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Post by senatorblutarsky on Feb 12, 2024 15:21:01 GMT -6
In all my years we haven’t been in many OT games; we’ve been in 4 total and are 3-1. One reason we haven’t been in many OT games is that we will go for the win (TD > FG or 2 >1) almost all the time, so that line of thinking influences my response.
In H.S. and college, I don’t think many would argue to have the ball first.
When we’ve had the ball first and scored we have always gone for 2. If we have the ball second, regardless of what they did we go for two (unless a kick will win it AND we have a kicker… that happened once and we missed the kick to win and lost in the 2nd OT).
Given all that, I can see an argument for taking the ball first in the NFL, but (personal opinion here) I would do everything slightly beyond reasonable to get 8 points out of the deal.
As far as the 49ers decision, I don’t have a problem with them taking the ball first, and I don’t have a problem with kicking the FG (4th & 4 was it?). My thinking is go for it, but I understand their reasoning. KC has scored one TD all game.
The potential for an extra possession carries some weight here.
And (for the record) I didn’t have a problem with Seattle throwing on the goal line vs. NE. (I did not like the play/formation; didn’t stress the LB enough to me… but I’m not a big “tight bunch passing guy” either, so I’ll take it they knew what they wanted…Butler just made a great play). They had to burn a TO on the long reception, leaving them with one left. If you run and get stopped- now you “have to” throw (or take your chances on one play). If you throw and it is incomplete, you have more options on the next down.
Unfortunately, if you throw an interception, people will bring that up for the next 50 years whenever there is a controversial decision made in a super bowl. Unless someone takes the ball first and kicks a field goal… then you might get replaced.
All I know is I am one hell of a lot better coach from the stands or from my living room than I am on the sideline.
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Post by blb on Feb 12, 2024 15:44:57 GMT -6
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Post by silkyice on Feb 12, 2024 16:09:39 GMT -6
I think a scenario where I would defer is if I had already decided that if the other team scores first, then I'm going to go for 2 and the win after my TD. Similar to what I was saying earlier. Surprise onside after the FG. Would have been the biggest ballsy move of all time. |
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Post by silkyice on Feb 12, 2024 16:18:34 GMT -6
In all my years we haven’t been in many OT games; we’ve been in 4 total and are 3-1. One reason we haven’t been in many OT games is that we will go for the win (TD > FG or 2 >1) almost all the time, so that line of thinking influences my response. In H.S. and college, I don’t think many would argue to have the ball first. When we’ve had the ball first and scored we have always gone for 2. If we have the ball second, regardless of what they did we go for two (unless a kick will win it AND we have a kicker… that happened once and we missed the kick to win and lost in the 2nd OT). Given all that, I can see an argument for taking the ball first in the NFL, but (personal opinion here) I would do everything slightly beyond reasonable to get 8 points out of the deal. As far as the 49ers decision, I don’t have a problem with them taking the ball first, and I don’t have a problem with kicking the FG (4th & 4 was it?). My thinking is go for it, but I understand their reasoning. KC has scored one TD all game. The potential for an extra possession carries some weight here. And (for the record) I didn’t have a problem with Seattle throwing on the goal line vs. NE. (I did not like the play/formation; didn’t stress the LB enough to me… but I’m not a big “tight bunch passing guy” either, so I’ll take it they knew what they wanted…Butler just made a great play). They had to burn a TO on the long reception, leaving them with one left. If you run and get stopped- now you “have to” throw (or take your chances on one play). If you throw and it is incomplete, you have more options on the next down. Unfortunately, if you throw an interception, people will bring that up for the next 50 years whenever there is a controversial decision made in a super