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Post by carookie on Oct 16, 2022 12:45:18 GMT -6
Played a team a few weeks ago in a big game, winner took lead in league. This team had two qbs who each took over 40% of snaps-a passing guy and a running guy.
Game starts, and I only see one of them out there warming up. Ling story short, one of them changed his jersey number before the game. Maxpreps still has him as the original number, and there was nothing on video indicating his uniform got ruined in a previous game.
Now maybe he just forgot his uniform at home, or spilled team meal on it. But the coach does have a reputation for pulling tricks of this nature.
It didnt take long to recognize the newly numbered qb, and didnt really impact the game. But my question is about everyones thoughts on this move. Dirty and deceitful trick that you are above; or an acceptable move of gamesmanship?
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Post by chi5hi on Oct 16, 2022 12:55:55 GMT -6
Sometimes a team doesn't have an away jersey (or a home jersey) that is the same number.
That happened to us a few years ago. Our QB had a home jersey number 13, but an away jersey number 11.
Maybe the explanation is as simple as that.
BTW...we listed the jersey number on the roster before the game so our opponent had the change.
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Post by blb on Oct 16, 2022 13:17:01 GMT -6
Played a team a few weeks ago in a big game, winner took lead in league. This team had two qbs who each took over 40% of snaps-a passing guy and a running guy. Game starts, and I only see one of them out there warming up. Ling story short, one of them changed his jersey number before the game. Maxpreps still has him as the original number, and there was nothing on video indicating his uniform got ruined in a previous game. Now maybe he just forgot his uniform at home, or spilled team meal on it. But the coach does have a reputation for pulling tricks of this nature. It didnt take long to recognize the newly numbered qb, and didnt really impact the game. But my question is about everyones thoughts on this move. Dirty and deceitful trick that you are above; or an acceptable move of gamesmanship? I wouldn't rely on MaxPreps for information such as that. |
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Post by carookie on Oct 16, 2022 13:17:09 GMT -6
Sometimes a team doesn't have an away jersey (or a home jersey) that is the same number. That happened to us a few years ago. Our QB had a home jersey number 13, but an away jersey number 11. Maybe the explanation is as simple as that. BTW...we listed the jersey number on the roster before the game so our opponent had the change. No, they had #7 for him in both blue and white, seen it on film. Not an issue of unavailable # to start the season |
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Post by carookie on Oct 16, 2022 13:19:53 GMT -6
Played a team a few weeks ago in a big game, winner took lead in league. This team had two qbs who each took over 40% of snaps-a passing guy and a running guy. Game starts, and I only see one of them out there warming up. Ling story short, one of them changed his jersey number before the game. Maxpreps still has him as the original number, and there was nothing on video indicating his uniform got ruined in a previous game. Now maybe he just forgot his uniform at home, or spilled team meal on it. But the coach does have a reputation for pulling tricks of this nature. It didnt take long to recognize the newly numbered qb, and didnt really impact the game. But my question is about everyones thoughts on this move. Dirty and deceitful trick that you are above; or an acceptable move of gamesmanship? I wouldn't rely on MaxPreps for information such as that. I cited maxpreps to point out there hadnt been a noted jersey change beforehand (or since). And that the number they are sharing with his highlight reels was his original number. I got plenty of films with his original number to know what number he was throughout the season prior to our game. |
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Post by blb on Oct 16, 2022 14:32:20 GMT -6
I wouldn't rely on MaxPreps for information such as that. I cited maxpreps to point out there hadnt been a noted jersey change beforehand (or since). And that the number they are sharing with his highlight reels was his original number. I got plenty of films with his original number to know what number he was throughout the season prior to our game. Fair enough. Maybe take it as a compliment that coach felt he had to try to "deceive" you to win. Still have to defend the plays they run, not just the player (regardless of number). |
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Post by bobgoodman on Oct 16, 2022 14:42:37 GMT -6
Sometimes a team doesn't have an away jersey (or a home jersey) that is the same number. That happened to us a few years ago. Our QB had a home jersey number 13, but an away jersey number 11. Maybe the explanation is as simple as that. That's exactly what happened with one of our players today. Got me confused. |
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Post by blb on Oct 16, 2022 14:43:31 GMT -6
We once opened for five years with a team whose coach - long-time old school, HOFer - when they scrimmaged would have his kids trade jersies (Backs to OL and vice-versa) or wear them inside-out so you couldn't tell who was who by their numbers.
