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Post by davecisar on Sept 30, 2007 7:51:51 GMT -6
Welcome to youth football, it has its own nuances and challenges.
No "B" team player should ever be able to start on an "A" team, that would mean the "A" coach selected poorly or someone is stacking/sandbagging at "B". We do a 3 practice eval, then the "A" coach selects who he wants to. You have to remember, most of the real bad youth players quit, so you never see them at the High School level. Youth ball is a different beast.
There are a handfull of momma boys never had to do anything in their lives kids out there, but I personally have never had more than 1 on a team. While it's possible to turn them around with a combination of encouragement and tough love, you cant salvage them all. I had a kid that cried about wearing a mouthpiece a few years back and another that cried every time they ran a short lap.
Fortunately both had parents that backed my tough love approach, one became a pretty good player/starter, the other by his second year quit crying every practice and year 3 only once. HE was a huge kid and he actually got a few starts and came out of his shell in year 3. His problem: dead dad, shy kid, a bit emotional, some asthma. The cure: We aggreed a positive goal would be not to cry this practice. Told him to take a deep breath, told him nothing we did was aimed at making him look bad, just improve him as a football player etc and asked him to concentrate on the immediate task and goal of not crying. When he woudl come back form his short lap, he would get a knowing nod or whisper "Good job Daniel". If he had a great week, he would get a " Daniel Im proud of you, you are improving".
He was a real wimp from a contact standpoint, but we did find something he could do well, crab block. We stood him out for others to copy as far as crab blocking went and we played the kid at our weakest O-line position and just had him crab block most plays, then praised the holy heck out of it. No chance he would ever play defense. Was shocked and very pleased to see the kid finish 3 full years with us.
Not always a wussification issue, while certainly that has spread its ugly wings accross our society. Certainly frustrating as a coach, I had to specifically pray for this kid and remind myself why I was coaching BEFORE each practice. It was very difficult until he startined seeing some success and then I bacame the kids biggest advocate/.
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Post by brophy on Sept 30, 2007 8:25:42 GMT -6
the former is likely true....since both teams are supposed to be 'even'.
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Post by los on Sept 30, 2007 9:00:45 GMT -6
Daves right about a lot of kids getting out of football or all sports for that matter, before the school coach's ever see them. This "could be" some of the problem Broph, the way they break these big program youth teams down into A,B and C etc.., anyone "not coaching" an "A" youth team is probably coaching a lot of the kids who will never play football on a school team? See, I just saw a little of that with my mixed bag of kids and it was frustrating at times. I can't imagine having to coach an entire team of my, well lets just say, "less than stellar players" It gives me all the more respect for you guys that can take one of these B, C or lower units and make something out of them ;D
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Post by davecisar on Sept 30, 2007 9:33:38 GMT -6
Ive coached all three, select, "B" leftovers and mixed. Expectations are adjusted for each level. I like coaching all 3 levels but get the most satisfaction from coaching the B kids. They cant get by on athleticism so they HAVE to listen and do proper technique, otherwise they fail miserably. Challenging coachng some "A" teams with talent, that can do well without perfect technique. I Like to see weak kids execute at a high level and improve dramaticly from Bad News Bears types to legit football team as season progresses.
Keys for coaching a true "B" team: Teach all the players all a position on offense or defense, but your weakest players may play only one side of the ball in some games. Make sure that position is one the weak player can have some success in without much athletic abilty IE bearcrawler or LE on Single WIng team. Simple and easy to execute blocking rules and be fanatical about the first 2 steps. Infinite numbers of team reps, fit and freeze so the kids always know who to block on offense and their job on defense, Kids will only play aggressively if they are confident in who they are to block and waht their job is on defense. ( hard to do if you only have one coach, train dads to take over to look for certain things at certain positions. Example, have one dad make sure the End at the POA of stepping with his inside foot first at whatever angle you teach) Require fanatical perfection on important things they can control, stance, first 2 steps, proper pad and head placement. Perfect 6 totally integreted plays on offense, with most B level leagues thats all you need. If you are perfect or near it with them you will win most games. Be the best blocking and tackling team in your league, the rest is window dressing. Most of the succcessful HS coaches I talk to want just that, good blocking and tackling and that we didnt run the kid off from football. Select a defense that allows you to defend the most commmon youth plays while allowing for the playing of weaker players. Make sure the kids have fun at every practice, by making your conditioning time a game time scemario, dont waste your limited practice time with lots of mindless cals, agilities and conditioning, my kids havent run a wind sprint in 7 years.