bowl. Unless someone takes the ball first and kicks a field goal… then you might get replaced. All I know is I am one hell of a lot better coach from the stands or from my living room than I am on the sideline. I like what you said, but do want to discuss a couple of points. Trying to get 8 points out of the first possession doesn't make sense. It means you scored a TD. Why go for 2 there? If you don't get it, you have forced them to score a TD knowing they have to have TD and when they do score, they win with a kick. But if you kick, you are reasonably assured that you should get one more possession and on that possession all you have to do is kick a FG to win. On the Seahawks, you can run BECAUSE you have a timeout. The call to make was a bootleg. You now can throw it away, or score by run or pass, and Lynch had torched them so they would have to sell out on the run knowing that you can run because you have a timeout. Now that is a little 20/20 hindsight. But throwing like they did was not 20/20 hindsight. That was a BAD call. That is how you lose. Agree it was a great play by the DB. But they gave them that opportunity. Run or boot. Boot is actually the best call. Then you still have your timeout for 3rd. Like Tubby Raymond said, "You don't have to make the perfect call, just avoid the bad play call." |
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Feb 12, 2024 16:55:02 GMT -6
Trying to get 8 points out of the first possession doesn't make sense. It means you scored a TD. Why go for 2 there? On the Seahawks, you can run BECAUSE you have a timeout. The call to make was a bootleg. You now can throw it away, or score by run or pass, and Lynch had torched them so they would have to sell out on the run knowing that you can run because you have a timeout. Now that is a little 20/20 hindsight. But throwing like they did was not 20/20 hindsight. That was a BAD call. That is how you lose. Agree it was a great play by the DB. But they gave them that opportunity. Run or boot. Boot is actually the best call. Then you still have your timeout for 3rd. Like Tubby Raymond said, "You don't have to make the perfect call, just avoid the bad play call." 1. RE: the "8 points", I did say that my philosophy (as a HS, not NFL) coach influenced my response. We go for 2 first because I do not want to lose because the other coach had more guts/balls/nerve (possibly stubbornness) than I do. If we are up 8, we can't lose on their possession. I get what you are saying though and at that level, almost no one would go for 2 there.
I can't remember what college coach it was, but one in the last 5 years or so said if he had a 1 point lead in the 4th qr. and scored a TD, he would always go for 2 (to go up 9 or 7) because most teams wouldn't go for 2 to beat you late... and if you made it, you are up by two scores. We've done that since I can remember (again... depends on having a reliable kicker).
Again, my reasoning doesn't necessarily translate to the NFL way of thinking. However, for teams going 2nd in a "even series but then sudden death OT", I know there are a few guys in the NFL who would more than flirt with the idea of going for 2 and the win... I guess I don't want to lose to the crazy guy; I want to be as crazy as he is.
2. RE: Boot (or rollout with an option to run if it is there/throw it away if not) I COMPLETELY agree. I remember thinking that at the time. I didn't like the play call, but the decision to call a passing play (like a boot) was not a bad one (coming from a guy who went all of October 2022 without having his offense attempt a pass).
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Post by silkyice on Feb 12, 2024 18:40:09 GMT -6
www.foxnews.com/sports/49ers-players-admit-unaware-overtime-rules-super-bowl-lviii-surpriseThis blows my mind. 49er players saying that they didn't know the rules and the Chiefs' player that caught the Super Bowl winning TD didn't even know that won the game. I get they all have second jobs as plumbers and all, but you would think someone would explain new rules and situations with them at some point during the 18 week season. I get there are restrictions on how much they football they can do in the NFL like 8 hour days max and having Tuesday off and all, but surely at some point they could go over this stuff. Maybe like during a 5 minute water break or something like that. Asking a lot, I know, I know.
