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Post by carookie on Jun 11, 2023 20:28:46 GMT -6
About what we did for on the field stuff. 3x's a week for 2 hours or less. Weight room was open an hour before if they wanted to lift. Did that for July and usually first week in Aug. Week off before official start date which has now become "heat acclimization" week where the state mandates you do a week in helmets before going full pads the next week. Those are the only two weeks you get now for pre-season in PA with one scrimmage. I am all for less is more but the one scrimmage makes it hard to get ready for a season if you ask me. 6 hours a week- 5 weeks before the official start of practice? Coach you essentially had 15 practices...before the start of practices. Or am I misreading it? I absolutely understand the S&C aspect of summer. Particularly the Strength part. All for it. And I can absolutely see why some S&C hours might be long- small weight room, having to limit numbers at a time etc. But it really just surprises me the amount of people who essentially start practices around Independence day if not before. Maybe I am interpreting what they are typing incorrectlyNo, you are not incorrect in your interpretation, it IS practice and athletic development. There is weight room, there is speed training and agility work, but there is also classroom and install, indi time, team, small group, install, etc. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 11, 2023 21:30:20 GMT -6
So this board has a large number of threads either complaining about "kids these days" and lack of participation, or threads complaining about travel baseball/ 7-on-7, and yet we have football practicing for weeks before then getting to practice for weeks before then playing a game.
At least travel baseball/aau basketball/7-on-7 are playing games and not WATCHING FILM of offseason practice weeks before the preseason practice occurring weeks before the first game.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Jun 11, 2023 23:11:57 GMT -6
I'm honestly surprised by how surprised some people are by the number of hours teams are putting into the summer. Not a comment about whether it's good, bad, or indifferent but just the surprise about how common it is.
In my area literally every single team has a summer program going for about 10-12 hours a week, and has for the last 20 years.
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Post by realdawg on Jun 12, 2023 3:25:53 GMT -6
We are in the 12 hour a week range as I mentioned earlier in this thread. I agree 100 percent with the guy who said dont do anything on Fridays in the summer. Everyone around here is on roughly the same kind of summer schedule. If you are not, your best players are probably going to leave and go to a school that is doing it and does "care" about winning and getting better. If you do it, you are going to lose some kids who are on the fence about playing and dont want to put that kind of time in. Mind you-at least in NC these workouts are not mandatory. So then you have to ask yourself, do you want to lose your better players, or keep the ones on the fence?  ? |
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Post by wingtol on Jun 12, 2023 5:33:30 GMT -6
About what we did for on the field stuff. 3x's a week for 2 hours or less. Weight room was open an hour before if they wanted to lift. Did that for July and usually first week in Aug. Week off before official start date which has now become "heat acclimization" week where the state mandates you do a week in helmets before going full pads the next week. Those are the only two weeks you get now for pre-season in PA with one scrimmage. I am all for less is more but the one scrimmage makes it hard to get ready for a season if you ask me. 6 hours a week- 5 weeks before the official start of practice? Coach you essentially had 15 practices...before the start of practices. Or am I misreading it? I absolutely understand the S&C aspect of summer. Particularly the Strength part. All for it. And I can absolutely see why some S&C hours might be long- small weight room, having to limit numbers at a time etc. But it really just surprises me the amount of people who essentially start practices around Independence day if not before. Maybe I am interpreting what they are typing incorrectly Pretty much. It was basically practice but when you're not hitting and going full out it's a bit different. We didn't hold anything against kids if they weren't there. We basically start over from ground zero first official day any ways. All with in our state association guidelines. Guess since we don't have an official spring ball time here this is what we get in exchange. |
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Post by carookie on Jun 12, 2023 9:04:00 GMT -6
So this board has a large number of threads either complaining about "kids these days" and lack of participation, or threads complaining about travel baseball/ 7-on-7, and yet we have football practicing for weeks before then getting to practice for weeks before then playing a game. At least travel baseball/aau basketball/7-on-7 are playing games and not WATCHING FILM of offseason practice weeks before the preseason practice occurring weeks before the first game. I think most of us here are making the connection between dwindling participation numbers and overloading summer schedules. I doubt many here are in favor of these heavy summer schedules, but are recognizing they take place. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 12, 2023 9:17:26 GMT -6
So this board has a large number of threads either complaining about "kids these days" and lack of participation, or threads complaining about travel baseball/ 7-on-7, and yet we have football practicing for weeks before then getting to practice for weeks before then playing a game. At least travel baseball/aau basketball/7-on-7 are playing games and not WATCHING FILM of offseason practice weeks before the preseason practice occurring weeks before the first game. I think most of us here are making the connection between dwindling participation numbers and overloading summer schedules. I doubt many here are in favor of these heavy summer schedules, but are recognizing they take place. And I want to be clear- I get it that in some locations, this is the expectation. Some communities in some regions of the country don’t see this as anything than the norm. I just have trouble rationalizing the concept of having 4/5 weeks of practice, then restarting and having 4 weeks of official practice before having a game. |
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Post by 3rdandlong on Jun 12, 2023 12:02:55 GMT -6
