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Post by CanyonCoach on Sept 27, 2022 6:54:24 GMT -6
We are very fortunate to be having a decent season.
However, 2 teams that have been very successful are struggling: 0 for the season
Team 1- In the last 15 years have been in the semi-finals 7 times, finished 2nd 3 times and won the championship 4 times.
Team 2- In the last 15 years have been semi-finals 2 times, finished second 5 times and been the champs 5 times
The parent groups from those schools are calling for the staffs to resign. The coaching staffs have been very consistent throughout and have run model programs. We have based many aspects of our program on what they have done.
Is this normal and should it be normal...parents are also looking to transfer students/move to get out of those schools.
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Post by bignose on Sept 27, 2022 7:15:47 GMT -6
Someone has to point fingers and the parents sure as hell aren't going to blame their kids......
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Post by raider92 on Sept 27, 2022 7:48:45 GMT -6
It's an ugly business. Theres a coach in my area that is a 30 year veteran, won a couple state titles, great guy, and his "fans" have organized multiple community meetings and inundated school board members to try and get him fired this year after a first round playoff loss last season and 0-3 start to this year. 0-3 against 3 state title contenders I might add.
They run an old school I formation and 4-3 over cover 2 defense. Fans are convinced he's behind the times and holding them back. I hope he walks out and they never win another game. They'd deserve it.
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Post by chi5hi on Sept 27, 2022 8:19:59 GMT -6
Coaches don't throw blocks or make tackles. The players do that. Sometimes they do it well...sometimes not.
Sometimes a group of guys get together and click as a team, and other times they never become a team. The sophomores don't like the juniors...the seniors don't like anybody...the freshmen are going fishing...
I have had an experience (when on the sideline during a close game), I heard some of the players talking about going fishing the next day. IOW, the staff cared more about the contest than the players did.
Then, of course, you have know nothing parents who scream and shout...about all kinds of things they know nothing about.
Coaching football is not a tenured position.
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 27, 2022 9:45:13 GMT -6
IOW, the staff cared more about the contest than the players did. I would say that the vast majority of HS teams in the country are thus, regardless of success level. |
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Post by silkyice on Sept 27, 2022 10:18:32 GMT -6
We are very fortunate to be having a decent season. However, 2 teams that have been very successful are struggling: 0 for the season Team 1- In the last 15 years have been in the semi-finals 7 times, finished 2nd 3 times and won the championship 4 times. Team 2- In the last 15 years have been semi-finals 2 times, finished second 5 times and been the champs 5 times The parent groups from those schools are calling for the staffs to resign. The coaching staffs have been very consistent throughout and have run model programs. We have based many aspects of our program on what they have done. Is this normal and should it be normal...parents are also looking to transfer students/move to get out of those schools. Just checking here: Has it been the same staff at both schools for all of this success the past 15 years? |
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Post by fantom on Sept 27, 2022 10:54:00 GMT -6
We are very fortunate to be having a decent season. However, 2 teams that have been very successful are struggling: 0 for the season Team 1- In the last 15 years have been in the semi-finals 7 times, finished 2nd 3 times and won the championship 4 times. Team 2- In the last 15 years have been semi-finals 2 times, finished second 5 times and been the champs 5 times The parent groups from those schools are calling for the staffs to resign. The coaching staffs have been very consistent throughout and have run model programs. We have based many aspects of our program on what they have done. Is this normal and should it be normal...parents are also looking to transfer students/move to get out of those schools. Every year- every week, really- you make decisions that some people don't like. Some will hold a grudge for a long time. Every year you accumulate more enemies so after a while there will be a lot of them. They can't say much when you're winning but when you hit that inevitable down stretch they have a chance to pounce. If it can happen to Bobby Bowden and Bear Bryant there's no reason to think it can't happen to anybody. |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 27, 2022 11:14:41 GMT -6
Unfortunately, you don't need to be losing for this to happen. In the late 2000s, we blew out a good team in the semis, 49-17 and people were after us in the comment section of the local paper online the next day. The defense gave up too many points, we didn't play our JV until the fourth quarter, we ran the ball too much, we threw it too much, etc..etc..
This has always been the nature of the profession but I see social media making it more frequent and veracious.