Which didn't matter much because he never sent us a roster anyway.
He also would play a straight 5-2 defense in the scrimmage but only used it once in first game against us.
Ingenious coaching on his part, or unsportsmanlike deceit?
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Post by newt21 on Oct 16, 2022 18:43:21 GMT -6
I don’t see the problem, we’ve had to change kids jerseys mid game before for various reasons (blood, tears, number eligibility, etc). Takes more than a number to hide a stud….or a dud
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Post by freezeoption on Oct 16, 2022 18:52:10 GMT -6
A lot of teams just use practice jerseys for scrimmage and there is no law saying got to use same defense.
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Post by nicku on Oct 16, 2022 21:05:57 GMT -6
Not necessarily on topic but my two best friends from high school are twins and both played basketball. One was a sharpshooter, the other had average skills but could lay a nasty pick and played great D. One was 12, one was 21. Coach switched them halfway through the league season. It took a while for people to catch on because the shooter was wiiide open a lot after the switch.
I would be impressed by anyone that could get a teenager to change his jersey number mid-season...
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Post by blb on Oct 17, 2022 4:52:19 GMT -6
A lot of teams just use practice jerseys for scrimmage and there is no law saying got to use same defense. In the example I cited they were practice jersies with numbers on them. Why would one use a defense other than what you plan to use during the season unless you are intentionally trying to mislead scouts? Would be waste of a lot of scrimmage reps. |
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Post by silkyice on Oct 17, 2022 6:39:59 GMT -6
Coach should let you know. If he doesn't that is unethical. But not the worst thing I have seen.
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 17, 2022 6:52:33 GMT -6
A lot of teams just use practice jerseys for scrimmage and there is no law saying got to use same defense. There is no "law" on any of this. It's just made up stuff guys get their panties in a wad over. |
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Post by MICoach on Oct 17, 2022 7:22:17 GMT -6
We once opened for five years with a team whose coach - long-time old school, HOFer - when they scrimmaged would have his kids trade jersies (Backs to OL and vice-versa) or wear them inside-out so you couldn't tell who was who by their numbers. Which didn't matter much because he never sent us a roster anyway. He also would play a straight 5-2 defense in the scrimmage but only used it once in first game against us. Ingenious coaching on his part, or unsportsmanlike deceit? Is the 5-2 even at all applicable to their D? To me it would be pretty dumb if they're like a 4-2-5 team, but if they run 3-3/3-4 stuff and just base teach it out of 5-2 that might be a reasonable thing to do. I feel like, at least around my area, there is usually some gamesmanship with regard to what you show in your scrimmage. Most teams have a 3 or 4 team scrimmage so they'll either throw out some WILD stuff, or really just run very base stuff. Last year we had two starting OL out with covid and another injured early in the scrimmage so we had a real hodge podge offensive group (and by extension, very limited play calling). We had some opposing coaches accuse us of intentionally being deceitful when in reality we just didn't have another option. At another school we had a shotgun spread-to-run but would get under center situationally. Our scrimmage was against some cupcakes that year and we weren't super deep, so in trying to keep things simple we ran our entire second session under center. Down the road I coached with an HC who was previously an opponent and had to use that scout film going into week 1 against us. It was a couple years down the line but he thought it was hilarious that they had spent a decent amount of time preparing for under center I formation and we didn't run it at all the entire game. |
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Post by blackknight on Nov 2, 2022 13:19:17 GMT -6
Had a QB years ago who had one of his jerseys stolen out of his car. Had to give him a different number home and away.