There’s a balance IMO. Doing things just because others are is not guaranteeing success but taking a bunch of time off to be contrarian isn’t either. The 5 game COVID season in California taught me a lot about our program. We went 1-4 and got killed by teams we usually beat. I’m a believer that it was largely due to limited workout and practice time. Didn’t they have the same limitations? Each school district was slightly different but overall yes, they did have the same limitations. Which makes my point that much more valid. When we were all given 2 weeks to prep for football, we struggled and got beat by teams we usually wouldn't which shows that prep time is premium for us. |
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Post by tripsclosed on Jun 12, 2023 12:17:37 GMT -6
Didn’t they have the same limitations? Each school district was slightly different but overall yes, they did have the same limitations. Which makes my point that much more valid. When we were all given 2 weeks to prep for football, we struggled and got beat by teams we usually wouldn't which shows that prep time is premium for us. Yup, basically, lack of practice time, which usually sets your team apart and gives you an edge because you get more out of it than your opponents do, reduced results more down to random chance in the case of equal matchups, and put you at a disadvantage vs teams with better talent, right? |
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Post by blb on Jun 12, 2023 12:35:18 GMT -6
Isn't there a difference between doing some "Skill Development" in June-July according to whatever your state's regulations are, and having full-blown practices (pads or not)?
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Post by realdawg on Jun 12, 2023 15:14:48 GMT -6
I think most of us here are making the connection between dwindling participation numbers and overloading summer schedules. I doubt many here are in favor of these heavy summer schedules, but are recognizing they take place. And I want to be clear- I get it that in some locations, this is the expectation. Some communities in some regions of the country don’t see this as anything than the norm. I just have trouble rationalizing the concept of having 4/5 weeks of practice, then restarting and having 4 weeks of official practice before having a game. In NC you have a game at the end of the 3rd week of practice. You can scrimmage another team during the second week of practice. Most teams do 2 scrimmages, on Wednesday and Friday. So you essentially have 8 practices before scrimmaging another team, and 12 or so before your first real game. The first 2 of these practices must be in helmets only. The next 3 are in shells but no contact. The 6th practice you can hit. |
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Post by realdawg on Jun 12, 2023 15:17:22 GMT -6
Isn't there a difference between doing some "Skill Development" in June-July according to whatever your state's regulations are, and having full-blown practices (pads or not)? I would say that there is. To me, skill development is individual drills you need to play a position. Practice is individual, group, and team in larger settings. Our "practice" time in the summer is an hour. We lift, we run, and we practice 1 side of the ball for an hour each day, some days we may split it up 30 minutes each side. These practices are pretty laid back, we focus on alot of individual work and teaching time. And we try to make sure that everyone is getting some reps. |
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Post by carookie on Jun 12, 2023 18:17:39 GMT -6
Didn’t they have the same limitations? Each school district was slightly different but overall yes, they did have the same limitations. Which makes my point that much more valid. When we were all given 2 weeks to prep for football, we struggled and got beat by teams we usually wouldn't which shows that prep time is premium for us. You could be right, but I think thats a small sample size, and there are a LOT of other variables that need to be isolated. Correlation does not equal cause. |
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Post by 3rdandlong on Jun 12, 2023 20:29:16 GMT -6
Each school district was slightly different but overall yes, they did have the same limitations. Which makes my point that much more valid. When we were all given 2 weeks to prep for football, we struggled and got beat by teams we usually wouldn't which shows that prep time is premium for us. Yup, basically, lack of practice time, which usually sets your team apart and gives you an edge because you get more out of it than your opponents do, reduced results more down to random chance in the case of equal matchups, and put you at a disadvantage vs teams with better talent, right? Bingo! |
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Post by carookie on Jun 12, 2023 22:36:10 GMT -6
Each school district was slightly different but overall yes, they did have the same limitations. Which makes my point that much more valid. When we were all given 2 weeks to prep for football, we struggled and got beat by teams we usually wouldn't which shows that prep time is premium for us. Yup, basically, lack of practice time, which usually sets your team apart and gives you an edge because you get more out of it than your opponents do, reduced results more down to random chance in the case of equal matchups, and put you at a disadvantage vs teams with better talent, right? But the question is to what extent do you need more practice time and when do you reach a point of negative returns? Do you really need 35 hours a week of practice to be better, or is there no point where you are practicing too much? |
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Post by tripsclosed on Jun 12, 2023 22:38:49 GMT -6
Yup, basically, lack of practice time, which usually sets your team apart and gives you an edge because you get more out of it than your opponents do, reduced results more down to random chance in the case of equal matchups, and put you at a disadvantage vs teams with better talent, right? But the question is to what extent do you need more practice time and when do you reach a point of negative returns? Do you really need 35 hours a week of practice to be better, or is there no point where you are practicing too much? 100%, coach. Like I said earlier, I'm fine with no summer and just pre-season practice |
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Post by mrjvi on Jun 13, 2023 5:14:48 GMT -6
(1 of my first years) I used to coach out in central NY. The first year that NY "allowed" practices as long as they weren't school sponsored, 1 school (I won't mention the name) had full padded practices for 3 hours all week, all summer, REQUIRED by the coach or you didn't get to play. They started the season ranked very high and won their first 4 or 5 games big. We played them somewhere around week 8 or 9 and beat them pretty good with a team that wasn't near as good. After the game the kids from both teams were talking and I could hear the other teams kids saying how sick they were of playing by then and couldn't wait for the season to be over. They had been pounding hard for @17 or 18 weeks. They actually lost their last 4 games.