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 27, 2022 11:34:40 GMT -6
Unfortunately, you don't need to be losing for this to happen. In the late 2000s, we blew out a good team in the semis, 49-17 and people were after us in the comment section of the local paper online the next day. The defense gave up too many points, we didn't play our JV until the fourth quarter, we ran the ball too much, we threw it too much, etc..etc.. This has always been the nature of the profession but I see social media making it more frequent and veracious. During a region game in 2004, we were up 56-0 on a team and kneed it at their 25 to end the 1st half out. HC got dog cussed by parents at half time. One of which was a school board member. We ended up losing the finals that year, best team in years. HC took a job as a DC the following year. |
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Post by CanyonCoach on Sept 27, 2022 11:53:48 GMT -6
We are very fortunate to be having a decent season. However, 2 teams that have been very successful are struggling: 0 for the season Team 1- In the last 15 years have been in the semi-finals 7 times, finished 2nd 3 times and won the championship 4 times. Team 2- In the last 15 years have been semi-finals 2 times, finished second 5 times and been the champs 5 times The parent groups from those schools are calling for the staffs to resign. The coaching staffs have been very consistent throughout and have run model programs. We have based many aspects of our program on what they have done. Is this normal and should it be normal...parents are also looking to transfer students/move to get out of those schools. Just checking here: Has it been the same staff at both schools for all of this success the past 15 years? The same HC/DC and at least 2 other position coaches at both programs. Same coordinators |
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Post by CanyonCoach on Sept 27, 2022 11:59:27 GMT -6
Irony is that at another coach took over a state championship team and they won 20 games in 15 years. Guy got 15 years and he retired. Not a parent complaint no special meetings.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Sept 27, 2022 12:16:36 GMT -6
We are very fortunate to be having a decent season. However, 2 teams that have been very successful are struggling: 0 for the season Team 1- In the last 15 years have been in the semi-finals 7 times, finished 2nd 3 times and won the championship 4 times. Team 2- In the last 15 years have been semi-finals 2 times, finished second 5 times and been the champs 5 times The parent groups from those schools are calling for the staffs to resign. The coaching staffs have been very consistent throughout and have run model programs. We have based many aspects of our program on what they have done. Is this normal and should it be normal...parents are also looking to transfer students/move to get out of those schools. Every year- every week, really- you make decisions that some people don't like. Some will hold a grudge for a long time. Every year you accumulate more enemies so after a while there will be a lot of them. They can't say much when you're winning but when you hit that inevitable down stretch they have a chance to pounce. If it can happen to Bobby Bowden and Bear Bryant there's no reason to think it can't happen to anybody. So true, I think Bill Walsh said something to the effect of "You lose 10% of your support every year." |
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Post by silkyice on Sept 27, 2022 12:22:44 GMT -6
If some reason Alabama lost 4 games this year including to Auburn, and didn't make the playoffs (obviously) and then lost the first game next year, at least half the fans would think it was time for Saban go.
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Post by blb on Sept 27, 2022 12:29:02 GMT -6
If it can happen to Bobby Bowden and Bear Bryant there's no reason to think it can't happen to anybody. The late, great Bud Wilkinson won 47 straight games at Oklahoma (longest D-1/ FBS record yet). 11 straight Big 8 championships, three AP NCs. Then had the audacity to have a losing season followed by a 5-5 one before finishing with two eight-win seasons. Overall record of 145-29-4 (.826). And Sooner fans wanted him out. His famous quote was about the "Eight-year rule." He said "Bad coaches get fired after four years. "Good coaches get fired after eight years. "Because regardless of how well you've done or how good a guy you are - after awhile they just want somebody else." If it can happen to him it certainly can happen to any HS coach. |
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Post by Defcord on Sept 27, 2022 12:56:10 GMT -6
If some reason Alabama lost 4 games this year including to Auburn, and didn't make the playoffs (obviously) and then lost the first game next year, at least half the fans would think it was time for Saban go. I would wager to say the bigger the college football fan a parent is, the bigger the idiot they are when it comes to running a high school program. The die hards just don't understand the investment. They think them tuning in or showing up guarantees the victory. |
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Post by blb on Sept 27, 2022 13:02:33 GMT -6
Coaching is a terminal profession, meaning most head coaches have to leave it before they necessarily want or are ready to.
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Post by wolverine55 on Sept 27, 2022 13:06:07 GMT -6
This goes back 15 or so years, but I had an opportunity to talk to a very successful small-school IL coach at a clinic. By very successful, I mean at that point in his career probably 5 state titles and even more runner up appearances. Anyway, he had an extremely talented group of freshmen in his program at that time. He told me if he didn't win "at least" two state titles in the next three years, the fans were probably going to run him out of town. Fortunately for him, he did win titles when that group was sophomores and then again when they were seniors, lol!