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Post by wingtol on Nov 3, 2022 5:08:05 GMT -6
We once opened for five years with a team whose coach - long-time old school, HOFer - when they scrimmaged would have his kids trade jersies (Backs to OL and vice-versa) or wear them inside-out so you couldn't tell who was who by their numbers. Which didn't matter much because he never sent us a roster anyway. He also would play a straight 5-2 defense in the scrimmage but only used it once in first game against us. Ingenious coaching on his part, or unsportsmanlike deceit? Is the 5-2 even at all applicable to their D? To me it would be pretty dumb if they're like a 4-2-5 team, but if they run 3-3/3-4 stuff and just base teach it out of 5-2 that might be a reasonable thing to do. I feel like, at least around my area, there is usually some gamesmanship with regard to what you show in your scrimmage. Most teams have a 3 or 4 team scrimmage so they'll either throw out some WILD stuff, or really just run very base stuff. Last year we had two starting OL out with covid and another injured early in the scrimmage so we had a real hodge podge offensive group (and by extension, very limited play calling). We had some opposing coaches accuse us of intentionally being deceitful when in reality we just didn't have another option. At another school we had a shotgun spread-to-run but would get under center situationally. Our scrimmage was against some cupcakes that year and we weren't super deep, so in trying to keep things simple we ran our entire second session under center. Down the road I coached with an HC who was previously an opponent and had to use that scout film going into week 1 against us. It was a couple years down the line but he thought it was hilarious that they had spent a decent amount of time preparing for under center I formation and we didn't run it at all the entire game. You do what's good for your team period. Do people expect a script of what you're going to do vs them each week? Here are the plays we are gonna run in order for ya coach!! People need to get over themselves. Are you not supposed to game plan each week either? Just declare the 10 plays you are going to run all year?? Everyone knows week 1 sucks cuase you kind of have an idea of what the other guys are gonna do but not really. Adapt Adjust Overcome. Not to say we didn't just thrown random jerseys to our guy for scrimmages just to make it a little harder for our week 1 opponent to figure out just who was who.... |
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Post by silkyice on Nov 3, 2022 6:34:09 GMT -6
You do what's good for your team period. Do people expect a script of what you're going to do vs them each week? Here are the plays we are gonna run in order for ya coach!! People need to get over themselves. Are you not supposed to game plan each week either? Just declare the 10 plays you are going to run all year?? Everyone knows week 1 sucks cuase you kind of have an idea of what the other guys are gonna do but not really. Adapt Adjust Overcome. Not to say we didn't just thrown random jerseys to our guy for scrimmages just to make it a little harder for our week 1 opponent to figure out just who was who.... If you have players wear different jersey numbers in a scrimmage, no worries. But that is wrong in a game without alerting the other team. We have to turn in accurate rosters with names and numbers for opponent access in our state. Maybe that isn't the case nationwide. |
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Post by fantom on Nov 3, 2022 9:12:27 GMT -6
You do what's good for your team period. Do people expect a script of what you're going to do vs them each week? Here are the plays we are gonna run in order for ya coach!! People need to get over themselves. Are you not supposed to game plan each week either? Just declare the 10 plays you are going to run all year?? Everyone knows week 1 sucks cuase you kind of have an idea of what the other guys are gonna do but not really. Adapt Adjust Overcome. Not to say we didn't just thrown random jerseys to our guy for scrimmages just to make it a little harder for our week 1 opponent to figure out just who was who.... If you have players wear different jersey numbers in a scrimmage, no worries. But that is wrong in a game without alerting the other team. We have to turn in accurate rosters with names and numbers for opponent access in our state. Maybe that isn't the case nationwide. I coached in Virginia and never even heard of a rule like that. |
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Post by veerman on Nov 3, 2022 9:47:46 GMT -6
As far as scrimmages go we just use our practice jerseys. The ones we had this year didn't have anything but our logo on them. We weren't trying to fool anyone, just what we had. As far as games, on away games we had to have a couple players wear different #'s due to lack of jerseys. It's not a big deal about numbers, You know who their stud is and what he looks like.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Nov 3, 2022 9:52:00 GMT -6
Yeah seems bush league to me. I've had opposing coaches let me know before the game that a starters jersey number changed prior to the game.
