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Post by coachnick335 on Oct 21, 2024 9:53:39 GMT -6
A friend of mine is currently coaching for a team that is a top team in its area. The head coach's philosophy is we don't stop ever.if we are up 40 we may throw a bomb we may run it . We may go for 2 up 30. On 2 occasions this season the team went for two up over 30 points with under 3 minutes to play. They also threw up bomb with 3 min to play up 36 for a td. The hc may put in his 2s but he may not...thoughts? Is this classless? Disrespectful to the game? Or is it just fine? If the other teams don't like it play defense? Thoughts?
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Post by jstoss24 on Oct 21, 2024 10:02:04 GMT -6
I'm not throwing the ball once the game is decided. I want to get everybody in the game and get out of there. I've been on the flip side and it's one thing for a team to score on us running IZ because we just can't stop it, it's another thing for them to run 4 Verts when they could knee it out.
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Post by blb on Oct 21, 2024 10:11:37 GMT -6
My philosophy was we were going to play the Game Deciders (best players) until the game was decided, then substitute.
To me game was decided when Running Clock or one team was ahead by three scores in 4th Quarter.
Now if I had my 2nd Offense in we were still going to run our Offense - not throwing "bombs" but still giving them a chance to show what they could do-get experience including throwing in passing situations.
I was not interested in running up the score (the other team had to practice on Monday too), just doing what was best for my team.
And I was on both sides of blowouts plenty of times.
Heck a lot of games where we were winning big because we had run our base offense we might have been doing opponents a favor by passing.
Also I was not going to let opponents blitz the hell out of our back-ups (which some teams did) without responding.
Some coaches just would not surrender when they should have, let their 2s get some PT.
Sometimes HS football coaches are their own worst enemies.
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Post by sweep26 on Oct 21, 2024 10:20:30 GMT -6
A friend of mine is currently coaching for a team that is a top team in its area. The head coach's philosophy is we don't stop ever.if we are up 40 we may throw a bomb we may run it . We may go for 2 up 30. On 2 occasions this season the team went for two up over 30 points with under 3 minutes to play. They also threw up bomb with 3 min to play up 36 for a td. The hc may put in his 2s but he may not...thoughts? Is this classless? Disrespectful to the game? Or is it just fine? If the other teams don't like it play defense? Thoughts? For head coaches with the "we don't stop ever philosophy" regardless of the score: ... what goes around comes around!!
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Post by 44special on Oct 21, 2024 10:23:58 GMT -6
i was never concerned with what your 2's ran; run, throw, whatever, unless it was trick plays. i think 2's need to run and get experience in the offense, whatever that may entail. so if they threw the ball, that was fine. i don't think it does them any good if they just run dive 3 plays and punt.
when it starts getting over 50, ok, slow down some.
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Post by blb on Oct 21, 2024 10:28:20 GMT -6
A friend of mine is currently coaching for a team that is a top team in its area. The head coach's philosophy is we don't stop ever.if we are up 40 we may throw a bomb we may run it . We may go for 2 up 30. On 2 occasions this season the team went for two up over 30 points with under 3 minutes to play. They also threw up bomb with 3 min to play up 36 for a td. The hc may put in his 2s but he may not...thoughts? Is this classless? Disrespectful to the game? Or is it just fine? If the other teams don't like it play defense? Thoughts? For head coaches with the "we don't stop ever philosophy" regardless of the score: ... what goes around comes around!! Third game at my first head coaching job we played a team that was one of the league's "powers." Year before they had beaten a team 75-10 (back when scoring 75 points was about a month's worth). They beat us 44-8 and didn't sub, were still throwing late. Two years later we beat them 54-6. Last TD was scored by our 2nd-string RB on 80-yard run up the middle (Counter Dive). I called three passes. One incompletion, one sack, one negated by a penalty.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 21, 2024 10:36:30 GMT -6
My philosophy was we were going to play the Game Deciders (best players) until the game was decided, then substitute. To me game was decided when Running Clock or one team was ahead by three scores in 4th Quarter. Now if I had my 2nd Offense in we were still going to run our Offense - not throwing "bombs" but still giving them a chance to show what they could do-get experience including throwing in passing situations. I was not interested in running up the score (the other team had to practice on Monday too), just doing what was best for my team. And I was on both sides of blowouts plenty of times. Heck a lot of games where we were winning big because we had run our base offense we might have been doing opponents a favor by passing. Also I was not going to let opponents blitz the hell out of our back-ups (which some teams did) without responding. Some coaches just would not surrender when they should have, let their 2s get some PT. Sometimes HS football coaches are their own worst enemies. This
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Post by bignose on Oct 21, 2024 11:02:56 GMT -6
In my much younger days I was watching a JV game, waiting for a Varsity game to start afterwards. Late in the 4th quarter, after going up by 48, the JV coach, who had a reputation for being a p***k, ran an onside kick, recovered the ball, and with under 2 minutes left started throwing bombs into the end zone.