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Post by Down 'n Out on Sept 28, 2022 3:26:35 GMT -6
This goes back 15 or so years, but I had an opportunity to talk to a very successful small-school IL coach at a clinic. By very successful, I mean at that point in his career probably 5 state titles and even more runner up appearances. Anyway, he had an extremely talented group of freshmen in his program at that time. He told me if he didn't win "at least" two state titles in the next three years, the fans were probably going to run him out of town. Fortunately for him, he did win titles when that group was sophomores and then again when they were seniors, lol! You mean to tell me that with all talent coming back as Juniors, the core of the program back, that he couldn't get the job done?! Should have won 3 in a row! Would have won 3 in a row if the team wasn't held back by the staff |
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Post by coachlit on Sept 28, 2022 5:29:26 GMT -6
When you lose, everything and everyone gets scrutinized.
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Post by blb on Sept 28, 2022 11:08:39 GMT -6
My first year as a HC in 1979 I replaced a coach who was basically forced out (petitions to get him fired etc.)
My fourth game we got blown out by one of the league powers at the time.
My wife told me afterwards she heard some yahoo sitting in front of her in the stands say "I wonder how long THIS guy's contract is?"
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Post by bignose on Sept 28, 2022 11:38:18 GMT -6
Someone has to point fingers and the parents sure as hell aren't going to blame their kids...... How many times have you thought to yourself after dealing with parents about what you are doing with their kids: "Y'know, if you had provided me with better athletic genetic material, we'd be a much better team." Can't say that part out loud....... |
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Post by blb on Sept 28, 2022 12:18:31 GMT -6
Someone has to point fingers and the parents sure as hell aren't going to blame their kids...... How many times have you thought to yourself after dealing with parents about what you are doing with their kids: "Y'know, if you had provided me with better athletic genetic material, we'd be a much better team." Can't say that part out loud....... Yes, there were some seasons where we had had been out-procreated several years before. |
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Post by silkyice on Sept 28, 2022 13:22:13 GMT -6
How many times have you thought to yourself after dealing with parents about what you are doing with their kids: "Y'know, if you had provided me with better athletic genetic material, we'd be a much better team." Can't say that part out loud....... Yes, there were some seasons where we had had been out-procreated several years before. Beat at conception. |
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Post by center on Sept 28, 2022 14:45:43 GMT -6
Irony is that at another coach took over a state championship team and they won 20 games in 15 years. Guy got 15 years and he retired. Not a parent complaint no special meetings. Seriously? |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 28, 2022 15:41:42 GMT -6
If some reason Alabama lost 4 games this year including to Auburn, and didn't make the playoffs (obviously) and then lost the first game next year, at least half the fans would think it was time for Saban go. I would wager to say the bigger the college football fan a parent is, the bigger the idiot they are when it comes to running a high school program. The die hards just don't understand the investment. They think them tuning in or showing up guarantees the victory.
And don't forget the Xs and Os... If we were only running the SCLSU little green notebook playbook, we'd be winning more...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2022 16:36:16 GMT -6
If some reason Alabama lost 4 games this year including to Auburn, and didn't make the playoffs (obviously) and then lost the first game next year, at least half the fans would think it was time for Saban go. I would wager to say the bigger the college football fan a parent is, the bigger the idiot they are when it comes to running a high school program. The die hards just don't understand the investment. They think them tuning in or showing up guarantees the victory. It’s funny when they think we’re no different from college coaches. Yes, Chad, I know Urban Meyer is available, but no, he’s not going to apply for this job when it’s open. I’ve seen a lot of cunning frauds land header jobs by conning those people with BS, and maybe a pic of themselves shaking Saban’s hand, though. |
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 28, 2022 19:27:01 GMT -6
Someone has to point fingers and the parents sure as hell aren't going to blame their kids...... We went on a 27-6 run over a 3 year span, including a 24 game regular season winning streak one time. Graduated 10 starters and the next year lost by 1 in OT week 1 to a team that would end up 8-1 and by 2 week 2 on the road to a team that ended 7-2. After the week 2 game a group of parents approached the principal about getting rid of me as a HC. He reminded them of our successes and their response was "Well, he had a lot of talent". No {censored}, talent helps you win? Who'd a thunk it? |
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Post by kylem56 on Sept 28, 2022 20:00:02 GMT -6
We live in a instant gratification society. Anything someone wants can usually be located or found via a smart phone. With that said, unfortunately, the more success success you have over a consistent period of time, the less patience people have when you have "one of those years". The program I am apart is only the 8th program in our state's history to achieve over 500 wins as a program and our program was started in 1944. We are the smallest school in our conference (a school of just under 350 students in a conference that plays schools with 500-900 students). However we are the lone private school so we are ok with playing public schools with open enrollment. Regardless, my point being that we have had 2 "losing seasons (4-5 records, one of those in 2002, one in 20110 and right now we are sitting at 1-4 with 4 games left, all 4 are winnable. We have the 2nd strongest strength of schedule for our division in our state. Still we have a small but LOUD group that says "time to clean house!" because of our record and quote "you are costing my son a scholarship and NIL deal" or another great quote, yelling to us amongst a group of parents and school personnel " thats it! I am coming down there to give you the beating that our kids are getting" lol. Our kids are likeable group, many of them volunteer to work with my special education students during their study hall hour, and we really don't have any kids that give us a headache because of their character or in school behavior.