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OT Choice
Feb 12, 2024 18:50:17 GMT -6
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 12, 2024 18:50:17 GMT -6
www.foxnews.com/sports/49ers-players-admit-unaware-overtime-rules-super-bowl-lviii-surpriseThis blows my mind. 49er players saying that they didn't know the rules and the Chiefs' player that caught the Super Bowl winning TD didn't even know that won the game. I get they all have second jobs as plumbers and all, but you would think someone would explain new rules and situations with them at some point during the 18 week season. I get there are restrictions on how much they football they can do in the NFL like 8 hour days max and having Tuesday off and all, but surely at some point they could go over this stuff. Maybe like during a 5 minute water break or something like that. Asking a lot, I know, I know. Eh- if those guys don’t have input into the situation does it truly matter. Kind of surprised yes, but does it realky impact the game? I am much more surprised and shocked by the amount of HS coaches that post here on Huey that don’t know rules such as the scrimmage kick rule (aka “tee punt” ) I have seen lots of reporters and talkibg heads try to frame this as “look at any reid being such a great coach”. Eh maybe. But in 2008 his starting qb didn’t know the regular season overtime rules |
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lws55
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Post by lws55 on Feb 14, 2024 14:25:00 GMT -6
www.foxnews.com/sports/49ers-players-admit-unaware-overtime-rules-super-bowl-lviii-surpriseThis blows my mind. 49er players saying that they didn't know the rules and the Chiefs' player that caught the Super Bowl winning TD didn't even know that won the game. I get they all have second jobs as plumbers and all, but you would think someone would explain new rules and situations with them at some point during the 18 week season. I get there are restrictions on how much they football they can do in the NFL like 8 hour days max and having Tuesday off and all, but surely at some point they could go over this stuff. Maybe like during a 5 minute water break or something like that. Asking a lot, I know, I know. Eh- if those guys don’t have input into the situation does it truly matter. Kind of surprised yes, but does it realky impact the game? I am much more surprised and shocked by the amount of HS coaches that post here on Huey that don’t know rules such as the scrimmage kick rule (aka “tee punt” ) I have seen lots of reporters and talkibg heads try to frame this as “look at any reid being such a great coach”. Eh maybe. But in 2008 his starting qb didn’t know the regular season overtime rules Do you think that maybe Andy Reid said "You know what in 2008 my starting qb didn’t know the regular season overtime rules, so I am going to make sure that all my teams from now on know the rules" |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 14, 2024 14:39:03 GMT -6
Eh- if those guys don’t have input into the situation does it truly matter. Kind of surprised yes, but does it realky impact the game? I am much more surprised and shocked by the amount of HS coaches that post here on Huey that don’t know rules such as the scrimmage kick rule (aka “tee punt” ) I have seen lots of reporters and talkibg heads try to frame this as “look at any reid being such a great coach”. Eh maybe. But in 2008 his starting qb didn’t know the regular season overtime rules Do you think that maybe Andy Reid said "You know what in 2008 my starting qb didn’t know the regular season overtime rules, so I am going to make sure that all my teams from now on know the rules" I think that is very likely what happened. |
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Post by cqmiller on Feb 14, 2024 14:44:04 GMT -6
In HS and college... always go defense first. Knowing how many points you need is an advantage. You know you are in 4-down scenarios and things like that.
NFL rate is higher than 50% probability for whoever has ball 1st winning. It is high enough that people think the OT rules should change because it gives unfair advantage to the team that has the ball 1st.
NFL I take the ball with all the possible outcomes... College & HS I still play Defense 1st.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 14, 2024 14:51:06 GMT -6
In HS and college... always go defense first. Knowing how many points you need is an advantage. You know you are in 4-down scenarios and things like that. NFL rate is higher than 50% probability for whoever has ball 1st winning. It is high enough that people think the OT rules should change because it gives unfair advantage to the team that has the ball 1st. NFL I take the ball with all the possible outcomes... College & HS I still play Defense 1st. Is that the NFL rate for playoff rules or for regular season rules? |
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Post by cqmiller on Feb 14, 2024 15:11:05 GMT -6
Not enough data to know how it shakes out... I would need to know score-rates from different locations on the field.
In HS, both teams get the ball at the 10 yard line, so the scoring % is VERY high for both. If you kick a field-goal, you have to weigh your probability of making the field-goal vs. the probability the other team scores a TD on 1st and Goal. This is why I think defense 1st gives you an advantage. You KNOW whether a FG wins it or not, which makes decisions easier to manage.
In college, both teams get the ball at the 25 yard line, so the scoring % is still very high, but the TD% is lower. Now your FG probability has to be weighed by their FG probability and their TD probability. Again, being on defense makes it easy to decide whether to kick FG or go on 4th down if you stop the other team 1st.
With the NFL rule, I look at it as pretty much the college rule, but with much LOWER probability of scoring a TD. 99% of all kicks are touchbacks, so you really have to go 30 yards on offense to have a realistic shot at kicking a FG, and a full 75 to score a TD. Really, they should just turn off the clock in the playoff OT system because the clock is not a factor at all. Both teams will get 1 possession in the 15 minutes, so it is irrelevant. Does anyone know the % of drives starting at the 25 that result in successful FGs and successful TDs? If I had that data, we could figure out which one is the higher advantage. It does make me think I'd MAYBE lean toward kicking first because now even if you give up a TD, you can still go down the field and score and decide to go for 2.