The losing coach refused to have his kids shake hands after the game (according to him, to prevent a fight) and he was the one who got written up for displaying poor sportsmanship by the School System.
Go figure......
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Post by MICoach on Oct 21, 2024 11:26:06 GMT -6
Sometimes HS football coaches are their own worst enemies. We had a game get out of hand earlier this year because the opposing head coach went for it on fourth down multiple times, when already in a running clock, inside their own 35. They also kicked onside twice unsuccessfully and fumbled trying to run a trick play down 4 scores. None of us felt great about how high our score got but we had defensive subs running offense and still scoring... On the other side of things...I have more than a couple times seen coaches throw a deep ball as an FU to an opposing coach who is blitzing against the subs or kicking onside down six scores.
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Post by blb on Oct 21, 2024 11:35:56 GMT -6
If you are a back-up player (2nd string or lower) and you know you're not going to get to play because your HC is not going to substitute regardless of score - how hard you going to practice?
Or when you're team is getting blown out, coach won't put you in as if he's afraid you could still lose the game?
If you're an underclassman who goes through all the Off-Season, Pre-Season stuff just to sit the bench all season, are you even going to play next year?
From a coaching perspective do you want kids the next year with little to no Varsity playing experience because you were trying to build up your stats?
A senior QB who has never thrown a pass in a Varsity game?
That's what I meant by "Sometimes HS football coaches are their own worst enemies."
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Post by blb on Oct 21, 2024 11:48:33 GMT -6
Sometimes HS football coaches are their own worst enemies. We had a game get out of hand earlier this year because the opposing head coach went for it on fourth down multiple times, when already in a running clock, inside their own 35. They also kicked onside twice unsuccessfully and fumbled trying to run a trick play down 4 scores. None of us felt great about how high our score got but we had defensive subs running offense and still scoring... On the other side of things...I have more than a couple times seen coaches throw a deep ball as an FU to an opposing coach who is blitzing against the subs or kicking onside down six scores. Once was beating a team with running clock when they scored with their starting offense-QB throwing passes against our 2nd defense with about a minute left to make it 49-20. They tried Onside Kick - guess maybe they figured they had a 30-point play they could run. Our End fielded the bouncing ball chest-high (Turf field) and then got hit by couple of their kids who drove him backward and down, breaking his leg. Coaching Malpractice in my opinion.
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Post by cwaltsmith on Oct 21, 2024 12:19:41 GMT -6
It's wrong... I have been on both ends... I was young once and beat a team 70 to 0 ... it was 50 to 0 at half... I had said I am gonna play my guys till the half regardless... (I WAS WRONG!)... I had a freshman that scored 3 times in the 2nd half that I didn't really know was that good (ended up being a 2 time Mr. football winner. But I should have called it off sooner.
I agree sub and let those subs play until it gets real bad .. then just milk clock run ball and get out without being hurt... no one benefits from running it up
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Post by blb on Oct 21, 2024 12:45:41 GMT -6
no one benefits from running it up This.
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 21, 2024 13:07:39 GMT -6
I always felt everything was fair game until the clock started running. Once we got the clock running, all starters were out and JV finished the game.
I always hated the strokes who felt the need to onside against our JV when we'd been sitting the varsity for the entire 3rd and 4th quarters. Douche bags.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 21, 2024 13:13:39 GMT -6
I don't care what an opposing coach does as long as they have their depth in when the game is decided. It's a new game once it's 2s versus 2s. Now, if we're up big, have our backups in and you don't, I can't guarantee that sportsmanship will factor into the play calling. We're not going to have our young guys getting beat on by the opposing varsity so a coach can save face.
We were up by 40+ on a team at half once and they not only left their starters in but also brought them on goofy pressures. Our younger guys scored a couple of times off of screens and PA and that's what it took for the opposing coach to pull his starters. He lost his chit and had to be escorted off of the field as he wanted to throw some punches at me.
Funny, he was p-ssed as hell over the scoreboard but couldn't have cared less about the health of our younger players.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Oct 21, 2024 13:24:39 GMT -6
When I've been on the wrong side of a blowout I've never cared about what the other team does. Had a team that was a "rival" run a trick play on us one time when we were down by 30+ in the fourth. I was already as dejected and embarrassed by our performance as I could be, one more trick play wasn't going to make me feel worse than I already did haha.
When we're up we try to get every kid into the game for at least a few plays and just call our base stuff.
