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Post by dubber on Dec 7, 2007 14:18:33 GMT -6
I agree with tog........case-in-point: Antwaan Randle El type athlete at QB........
AN interesting case study on changing offenses can be found at Georgia Southern: Chris Hatcher replaces Johnson........like Calande rightfully says, he puts in what he knows.......however, he adjusts it to his personnel.
I mean his QB was a runner first in Johnson's offense, so what does Hatcher do? He adds some zone read, etc. to his Air Raid stuff.
In 4 years, when Hatcher has the talent he recruited in there, they'll be back to 50+ passing attempts a game.
Going back to personnel questions, what will Johnson do at QB? Try to mold one of the pro-style passers GT has, or stick a WR who played QB in high school in there at QB?
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Post by burtledog on Dec 7, 2007 14:21:31 GMT -6
The arguement that option offenses aren't exciting are bull. Back in 00 GaSo played Montana (big passing team/pro style 1 back) for the 1AA title. The network ran a graphic showing that GaSo had more yards per play and many more plays 20 yards + than Montana. If people saw this stuff enough to have a little understanding, they would eat it up. Grace alone, Greg
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Post by coachmacplains on Dec 7, 2007 14:45:26 GMT -6
Seems to me that the main difference, as has been mentioned, is that he'll be able to throw more effectively. Still option football, but now he will have opportunity to get better athletes who can pitch and catch. One wonders about the possibilities if the next Frazier or Randle El attends GT.
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Post by gatorstretch32 on Dec 7, 2007 15:06:24 GMT -6
I believe GT already has a QB that will fit his system, backup Josh Nesbitt.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Dec 7, 2007 15:19:40 GMT -6
Don't get me wrong here--I love watching a Paul Johnson coached offense. Let's look at this from a recruiting standpoint: how many 18-year old studs with NFL aspirations are going to make the choice to go to GT? I know this is not the reason to choose a school but it would not surprise me to see Johnson change. The flexbone is effective and methodical, but probably not "sexy" to a high schooler with blue-chip talent.
The exact same thing was said at Nebraska a few years ago. We know how that ended for them. My view is that there are still a lot of option QBs in HS... chances are GT will get the absolute best (which wouldn't happen at Navy). Perhaps not a "pro style" QB, but really, how many of us gear what we do to having a QB (or any position) who plays there primarily because of his chances to play there at the next level? We've had a lot of QBs go on to play in college- they played FS, SS, WR, TE... even had a D-End.
"Blue chip" is a nice term for sports media types... and it is good coachspeak/scoutspeak... but this year should reiterate what we already know... it's not who has the best 11, it's who has the 11 best. From what I recall, Notre dame AND Nebraska had several top 10 recruiting classes... Kansas and Missouri did not.
My response to a kid who wouldn't want to join our program because it would not highlight him as an individual (which has happened before), is... "That's OK. He's probably not the type of kid (attitude wise) who would work well in our system". Not that any of us would turn down a great athlete... but one with an inflated sense of self (especially one who is unproven at that level) might cause more harm than good.
I don't mean to read more in to your statement coachj... and that is a valid concern, because at that level it often is a program goal to send guys to the NFL, but that doesn't necessarily coincide with (nor does it contradict...) the program goals of: win, make $.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2007 15:57:24 GMT -6
Several of you have hit on my point, but I'll give it anyway. I think keeping the option will help Johnso win a recruiting battle or two. He can now tell that great athlete that he'll get to play QB while other schools will try to make him a RB, SS, or WR.
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Post by coachcalande on Dec 7, 2007 17:07:33 GMT -6
I think there are plenty of guys around who WANT TO play in an option system. If I am a running back who has the option (no pun intended) of going to a run oriented system team or a chuck and duck team...its a no brainer...how about fullbacks? tightends? dying breeds by some systems....but ill bet Johnson gets a good fb and a very good te in his next class...also very good rbs and athletic qbs. ....we will see. also, linemen who want to run block???
