 3.5 on-campus coaches (1 interim HC for this semester, 1 full-time PE, 1 1/2 year English, and me subbing more or less every day) and it shows. Our new principal is committed to doing his best to get us more on-campus coaches, but union rules/etc are among our bigger problems.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Oct 23, 2009 21:29:12 GMT -6
I'm in such a crappy spot right now, it's ridiculous. I love coaching where I am, but I'm in a horrible teaching spot. The principal won't let go of thinking I'm just a "coach who doesn't care about teaching" no matter how much time and effort I put in. He's trying to ruin me by giving me "mid-term evaluations" and marking me down for a kid asking "how many points is this assignment worth?" He put down "you need a rubric" on a regular assignment!! Now I'm going to be hard pressed for anyone to hire me with this guy ruining my evaluations because I'm a coach and he hates the fact. I have a masters, I'm certified in 3 areas and will have my professional cert this summer + 6 years of coaching experience... and one bitter "football hating" principal is going to screw up my resume.
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Post by coachorr on Oct 24, 2009 10:21:32 GMT -6
The thing is about head coaching is this. 1) there is a lot more entailed than most would imagine. 2) X and O is only a small portion of the job. 3) You have to be knowledgeable in all facets of the game. 4) You are the one responsible for the team and the coaching staff in all areas of perception ie. media, community, school, parents, administration, custodians, other teachers etc. etc. 5) It is like the presidency, there is no real training that can fully prepare you for the job, so the best training is "on the job" and may be acquired through coaching at a younger grade Frosh or Soph. or may be aquired by coaching at a smaller school. Be careful to not take a hob that no one else wants, as you may be inadvertantly damaging your career. 6) If you have to ask "how young is too young" then you probably are. The older I get, the more I realize what I don't know.
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Post by coachorr on Oct 24, 2009 10:23:23 GMT -6
JDcane, Get out if you can.
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Post by coachinghopeful on Oct 24, 2009 13:23:31 GMT -6
Honestly, I'm considering trying to pick up a SPED degree somehow to make it easier for us to drag other coaches on campus in more traditional depts. Right now we have 3.5 on-campus coaches (1 interim HC for this semester, 1 full-time PE, 1 1/2 year English, and me subbing more or less every day) and it shows. Our new principal is committed to doing his best to get us more on-campus coaches, but union rules/etc are among our bigger problems. SPED!?!? I've thought about that a lot as a way of maximizing the job opportunities available to me, but everyone I know who's taught SPED has hated it. I'm told it's a ton of paperwork and meetings, and SPED parents can be a nightmare. On top of that, admins pretty much do nothing for SPED kids unless legally obligated to do so. Then, especially at the H.S. level, you've got to deal with the kids that'll assault you, etc. They're not all sweet little mentally handicapped kids who want to hug everybody. A friend of mine taught it for 3 years before switching to a 3rd grade classroom at the first opportunity. I've got degrees in English and History and I'm currently working on my M.A.T. to get my license in both. I'm considering doing an add-on endorsement in physics because A) there are NO physics teachers--the state of TN only endorsed 2 people in it last year and B.) science teachers never want to coach. So I'd kill 2 very big birds with one stone there. I still haven't heard from my advisor on just what I need to do to add that on, though.
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Post by formrbcbuc on Oct 27, 2009 8:22:29 GMT -6
One thing i have noticed I how expensive it is to get teacher certification after getting your BA or BS degree. I know that I and some other teacher/coaches in my district are trying to get certified and it is costing us more than our undergrad. For example, Arizona seems to be one of the more expensive states to get certified but one of the easiest in terms of gaining certifiaction. Also, it seems that the different state standards makes it hard to coach/ teach if you move. One coach I knw is getting paid sub pay in the area because he moved from NY to the area. One quick questtion: If I took a good number of special ed courses and even became cert special ed along with SS, could I tell them as part of the interview process for a job that I would be willing and qualified to teach SS to the special ed students? Would that even be a possibility?
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Post by rcole on Oct 27, 2009 9:44:29 GMT -6
There have been a lot of points raised. Good thread. I can tell you that in the south it is not difficult to find teaching jobs. There are usually 10 to 20 openings at every high school every year in my area. I have changed schools several times in my career and never had trouble finding a teaching job. Twice I committed to coaching at a school and coached spring practice without a teaching position for the next year. I had already told my principle I was leaving but didn't have a job. I knew something would work out and both times it did, at the very school I wanted to coach for.