I've always had 4 possible days/week to lift and do some plyo/sprint work and maybe a touch game and I wanted them to try to hit 2 a week. Rewards if they hit like 18 for the summer but no penalty for not getting that many. O and D schemes are simple and run oriented and we've always been near or at the top most years. Crazy summer stuff isn't necessary, at least where I live.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Jun 13, 2023 13:35:17 GMT -6
We are in the 12 hour a week range as I mentioned earlier in this thread. I agree 100 percent with the guy who said dont do anything on Fridays in the summer. Everyone around here is on roughly the same kind of summer schedule. If you are not, your best players are probably going to leave and go to a school that is doing it and does "care" about winning and getting better. If you do it, you are going to lose some kids who are on the fence about playing and dont want to put that kind of time in. Mind you-at least in NC these workouts are not mandatory. So then you have to ask yourself, do you want to lose your better players, or keep the ones on the fence? ? This! You're going to have some kids who could probably help you decide not to play because of the workouts but you also probably have some pretty darn good players who would leave if you didn't have the workouts. Basketball and baseball off-season schedules are even worse. They jump into tournaments as soon as the season is over. I think this also hurts football participation because kids would rather play than practice and you can't play football year round. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Jun 13, 2023 15:03:20 GMT -6
We are in the 12 hour a week range as I mentioned earlier in this thread. I agree 100 percent with the guy who said dont do anything on Fridays in the summer. Everyone around here is on roughly the same kind of summer schedule. If you are not, your best players are probably going to leave and go to a school that is doing it and does "care" about winning and getting better. If you do it, you are going to lose some kids who are on the fence about playing and dont want to put that kind of time in. Mind you-at least in NC these workouts are not mandatory. So then you have to ask yourself, do you want to lose your better players, or keep the ones on the fence? ? This! You're going to have some kids who could probably help you decide not to play because of the workouts but you also probably have some pretty darn good players who would leave if you didn't have the workouts. Basketball and baseball off-season schedules are even worse. They jump into tournaments as soon as the season is over. I think this also hurts football participation because kids would rather play than practice and you can't play football year round. but... you can play play flag/7 on 7.... |
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Post by realdawg on Jun 13, 2023 16:47:33 GMT -6
We are in the 12 hour a week range as I mentioned earlier in this thread. I agree 100 percent with the guy who said dont do anything on Fridays in the summer. Everyone around here is on roughly the same kind of summer schedule. If you are not, your best players are probably going to leave and go to a school that is doing it and does "care" about winning and getting better. If you do it, you are going to lose some kids who are on the fence about playing and dont want to put that kind of time in. Mind you-at least in NC these workouts are not mandatory. So then you have to ask yourself, do you want to lose your better players, or keep the ones on the fence? ? This! You're going to have some kids who could probably help you decide not to play because of the workouts but you also probably have some pretty darn good players who would leave if you didn't have the workouts. Basketball and baseball off-season schedules are even worse. They jump into tournaments as soon as the season is over. I think this also hurts football participation because kids would rather play than practice and you can't play football year round. I love our baseball coach. He’s one of our football coaches too. But a week after we lost in 3rd round of baseball playoffs he started summer league practice. And right now they are playing 3 summer league games a week throughout the month of June. We got a couple guys that aren’t coming to football workouts in the AM bc they don’t want to be tired before their summer league games that night. To me, that’s pretty crazy too. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 13, 2023 17:17:06 GMT -6
This! You're going to have some kids who could probably help you decide not to play because of the workouts but you also probably have some pretty darn good players who would leave if you didn't have the workouts. Basketball and baseball off-season schedules are even worse. They jump into tournaments as soon as the season is over. I think this also hurts football participation because kids would rather play than practice and you can't play football year round. I love our baseball coach. He’s one of our football coaches too. But a week after we lost in 3rd round of baseball playoffs he started summer league practice. And right now they are playing 3 summer league games a week throughout the month of June. We got a couple guys that aren’t coming to football workouts in the AM bc they don’t want to be tired before their summer league games that night. To me, that’s pretty crazy too. The not lifting part... I agree with. But playing 3 baseball games a week- well if I were a baseball player, that sounds kind of fun. Much more fun than watching practice film of football practice 9 weeks before our first game. |
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Post by realdawg on Jun 13, 2023 18:55:04 GMT -6
We dont watch any practice film during the summer. Or any film for that matter.