I'm not the playcaller but our guy will run a lot of WR screens and Jet Sweeps to try to get backup WRs some touches. Occasionally we get somebody yelling about how we shouldn't be passing in those situations but it's pretty rare.
In general though I don't really care too much about what the other coaches do.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Oct 21, 2024 14:04:48 GMT -6
Sometimes HS football coaches are their own worst enemies. We had a game get out of hand earlier this year because the opposing head coach went for it on fourth down multiple times, when already in a running clock, inside their own 35. They also kicked onside twice unsuccessfully and fumbled trying to run a trick play down 4 scores. None of us felt great about how high our score got but we had defensive subs running offense and still scoring... On the other side of things...I have more than a couple times seen coaches throw a deep ball as an FU to an opposing coach who is blitzing against the subs or kicking onside down six scores. I coached for a guy that said if they onside kick, keep throwing on a running clock, blitz the house we have to keep playing to kick their butt. If they clearly put up the white flag (punt, run the ball, don't onside kick) so can you
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Post by blb on Oct 21, 2024 14:20:41 GMT -6
We had a game get out of hand earlier this year because the opposing head coach went for it on fourth down multiple times, when already in a running clock, inside their own 35. They also kicked onside twice unsuccessfully and fumbled trying to run a trick play down 4 scores. None of us felt great about how high our score got but we had defensive subs running offense and still scoring... On the other side of things...I have more than a couple times seen coaches throw a deep ball as an FU to an opposing coach who is blitzing against the subs or kicking onside down six scores. I coached for a guy that said if they onside kick, keep throwing on a running clock, blitz the house we have to keep playing to kick their butt. If they clearly put up the white flag (punt, run the ball, don't onside kick) so can you I understand that POV and not saying it's wrong. Problem is if you play azzholes like that your backups may never get PT.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Oct 21, 2024 14:21:39 GMT -6
I guess the OP was a couple of different questions though. When I watch film and see one team obviously pile on another, I do think that's chicken $hit. But if their backups are the ones scoring, causing turnovers, etc. to me that's just the way the game goes sometimes.
Sometimes "calling off the dogs" takes both parties though. We played a game last week where the opposing offense played their starters every snap and we played over 30 different guys on defense. We had a nice lead early and started subbing before half time. If you can imagine based on our subbing pattern, that lead shrank a bit in the second half and they were onside kicking after every score.
It had all the makings of us tacking on a score and being the a-holes in some people's eyes, but thankfully we were able to bleed the clock out and get it over without having to score an "unnecessary" TD.
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 21, 2024 16:56:02 GMT -6
I only had one instance I was pissed off about taking a beating. At my last stop as a HC where I took over a team that my super told me if I won a game with, he'd immediately move to get me in the HOF.
Anyway, we're playing a local Catholic team with a HOF coach who would go on to win a state championship with this squad. We go down big and they get the clock running in the 3rd. We kept our starters in, because for that game we were starting 7 fr/sophs. We score on a kick return or something stupid on their backups and the Sr who scored it barked a little because the kid was a fatherless douche who I pulled aside and talked to about having class.
HOFer puts his starters back in (most notably their RB who got a scholarship to Kansas State) and puts 70 on us.
I thought that was bush league BS and was none too happy about that.
That said, my motto was "Take your beating like a man". Be it you taking or giving the beating.
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Post by Defcord on Oct 21, 2024 16:58:25 GMT -6
Do what’s best for your team but when the losing teams only stud blitzes the edge every play and blows out your qbs knee have a good way to explain that to the kids parents.
I heard James Franklin answer the question once and say “I take guys out at point if they got injured and Id regret it.”
I won’t run it up but I also won’t complain as long as the other team is playing clean and within the rules. It’s just a game at the end of the day.
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Post by carookie on Oct 21, 2024 17:34:46 GMT -6
Sometimes, the score just runs itself up. Had a game a few years back, we were up 45-0 near the end of the 2nd qtr- get a running clock. They come out and throw a pick 6, go into half up 59-0. Come out and we house the opening KO, they throw another pick 6, then our JV QB hits an out route that turns into a TD. Its 80-0 just by chance.
What do you do, tell a frosh DB not to take his one chance to score a varsity TD? Not saying you run double reverse, or you keep your starers in too long (though they earned the right to play some). But sometimes teams are just better, and its not really fair to just have your backups go in to take a knee.
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Post by agap on Oct 21, 2024 17:54:31 GMT -6
I like keeping starters in for sure through the 1st half unless it’s really out of control. I also like having the starters out there to start the 2nd half so they’re used to it in case you’re winning big every week. Then start subbing.
I’ve also coached teams that were down by 50+ who wanted to block punts with starters, onside kicks, run trick plays, etc. I don’t like that either.