On the whole principles not wanting to hire coaches that teach. I have observed in several of the schools that I have been in the student discipline, or lack thereof was one of the key factors holding the school's performance down. I have seen so many teachers that were almost afraid to confront unacceptable behavior. Coaches are constantly confronting unacceptable behavior, and we are not afraid or uncomfortable doing it, and we have a knack for correcting behavior in a more positive way that may not build resentment. If I was a principle at a struggling school I would hire as many teachers who coached as I could. It would improve the overall school atmosphere and improve academic performance. Great discipline may not make your school a great school, but lack of discipline will certainly destroy one. But, like someone else said, our profession has brought many of the negative stereotypes upon ourselves. We may not have done it ourselves, but we are paying for it.
We have to use a lot of non-teacher coaches. Funny thing is some districts won't allow you to use anyone who is not a district employee. They end up using teachers who really aren't interested in coaching as coaches, many times they have no experience in the sport at all.
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Post by coachinghopeful on Oct 27, 2009 16:59:27 GMT -6
One thing i have noticed I how expensive it is to get teacher certification after getting your BA or BS degree. I know that I and some other teacher/coaches in my district are trying to get certified and it is costing us more than our undergrad. For example, Arizona seems to be one of the more expensive states to get certified but one of the easiest in terms of gaining certifiaction. Also, it seems that the different state standards makes it hard to coach/ teach if you move. One coach I knw is getting paid sub pay in the area because he moved from NY to the area. One quick questtion: If I took a good number of special ed courses and even became cert special ed along with SS, could I tell them as part of the interview process for a job that I would be willing and qualified to teach SS to the special ed students? Would that even be a possibility? Around here they would want you for one or the other. If you were interviewing for a SS job--which are scarce here--you could mention that, sure. But then they'd probably try to push you into special ed since it's much harder to find people for that. Once you're hired in for special ed, it's very hard to convince them to let you transition into another subject if something else opens up because special ed teachers are hard to find. I'm lucky in that I managed to land a GA job at my university (sadly, we don't even have a football program to work with) to cover my tuition. Even then, I needed loans to make ends meet because that $850 stipend from the GA just doesn't stretch very far. Tennessee has some of the highest tuition for public colleges in the nation and this is a 4 semester program. I'm a little worried about student teaching next year because I can't do the GA and student teach at the same time.
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Post by formrbcbuc on Oct 27, 2009 20:54:09 GMT -6
One thing i have noticed I how expensive it is to get teacher certification after getting your BA or BS degree. I know that I and some other teacher/coaches in my district are trying to get certified and it is costing us more than our undergrad. For example, Arizona seems to be one of the more expensive states to get certified but one of the easiest in terms of gaining certifiaction. Also, it seems that the different state standards makes it hard to coach/ teach if you move. One coach I knw is getting paid sub pay in the area because he moved from NY to the area. One quick questtion: If I took a good number of special ed courses and even became cert special ed along with SS, could I tell them as part of the interview process for a job that I would be willing and qualified to teach SS to the special ed students? Would that even be a possibility? Around here they would want you for one or the other. If you were interviewing for a SS job--which are scarce here--you could mention that, sure. But then they'd probably try to push you into special ed since it's much harder to find people for that. Once you're hired in for special ed, it's very hard to convince them to let you transition into another subject if something else opens up because special ed teachers are hard to find. I'm lucky in that I managed to land a GA job at my university (sadly, we don't even have a football program to work with) to cover my tuition. Even then, I needed loans to make ends meet because that $850 stipend from the GA just doesn't stretch very far. Tennessee has some of the highest tuition for public colleges in the nation and this is a 4 semester program. I'm a little worried about student teaching next year because I can't do the GA and student teach at the same time. I feel you about the money crunch, I'm subbing while trying to get my teaching credential. I like working ith special ed students, but my passion is history and government, it would be like making me the girls cross country coach, sure I could do it, but I don't know if it would be the right fit. Right now half my pay check goes to rent needless to say car and other expenses. Oh well just have to weather the storm. Good luck with the schooling man.
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