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Post by silkyice on Nov 3, 2022 10:27:14 GMT -6
If you have players wear different jersey numbers in a scrimmage, no worries. But that is wrong in a game without alerting the other team. We have to turn in accurate rosters with names and numbers for opponent access in our state. Maybe that isn't the case nationwide. I coached in Virginia and never even heard of a rule like that. Y'all don't have to have official rosters? Not even for eligibility? We have to even include class, height, and weight. |
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Post by fantom on Nov 3, 2022 10:42:33 GMT -6
I coached in Virginia and never even heard of a rule like that. Y'all don't have to have official rosters? Not even for eligibility? We have to even include class, height, and weight. We have eligibility lists. I don't think jersey numbers are included. That said as an assistant I avoid any administrative off-the-field stuff unless my boss assigns me some, which he's never done. So, maybe it includes #s but I don't think that a jersey # requires any official action. |
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Post by silkyice on Nov 3, 2022 11:10:47 GMT -6
Y'all don't have to have official rosters? Not even for eligibility? We have to even include class, height, and weight. We have eligibility lists. I don't think jersey numbers are included. That said as an assistant I avoid any administrative off-the-field stuff unless my boss assigns me some, which he's never done. So, maybe it includes #s but I don't think that a jersey # requires any official action. Any way you could find out? I would actually be shocked if you don't have to have official rosters with numbers. But I could be wrong. |
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 3, 2022 15:14:06 GMT -6
I coached in Illinois for 20 years and never provided an opponent with a roster. I never asked for one either.
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Post by carookie on Nov 3, 2022 15:43:21 GMT -6
In Southern California we only have to provide one (a roster) before the playoffs. This is an interesting difference across states and I wonder the thought process for each.
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mc140
Sophomore Member
Posts: 220
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Post by mc140 on Nov 3, 2022 20:51:21 GMT -6
We had a team in our conference put the jersey of their best player on an injured who looked similar to him. First play of the game a kid with a random number we hadn't seen before scores on a long td. Someone checks twitter in the press box and the reporter at the game had the best players new jersey number for our game. We lost by a td.
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 3, 2022 20:54:15 GMT -6
We had a team in our conference put the jersey of their best player on an injured who looked similar to him. First play of the game a kid with a random number we hadn't seen before scores on a long td. Someone checks twitter in the press box and the reporter at the game had the best players new jersey number for our game. We lost by a td. And you don't think he would have scored if he'd have had his previous jersey on? |
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Post by carookie on Nov 3, 2022 23:21:59 GMT -6
We had a team in our conference put the jersey of their best player on an injured who looked similar to him. First play of the game a kid with a random number we hadn't seen before scores on a long td. Someone checks twitter in the press box and the reporter at the game had the best players new jersey number for our game. We lost by a td. And you don't think he would have scored if he'd have had his previous jersey on? Maybe he wouldve, maybe not. But I know a lot of defensive game planning, alignment, and substitution is based on opponent personnel. Seeing as how jersey number is how we recognize said personnel, at least at the start of the game, I can see it as having an impact. |
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 4, 2022 5:13:28 GMT -6
And you don't think he would have scored if he'd have had his previous jersey on? Maybe he wouldve, maybe not. But I know a lot of defensive game planning, alignment, and substitution is based on opponent personnel. Seeing as how jersey number is how we recognize said personnel, at least at the start of the game, I can see it as having an impact. I guess I just never game planned to stop "number whatever". If their TB was their main threat, we game planned to stop the plays that featured him. If he were suddenly not in the game, their offense is probably built around those plays and most people still try to use those plays with a backup. We rarely mentioned a kid's number when preparing the defense. We certainly never geared them to look for a certain number so much that the same kid in a different jersey could just sneak by us for a TD because he had on a different number. |
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