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Post by los on Sept 30, 2007 10:07:15 GMT -6
Good points about the conditioning and time wasting stuff Dave. Our practices were mon-wed about 5:30-7:30 in the evenings when I got off work, most days when I got to the fields the kids would be running, playing some kind of keep away game, "never" sitting around just waiting, and also had tough PE teachers, that made them work during pe classes at school. This made a big difference. Needless to say, we didn't do any warm ups or conditioning at practice and just a minimum warm up before each game. Again, great point about another difference between kid ball and higher level stuff.
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Post by davecisar on Sept 30, 2007 15:45:56 GMT -6
LOS, yep sometimes I wonder if we are too structured.
When I get to practice all the kids are playing kill the man with the ball or have chosen up sides and are playing a 'real" game. Im just glad they like football. LOL. thats part of my mission.
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Post by coachjim on Oct 1, 2007 3:48:03 GMT -6
Great stuff Dave, I might be using Ted's offense, but I think I learn something new, important, and pertinent (sp?) to the age group I have, every single post of yours. You exude experience. If I was another coach in your league, I'd be scared to read them; who the hell wants to know beforehand, that when they play you they are in for a royal ass kicking. Not to mention that your ideas aren't grab-baggy; taking weeks to implement and perfect; a system. They can take the tid bits and improve, which improves your entire league as a whole and I credit you for that, but its your program/system in it's entirety that is what makes it all come together into a winning tradition/franchise. I don't think ya gotta worry about it. Whats the worse that can happen? You face a Dave Cisar clone team? You'd win 6-0, because they can't clone you.
Anyway... disagree with one thing. Wind sprints. While we emulate that philosophy of exersize taking place during the reps of other things... we have all 4 squads stretch out together at the beginning for fifteen minutes (unity) and do wind sprints as a squad exactly at the time that practice is Supposed to end. That works well, or several reasons:
1. Incentives: They owe me ten, every practice. When they try hard and pay attention, I knock off a sprint. Sometimes, they get to 0.
2. More incentive: The parents all want to go home but can't. If they watched practice they know why they have to stay later and do my job for me, with their own kids when they get home, if their own kids' laziness or inattention was the cause. The best part is... it takes place after practice, cutting into their time. Waste mine and i'll waste theirs.
3. Small team like mine that plays both sides... safety and endurance come into play. Also, we jetmo All game. Getting in those extra sprints helps all three categories And gets them working just when they think they can't anymore... one last 4th Qtr push at the goal line like in a game. They play against platooning teams of 40. They have to be tough and have that superior physical/"psyco"logical edge.
4. I get revenge. I'm a positive reinforcer and don't waste practice time on discipline. Everything we do is simplified for reduction of mistakes, like cadence, play calling, offensive system, blocking schemes, etc. They never "run to the fence" and I never shout. But at the end of the day if they are running ten sprints... they all know why. And for me, it's cathartic, because it's payback time.
5. They love them. Becuse they Hate bear crawls! : )
My team is different, I guess I don't disagree, only need to do some things in accordance to what works in our situation. Otherwise, great info Dave. We're no Dave clones but everything we've learned from reading your stuff has helped tremendously. Thanks for your continued contributions to the youth section here and being an invaluable resource; giving some back. I'd wish ya luck in your season but we both know it doen't have to be about luck at all. Not with a great system and wise teacher. Like yourself. But good luck anyway , now you've got it all.
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Post by brophy on Oct 1, 2007 5:45:15 GMT -6
we don't condition and it my personal philosophy not to (our practice plan is on page 1). Keep the practice tempo high, keep them moving, nobody stands around.
However, this week, I think we are going to do some in the middle of practice. We already do cadence get-offs to eliminate those poor concentrators, but we will do some field width gassers and 20 yd ladder relays, not so much for 'conditioning' but more for mental toughness to get these kids to learn how to "nut up" and FINISH something. Against the best team in the city (last week), it showed that the competitiveness doesn't exist.