Don't think there is enough data with it only being a year old and their first reaction is what they have studied with the older OT rules. My guess is that it probably bumps the win % back to advantage to be on Defense first, but it isn't going to be as high as the college or high school % because of the distance needed to score.
If anyone has those basic stats, we can do some of the probabilities and figure it out within a decent accuracy. My guess it would maybe shift from Team receiving over 50 by I think it was 3% last I saw, to defense by 1%.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 14, 2024 15:27:16 GMT -6
Not enough data to know how it shakes out... I would need to know score-rates from different locations on the field. In HS, both teams get the ball at the 10 yard line, so the scoring % is VERY high for both. If you kick a field-goal, you have to weigh your probability of making the field-goal vs. the probability the other team scores a TD on 1st and Goal. This is why I think defense 1st gives you an advantage. You KNOW whether a FG wins it or not, which makes decisions easier to manage. In college, both teams get the ball at the 25 yard line, so the scoring % is still very high, but the TD% is lower. Now your FG probability has to be weighed by their FG probability and their TD probability. Again, being on defense makes it easy to decide whether to kick FG or go on 4th down if you stop the other team 1st. With the NFL rule, I look at it as pretty much the college rule, but with much LOWER probability of scoring a TD. 99% of all kicks are touchbacks, so you really have to go 30 yards on offense to have a realistic shot at kicking a FG, and a full 75 to score a TD. Really, they should just turn off the clock in the playoff OT system because the clock is not a factor at all. Both teams will get 1 possession in the 15 minutes, so it is irrelevant. Does anyone know the % of drives starting at the 25 that result in successful FGs and successful TDs? If I had that data, we could figure out which one is the higher advantage. It does make me think I'd MAYBE lean toward kicking first because now even if you give up a TD, you can still go down the field and score and decide to go for 2. Don't think there is enough data with it only being a year old and their first reaction is what they have studied with the older OT rules. My guess is that it probably bumps the win % back to advantage to be on Defense first, but it isn't going to be as high as the college or high school % because of the distance needed to score. If anyone has those basic stats, we can do some of the probabilities and figure it out within a decent accuracy. My guess it would maybe shift from Team receiving over 50 by I think it was 3% last I saw, to defense by 1%. Yes, I mentioned the points you make in your first two paragraphs earlier in the this thread, and those things, combined with a guarantee of equal possessions makes taking the ball 2nd a pretty solid tactical advantage. But I don't think what I highlighted above is accurate, because unlike the HS and college rule, after the first 2 possessions, there is no more guarantee of possession. In HS and College, each team is guaranteed an equal amount of possessions in the overtime period. Not so in NFL postseason- which I think adds another level of complexity if one is strictly trying to calculate "the analytics". There is going to be a mathematical component to being the team most likely to possess the ball first in a sudden death situation. Under NFL postseason rules, there needs to be consideration for events AFTER the first two possessions, which is not really necessary in HS or College because of the guaranteed possessions. Your comments about kicking first, and going for 2 on the second possession are apparently exactly what the Chiefs had planned. |
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Post by veerman on Feb 15, 2024 8:30:39 GMT -6
Watching some videos Chiefs were shocked they took ball and some 49ers thought if they scored a TD it would be over..cqmiller, when doing your statistics you also have to throw in the increase % of the best player making the necessary drives when they have to in those situations. The normal statistics include the top and the bottom of their perspective tears, which sway the overall numbers, plus you have to throw in situation moments that are bigger than just a regular season game. PM scored on his last 2-3 drives, what is his probability to make a TD drive when he knows that's what he has to do to win. He hasn't been in many situations like that, but if your a Bills fan you think it's close to 100% lol sorry if anyone is a Bills fan.