None of this matters in the state championship. I had a coach who won multiple titles tell me once that anything goes in the state title game. If you’re up by 40+ and want to run a trick play, go for it because you’re playing for a state title. I’ve never been there myself but I like his argument. Maybe this would change if I had one ring and was up big in another one.
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Post by Down 'n Out on Oct 21, 2024 20:02:05 GMT -6
Were all(for the most part) coaching kids, it's bush league imo.
I never stop running our stuff but once the game has been decided I sub liberally in the backfield on Offense and keep the runs between the tackles as much as possible, become pretty predictable, and all passes short to intermediate. Now I did have a season where we were incrediblylow on numbers and our kickoff game was all variations of onside kicks, we didnt kick deep because half of the kids out there couldnt cover, we never stopped onside kicking regardless of the score.
Our kids need reps, so do theirs(against more equitable competition). So from a learning football perspective blowing them away doesn't make sense. This all has to be about more than just a game too, there's lessons to be learned, and if it's not more than just a game then it's not worth the time or effort imo.
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mc140
Sophomore Member
Posts: 220
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Post by mc140 on Oct 21, 2024 20:50:36 GMT -6
A friend of mine is currently coaching for a team that is a top team in its area. The head coach's philosophy is we don't stop ever.if we are up 40 we may throw a bomb we may run it . We may go for 2 up 30. On 2 occasions this season the team went for two up over 30 points with under 3 minutes to play. They also threw up bomb with 3 min to play up 36 for a td. The hc may put in his 2s but he may not...thoughts? Is this classless? Disrespectful to the game? Or is it just fine? If the other teams don't like it play defense? Thoughts?
One of my first years coaching 20 years ago a team in our conference was clocking us. Then on their final TD pass their starting QB got hit and was knocked out for the year. Crippled their season, but they beat us by 50.
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Post by realdawg on Oct 22, 2024 3:03:43 GMT -6
It is free game until half time or until the clock starts running. I think you owe it to your kids who come practice every day but do not start or get to play to get them in the game at that point.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Oct 22, 2024 5:03:32 GMT -6
I coached for a guy that said if they onside kick, keep throwing on a running clock, blitz the house we have to keep playing to kick their butt. If they clearly put up the white flag (punt, run the ball, don't onside kick) so can you I understand that POV and not saying it's wrong. Problem is if you play azzholes like that your backups may never get PT. Should've added in: our drop off from 1 to 2 was MASSIVE and could've been really bad for a #2 QB when those jack wagons are sending the house vs our 2's OL (normal team's 3's)
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Post by theyoungballcoach on Oct 22, 2024 6:30:38 GMT -6
I think there are a couple things to keep in mind. I agree running it up means you're an a-hole, but it also means you're an idiot. Football is a physical game and god only made so many big humans. It's all fun and games until you're up 3 scores and someone important twists their ankle.
I also think it's important to let the young guys get game reps, it's so different from practice.
3rd, I will run the clock out when the game is decided, but if you play man and put too many for us to block in the box, I'm throwing it, period. I'm not running my backup RB into your unblocked starting FS. Play normal defense, I'll run it. But if we're in 11 personnel, and you go cov 0 8 man box when that's not a part of who you are on defense, my twos are throwing it. We'll go three and out on rub slants and deep shots. I've lived by this and been called an AHole, but I don't think I'm the AHole there. I'm not letting you blast my RB unblocked through the bgap so you can feel better about the rushing yards on the stat sheet.
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Post by planck on Oct 22, 2024 6:43:46 GMT -6
It is free game until half time or until the clock starts running. I think you owe it to your kids who come practice every day but do not start or get to play to get them in the game at that point. Basically my feelings. I also think that when you sub, just run your offense. We run a lot of RPOs, screens, etc. If a team is just stuffing the box, well run play action the same way we would in a competitive game. Kids need reps and to learn our O. We're not going to run double moves or deep choice or anything. But the "answer" plays all stay in.
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Post by Down 'n Out on Oct 22, 2024 7:55:55 GMT -6
3rd, I will run the clock out when the game is decided, but if you play man and put too many for us to block in the box, I'm throwing it, period. I'm not running my backup RB into your unblocked starting FS. Thats actually a good point. A few seasons ago we were up big, JV team goes in while the opponent leaves their starters in. HC tells me "lets just run the clock and get out of here", well they play their Safeties 4 yds off the ball and blitz their LBs. Their Seniors vs my Freshmen, ok fine. So we stop running off tackle, throw a pass on them for a TD and run Buck repeatedly for a long drive and eventually punch it in with a Freshman FB who is really our 3rd Guard. Score was way out of hand but they asked for it. Maybe im a jackass?
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