I appreciate all the insight delivered in the thread.
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Post by coachcalande on Oct 1, 2007 6:48:13 GMT -6
Ive coached all three, select, "B" leftovers and mixed. Expectations are adjusted for each level. I like coaching all 3 levels but get the most satisfaction from coaching the B kids. They cant get by on athleticism so they HAVE to listen and do proper technique, otherwise they fail miserably. Challenging coachng some "A" teams with talent, that can do well without perfect technique. I Like to see weak kids execute at a high level and improve dramaticly from Bad News Bears types to legit football team as season progresses. Keys for coaching a true "B" team: Teach all the players all a position on offense or defense, but your weakest players may play only one side of the ball in some games. Make sure that position is one the weak player can have some success in without much athletic abilty IE bearcrawler or LE on Single WIng team. Simple and easy to execute blocking rules and be fanatical about the first 2 steps. Infinite numbers of team reps, fit and freeze so the kids always know who to block on offense and their job on defense, Kids will only play aggressively if they are confident in who they are to block and waht their job is on defense. ( hard to do if you only have one coach, train dads to take over to look for certain things at certain positions. Example, have one dad make sure the End at the POA of stepping with his inside foot first at whatever angle you teach) Require fanatical perfection on important things they can control, stance, first 2 steps, proper pad and head placement. Perfect 6 totally integreted plays on offense, with most B level leagues thats all you need. If you are perfect or near it with them you will win most games. Be the best blocking and tackling team in your league, the rest is window dressing. Most of the succcessful HS coaches I talk to want just that, good blocking and tackling and that we didnt run the kid off from football. Select a defense that allows you to defend the most commmon youth plays while allowing for the playing of weaker players. Make sure the kids have fun at every practice, by making your conditioning time a game time scemario, dont waste your limited practice time with lots of mindless cals, agilities and conditioning, my kids havent run a wind sprint in 7 years. at the hs level perfecting those six plays is also critical. we are sitting at 4-1 but our fullback still blows his kickouts and iso blocks. our tackles sometimes dont take a good first step when x blocking or down blocking...details, a game of inches...put your hat six inches to the wrong side and a play fails.
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Post by davecisar on Oct 1, 2007 11:21:59 GMT -6
While obviously every individual has his own inner level of competitiveness, we try and build on it by doing almost everything as a competition with losers and winners.
Our blocking and tackling drills are competitive, lose you go to the right group, win go to the left group, at the end, all my best kids are in the far left group or we may even do a drill in king of the hill format, he stays until he loses.
Conditioning? All in competitive game formatt, kids hauling tall dummies in relay races, Towel tug of war games, deer hunter etc etc. Clear winners and losers. You may be able to increase the competitiveness of your team a bit with some of that, we do it from day 1 to last day of practice.
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Post by davecisar on Oct 1, 2007 11:27:09 GMT -6
Coach, I would certainly agree you have to condition more with just 12 kids and running lots of jet motion. Your team size is not the norm, most guys have between 17-30 kids. I have 19 this year on 1 and 18 this year on another, but have had as few as 17 and as many as 36. My team size average is 23-24 over the last 7 years anyways. 12 would be very difficult. I would be in max slowdown from the opening gun. BTW we run jet stuff about 1/3 of the time and I put alternates in to run the motion with 19 kids.
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Post by estore2 on Oct 3, 2007 14:33:41 GMT -6
from going from flag 5-7 yr olds won county championship we conditioned from jumping jacks to 6inches to winds sprints and laps we did it all but from reading your threads this year it make sense i dont do any conditioning alot of b.g.o (3point 2point back pedeling and turn) from diffrent stances and have them finish each with a 10 or 20 yrd sprint. and its working well and im coaching 65lb b team 7-8 yr olds first year contact most of them came from my championship flag team but after practice which is 90min them dudes are still playing around so they have a countless amount of energy but i do want to think you guys for your threads because they deffenently has helped me in my first year of coaching contact football with equipment because our flag was full contact as well you just couldnt tackle but everything else was just like tackle so my kids have made a pretty easy transition
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Post by coachcalande on Oct 4, 2007 6:23:42 GMT -6
Imagine how much better your team would be if you spent those 10-15 minutes on repping plays or teaching tackling and pursuit...when I think of spending all that time each week on stretching or agilities with lil kids...and they dont tackle well....