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Post by veerman on Feb 15, 2024 8:48:59 GMT -6
In all my years we haven’t been in many OT games; we’ve been in 4 total and are 3-1. One reason we haven’t been in many OT games is that we will go for the win (TD > FG or 2 >1) almost all the time, so that line of thinking influences my response. In H.S. and college, I don’t think many would argue to have the ball first. When we’ve had the ball first and scored we have always gone for 2. If we have the ball second, regardless of what they did we go for two (unless a kick will win it AND we have a kicker… that happened once and we missed the kick to win and lost in the 2nd OT). Given all that, I can see an argument for taking the ball first in the NFL, but (personal opinion here) I would do everything slightly beyond reasonable to get 8 points out of the deal. As far as the 49ers decision, I don’t have a problem with them taking the ball first, and I don’t have a problem with kicking the FG (4th & 4 was it?). My thinking is go for it, but I understand their reasoning. KC has scored one TD all game. The potential for an extra possession carries some weight here.
And (for the record) I didn’t have a problem with Seattle throwing on the goal line vs. NE. (I did not like the play/formation; didn’t stress the LB enough to me… but I’m not a big “tight bunch passing guy” either, so I’ll take it they knew what they wanted…Butler just made a great play). They had to burn a TO on the long reception, leaving them with one left. If you run and get stopped- now you “have to” throw (or take your chances on one play). If you throw and it is incomplete, you have more options on the next down.
Unfortunately, if you throw an interception, people will bring that up for the next 50 years whenever there is a controversial decision made in a super bowl. Unless someone takes the ball first and kicks a field goal… then you might get replaced.
All I know is I am one hell of a lot better coach from the stands or from my living room than I am on the sideline. Na this ain't no where close to to that bad LOL...That will go down in infamy as the worst. They had plenty of time to give it ML twice to try and get 1 yard, who was the best offensive player in the game that season. They will have to just eat that one. Thats where their coaches thought plays instead of players, and their analytics costed them a SB and gave Brady another. |
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Post by silkyice on Feb 15, 2024 9:50:39 GMT -6
Na this ain't no where close to to that bad LOL...That will go down in infamy as the worst. They had plenty of time to give it ML twice to try and get 1 yard, who was the best offensive player in the game that season. They will have to just eat that one. Thats where their coaches thought plays instead of players, and their analytics costed them a SB and gave Brady another. EXACTLY |
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Feb 15, 2024 9:55:47 GMT -6
They had plenty of time to give it ML twice to try and get 1 yard, who was the best offensive player in the game that season.
Possibly... if they had 2 plays called or used their last time out after that play if he was stopped short.
Again, I don't like the play call- but I understand the reasoning of calling a pass there - not that I would have done that.
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Post by silkyice on Feb 15, 2024 10:01:56 GMT -6
Let me try and articulate this one more time.
It is not like taking the ball first LOST the 49ers the game.
IF, they kicked first, we should still assume that the Chiefs score at TD. No reason at all not to since they did. There was never a time during that drive that they had to face a "kick the fg or go for it decision". And they certainly were going to go for it on that one 4th down play no matter when that situation happened during the game.
So if they kicked first, that means that the 49ers now have one more play to score a TD. That means they have to score on that play. Certainly that is way better than what happened.
But, it also means they then have to either convert a 2 point conversion or stop Mahomes from just getting a FG. Since they kicked the FG the first time, going for 2 there seems unlikely. The odds are, at best, 25% that they score on that play and then convert a 2 point conversion.
I truly believe (and said it at the time before the kick), that a surprise onside kick after the FG was the way to win that game. Even if you don't get it, Mahomes still has to score a TD after they recover the kick. And everyone feels that was inevitable anyways. And don't quote onside kick stats at me. Those do not apply to an onside kick.
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Post by cqmiller on Feb 15, 2024 10:20:16 GMT -6
This is why I don't look at all the % win probability stuff ESPN throws out there... The statistics are just telling you what the long-term average is for all teams.
If you have Joe Montana, I don't care what the "average NFL team" scoring % is from the -25... he is probably higher than that, so unless you could honestly know how your players vs. their players vs. who is injured, etc affects the math, you still won't know what the right decision is in the heat of the moment. This is why I have never nor will ever say Dan Campbell screwed up in the NFC championship game. He wanted to WIN the game by converting one of those 2 4th downs. I think if they convert just 1 of them, they win and are in the super bowl. The outcome is what everyone is hammering him for. If he kicks it and they miss, the SAME people would be calling him an idiot for not going for it. Try to take the result away and just look at the options.