Warmup and lift takes about an hour.
Little rest break
Running.
Little rest break
Practice 1 side of the ball for an hour.
I agree though, playing a baseball game (although meaningless to me) sounds much more fun than that. I dont care if they play, heck I WANT them to. I just want them to get up and come to workouts at least a couple of the days we offer them
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Post by coachdavis24 on Jun 16, 2023 12:25:43 GMT -6
In West Virginia, we currently have a 3 week period in June where we can practice in helmets and eventually in shoulder pads. We practice from 4 p.m. - 6 p.m. Monday - Thursday for 3 weeks. We have open weight room hours for football before practice and those hours continue in July.
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Post by fantom on Jun 16, 2023 12:59:01 GMT -6
In VA during the summer we went from 5:30 PM until 8. That included lifting, running, and football activities.
I've seen that some guys have said that they open the weight room before practice. Is somebody running a program with the kids that show up to lift?
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Post by Trojan2017 on Jun 16, 2023 14:40:39 GMT -6
Our summer schedule below. Myself and my DC run the strength side of things. Only have two stipends. Everything is in the mornings. We have a one week team camp at the beginning of the summer that runs from 8-10am. Outside of that we have 45 minutes of 7on7 vs ourselves on Monday and then we have an hour long practice on Wednesday mornings during our allotted lifting time. I always tell coaches to be at team camp but outside of that, if you want to take a family vacation and will miss a 7on7 or a Wednesday practice, you take it. We can be flexible and make a Wednesday practice work if we have a coach or two gone. I tell the parents the same thing. Go on vacation with your kids and make memories. Don’t let our football/lifting schedule deter you from doing that. If we are losing games because we have kids missing a couple of days or a week because of a family vacation… we have much bigger problems! We have great attendance, great parental support, and my assistants (and myself!!!) are never burned out.
Monday-
1. 6:30-7:30 Lift
2. 7:45-8:30 7on7 vs ourselves
Tuesday
1. 6:30-8:00 Lift/max velocity speed/competitions
Wednesday
1. 6:30-7:30 practice one side of the ball
2. 7:30-8:00 (book readings with coaches/players… see 2nd post below with the books we read)
Thursday
1. 6:30-8:00 lift/plyo/Character Lesson of the week
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Post by larrymoe on Jun 16, 2023 15:21:43 GMT -6
2. 7:30-8:00 (book readings with coaches) What? |
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Post by Trojan2017 on Jun 16, 2023 17:02:35 GMT -6
I should have expanded more on that. We do book studies with our guys throughout the summer. One coach is assigned a grade and they read the book and have group discussions over it all summer and into the season. I fill in the gap if a coach is gone from that Wednesday practice. I feel like it has made a positive impact on our team culture. A long with some of the other things that we do throughout the year with the team. When the kids leave our program they will have read all 4 of these books Freshmen- The Energy Bus Sophomores- No Complaining Rule Juniors- Training Camp Seniors- The Power of Positive Leadership 2. 7:30-8:00 (book readings with coaches) What? |
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Post by coachdavis24 on Jun 16, 2023 18:40:55 GMT -6
In VA during the summer we went from 5:30 PM until 8. That included lifting, running, and football activities. I've seen that some guys have said that they open the weight room before practice. Is somebody running a program with the kids that show up to lift? We have a county strength coach (we only have one high school in the county) that trains our guys. He is a former football player and he holds a couple advanced degrees in exercise science. |
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Post by carookie on Jun 16, 2023 19:35:47 GMT -6
I think parties involved would be more accepting of the hours put in, if they didnt start so early. Summers should allow for more sleeping in. There is big time school down the road from us that goes m-f 6:00am to 10:00am.
Gotta be waking up darn near 4:45 all summer long just to get there on time?!
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Post by KYCoach2331 on Jun 17, 2023 7:02:29 GMT -6
Month of June we go 9-11:30 MWF
Kentucky has the two week dead period, we give them an extra week on that.
If we went anymore then that our basketball kids would die. They’ll have played like 60 games this month for summer ball.
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