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Post by davecisar on Oct 4, 2007 7:09:28 GMT -6
Steve,
Agreed, came to that exact conclusion after seeing us play a game in 2002 in 95 degree heat and lots of humidity. Only had 24 kids and they were all drenched after the game.
What were they doing 20 minutes later? Playing full contact, full speed tackle football in an open area as the rest of us watched another game. I had them knock off the full contact, but they played 6 on 6 with nearly non stop running for the next 90 minutes or so. Conditioning is a waste at the little guys level if your practices are crisp and well organized, fast paced.
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Post by coachcalande on Oct 4, 2007 7:19:12 GMT -6
yup, ...and even at the varsity level you cant get enough reps.
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Post by brophy on Oct 5, 2007 20:51:46 GMT -6
AWESOME!!!
I am such a freaking fantastic coach!
We are now 2-2, having won our Saturday game on Friday!** I called our league commissioner / coordinator about a rumor that one of our 12 year old teams would be playing at our field at the same time as our scheduled game. I just wanted to get clarification that it was a typo and we, indeed, are on for tomorrow at 12:45. (now, we have been drilling in for the past two weeks, and it would've been the first game my son started because the guy ahead of him missed practice during the week...so I was a little geeked). "Uh, no....you guys don't play tomorrow", was his response. "No, no, we had the bye last week. We play so-and-so tomorrow at 12:45!", I replied. He went on to explain, " No...you get this week off, too because so-and-so forfeited. They dropped out of the league, so you get a 21-0 win."&*(@#*ING piszed off, I asked, "When did you guys find out about this? Because we have 20 parents and kids ready to show up at noon tomorrow......""I thought I called somebody.....I guess I didn't." DATS JES GOOD COACHEN
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Post by davecisar on Oct 6, 2007 5:24:49 GMT -6
Well at least you called and did not show up with your team. That would have left you with some angry parents.
Youth football has its flaws but golly they have to over communicate if a team folds. Not a common deal, weve only had 1 forfeit in 15 years and it wasnt a fold thing, the other team just didnt want to play us LOL. If I were you I would arrange a scrimmage ASAP 2 weeks is too long not to play a game and to have only played 3 games at this late date may put you behind.
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Post by coachjim on Oct 7, 2007 3:50:51 GMT -6
"Imagine how much better your team would be if you spent those 10-15 minutes on repping plays or teaching tackling and pursuit...when I think of spending all that time each week on stretching or agilities with lil kids...and they dont tackle well.... "Coach, I agree about the first fifteen minutes but its not my call. If I could, I would spend it on reps. We have only allowed 2 TD's in two and a half games and scored 66 points in the last two, though, so... I think we are getting in enough reps, regardless. At some point, you can work on unity and other team builders, once they get everything down. That's where we are at now. Not bad for 12 kids. Last game we had seven sacks and they broke a kids arm in a seven man gang tackle. Not too shabby, for missing 15 minutes of tackling reps. I'm not proud of the arm... but those are the breaks.
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Post by brophy on Oct 14, 2007 11:48:00 GMT -6
well cool.
we are now 3-2 and face a team worse than the one we played yesterday next week. We have qualified for the post-season and have a better record than our "A" team now.
We were able to convince my friend who is the HC of the "A" team to beat up on our guys on the Thursday practice (an actual scripted scout scrimmage) and our kids actually showed up and handled them (instead of wetting their pants)
Good news for this week's game; 1) 4 touchdowns by 4 different players 2) 8 different offensive players touching the ball 3) 2 takeaways 4) there were snacks after the game 5) kids remembered when to come in and out 6) got a chance to work our punt team in 7) my son's first football game ever!!
Bad news 1) 1 stalled drive (bad play calling by me) 2) still have some mental errors to work out 3) my son has to overcome being my son ( 2 carries for 7 yards, 2 blown assignments on offense, 2 penalties for 25 yards)
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Post by los on Oct 14, 2007 16:38:42 GMT -6
Alright!