This is the kind of stuff I love getting into. I love all the rules and statistical stuff that comes in sports. I always have. Every week for the past 25 years I have practiced the "fair catch free kick" once a week just in case the 0.01% chance I would ever need it, we had repped it and the kids could execute. 2022 we won a game by kicking the ball thru the uprights off a tee with our KO team on the field and the opponent couldn't do anything but watch it go in and win the game by 1.
My decision to kick deep when we scored with a minute left and all 3 timeouts after we missed a 2-pt conversion to tie was questioned (loudly) by pretty much every parent in our stands behind me, and even some of my coaches on my own staff. Then NOT using a timeout after 2nd down and letting the clock run down to 20 seconds was HIGHLY & LOUDLY questioned by EVERYONE in the stadium. Their players were celebrating and talking $h!t to our kids and pointing to the clock as it ticked down. Then we used TO#2 after 3rd down. I walked out to talk to the officials and told them we are gonna send 3 guys back and fair catch the ball on the punt. Then I would be choosing to use my free-kick. Once our KO team went out on the field, the stadium was going CRAZY. Their kids were trying to lineup on "defense" while my kicker was setting up the tee and they were talking a lot to him, so I used my final timeout to go out and talk to the kicker and make sure he knew he was the hero or I was the idiot for trying all this craziness.
If he had missed, I would have taken a lot of heat... but it wouldn't change the fact that I chose a sequence of decisions that I felt gave my team the best odds of winning. No guarantees, which is what everyone wants. If you tell me before he kicks it that it is 100% he makes it, that takes all the risk out of the decision.
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Post by veerman on Feb 15, 2024 10:53:50 GMT -6
Let me try and articulate this one more time. It is not like taking the ball first LOST the 49ers the game. IF, they kicked first, we should still assume that the Chiefs score at TD. No reason at all not to since they did. There was never a time during that drive that they had to face a "kick the fg or go for it decision". And they certainly were going to go for it on that one 4th down play no matter when that situation happened during the game. So if they kicked first, that means that the 49ers now have one more play to score a TD. That means they have to score on that play. Certainly that is way better than what happened. But, it also means they then have to either convert a 2 point conversion or stop Mahomes from just getting a FG. Since they kicked the FG the first time, going for 2 there seems unlikely. The odds are, at best, 25% that they score on that play and then convert a 2 point conversion. I truly believe (and said it at the time before the kick), that a surprise onside kick after the FG was the way to win that game. Even if you don't get it, Mahomes still has to score a TD after they recover the kick. And everyone feels that was inevitable anyways. And don't quote onside kick stats at me. Those do not apply to an onside kick. I agree, taking the ball did not get them beat. Allowing one of, if not the best players in the game right now a chance to know what he had to do to win it didn't help their cause lol....oh and not having anyone on Mahomes on a 4th and 1 situation with the championship on the line didn't help either lol. |
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Post by cqmiller on Feb 15, 2024 10:58:57 GMT -6
Reason #1 for loss = Not clearing the area of a punt and hitting the foot of a blocker
Reason #2 for loss = Instead of PR jumping on the "first-touching", he tried to scoop it and run.
Reason #3 for loss = MISSED EXTRA POINT
If any of those 3 plays don't happen, SF wins. If you let a team hang-around, they may find a way to beat you. Game could have been handled by one of those 3 things above not happening. Details in the little things.
Sometime this offseason I'm gonna pull some of the stats and look at whether I think in playoffs I would kickoff in NFL. First glance, I'm saying 'yes' because I think the certainty of knowing what I need will make anything close to 50/50 in the math will be the tiebreaker.
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Post by silkyice on Feb 15, 2024 12:03:28 GMT -6
Let me shift the discussion just a little.
Let's say the Chiefs win the toss and decide to kick.
What do you do on that 4th down? FG or go for TD?
That shouldn't change anything because of who won the toss. The decision should still be the same.
So by that logic, everyone who says that the the 49ers should have kicked first, is really saying that the 49ers should have gone for the TD. Right? How can it not be that? You can't say that they shouldn't have taken the ball first because Mahomes was going to go win it, and at the same time say that you should have settled for a FG.
You could almost take the logic one step further, that if the 49ers would have scored, they should also go for 2. Because if you kick the xpt, and are up 7, when Chiefs then score, they would just go for 2 (and get it - because it is Mahomes) and beat you because they don't want to give you the ball back and let the 49ers just need a FG to win after the 49ers just drove down for a TD.