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Post by burtledog on Dec 7, 2007 18:37:47 GMT -6
Well, probably not a TE. I have never seen him use one. GB
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Post by utchuckd on Dec 8, 2007 8:40:43 GMT -6
But does he have to get the super blue chip recruits? I don't think so. He's been competitive with upper tier teams at Navy without top 5 or 10 or 20 recruiting classes. I would hazzard a guess that most of the players he gets are unrated. (total guess cause I don't know, but I just don't remember hearing about the great classes Navy pulls in) So I don't think he has to get stud super blue chip recruits, just think about putting a bunch of 2-3 star guys in this offense, with maybe a couple of 4 or 5 star gamebreakers at the right position.
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Post by theprez98 on Dec 8, 2007 9:03:51 GMT -6
But does he have to get the super blue chip recruits? I don't think so. He's been competitive with upper tier teams at Navy without top 5 or 10 or 20 recruiting classes. I would hazzard a guess that most of the players he gets are unrated. (total guess cause I don't know, but I just don't remember hearing about the great classes Navy pulls in) So I don't think he has to get stud super blue chip recruits, just think about putting a bunch of 2-3 star guys in this offense, with maybe a couple of 4 or 5 star gamebreakers at the right position. Navy Recruiting Class Rankings (scout.com) 2008 (t109...so far) 2007 (118...only Army was worse) 2006 (93) 2005 (117...of 117) 2004 (107) 2003 (t110) Surprisingly (to me), Army is almost consistently ranked higher.
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Post by coachdawhip on Dec 8, 2007 9:11:51 GMT -6
WE WILL NOT RUN THE FLEXBONE down here on the flats... I am upset, but we are expected to look similar to WVU. I am happy as a Tech alum, that we have PJ and I will be down there every week, as I am probably going Flexbone next year. But don't expect to see us running it at Tech.
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Post by information on Dec 8, 2007 10:49:53 GMT -6
I agree with tog........case-in-point: Antwaan Randle El type athlete at QB........ AN interesting case study on changing offenses can be found at Georgia Southern: Chris Hatcher replaces Johnson........like Calande rightfully says, he puts in what he knows.......however, he adjusts it to his personnel. I mean his QB was a runner first in Johnson's offense, so what does Hatcher do? He adds some zone read, etc. to his Air Raid stuff. In 4 years, when Hatcher has the talent he recruited in there, they'll be back to 50+ passing attempts a game. Going back to personnel questions, what will Johnson do at QB? Try to mold one of the pro-style passers GT has, or stick a WR who played QB in high school in there at QB? I believe there was somebody between Johnson & Hatcher at GS...I want to say Brian Van Gorder? He went wholesale spread..so Hatcher already had his "spread" qb. I saw a practice of Navy before they played Texas Tech in the Houston Bowl a few years back. The spread option is his baby and he ain't afraid to let you know it. I be surprised if he changed too much a tweak here or there top but the same flexbone system
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Post by coachdawhip on Dec 8, 2007 10:51:43 GMT -6
information, Trust me are ALUMNI will not let him run the flexbone, We will be Gun Spread.
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Post by information on Dec 8, 2007 10:55:31 GMT -6
No wonder GT cannot beat Georgia the ALUMNI run the football program....just kidding!
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Post by coachdawhip on Dec 8, 2007 10:59:16 GMT -6
That might be true, I would love to see the option.
I suspect some IV from the Flexbone, but mostly it will be Gun Option.
We already have that QB on campus (Josh Nesbitt) and Coley White Pat White's brother does hold an offer from us, he was under Gailey being recruited to play DB, but who knows now.
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Post by information on Dec 8, 2007 11:02:00 GMT -6
We run Inside Veer from the gun and have been successful...so either way its good for me to watch!
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Post by swroberts on Dec 8, 2007 11:02:37 GMT -6
Navy has averaged almost 30 points a game the past 3 years when playing ACC oppenents. granted 3 of the games were against Duke but that's still impressive. GA Tech will be a better offensive team period with PJ running things. If they can play defense they will be tough to beat. I am not predicting an ACC championship in year one but by year 2 or 3 they will be knocking on the door.
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Post by phantom on Dec 8, 2007 12:24:33 GMT -6
Don't get me wrong here--I love watching a Paul Johnson coached offense. Let's look at this from a recruiting standpoint: how many 18-year old studs with NFL aspirations are going to make the choice to go to GT? I know this is not the reason to choose a school but it would not surprise me to see Johnson change. The flexbone is effective and methodical, but probably not "sexy" to a high schooler with blue-chip talent. How different is the flex-bone from the Florida spread-gun? Would Tim Tebow be a good triple-option QB? Would it be terribly difficult to marry some spread-gun with flex-bone triple? I don't think so.