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Post by brophy on Oct 14, 2007 19:14:41 GMT -6
the best part was the other coach, who was the exact copy of Dwight Yoakam from Slingblade
Who was hammering his kids with gems like, "doggone it! Y'all BETTA block!"...."Get out there and BLOCK SOMEBODY!"...."you guys SUCK!"........."You guys gotta git tough!"...."Jimmy!!! Whut? You don't wanna play no more!?"
I scouted these guys four weeks ago and he was a lot worse then, just non-stop.....I felt bad for the kids, but it was extremely entertaining.
[gvid]1814646840311322779[/gvid][gvid]2692170406818524666[/gvid] [gvid]5212631805031780679[/gvid][gvid]7415212230438708661[/gvid] [gvid]528679826286697404[/gvid]
My son is #30 playing FB & NT
Now, with me counting down the days until the season ends, I have to say that youth football is special, different, important, and all that....but it has about 2% similarity with Varsity & college ball in terms of actual 'football work' performed. I have nothing but respect for those that have the stomach to endure the operations of leagues and programs.
I just don't have the patience or 'tact' to handle glorified-baby-sitting under the guise of sport. Only a dozen times during a practice / game "Coach, can you snap my chin-strap?"
On the sidelines, during a game, "Coach, whats your favorite color?"
Parents wanting their stud to get the most out of football, but can't seem to remember when practice/games are scheduled.
We are trying to warm them up to the idea of jet sweep (which is great in practice) but the wings just seem to mess their pants when running motion. We'll get it by next week (to have for the playoffs).
** Also, #27 (the biggest kid on our team) the 'big crybaby' spoke of before, was on the sideline in the 2nd qtr.....yelling, "I'M GUNNA KILL HIM!" (speaking of the DE across from him) - so I ask him if I heard him correctly....he says, "yeah, I'm gonna pancake that dude!"
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Post by los on Oct 14, 2007 20:19:09 GMT -6
Thats nice you got to coach your son this year. They got ya'll playing in the woods this game, doesn't look like the same manicured turf field and is that a porta-john right behind your bench there, thats gotta be a distraction or a blessing just depending, lol! Good luck with the rest of the season Broph. I'm "not" gonna be suprised if you coach youth ball again next season though, you know the "madness" kinda grows on you. Man, I love the slingblade movie. Just seem to connect with it somehow= real name is "Carl" and work as a mechanic, hmmmm?
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Post by brophy on Oct 14, 2007 20:45:53 GMT -6
Next week back home on the $800k field
then the post-season played in the Independece Bowl
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Post by davecisar on Oct 15, 2007 6:22:51 GMT -6
But did they guy have that monotone gravely voice LOL?
Thats why I run my own program and have a 20 minute speech to all the parents and players before the first practice. If you need babysitting services my rates are $25 per hour. Here is how we are going to run our team, take it or leave it. After week 1 your equipment and adjustments are your responsibility, get it taken care of before you walk on the field or run. Dont have to answer to anyone. I would highly recommend going to some tournaments, the big ones in Daytona are a good start to see how well coached many teams are. Some are pretty amazing.
Not all teams/leagues/programs are created equal.
As to the goof that you coached against,, where does one start LOL? How about if you are going to have you big stud QB run the ball on a designed run, have the two kids lined up in the backfield side my side with him lead block instead of hopping around in place watching the QB run. Huge kid with descent feet, too bad for him. Ive never seen anything like that with the excetion of 5-6 year olds and they usually get over it by game 3-4. NEVER seen a "defense"line up in 2 point "stances" and just stand there on the DL. Wedge city.
The guy had some kids that could play, that's obvious, but obviously is a very poor coach. To "execute" that way late in the season is just terrible. We see poor coaching from time to time, but this guy is setting the bar even lower LOL. Never seen so many players watch a play in my life LOL. We see it from time to time from one kid, but I sit him next to me so he can get a better view. That usually does the trick, that team had 10 kids that were 'spectating" on some plays LOL.
You guys showed some good improvement over the previous post. lots fewer penalties, better tackling and blocking. Better execution on offense. Does your league not have a rule against tlinemen downfield on pass plays LOL? I guess the ref didnt see 3 fat kids 20 yards downfield on the TD. They must be the same guys that did our game 3 weeks ago LOL.
