Summer practice hours

Run a normal practice basically. Basically like NFL OTAs. It was always changing with our state association but we could wear helmets. Some years we were allowed shoulder pads as well. Could hit bags most years, some years there were stipulations with "contact" not that we ever approached anything close to full contact in summer work outs.

Until someone with authority has the guts to rein them in, then what will stop them. Remember, a lot of the coaches who are doing this believe that 20+ hours a week throughout summer is not surpassing the point of negative returns. 

I imagine most of them would argue that 20 hours (or whatever they do) is the sweet spot, but I imagine that stems from their background, and coming from a situation where having done less at one point was attached to a losing season. Which leads me to wonder, what will the next generation of coaches do? Maybe a decade from now 30 hours a week in the summer will become the norm?

I wonder if we were to isolate coaches in a natural state, and they were to look at the information from the outside vantage point with no biases, what would they view as the optimal amount of practice time?

You’re comparing apples to oranges. I find it difficult to understand how you could make that argument.

Ncaa has time restrictions for practicing and nfl players are being paid a lot of money

I will be honest- I can't tell if you are seriously typing this, or are being facetious.   

And to answer your question about summer contact in NCAA.. it is ZERO.  They can not have meeting time, on field practice etc in college with the football coaches.  

That is why the strength guys are at a premium.  College athletes spend more time with S&C coaches than they they do their sport coaches throughout their careers. 

I know you are playing the other side, but that is somewhat the crux of my post. What is the optimal (in general) amount of time to spend for in summer weekly practices?

Lets isolate the variable here a bit; lets assume that family factors are not an issue. For NFL players, as you cited, this is their job. So if they want vacation time, time with the family, etc. it has to work around the team's schedule. For HS players, this is not paying the bills, their parents are; so if mom and dad want to take a vacation, or get some time for their son to enjoy the summer, then they win out. They don't have to fit around your schedule to provide for their family, or like a college athlete to maintain their scholarship. Lets assume, there is no risk of parent mutiny. Mom and dad are willing and wanting to wake up at 4 AM to get their kid to practice 7 days a week if called upon, and don't care if he gets a trip camping or to the beach.

Additionally, lets assume a few other things: the primary goal is to win the state championship. Your players won't mutiny either, but they can burn out all the same (ditto for your coaches). The amount of time other coaches in the state varies across the board, but nobody is using your time spent against you to poach your players.  You have 10 weeks of summer, then a scrimmage during your first week of school, followed by week one game.

How many hours are your putting in, and why? Whats the reasoning (why not one more hour or one fewer)? Do you go light in the summer, then bring back a hell week? 

PS, as an aside, as far as I know colleges practice far less in the summer. 

Yes the parents will win out, but that's also true currently when players are coming in during the summer 2, 3 or even 4 hours a day mon-thu or mon-fri. If the parents and players are already committing to 2, 3 or 4 hours a day mon-thu or mon-fri, increasing the hours per day to 6 hours won't make it anymore tough to plan a vacation.

If you commit to 2/3/4 hours a day mon-thu or mon-fri, you already can't go on vacation those weeks anyways? Lol. Increasing the hours per day from 2/3/4 will have absolutely zero effect on vacation planning.

Absolutely, but again, this is assuming players are bought in and want to work hard, and players and parents are fine with them being there 6 hours a week mon-thu or mon-fri. If they don't want to do 6 hours a day, that's 100% fine. I'm totally fine with no summer football, at all.

Why does it have to be that early? Ive seen plenty of people mention in this thread the players come in a lot later than they would with parents getting up at 4 AM. F*** 4 AM for HS football if im the parents in that situation. Lol

Why do you mention 7 days here? I mentioned mon-thu or mon-fri.

This is a bit of a hyperbolic reaction? It doesn't have to be this schedule every week of summer. You could do it several weeks with a few weeks off or a few half weeks...

Is that not the goal too at Alabama, UGA, etc? That's why they put in the time and work (for the players it's of course to get a ticket to the next level too of course lol)

Again, why are we suggesting HS players will get burned out working 6 hours a day, 4 or 5 days a week with the work split between meeting/teaching (and rehashing the teaching) time, lifting, and on field practice time, when college players just a year later as freshmen are somehow not getting burned out and losing their fkn minds having a 500+ page offensive or defensive install packet drilled into them in meetings all day...?

I mean if the coaches aren't up for it, then that finishes it before it gets off the ground.

Like I said, I'm completely fine with not having summer football at all and letting players have the whole summer to do whatever. Seriously

Ok, but what about meeting time too?

I can't believe some of the stuff that I'm reading. IT'S PHUKIN' HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL. Sure, it's good to teach a work ethic but they're kids. Football shouldn't take their and their family's lives over. Coaches have families and lives. No wonder I retired.

tripsclosed Bylaw 17.1.7.2.1.6.2 for football puts meeting time/onfield football based activities at 2 hours a week during out of academic year conditioning time.  This is part of the 8 hour limit of strength/conditioning time. 

 They can not wear any equipment, and no equipment other than footballs can be used.  And that is only if the student is enrolled in a certain number of degree path classes. 

While rules change, I still say with some degree of confidence that what is being discussed in this thread are far greater demands on the HS kids than what was demanded of Div 1 athletes when I coached Div 1 football, and what is allowed to be demanded of Div 1 athletes today. 

My man, I think you are missing my point when you are parsing apart all the specific criteria. I am NOT writing that you should go 7 days a week starting at 4AM, I am writing that all parties (players, families, coaches) are willing to put forth that work without it being an issue (I just used those exaggerated examples). An I'm not trying to play gotcha, but posing a serious question; what is the optimal amount of practice time to best build a team to win a title, and why that much.

I cited primary goal of winning state to, as stated, isolate the variable. As I know many coaches who have other primary goals- develop players for college, teach them to be better men, etc. Thats also why I standardized the summer length and schedule. 

So, if you had your druthers, how many hours a week? Not playing coy, just looking for a discussion. 

So, then how are 500+ page offensive or defensive install packets getting taught and solidified with such a strain on time?

Keep in mind that some of those pages are fluff.  Philosophies, mottos, etc.   Many pages are just the same thing drawn up against multiple variations.  

Even cutting out the fluff, that's still a lot of chit, man. And to some extent that's true on the variations, but it's still gotta be learned and re-taught/rehashed until it becomes second nature if you want the players to be good at it...

I would highly discourage Friday workouts during the summer, especially in the evening and especially in June. Give people long weekends to get their beach trips, golf outings, river trips, fishing trips, family visits, etc., out of the way because there won’t be time for much of that once the season starts.

I think players and assistants need just enough time to get a little bored with all of the above by the end of the summer and ready for football to start.

6 hours a week- 5 weeks before the official start of practice?   Coach you essentially had 15 practices...before the start of practices. Or am I misreading it? 

I absolutely understand the S&C aspect of summer.  Particularly the Strength part. All for it. And I can absolutely see why some S&C hours might be long- small weight room, having to limit numbers at a time etc.  

But it really just surprises me the amount of people who essentially start practices around Independence day if not before.   Maybe I am interpreting what they are typing incorrectly