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Post by Yash on Dec 8, 2007 14:52:52 GMT -6
Actually the flex bone is quite different than the florida stuff. Florida zone blocks a lot of their stuff where as the flex bone is primarily a man scheme. Flordia the read is the back side of the play where as the flex bone the read is on the play side.
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Post by coachjaz on Dec 9, 2007 0:33:48 GMT -6
If alumni are already calling the shots I dont think PJ would have ever went there in the first place.
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Post by mander on Dec 9, 2007 0:55:19 GMT -6
I would expect more play-action pass... Navy did not have the athleticism in the line to pass block a division 1 D-Lineman for 2 seconds. Navy did not have receivers that could separate from man coverage. Their #1 O-Line technique was the cut block.
With some better athletes, I would expect to see G-tech run the option and really try to punish secondaries that rotate fast to stop the option.
just a guess from a person that thought the AZ Cardinals were a playoff team the last 3 years...
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Post by coachjaz on Dec 9, 2007 1:41:30 GMT -6
I dont know, I just dont think PJ will sell out and ditch the offense after going 99-35 with it as an HC simply because he is in a different conference.
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Post by swroberts on Dec 9, 2007 7:38:00 GMT -6
information, Trust me are ALUMNI will not let him run the flexbone, We will be Gun Spread. They won't let him. What a load of crap, I don't believe it. A coach who listens to the alumni is guaranteed one thing... in 3 years he will be sitting next to them in the stands and will be out of coaching. He didn't need the Tech job or money bad enough. He had 3 job offers and would have 3 more the next year. If he does indeed run spread option it's because that's what he feels they need to run to win period.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2007 9:03:39 GMT -6
If he changes, I think his offense will look a lot like Texas A and M's. It seems to me that a lot of the spread teams in college run the zone read option stuff whereas A and M runs more true midline and inside veer concepts from their gun.
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Post by 50blitz on Dec 9, 2007 10:00:35 GMT -6
One top recruit, a QB from out west just decommitted because of his flexbone offense. You still need players to win. Tim Stowers at Rhode Island ran the same O and just got canned. At the college level its still about the Jimmies and Joes .
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Post by sls on Dec 9, 2007 10:19:39 GMT -6
One top recruit, a QB from out west just decommitted because of his flexbone offense. You still need players to win. Tim Stowers at Rhode Island ran the same O and just got canned. At the college level its still about the Jimmies and Joes . What position did the top recruit play?
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Post by coachdawhip on Dec 9, 2007 10:23:58 GMT -6
information, Trust me are ALUMNI will not let him run the flexbone, We will be Gun Spread. They won't let him. What a load of crap, I don't believe it. A coach who listens to the alumni is guaranteed one thing... in 3 years he will be sitting next to them in the stands and will be out of coaching. He didn't need the Tech job or money bad enough. He had 3 job offers and would have 3 more the next year. If he does indeed run spread option it's because that's what he feels they need to run to win period. Why do you think we fired Gailey? He was a winner. Johnson knows coming in he couldn't run the flexbone. He knows this school is fickle. Remember he left a lot of money on the table from SMU and Duke to come here. He does want to run the spread. But trust me his offensive style wasn't optional
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Post by coachdawhip on Dec 9, 2007 10:25:26 GMT -6
One top recruit, a QB from out west just decommitted because of his flexbone offense. You still need players to win. Tim Stowers at Rhode Island ran the same O and just got canned. At the college level its still about the Jimmies and Joes . What position did the top recruit play? He played QB, but he had informed the staff after Gailey was fired he wasn't coming, this just became public. He wanted to play for Gailey and not Tech, so I think this is obviously best for him.
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Post by wingman on Dec 9, 2007 11:29:48 GMT -6
Tumatilolo is the new Navy coach.
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nydc
Junior Member
"Give yourself to the Darkside"
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Post by nydc on Dec 9, 2007 11:51:35 GMT -6
Has anyone heard what Jon Tenuta is going to do?
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