To give you some background on our staff; I have the least amount of experience on our varsity staff even though this is my 18th season of varsity football and I have been a varsity head coach before. We have a quality staff full of former head coaches and coordinators with state titles. It has just been one of those years that statistically happens 2 out of every 10 years. This year: between returning starters (3 on each side) and injuries/illnesses, which we we had more shoulder issues or groin/hip flexor issues then I have ever experienced before, we are usually in the top 3 of our conference (7 of our 9 games) and a tough non-conference schedule that almost always has consisted of a state runner up and then another playoff team. I am not sharing these stats to brag, but to support your point that regardless of what a program/staff does, there will always be b@tsh!t crazy people who watch just enough College Game Day and own the DVD set of Friday Night Lights to believe they know what needs to be done to "win states!" every season.
We have run the same offense since 2002 and even though we have two state titles in 8 years, a handful of state runner ups and semi final appearances, and other nice accolades that no one on here really cares to hear because this site is full of coaches who are d@mn good, we still hear it every year. I know this is easier said than done but whenever I think of situations like this, I think of the quote "do not care about the opinions of those that you would not seek advice from to begin with"
Sometimes you just get a group of fans/parents etc. that would rather be entertained than win. The best you can do is build relationships from day 1, focus on the relationship you have built with your student-athletes, and keep doing the right thing by them and your coaching staff. I have coached in Ohio and Michigan. In my experience, Ohio is more football crazy than Michigan although I coach at my alma mater now, at a very successful program in Michigan. People are CLUELESS in regards to how coaching contracts work, and how even successful programs are built. I am not sure on other states, but Michigan is on an extreme teacher shortage, with some districts offering $5000 signing bonuses for teachers in the areas of science and special education. If that teacher can also coach and make a positive impact on young people, most school's admin are not going to let that teacher/coach go because once fall sports are over, that same group of parents are going to b!tch about the basketball or wrestling coach!
To answer your question simply, coaching where I am, and having friends that coach in Ohio and Michigan, sadly it is normal. Its up to the next generation of school administrators to put an end to the BS craziness we read about out there.
Hang in there and wish the best for any staff out there struggling this year, stay the course and continue to make an impact on your community- God Bless
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Post by coachcb on Sept 29, 2022 10:09:55 GMT -6
Here's a good example of social media making this worse:
We had a game on Tuesday night and yesterday morning, I received a text from our AD. The text had a screen shot of a Facebook post thrown up by one of our dads. The post had a link to a concussion signs and symptoms website as well as a lengthy rant about "coaches ignoring concussions". He didn't directly accuse the staff of ignoring a concussion but his intent was certainly clear. There were about a dozen comments on the post, all with the same bullchit.
The AD wanted to know if we'd had any concussion issues, which we didn't. The dad and the kid claimed that we put him in, he came out complaining of a concussion and we tossed him back in. Now, not only do I know he's full of chit, I can prove it because the game was on the NFHS Network. We watched the game and, sure as chit, we tossed him in for his series, pulled him out and he never talked to any of us. Moreover; during his seven plays, he made contact ONCE: he fell down on a pile near out sideline.
This has been pointed out to Dad and the Facebook post has been removed.
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Post by CanyonCoach on Sept 29, 2022 12:07:44 GMT -6
Does anyone know of incidents like the OP where the coaches weren't put on the hot seat...given time to recover.
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