And then if all that is true, the ONLY way to beat Mahomes, is to score a TD on your possession and convert a 2 point conversion. And then kick a FG on your second possession. Which means you should take the ball FIRST!!!!! Otherwise, you don't get that 2nd possesion, if Mahomes is ALWAYS going to do what it takes to win.
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Post by veerman on Feb 15, 2024 12:35:10 GMT -6
Reason #4: you let the best DL for KC go unblocked while faking a sweep play opposite of him with the game on the line.
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Post by silkyice on Feb 15, 2024 12:35:17 GMT -6
Let me ask a question for everyone especially those who say that Mahomes is ALWAYS going to what it takes to win. (By the way, I am not arguing that he won't. Ha).
Describe a scenario where the 49ers get the ball second and win?
The only one I can come up with is the Chiefs score and kick an xpt and then the 49ers score and go for 2 and get it.
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Post by veerman on Feb 15, 2024 12:38:04 GMT -6
Which would not be a bad choice. Do you give it back to him not knowing the possibility, or do you say, our best chance is to go for 3 yards with what some think are better players (49 offense was most of the talk) for a chance at a championship?
Bottom line is I get the final choice as to how this game is decided with the best part of my team able to decide it.
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Post by silkyice on Feb 15, 2024 12:43:01 GMT -6
Which would not be a bad choice. Do you give it back to him not knowing the possibility, or do you say, our best chance is to go for 3 yards with what some think are better players (49 offense was most of the talk) for a chance at a championship? Bottom line is I get the final choice as to how this game is decided with the best part of my team able to decide it. Side note: I think it is on the 2 yard line for NFL. Yes, I do think that is the best choice. If you go second. But I think the better choice is to take the ball first. Score. Surprise onside kick. |
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Post by Defcord on Feb 15, 2024 13:01:51 GMT -6
Reason #4: you let the best DL for KC go unblocked while faking a sweep play opposite of him with the game on the line. Reason #5...all of the above reasons are not the responsibility of your DC, but you fire him after the game. |
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Post by Defcord on Feb 15, 2024 13:06:31 GMT -6
Let me ask a question for everyone especially those who say that Mahomes is ALWAYS going to what it takes to win. (By the way, I am not arguing that he won't. Ha). Describe a scenario where the 49ers get the ball second and win? The only one I can come up with is the Chiefs score and kick an xpt and then the 49ers score and go for 2 and get it. The scenario you are looking for is that they stop the Chiefs and then score. Mahomes as good as he is, isn't going to score every time. The Chiefs didn't score a touchdown at all in the first half and lost 6 games during the season. Mahomes is good, but he's not unstoppable. |
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Post by veerman on Feb 15, 2024 13:11:17 GMT -6
Let me ask a question for everyone especially those who say that Mahomes is ALWAYS going to what it takes to win. (By the way, I am not arguing that he won't. Ha). Describe a scenario where the 49ers get the ball second and win? The only one I can come up with is the Chiefs score and kick an xpt and then the 49ers score and go for 2 and get it. The scenario you are looking for is that they stop the Chiefs and then score. Mahomes as good as he is, isn't going to score every time. The Chiefs didn't score a touchdown at all in the first half and lost 6 games during the season. Mahomes is good, but he's not unstoppable. Correct, BUT he did and Has scored when they Must in the playoffs except for one time vs Bengals. His other losses are against the Goat, so they are acceptable lol. |
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Post by Defcord on Feb 15, 2024 13:19:45 GMT -6
The scenario you are looking for is that they stop the Chiefs and then score. Mahomes as good as he is, isn't going to score every time. The Chiefs didn't score a touchdown at all in the first half and lost 6 games during the season. Mahomes is good, but he's not unstoppable. Correct, BUT he did and Has scored when they Must in the playoffs except for one time vs Bengals. His other losses are against the Goat, so they are acceptable lol. Well of course. But do you as an NFL team look out there and just concede that he is going to score? You are a Super Bowl defense. I feel like the game plan and expectation has to be to stop him. Why even play the overtime? Just let them have the trophy and get to bed early. |
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