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Post by brophy on Oct 19, 2007 20:51:20 GMT -6
starting center & DE is out with a sickness. Starting FB/SS & wingback/FS will sit the 1st qtr for missing excessive practices (mom has been picking them up a 1/2 hour before practice ends routinely)
We have to win the next two games to make the playoffs (I think) and I really don't care if we do or not.
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Post by los on Oct 20, 2007 4:15:15 GMT -6
Thats very "Disturb-ing" Brophy, tell those kids to get out there and get "Down with the sickness"! Sorry man, the young guys have been brainwashing me with death metal at work Good luck though
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Post by brophy on Oct 20, 2007 6:12:18 GMT -6
"coaching fatigue"? lol
the comment was directed at the parents.
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Post by brophy on Oct 21, 2007 16:17:24 GMT -6
Won via another forfeit (4-2), although our opponent did have 11 players at the start.
We scrimmaged with a running clock and no halftime with the opponent borrowing players from some of their other aged teams that were on campus. Our kids were in an emotional funk after they learned we won via forfeit and to be honest, I wasn't really sure what was going on either (rules).
We started backups and that was the plan from the start, telling the 'superstars' that they weren't starting...(WHY? because you missed half of practice this week...these other guys know your position better than you do now). We used mostly backups for the entire game to get them time before the playoffs. We were missing our starting center/DE/Kicker from the flu.
Which was nice, because the message of "you're not starting if you are skipping out of practices" was delivered quite nicely without any performance consequences.
We played our backups the majority of the game, and got an opportunity to run our no-huddle INDY series with our starters to ensure it would work in a game.[gvid]4289913807660846893[/gvid] video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4289913807660846893no-huddle series
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Post by brophy on Oct 21, 2007 17:41:38 GMT -6
what can you say? I mean this is a city-run league.....(the most competitive league) with the scheduling issues and administrative snafus this year, the directors are looking at jumping to the YMCA league next year. www.ci.shreveport.la.us/dept/spar/Athletics/index.asp#FootballPart of the problem (I think) is that the normal age group (17 teams) has been divided into two divisions [gvid]3091060463545705512[/gvid]
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Post by brophy on Oct 22, 2007 17:41:52 GMT -6
okay, here is an open forum for advice. We are seeded as the 3rd team for post-season. If we lose this last game, we will be the 4th seed. Okay, here are my questions for you vets who know best. (also, it turns out our "A" team has not qualified for the post-season...so the pressure might be on US for the program at our age group)
1) This is theoretically the LAST week of practice for the season (even though we have the playoffs), so I'm thinking.....last 30 minutes or so of practice this week, we loosen up a bit and do the pencil-rolls, bat races, relays, etc to have some fun and be slapdicks. Bad idea? Especially with a "Big Game" coming up this last week?
2) Our ends suck. period. My 'frosted side' REALLY REALLY REALLY (lol) wants to throw some quick RnS roll stuff that I'm used to because we HAVE those guys and a QB who is smart and can throw decently on the move. Just quick drag and flare stuff to get the ball in space and kill man coverage. My wheat side says, just run the stuff we've been running(power,counter,lead), and just try to get good /better at it and sit on the talent we do have. Your thoughts.... [I have really tried to steer clear of running anything different, because I'm really believe in submitting to the DW and the program 'system', although they DO encourage using the spread stuff )
3) We will advance to the post-season and face the BEST of the BEST of the other division. I've seen the two teams (#1 & #2 seeds) play throughout the year, and they are GOOD. I mean, think Dallas Carter good from Friday Night Lights good.....these 10 year olds have goatees and tattooes. Do we TRY to gain an edge by trying to run some stuff to keep them off-balanced (trying to win) or just keep doing what we've been doing, by trying to keep all the kids involved and playing (just having fun).....?
We have practiced jet, jet-wedge, motion-to-power, jet reverse, NO HUDDLE.....because I honestly don't think we can do much to stop either team on defense.
I ask, because the entire season, I haven't really put an emphasis on "WINNING". The emphasis has been on self-sacrifice and hustling - Damn the scoreboard. We get all the kids in and just have fun and stay loose. Should that 'change' now that the stakes are higher? Because in the end, none of it matters anyway
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